Rene.Girard Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I think we can all agree that the hiring of Allegri gave to Milan a chance to breathe a collective sigh of relief, but with his hiring now comes a myriad of unanswered questions regarding the team, formation and personnel. I don’t want to portray the hiring of Allegri as a negative by any means; in fact I am excited to have a young and innovative tactician at the helm to instill fresh ideas during the rebuilding of the team. My concerns are actually rooted in his system of play and the player’s available to implement the 4-3-1-2. When I first look at the roster of the team the last formation I really think of is the 4-3-1-2. The formation calls for a CAM play maker who can check into the midfield to receive the ball, turn, face play and make the pass or run that the two strikers can thrive off of. At this point outside of Seedorf there is no one who has ever really played in that role, let alone be successful. The CAM also has to have an element of grit in order to be able to stop the opposing DM or CM from having a carte blanche at the midfield line, at this point the dream #10 is Boateng and while I have no doubt in my mind a player can found to fill that void the question becomes who and how much are Fester and Co. willing to play for such a pivotal position? The midfield three in this formation actually operate very similarly to the midfield in Carletto’s XMAS tree so in that sense we have the perfect fit, but then the issue becomes width. We can certainly count on Antonini to be a viable option next season on the right or left, he has earned that much, but the question then becomes where do we find the other back? Allegri didn’t neccesarily call for that type of width at Cagliari, probably because due to lack of personnel, but offenses become exponentially more dangerous when the full backs add numbers to the attack, forcing defenders and midfielders out of position to cover their deep runs. Do we stick with Abate and all his growing pains, or will the Otamendi, Taiwo, or Eboue rumors come true? Until then it leaves another gaping hole in Allegri’s potential formation! Coaches have a tendency to stick to what they know, and while I have no doubts Allegri is banging his head on the wall much like we are, figuring out how he is going to make this work, he may have to adapt with what is available to him or the lack thereof for that matter. We all know Ronaldinho’s failures behind the strikers, and when you have a team with both he and Pato, maybe the 4-3-3 is the way to go! But even that presents major problems as evidenced last season with the formation being exposed for lack of balance in the midfield whenever Seedorf was on the pitch. The team had no problem going forward but defending was a nightmare, if Allegri does choose to stick with the foundation Leo has laid down, then a LM in the form of Galloppa, Asamoah, or Lazzari is an absolute must. While some of you may argue the lack of quality in these players, it needs to be said that function is more important at this point to the balance and deployment of the formation and the well being of the team! We can all salivate as we watch players at the World Cup, but have your rational thinking cap on and understand that there is a budget here and players actually wanting to come to Milan is a thing of the past! As you can see Allegri has his work cut out for him, I am sure an assessment of his personnel has already begun but will he at least get the players he needs to make this work? You could even make a case for a promotion of De Vito and moving Antonini to RB, or playing Verdi/DiGennaro as the #10, but even then the name of the game becomes patience as the team will surely struggle with growing pains. It goes without saying I find little comfort in the fact that our management continues to chase strikers despite the position being relatively FULL on our roster, and continuing to neglect other areas of the pitch that need desperate depth, as well as starters, but at this point it has become the norm, as frustrating as it may be. Again, I am excited for Allegri, he has some tactical guile, and can bring a desperately needed breath of fresh air to Milan’s stale tactics, but I certainly wouldn’t want to be in his shoes at the moment! TIPS Turn this formation onto 4-3-2-1 or 4-2-3-1 Avoid push up and wing play ,your lines will open a lot Use midfielders who are fast and good defensively . Dont be afraid to move players who play as wingers in the position of AMC or Striker .Just think that instead of wasting the energy of the players by putting them in the wings ,move them centrally in a more productive role . Always trust mentally balanced players in the defence .This formation demands good tactical understanding . Watch carefully how the opponent is moving in his own half .If he plays too much possesion football ,you can use more agressive pressing and more direct tempo .Use your players more centrally and focus build up through the middle . Make your players winners by giving them roles according to their style .For example ,never give attacking duties or freedom to players who are not creative enough .They will make the game slower by trying to make things that simply are not made of . Use zonal marking and adjust passing game carefully .Possesion is fruitful only if score goals .Convert your domination into mature football . You can see some schemes here to take an idea how to apply this formation Download the Tactic All the tactics are here Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seule Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I've actually been toying with a 4-3-1-2 in preparation for starting a new game next patch, although not with Milan. It's a flexible, aggressive formation, you only need to look at what Palermo did to Lazio to see that. The half season or so I've played with it, I like it because when I'm playing a larger opponent you can hold the FB's back and create a really solid defensive shape, constricting the midfield of your opposition by the sheer numbers of 3 CM's whilst still protecting the flanks. Alternately when you want to dominate an opposition, the full backs can bomb forward as wingers whilst one of the CM's drops back in front of the DC's as extra cover, effectively working as a narrow diamond. As far as Allegri's issues. I think he's done pretty well thus far, I know Arsenal are having a bad year, but really, they did make it out of the CL groups, and they are sitting top 5 in the premier league so they aren't total crap, and he shredded them, there's no other way to really look at that game. If you look at where Milan have dropped points this year, they haven't beaten Napoli, and the loss to Inter is still shocking given their problems, but other than that it's been drawing when they should be winning. As for the Milan roster, I agree that there are some places where it seems to be thin. I've not been a stoic follower of Milan, so I don't know the ins and outs, but I do remember Emanuelson was meant to be the solution on the left, but I think the jury is still out on him. Behind Antonini and Abate there isn't really a lot at full back and let's face it, Gattuso/Seedorf/Van Bommel/Ambrosini aren't spring chickens. I think there's still a bit too much reliance on Ibra up front, which is funny when you consider the potential in Pato/Robinho etc. I think as far as tactically, the 4-3-1-2 still presents Allegri's best bet, and it's actually a good formation for FM too, you can set it up as a powerful counter tactic, or slow it down and make it a strong possession tactic, or just straight up make it a really tight, high pressure formation that never lets the opposition get out of their own half, I know you said avoid pushing up and wing play, but I've won a cup final against Bayern Munich using Werder Bremen by pushing my D-line up really high, having two midfielders set to defend and bombing them down the wings, so it can work in the right circumstances. I think in the end it's one of the more flexible formations I've ever used. Anyways, that's just my two cents, or maybe five Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich74 Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Forza Milan, at long last a milan tactic well thought out good work Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaycar Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Odd thread really, lots of musings about the real life situation, hardly any tactical theory. Do you have any screenshots of results with this tactic? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Odd thread really, lots of musings about the real life situation, hardly any tactical theory. Do you have any screenshots of results with this tactic? Agreed. While we allow discussions on real life tactics you have to make a connection with FM and implementing it into the match engine. If not the thread can't really stay open as it would belong in the football forum and not here. I know you've added the tactic links at the end of the post and a few tips but it's not really good enough if you want to generate discussion and get people involved in the thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
furiousuk Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Yeah, our old friend Luciano Spalletti with a new account. Nice write up though. Agreed, it'd be good to see how it plays out in FM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene.Girard Posted February 26, 2012 Author Share Posted February 26, 2012 This tactic is delicate .If you push up a lot you manage 2 things in a long term :to exhaust your players and to have several cards .Pushing up means I dont use my mind ,only the physical energy that I posses .We go now to the crucial part of the season .From March till May .Your team is normally tired because of the cards ,injuries ,several games and so on.Are you going to use push up ?The flop will be listened miles away .Milan is protecting every player because as club has perfect organization and very clear directions in terms of tactics . Muntari plays as mc .Boateng as AMC or MC .Nocerino he runs as a right mc .Everything is well prepared and clear .Emanuelson is a very fast player who cannot play as a winger. He is not in a high technical level and he is not reliable defensively in order to play DL .So there is the middle solution .You make him a combo left footed MC .The alternative of Nocerino. I will show you screenshots and results but you need to think a little bit logically .If you push up ,then its a matter of time to sacrify your best players because of cards and injuries. Do you really want something like that ?In the end of the day we cannot make all the teams to play north european physical football ,sorry . See some videos of 4-3-1-2 .They are from my results . [video=youtube;-bMJ96HkwTU] [video=youtube;rtYF6ewruZ4] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_wilko Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 I've just started an AC Milan game, and I've decided to go for a 4-3-1-2 formation. I've not played many games, but having beat Inter (2-0), Napoli (2-0) and Lazio (3-0) in my first three competitive games, it seems a sound formation. I recommend: Standard GK WB - Support on either side. Standard CBs. RCM/LCM as Ball Winning Mid on support. CM as a DLP. CAM as an attacking midfielder. One forward as a complete forward on attack, the other as a poacher. Since I'm AC Milan, that looks like this- ------------------Abbiati Abate-----Nesta----------Thiago Silva-----Taiwo ------Nocerino---Fernandinho---Boateng -----------------Robinho -------------Pato(P)---Ibrahimovic (CF) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene.Girard Posted February 26, 2012 Author Share Posted February 26, 2012 This seems to be a very realistic approach.However fernandinho will have some difficulties to be playmaker di basso.Maybe you need to use boateng or bommel for this role.Fernandinho can help a lot as trequartista.Good luck.Convert this formation into 4-3-2-1.It works great Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooligan Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 hi rene girard, what is your eleven start with lyon? and what kind of players i choose for the 3 MC role? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_wilko Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 For Fernandinho to play as a treq he'd have to replace Robinho who's been great in that CAM position. I'm using Fernandinho in the same way Pirlo used to play for Milan. He receives the ball from the defence and starts the attack off. He's always in space and is the main player to dictate the tempo. While he's not grabbing the headlines himself, he is proving to be a very important player for the team. KPB & Nocerino are also perfect for the BWM roles I'm playing them in so I wouldn't want to move Boateng into the playmaker role. Van Bommell was booted out at the start of the season as he's too old and didn't have the technique for my playmaker role or the stamina for the BWM roles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene.Girard Posted February 26, 2012 Author Share Posted February 26, 2012 See it a little bit different .When Pato or Ibra are not in form you can use Robinho as striker .He scored 40 goals in such a role when he was in Santos .Also Robinho cannot be an extra mc when you need battling midfield .Fernandinho can offer you several options in attack ,so you dont lose quality at all .Ibra is constantly up n down .Pato pretty much the same .So you kkeep in first 11 the most stable and you use boateng in mc role .So when boateng will make playmaking duties ,fernandinho will cover him upfront .Its just an idea .I cannot be absolute. Be a little bit flexible .Serie A is not allowing you stiff and one way approaches .Especially when you reach the end of the season .Did you think maybe that nesta is too slow and every central defender has too many man2man marking in a match no matter what ? Did you think that the player who plays in front the center backs need to be dynamic ?Unless if your dc have speed 15+ I dont want to be like a teacher ,I simply show different ways by presenting different ideas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_wilko Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 I do plan to mix it up, but the style mentioned before will be my main formation/approach as I feel it's the best all round formation. Thanks to having quality back up in the likes of Seedorf, Eriksen, Flamini, Cassano and all the others it allows me to change the style if necessary. Regarding Nesta, he's not the first choice. Thiago Silva is my only guaranteed starting CB, but Nesta will be fighting it out against Mexes and a couple of the younger lads I've signed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene.Girard Posted February 26, 2012 Author Share Posted February 26, 2012 We dont make here an opinion contest and I dont see the why you gave such a competitive tone to your responses .Football needs patience and clear mind . Good luck on you whatever you do .As soon as you have something to show us ,comment .Till then make some experients with simmilar formations which are close to this one . For example 4-2-3-1 is not far away .Ofcourse with narrow amc .Or try to use more creative freedom when its necessary .In football you need to keep a stable mentality . If you keep just a firm formation you easily become complacent and very predictable .Thanks in advance Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimness Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Odd thread really, lots of musings about the real life situation, hardly any tactical theory. http://acmilan.theoffside.com/seria-a/tactics-tuesday-allegris-4-3-1-2.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
furiousuk Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 http://acmilan.theoffside.com/seria-a/tactics-tuesday-allegris-4-3-1-2.html Hmm, new name but still passing off the work of others as his own it seems Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene.Girard Posted February 26, 2012 Author Share Posted February 26, 2012 Then why you dont become internet prosecutors ? Always out of thread comments .Nothing for tactics and so on Stay focused on the formalities Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Then why you dont become internet prosecutors ?Always out of thread comments .Nothing for tactics and so on Stay focused on the formalities All the above isn't your own work it's someone elses? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene.Girard Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 No ,God wrote it on behalf of me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamil-S Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 No ,God wrote it on behalf of me If I remember correctly, God said: VII. You shall not steal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 No ,God wrote it on behalf of me So it's definetly your own work? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooney_08 Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 i seen all these tactics on another forum .whats next ?? the alex ferguson tactic pack ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene.Girard Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 Chill out and be on topic Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimness Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 So it's definetly your own work? Every thread has write up from usually The offside blogs and tactics collected from FM sites. He even mentioned somewhere that he is trying to collect best stuff IIRC. If you check older threads you only need to select one paragraph and hit google, you'll find original source. Same with his Football coaching website. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza56 Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I have just tried this tactic.........no preparation, as it was my next game after downloading it...........and played a friendly against Spurs.......and to be honest i was amazed!!......... Uploaded with ImageShack.us as others have said, it allows the manager alot of scope with player instructions, and was enjoyable to watch............ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooligan Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 hi gazza wich version have you used?normal, attack or defence version? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza56 Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 hi gazza wich version have you used?normal, attack or defence version? I just used the normal mate........other bits to my last post was that i had 3 first team players out injured and 2 players on U21 Internationals.......so little old Aldershot had to play with 5 Youth Team players too, including a 16 year old Keeper!!...........because it was a friendly, i just wanted the cash from a friendly with Spurs, so didnt really worry about who was in my team, but after going 2-0 up, i started to get interested LOL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooligan Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 ok thank's mate, and what teamtalks do you use? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
agentvinz Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 quick question. How do you play when the opposition use a DM to mark your AMC out of the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_wilko Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I'm not using one of the downloadable formations, but I'd recommend just having him set to roam from position/move in to channels. That way, if they're not man marking he'll find space and if they are it'll open up space for others. Also Rene, my response wasn't supposed to sound competitive or aggresive or anything like that, so apologies. Just had another successful match with my 4-3-1-2, demolishing Inter 5-0 when they were the home team. Brace from Pato and one each for Robinho, Eriksen and Boateng. This was another excellent victory, having beaten Ajax 6-0 at home, Genoa 4-0 at home and Dortmund 4-0 away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooligan Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 wich tactic are you using james? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene.Girard Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 See a little bit these results .The creative freedom was on maximum The tactics are mine for a very simple reason .How else you explain all these great results ?I have my own philosophy anyways . I sold in one season half real madrid team .No slow players ...You cannot play otherwise this formation ... This tactic is mine for another simple reason .I watch Milan constantly since 2001 .So its a kind of football that I know it perfectly . Have you ever read the book of Luca Prestigiacomo 4-3-1-2 ?I am a certified football coach and I dont need to steal anybody .Cheers ... Did you see maybe here someone else to have nickname Rene Girard and to post the tactics of Rene Girard ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooligan Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Hi Girard! i'm sorry but i don't understand what type of players are good for Allegri tactic. Wich attributes are important for all roles? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_wilko Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 james_wilko, I'm interested in your 4-3-1-2 using the tactic creator. I have read your player roles in post #8, but would you mind posting your team instructions so I can recreate it and give it a go (or upload the tactic if that's easier)? Also, there are a couple of duties missing - I assume your CM (DLP) is set to defend? What about your AMC? Millsinho & Hooligan, here's a link to the tactics I'm using. For the most part it's generic player instructions but for the BWMs I've had to lower the tackling down to normal or I'd be playing games with 9 men more often than not. http://www.mediafire.com/?2h2dbfc9c9la7ri And a couple of pictures of the formation/tactics. & finally results & stats. The most important thing I've noticed for the team is a high amount of stamina. Fernandinho, despite being great in his DLP role is basically crawling come the end of the match. The BWMs need to be great all round as they'll be involved in pretty much everything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene.Girard Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 Guys .I will give an example ...AC Milan of 2003-7 ...Dida .Nesta Stam right back cafu or oddo ,left jankulovski .MC were gatusso pirlo and seedorf .AMC Kaka or Rui Costa and upfront Shevchenko and Inzaghi ... Its simple .Try to use players who are tactically mature and who are not slow .Technical gifted players always can fit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza56 Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 ok thank's mate, and what teamtalks do you use? Well, because we were playing Spurs with absolutely no chance of winning.........i basically just said that " show me what you can do "..........and at half time because it was only a friendly, i used........." am really pleased, keep it going " i normally wouldnt use that for a league game though, but having said that, it worked so well, i might start lol...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
däkkä Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Wow this thread sure is vague. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene.Girard Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 Team talks are not so neccesary as you think .Say to them always motivational words ...Like keep it going and so on ...You need to give them alwaus courage . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooligan Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 ok thanks to all Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene.Girard Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 You are welcome For more info buy the book of Luca Prestigiacomo "4-3-1-2" . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooligan Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Hi Girard, Lorik Cana is good for the MC role? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene.Girard Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 Lorik Cana ?For which team you are talking about ?Better buy MVila Guaranteed success and huge potential .Cana is very prone to injuries Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babak G Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I've just started an AC Milan game, and I've decided to go for a 4-3-1-2 formation.I've not played many games, but having beat Inter (2-0), Napoli (2-0) and Lazio (3-0) in my first three competitive games, it seems a sound formation. I recommend: Standard GK WB - Support on either side. Standard CBs. RCM/LCM as Ball Winning Mid on support. CM as a DLP. CAM as an attacking midfielder. One forward as a complete forward on attack, the other as a poacher. Since I'm AC Milan, that looks like this- ------------------Abbiati Abate-----Nesta----------Thiago Silva-----Taiwo ------Nocerino---Fernandinho---Boateng -----------------Robinho -------------Pato(P)---Ibrahimovic (CF) What about set piece settings? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_wilko Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 What about set piece settings? Best headers attack near & far post. Big guy stand on the keeper, two men stay back and the rest forward. I have someone hovering outside the box but I don't think it's doing anything to be honest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babak G Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Have you ever tried it with another team? Im thinking of trying it with Granada, so do you think it would work with smaller teams? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_wilko Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I've not tried my formation with any other team. It was the (imo) best set up for the team. Any formation can work for any team, but it depends on the players you have available. I wouldn't recommend something like mine for a very technical but physically poor team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene.Girard Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 I have try this with real ,psg ,lyon ,monaco ,ogc nice and uruguay national team .It worked exceptionally .You need to modify the roles and to teach your players to play in the half pitch. I saw that most of you like to push up .Once again thats wrong !!Especially for this formation ,because you throw away the main advantage that you have : to hit in the counter . However everybody makes his tactics as he wants .I recommend you to use training sessions which include a lot of ball work and are focused on tactics Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dolph11 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 @Gazza, what tactic is that? The one Rene.Girard put in the OP? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza56 Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 @Gazza, what tactic is that? The one Rene.Girard put in the OP? Yes mate...........the normal tactic Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babak G Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 How's peoples progress coming along? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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