el_magico89

really annoyed......

262 posts in this topic

[quote name='mumble jumbo']Whatever. Just because you string a few bad results doesn't necessarily mean you're doing something wrong. I know how this works and it was intended to be realistic or at least try to be realistic, meaning you could end up with a bad result even though you've done everything right

Edit: You can never sway the probability 100% in your favour[/QUOTE]

I dont bother, when I lose a game once, twice or even three times, which I didnt deserve to lose, but it makes me thinking when from 8-9 away games Ive played so far, there were at least 6 games in which I was the better team and in which I couldnt even win one of 6.

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[quote name='wwfan']This sums up your problem. You can't tweak a tactic to perfection. You must react to the dynamic nature of football. If you think you can design a magic tactic that wins all matches against all opposition in all conditions, it will always end in frustration.[/QUOTE]

I dont want to win all 38 league games. I just want to get something for my work.

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[quote name='el_magico89']I dont want to win all 38 league games. I just want to get something for my work.[/QUOTE]

You have. 4th place with Villareal, and 1st in the CL group. That is not shabby. All you have to learn to do is turn around those difficult or unlucky games. You can't do that by micro-tweaking tactics.

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home and away i agree is too big.
i only won the premier league and league cup (dont count community shield) as i was knocked out of the FA cup 2-1.... the opposition had 2 shots on target, that was a week or so after i got knocked out of the champions league in the semis 3-2 on aggrigate because the opposition had 1 shot on target while being outplayed.
i did not do anything wrong, the tactics worked the champions league loss was a long shot, in off the post.
this season played 5 won 5.. played shocking away - won those away games via corners. those games are satisfying to win though.
basically you can control what your strikers which barn door your strikers hit on a particular day, but you can control the attempts they have.

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The only long-term stat I care about in the game is conversion ratio. Mine is as follows:

[B]Goals / Shots: [/B]56 / 331 (1 goal in 5.9 shots)

[B]Goals / Shots on Target:[/B] 56 / 134 (1 goal in 2.4 SOT)

If you are significantly higher than those stats, then you have identified your problem. You need to create a lot of chances before you score. Please have a check to see if this is the issue.

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Hmm, I wonder how is the home advantage presented in the match engine. Could it be just a simple attribute boost/penalty or something much more complex?

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[quote name='tomtuck01']No, he's not.[/QUOTE]

Umm... She is!

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[quote name='Barside']Where the heck do I find that stat breakdown? I've spent that last few years trying to manually calculate my conversion ratio.[/QUOTE]

View Club / Information / Stats

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I need to work on my strikers or stop my defenders from shooting.

We might get 1 in 3 shots are on target but it takes 8.77 shots to score. :(

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[quote name='Barside']I need to work on my strikers or stop my defenders from shooting.

We might get 1 in 3 shots are on target but it takes 8.77 shots to score. :([/QUOTE]

8.77 is about par, so don't take it too hard. Takes a while to have the squad well gelled and disciplined enough to get it low. Even then, you still need the right strategic, tactical and managerial approach.

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Just checked mine. 1 in 2 shots on target but exactly 8 shots needed to score. I guess that's not good :(

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[quote name='wwfan']8.77 is about par, so don't take it too hard. Takes a while to have the squad well gelled and disciplined enough to get it low. Even then, you still need the right strategic, tactical and managerial approach.[/QUOTE]
tbh I'm quite happy where my team is at, if only they could defend throw-ins I'd be happy, damn long throw rebounds & unmarked strikers on the goal line are killing me.

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[quote name='Barside']tbh I'm quite happy where my team is at, if only they could defend throw-ins I'd be happy, damn long throw rebounds & unmarked strikers on the goal line are killing me.[/QUOTE]

Marking from throw ins is bugged, but it affects users and AI alike. Frustrating, but something we have to live with until the next ME I'm afraid.

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[quote name='Barside']tbh I'm quite happy where my team is at, if only they could defend throw-ins I'd be happy, damn long throw rebounds & unmarked strikers on the goal line are killing me.[/QUOTE]

Throw ins are a nightmare, Wwfan, going off topic here, but is there any working being done on marking from throw ins?

EDIT: Just seen your reply to Barside.

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currently on an experiment.
since I am always demanding a victory in home games and was always trying to take pressure of my players in away games, maybe this could be the reason, why theyre so wasteful and sloppy in away games.
this was the first leg of the semi finals, pregame teamtalk: I expect a win (aggressive) and those, who didnt show any positive reaction "I have faith in you" (passionately) as individual talk and at ht, as the result was 1-1 "im not happy with your performance" (aggressive) and the usual individual talks. could have won the game aswell, as I had a lot of injuries. but hey, the very first time, im getting a draw at bernabeu and real played with özil, ronaldo, benzema kaka xabi and all the other guys.
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[quote name='wwfan']Marking from throw ins is bugged, but it affects users and AI alike. Frustrating, but something we have to live with until the next ME I'm afraid.[/QUOTE]I'd just like to ask the person who added the long bullet throw why they didn't think to add defensive counters. ;)

/back on-topic

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[quote name='el_magico89']currently on an experiment.
since I am always demanding a victory in home games and was always trying to take pressure of my players in away games, maybe this could be the reason, why theyre so wasteful and sloppy in away games.
this was the first leg of the semi finals, pregame teamtalk: I expect a win (aggressive) and those, who didnt show any positive reaction "I have faith in you" (passionately) as individual talk and at ht, as the result was 1-1 "im not happy with your performance" (aggressive) and the usual individual talks. could have won the game aswell, as I had a lot of injuries. but hey, the very first time, im getting a draw at bernabeu and real played with özil, ronaldo, benzema kaka xabi and all the other guys.
[/QUOTE]

I'm glad you did well, but you are still trying to find a one shot solution. Team talks are contextual and dependent on many things. While they might have helped in this match, this approach might not always work.

Could you please check you conversion ratio. It is the only meaningful stat in terms of determining how effective your strategic/tactical approach is long-term.

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You have to look at long-term trends in order to know your approach is correct.

I'm struggling defensively a bit this season as I've lost my best defender to Real Madrid (minimum fee clause) and I'm rotating in my talented but green keeper for a lot of games. I'm currently conceding at a rate of 0.76 goals per game (last season I was at 0.68). My best season in FM11 was just under 0.25! However, because my conversion ratio is so good, I now I only need to create 10 chances to pretty much guarantee a 1-1 draw at worst. Any more than 15 and I've almost certainly won.

Because I was expecting a slight drop in defensive performance, I've also been a little more cavalier with my selections up front this season, both in the starting line up and in the roles/duties I expect them to perform. Consequently, I'm averaging over 3 goals a game, compared with circa 2 last season, in which I relied mainly on my defence to see me through games.

This is the type of thing you need to be keeping an eye on to know your strategy / tactic is the right one.

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i have never had trouble with throws, i score a couple from them though.

i would be careful expecting a win at hard away games. it can destroy morale

sepaking of set pieces, i have just set up my corners... only for the game to ignore the corner setup and do the exact same thing, wrong player at near post... swapped... no change, so i tried going far post... still playing near.

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at the moment, with the "I expect a win" (aggressive) + individual talks, its running incredibly awesome :D

against real madrid, my odds were 3.80 and real was 1.60, against sevilla I was underdog with 3.60 and still used the "I expect a win" in aggressive tone, got 4 negative reactions, solved them with individual talk and the result is just amazin.
considering I am playing with my 3rd choice keeper, without senna, cani, nilmar, bruno and a lot of unfit players and doing games every 3 days because of the fixture bug, its just wonderful.
lets see, if my theory is just a for a short period, or whether you can have success with it in long term ;)

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Well isn't this a joyous thread?

Blatantly obvious that this is a tactical issue, so, you know, change your tactics! At the top level (not that I venture up there very often) you can't play the same way every game, teams scout you and work you out. You have to have a plan B and C, as any manager would. And if players are constantly getting a 6 or lower, they're either playing in the wrong role or they aren't being motivated properly so need talking to in private chats, or they might need dropping as a kick up the backside. Either way, it's your actions that will resolve it, not an issue with the game.

Why write on a forum and then ignore the advice people give you?

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Dude, i believe everyone read your posts. Problem IS, hardly any one has the same issues!!! And what does that tells you? Plus the fact (on this thread at least) that you disregard any form of discussion is rather sad and say alot about you.

2 teams come to my mind IRL, who tend to dominate possession and not win games on a weekly basis. Liverpool and Arsenal, mainly cause i am a YNWA fan and watch the games weekly while my mate supports the gunners so i catch their games too. Also i believe to a certain extend England and Holland are guilty parties. lol.

Do you care to explain why does having more possession equals to a sure win match? I do believe that IRL most teams have a better home win ratio then away? Bar a few teams.
Image this, you managing a real team in Germany and you lost 5-6 away matches, what will you do? Your post is pretty one sided, can you explain what step have you done to change things?

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el_magico89, I noticed you're trying to play this game in a way it was played in the older days; create a super-tactic, tweak it almost to perfection and just win every match without ever changing one bit. That's the approach many in the tactics forum are taking, which results in frustration. SI have clearly stated on numerous occasions that one of their primary concerns when working on ME has been to stop those "magic-tactics" from working.

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its the tactics you can have control in a game all you like but you need to put the chances you get away, change formation or try diffrent fowards.

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[quote name='Gee_Simpson']Umm... She is![/QUOTE]
He's a big massive guy, who has just recently got married, has a child on the way, and works as a boxing promoter.

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[quote name='tomtuck01']He's a big massive guy, who has just recently got married, has a child on the way, and works as a boxing promoter.[/QUOTE]

I'm Female ;)

[quote name='shirajzl']el_magico89, I noticed you're trying to play this game in a way it was played in the older days; create a super-tactic, tweak it almost to perfection and just win every match without ever changing one bit. That's the approach many in the tactics forum are taking, which results in frustration. SI have clearly stated on numerous occasions that one of their primary concerns when working on ME has been to stop those "magic-tactics" from working.[/QUOTE]

A lot of people still try playing it like they did CM03/04 but the games moved on since then in the way you was able to play it.

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[quote name='shirajzl']el_magico89, I noticed you're trying to play this game in a way it was played in the older days; create a super-tactic, tweak it almost to perfection and just win every match without ever changing one bit. That's the approach many in the tactics forum are taking, which results in frustration. SI have clearly stated on numerous occasions that one of their primary concerns when working on ME has been to stop those "magic-tactics" from working.[/QUOTE]

Hit the nail on the head. I'd guess most of the users who complain about being cheated etc are trying to create a "one size fits all" tactic and when they can't get frustrated and blame the game.

Mumbo jumbo is clearly a wind up merchant looking for a reaction who, hopefully, when ignored will go away.

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Can we stop with the personal insults please or I'll start handing infractions out. I've deleted some of them.

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People always think that when they lose it's always their fault. It's not always your fault. You cannot sway the probability 100% in your favour. A 70% chance of winning does not mean you will win every single match. And the probability fluctuates depending circumstances - Heck, the reputation of your club can knock the probability back a few notches or two. Your own profile stats (reputation etc) can knock the probability back a few notches or two. Poor tactics can knock the probability back a few notches or two. You could play a game, do everything right and still lose to an inferior team, recalculate and increase probability by putting on a sub or two at good moments during the game but still be practically destined to lose that match

Edit: Or draw the match

And on top of that, you will lose in a bid to keep things realistic

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How many players are unhappy? Any injuries? Every single time these [I]little[/I] instances occur your probability of winning takes a right good whacking

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[quote name='mumble jumbo']And on top of that, you will lose in a bid to keep things realistic[/QUOTE]
Can you stop spouting this utter nonsense?

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[quote name='mumble jumbo']People always think that when they lose it's always their fault. It's not always your fault. You cannot sway the probability 100% in your favour. A 70% chance of winning does not mean you will win every single match. And the probability fluctuates depending circumstances - Heck, the reputation of your club can knock the probability back a few notches or two. Your own profile stats (reputation etc) can knock the probability back a few notches or two. Poor tactics can knock the probability back a few notches or two. You could play a game, do everything right and still lose to an inferior team, recalculate and increase probability by putting on a sub or two at good moments during the game but still be practically destined to lose that match

Edit: Or draw the match

And on top of that, you will lose in a bid to keep things realistic[/QUOTE]

I don't get it, are you saying that a team with higher reputation being complacent shouldn't affect the match? That if you put the wrong tactics/team talks out, it shouldn't matter? In the last sentence of your paragraph, you say "you can do everything right and still lose to an inferior team" but you mentioned right before saying that, that a bad tactic can undermine you. How are you doing everything perfectly, when you're using a poor tactic? So you can do whatever you want prior to the game, use a bad tactic for your team, don't guard against complacency due to a higher rep, don't make adjustments in the match to combat problems and you should still win anyway cause your team is "better?"

Why do you think that? I don't even get what it is you're even saying!

Edit: Just read the post you made right afterwards... so you don't think injuries or poor morale should factor in either in whether you win or lose a match? Why?....

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[quote name='Barside']Can you stop spouting this utter nonsense?[/QUOTE]

Whatever. The ME works in steps, it has the outcome predetermined until you make changes and then a new predetermined outcome is created. So it's mini predetermined outcomes. It's a roll if the dice and if the probability is in your favour that's the more chance of you rolling a six

So what does this mean? Well, you could do everything spot on and still lose, i.e. not land a six

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The trick of the ME is that you can never tell if you've hit a six because the storyline could play out that your opponent goes up 5:0 and then you comeback to win

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I've been reading parts of this with interest. I really don't understand all the analysis or rather how to react, I know my team miss a lot of tackles, but they rarely lose a defensive header or any interception. I usually do use successful tactic for all games because I'm not sure what to change. So help on that would be interested.

Anyway, an easier request. In terms of the shooting and goal stats could anyone kind of tell me are these numbers good or do things need changing.

They are as follows

Goals/shots: 79/465
On target/shots: 192/456

Thanks.

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[quote name='mumble jumbo']Whatever. The ME works in steps, it has the outcome predetermined until you make changes and then a new predetermined outcome is created. So it's mini predetermined outcomes. It's a roll if the dice and if the probability is in your favour that's the more chance of you rolling a six

So what does this mean? Well, you could do everything spot on and still lose, i.e. not land a six[/QUOTE]You clearly have absolutely no idea about how the ME works, you are not being helpful to anyone posting this kind of stuff.

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a few updates:
remember, its still the same tactic and the same team, only change was I am now using the "I expect a win" (aggressively) + usual individual talks for every single game. no matter whether its away to bernabeu or at home against granada.
I still cant believe it, how much this has influenced the results.
just have a look yourselves.
so is there anyone, who still has the opinion, that its my tactics?
to all those, who claimed, my poor tackling percentage is faul, just analyze the screenshots, Ive uploaded. even against granada at home, my tackling ratio was below 60% and granada absolutetly dominated me in this case, but still, its logical, considering I am playing the modern art of closing down, as germany did it in the wc 2010, zonal marking + high closing down + cautious tacklings, so basically trying to close down the possible passing options of the opposition instead of going constantly into tacklings.

but hey, its still me, its still my tactics, everyone here is a little ferguson, but I am the idiot right?

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So basically, you were doing something wrong before. Though it was with your teamtalks and not your tactics?

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the primera division is just absurd...
manu is leading the premier league with 59 points from 27 games, marseille is leading the league 1 with 57 from 26 games, dortmund is leading the bundesliga with 49 from 24 games and juventus the seria a with 54 from 27 games...

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Like I said, when you click to start a game the game builds a storyline.

You could go down 5:0 and go "My God I need to change something" but then you do end up losing because you've altered the storyline of a comeback

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[quote name='tomtuck01']So basically, you were doing something wrong before. Though it was with your teamtalks and not your tactics?[/QUOTE]

well, I was doing something wrong, but just think logically, even when the best ass. manager available in the game, has the opinion to take pressure out of my players, when we face real at home or away and I use the "expect a win", dont you think, that something is wrong with this game? dont you think, that team talks have sooo much influences, that results like above can happen, if you use the right one, or results like in my starting post, if you listen to your ass manager or would go the way, the most players would have told you?

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[quote name='mumble jumbo']Like I said, when you click to start a game the game builds a storyline.

You could go down 5:0 and go "My God I need to change something" but then you do end up losing because you've altered the storyline of a comeback[/QUOTE]

sometimes, Ive exactly the same feelings mate...
one example from an older villarreal save.
Ive won the first leg of the champions league semi finals against barca 2-1
coming away to camp nou, Ive never managed to even get one point from barca.
they are going in front, I am equalizing just before the half time.
then, they score 2 goals in the space of 3 minutes, I get my 2nd away goal in the 92nd minute and 49th second, 90+3 should have been played. normally, this should have been the result. but noooooooooot. kick off for barca, they get a corner, its the 96. minute and iniesta scoring a header from a corner, which ends my dreams of playing champions league finals with villarreal... these are moments, where I just wonder, how this could have happen....

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From a points perspective that table doesn't look too dissimilar to the real life table other than the top 2 swapping places.

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[quote name='el_magico89']well, I was doing something wrong, but just think logically, even when the best ass. manager available in the game, has the opinion to take pressure out of my players, when we face real at home or away and I use the "expect a win", dont you think, that something is wrong with this game? dont you think, that team talks have sooo much influences, that results like above can happen, if you use the right one, or results like in my starting post, if you listen to your ass manager or would go the way, the most players would have told you?[/QUOTE]
The assistant only offers his advice, his opinion. He isn't necessarily correct.

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[quote name='mumble jumbo']Like I said, when you click to start a game the game builds a storyline.

You could go down 5:0 and go "My God I need to change something" but then you do end up losing because you've altered the storyline of a comeback[/QUOTE]


Absolute rubbish.

The ME takes the inputs from both teams (Tactics, teamtalks, media comments, player attributes/fitness/morale etc) and calculates the match from kick off. The ME isn't aware which team is human and which is AI controlled and doesn't care. Many of these inputs can vary during a match depending on what has/is happening on the pitch. The most obvious of these is a goal, this changes a whole range of inputs some players become more determined whilst other give up.

As a manager both yourself and the AI can also change the inputs through changing tactics/formation/subs/halftime team talk etc.

Comebacks can and do happen but they are never part of a storyline.

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