sperlz

2013 Primary Focus - Match Engine

175 posts in this topic

What is this?

In most simplified form it's movement of players as a unit in strict and compact formation. I think it was initially used in combination with 4-4-2 and 4-5-1. Basically players would move in two dense and closely positioned flat rows (defense + midfield) denying opposition any space in final third. Depending on specific qualities of opposition's defense attacker/attackers would stand off forming third row or press defenders heavily forcing rushed long balls. Occasionally such defensive system can be seen still today at high level football, although T. Ivic combined it with dynamic repositioning already in the early 70s to create a very effective hybrid. Team kept same basic outlook but rows would contract horizontally (nonlinear: x-x--x---x) according to ball position.

It is quit interesting though that game actually can not simulate teams loosing shape (formation disintegration) toward half time and/or full time as a result of exhaustion or lack of discipline. So (the same) defensive mechanism in ME is not intelligent and disciplined enough in higher leagues and too organized and robotic in lower leagues.

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a few thoughts for the thread:

graphics

--------

direct passing responsiveness

zonal marking traps

fluidity in swaping positions

AI

--

possession

counter attacking

ME

--

shouts for players roles

OIs level of commitment

tactics time progressive commitment

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I think I've had enough of the game lol. The defending can't even be explained. It's actually leaving me angry lol. What a load of rubbish. I'm just finding it boring! My problem is, I want to enjoy so can't stop playing. Damn you FM and SI lol!

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Re differences between the Match engine and the 3D highlights.

Here's a question I asked two years ago but no one could answer as the devs are responding to this thread I thought id ask again.

Reading the ME change list makes it sound as if the ME plays a whole match plotting the co-ordinates of all the players and the ball.

But when we watch a 3D match we sometimes see some odd behaviour which is defended on these boards as poor interpretation of the ME by the 3D highlights.

So my question is does the match engine plot the exact coordinates of all twenty two players and the ball at all times or does it work on a more abstract level?

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I believe it does plot the movements of all players on the pitch at all times (not sure about officials i.e poor position = greater risk of poor decision) but I have a hunch that there are two layers to the ME, one calculates everything that happens within the a set radius of the ball with the other more basic layer handling generic player positioning.

Not sure if I'm even close but based on how players react to unexpected clearances, do not assist another player 15 yards away or indeed any number of instances of odd off the ball behaviour it seems like a reasonable guess.

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Totally agree. And also I don't buy this 'there are separate teams' thing that is repeated over and over. You have a budget, use more to work on the ME and less to work on the graphics.

Another complete overhaul is the tactical interface: one needs to have a degree in linguistics to understand exactly what they are ordering.

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You can not buy the separate teams thing as much as you like - that's just how it is.

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Another complete overhaul is the tactical interface: one needs to have a degree in linguistics to understand exactly what they are ordering.

Actually user manual written according to internal specification would do just fine.

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A hard copy user manual supplied with the game would be nice but that's just me showing my age.

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I think I've had enough of the game lol. The defending can't even be explained.

I can explain it but most of the words would be blocked on this forum. It's an absolute joke.

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Just to see what it is like I decided to watch a game in real-time, I normally watch the full match on max-2 speed.

To get close to real-time I had to notch it down to max-8 & boy did it show how far the match engine/3d representation sync needs to go before it can even be considered remotely realistic.

I recommend people try it out, the experience is painful & horribly one-paced.

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I agree Barside, but, a lot on here like watching the whole game at first to find the perfect tactic for the team. I just don;t know how they can, honestly, I coach footy at a decent level, when I work with youngsters I would go mad if they defended like they do in this game. It's tragic!

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You can not buy the separate teams thing as much as you like - that's just how it is.

maybe then they should hire new programers to help the current ones with the ME. the graphics can be done by 2,3 people, but a ME is very complex and they need many more people working on it.

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Another problem with defense in ME is lack of interconnection/communication between players in the defense line. This is obvious when you drop one striker from two men offense line in to attacking midfielder position (both need to be positioned of center, one to the left other to the right like this , ´). Such layout throws almost every AI formation out off balance, as one of the DCs always steps forward towards the AMC and inverts the defense shape in the process (from ,,,, to ,,´, or from ´,,´ to ´´,´). This action opens huge gap which SC easily exploits time and again (for maximum effect place SC left or right according to his preferred foot). Setting AMC as playmaker will further enhance the effectiveness of this system. Although similar defensive misbehavior can be seen occasionally in top level football (Croatian national team managed by ex defender S. Bilic is ironically prime example) in FM it happens far to often. Defense line just doesn't feel/act as a unit in FM.

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I drop strikers off the line a few times a season to great effect. Now you've made me feel dirty about it. :(

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I drop strikers off the line a few times a season to great effect. Now you've made me feel dirty about it. :(

You should seem my brother's list of forbidden formations, corner and free kick tactics, instructions, transfer targets... After he proclaimed buying players as an unfair advantage over AI last year, he has moved one step further this year by marking most teams as too good (and we are not talking about top teams here, he is marking basically any fast/physically good team as too good)! At times it looks like he is going to proclaim even looking at screen as an exploit.

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Here is the situation.

Yes, elements of the Match Engine are due an overhaul. We have started on this behind the scenes and things will be ready when they are ready. We feel the ME that you have in 12.1 is pretty balanced and stable which that buys us time to work on something better for a future release while you have something enjoyable to play in the meantime. We won't be rushed on this, as its too important to the future of FM.

Its also worthwhile separating the ME AI and the graphical side ie 3D. Think of them as separate entities that work together. Its entirely possible that one might have improvements in a future release before the other. For example in 12 we improved the visual side but left the ME 99% alone.

The most important thing is that we are always working to improve both areas, and the excellent feedback from threads like this is very much welcome :)

Does that mean you haven't made many changes to the ME in the upcoming patch? I would prefer if you haven't actually as then new tactics have to be created/tweaked to have success and that's frustrating tbh.

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Does that mean you haven't made many changes to the ME in the upcoming patch? I would prefer if you haven't actually as then new tactics have to be created/tweaked to have success and that's frustrating tbh.

Provided tactics are sensible and don't depend on dubious 'precision' settings, they really shouldn't need to be tweaked from patch to patch.

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Provided tactics are sensible and don't depend on dubious 'precision' settings, they really shouldn't need to be tweaked from patch to patch.

You sure about that?

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Nobody has mentioned the newgens yet so I guess they must be close to getting that right? Still on FM 11 and all these guys with one foot are killing me.

Bring on some more fluid tactics and smarter AI :)

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Nobody has mentioned the newgens yet so I guess they must be close to getting that right? Still on FM 11 and all these guys with one foot are killing me.

Bring on some more fluid tactics and smarter AI :)

There is a bug that afflict some of their hidden attributes if i remember rightly ( its been noted and will hopefully be fixed in the next patch) but overall, newgens are much better

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If anyone watched Bayer - Barcelona (1-3) yesterday during the first 30 min of the match Bayer adhered to the brick tactic (principles) in its classic mid 70s form. Note that one player steppes out of flat five midfield to put Barcelona player with ball under pressure. When the ball is passed to another Barcelona player he immediately retreats to the line, and another player steppes out to put the player with the ball under pressure. In my opinion this kind of team defending (primarily preoccupied with space) is missing from the current FM tactics and ME.

Another linked issue is inability to instruct FBs/MCs/WMs/Ws to run forward (attack) one at the time. This would greatly improve defensive performance. We can currently only instruct one particular player (for example FBL) to stay back at all times and other particular player (FBR) to always make a forward run.

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As much as the ME needs work, I would also love for expanding some features in other areas as well.

For all it's flaws, (and I still like FM a lot more), I recently played FIFA Manager 2012 for the first time and I found a lot of features I think SI should adopt and could probably do better with.

Realistic things that occur in real life like building up youth camps around the world, handling/dealing with sponsors, more focus on the "fan", marketing. Setting up training camps, and even some RPG elements that make your Manager feel like a real person (and for your salary to finally have a purpose! I think most of us negotiate it LOWER at this point just to save on the payroll)

All those things are a vital part of a team and I would love to see FM put it's fingerprint on several new areas that a manager of a team would realistically be a part of.

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