Dave.

AI Experiment - 'Ez gara Espainiar, Eusko ari gara!' 'Sí, i estem català!

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100px-Basque_Football_Association_logo.pngCatalonia_national_football_team_crest.svg

AI Experiment - 'Ez gara Espainiar, Eusko ari gara!' 'Sí, i estem català!' ('We aren't Spanish, we're Basque!' 'Yeah, and we're Catalan!')

You may, or (more likely) may not remember, but I carried out an experiment with the Basque nation a few years back, and then reproduced it with FM11. Unfortunately other commitments meant I could not venture more than a few years into the game, but this time around I hope to go further, and produce some interesting and potentially exciting results, with the Catalan side added for extra intrigue.

What Have I Done?

The nation of Pays Basque has been made playable, with a reputation of 7000, and a starting FIFA points tally of 0. It will be up to the AI to control the side, and take them forward as one of the European footballing superpowers. With non-capped Basque/Spanish superstars such as Manuel Almunia and Francisco Javier Yeste, immediate success of the nation is down to the quality of coaching. Youngsters coming up from the big Basque clubs, notably Osasuna, Alaves, Real Sociedad and Athletic Bilbao will surely begin to challenge for first team spots soon enough. These and the smaller Basque sides playing in Spain's top three tiers will be followed, as Basque football fans pray for success.

In addition to the Spanish-Basque clubs, Franco-Basque side Aviron Bayonnais, notable for producing arguably the best footballer the North of Basque Country has ever seen, Didier Deschamps, will also be followed, along with fellow Franco-Basque Side Genêts Anglet. They will, along with the 45 Spanish-Basque clubs in the game, take part in a new competition, Copa del Euskal Herria, the Basque Cup. Will Osasuna, Athletic and La Real dominate, or will smaller clubs fight their way into contention?

The nation of Catalonia has also been made playable, having broken away from Spain in a move which has been sought after for a long time. They, just like the Basque, have been given a reputation of 7000 and a starting FIFA points tally of 0. A 48-team Catalan Cup has also been created to test the teams of the new nation against one another. Will the minnows be able to keep up with giants Espanyol and FC Barcelona?

What's Up First For Pays Basque and Catalonia?

A friendly match, to be played at Catalonia's Camp Nou, serving as the national stadium just like the Basque's San Mames, Bilbao. This will be a chance for several Basque and Catalan footballers to show their big brother Spain why they should have been called up for La Furia Roja. I'll keep you updated with this, and everything else Basque and Catalan that happens in the footballing world. This will include focussing on the club sides as they perform in Spain and the national cups (and France), the top players and staff, and of course, the nations themselves, as they strive to make names for themselves, and potentially even win an international title of their own. Spain have beaten them both to the world title, but can they be eclipsed by their smaller neighbours?

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i have been thinking of making Catalan available as well just to see how far Spain fall after the big guys have retired just to see what happens

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I'll be following this, sounds like a good idea. Great first post as well, looking forward to the rest.

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Sounds like a great idea, never seen anybody make a separate catalan nation to see how it fares. Nobodys gonna be able to keep up with Barca for the first few seasons in the Catalan league though lets be honest!! Which other teams make up the rest of the catalan league? I can only think of Nastic, Palamos, Hospitalet and Girona after the big boys. Just a small thing incase you want to change it, in the title it should be "som catalans" instead of "estem catala". Anyway really looking forward to following this.

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Plenty of problems in testing for myself to enjoy! Firstly, Catalan names are all over the shop language wise, so I had to ensure every Catalan city/town was changed from Spanish to Catalan, and all languages were right. This error was fixed, but now FM decided that it wanted to pretend no teams were being entered to either the Basque nor Catalan cups.. It took me ages to recover just the Catalonia side of things, and it seems like I may have to 'cheat' and link the Basque cup to Catalonia. Should make NO difference whatsoever to the game itself, just an aesthetic defect really. I'll report back once this is up and running and tested, hopefully it will work!

Sounds like a great idea, never seen anybody make a separate catalan nation to see how it fares. Nobodys gonna be able to keep up with Barca for the first few seasons in the Catalan league though lets be honest!! Which other teams make up the rest of the catalan league? I can only think of Nastic, Palamos, Hospitalet and Girona after the big boys. Just a small thing incase you want to change it, in the title it should be "som catalans" instead of "estem catala". Anyway really looking forward to following this.

I wouldn't have thought so! But then, last year when I did it with just the Basque, it took only three season or so for Barakaldo to win it (third tier side as opposed to top flight Osasuna, Athletic and Real Sociedad). And you're basically there with the big Catalan sides, but you've got the likes of Sabadell (LIGA adelante), and Reus, Sant Andreu, Llagostera, Lleida and Badalona (all Segunda B3).

And thanks for the tip, I'm sure your Catalan is a lot better than my hastily translated version! Unfortunately I can no longer edit the title so I'd have to speak to a mod.

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Well, finally got some sort of a working save, which seems to be ticking all the required boxes. And the first match between the two breakaway Spanish nations has taken place. As can be seen, despite having much the better of the game, Pays Basque lost out at home to Catalonia, thanks to a supreme man-of-the-match performance from Wigan man Jordi Gómez.

MeetingOne-682011.png

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sorry dave if i jumped the gun and you already had Catalan in the mix with your AI Experiment i just can remember following last years and it only being Basque

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Great experiment!

I followed the one on FM11 and I liked so much!

Just one thing, the 'Sí, i estem català!' is incorrect as it should be 'Si, i som catalans!'. ;)

KGTW!

Edit: ooops! Sorry now I saw that crewe_york already told you about the title.

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Great to see thisi back again, I really enjoyed the one last year. Hopefully this should be just as good :D

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Encountered a really odd error where, on the 6th of March, the game just STOPS running. It doesn't crash, nor send any dump warnings, but just stops advancing forward and renders me incapable of ending my holiday or clicking 'Browse' if I'm advancing the game normally. Very weird. Working on identifying and resolving this problem now.

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Reloaded and holidayed again, stopped running again on the 6th of March. So definitely a DB problem. Any ideas?

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have a look on editor and see if everything is in working order umm how do you put two seperate databases together and make them work i have two that should work but it says i have one to many in my catalan league and one short in la liga

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Good to see you running this again Dave., it was one of the more interesting experiments of last year. Hope you manage to iron out all the wrinkles without too much effort.

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Very interesting setup, will definitely be following :)

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Really an exciting experiment. Hope it will be back up and running soon.

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I can only apologise for the delay. But with the release of the new patch, I'm currently testing the DB once more and making any changes. Here's hoping we can reach March 7th this time!

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I can only apologise for the delay. But with the release of the new patch, I'm currently testing the DB once more and making any changes. Here's hoping we can reach March 7th this time!

Good luck! I loved this experiment last year!

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The testing was a success, we're underway at last!

At San Mamés, the first match between the two sides (at least, since their affiliations with FIFA and UEFA) was a little less exciting than when previously played out. This time around it was much more even, with the only goal of the match coming from a late Kike Sola strike for the Basque. A cracking result for them against their bigger and arguably more glamorous rivals, and one which they hope is a signal of greater things to come.

MeetingOne-682011-1.png

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Cheers for the support guys!

What to expect in the end of season update:

- A summary of the league performances of the (currently) 12 Spanish-Catalan teams, the 13 Spanish-Basque teams and the 2 Franco-Basque teams.

- A round up of the two national cup competitions, the Copa del Euskal Herria and the Copa de la Catalá

- A report on the adventures of the national teams over the course of the season

- 'Top tens' for players of both nations, including best national team players, best players of the nationality and best youngsters

And of course anything that you may request!

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This looks like a fantastic experiment! There isn't many experiments as such, so it's always good to see someone do an experiment :) As I said in the Bandits thread, I was never really around this side of the forum in the past few years since I joined up, so this is all new, but i'm glad i've got here for the start of the experiment, should be a fantastic read!

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Ahh, I wondered if I was going to run into problems. There are two:

Firstly, Catalonia do not enter qualifying for either the 2014 WC or 2016 EC, and presumably this problem continues. I think this is down to adding them as a new country (and for some reason this means replacing Yugoslavia). If I replace Andorra or San Marino instead, this shouldn't be an issue. There are no problems with the Basque Country.

The second issue is a little more confusing; the Spanish-Basque sides do not seem to produce any Basque youth players - at all. This doesn't happen in games where the nation is not made playable (they still have their second nationality). I'm slightly unsure how to resolve this, but will be looking into it.

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Ahh, I wondered if I was going to run into problems. There are two:

Firstly, Catalonia do not enter qualifying for either the 2014 WC or 2016 EC, and presumably this problem continues. I think this is down to adding them as a new country (and for some reason this means replacing Yugoslavia). If I replace Andorra or San Marino instead, this shouldn't be an issue. There are no problems with the Basque Country.

The second issue is a little more confusing; the Spanish-Basque sides do not seem to produce any Basque youth players - at all. This doesn't happen in games where the nation is not made playable (they still have their second nationality). I'm slightly unsure how to resolve this, but will be looking into it.

I think you need to make sure the Basque Country has a local region in it and you need to put all the Spanish Basque cities in that particular local region

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I think you need to make sure the Basque Country has a local region in it and you need to put all the Spanish Basque cities in that particular local region

I was pretty sure you may have solved it for a second but it turns out I had already done that; Navarra and País Vasco are both Basque local regions with all cities in them Basque cities. Something else somewhere is causing this problem..

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Oddly (and not fully sure why, guess it's just hardcoded into the game) your idea was actually the opposite of what I needed to do! The game already produces youngsters from Basque clubs with a second Basque nationality, and I assume that changing the cities from Spanish ones just confused it. Doing the same with Catalan clubs though didn't work; the youth players had dual nationalities but were only eligible to play for Spain.

This means that, in terms of the fictional politics and geography of the game, Catalonia is a fully autonomous country bordering Spain, France and the Mediterranean, where young footballers are eligible only for their national team. Pays Basque however, is a semi-autonomous community within Spain (as per real life) but with a FIFA-affliated football team. Youngsters will have the choice to play for Spain if they so choose.

Yes, this means that fairness is impacted; Catalonia, with a population three times the size of the Basque and no threat of Spain poaching their best youngsters will have the best chance of becoming a European and World footballing power. But since when was football ever completely fair? It will be interesting to see how the underdogs from the Basque country will fare against their two bigger and more illustrious rivals. And hey, it'll only go to make any success they achieve that much sweeter.

Editing the DB a little more now to replace Andorra with Catalonia, and getting rid of the current Yugoslavia/Catalonia country. Hopefully then we can get some positive tests and this show on the road. Third time lucky!

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It's great to hear that you've figured some stuff out! Looking forward to the first update :D

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Looking good hopefully wuoh will be able to get it sorted

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At least these issues were discovered fairly early on in the experiment, hopefully everything is sorted now. I'm looking forward to this as I enjoyed your last one immensely :)

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Cheers for the support guys!

I think, finally, I may have ironed out all the errors, so we can get cracking.

The friendly match between the two sides was for the second time won by Pays Basque, with Kike Sola grabbing the winner around 15 minutes from time. But this time, it was to decide an absolute thriller. Catalonia dominated the first half, but the Basque's dressing room at half time must have been an inspired place. Toquero grabbed two as his side battled from two goals down to win the game in the second half. If this is a sign of things to come, we could be in for a sensational rivalry.

MeetingOne-682011-2.png

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SEASON 2011/12

100px-Basque_Football_Association_logo.png

BASQUE CLUBS

We'll start with the top then shall we? In the Spanish LIGA BBVA, the Basque sides' performances were a little underwhelming to say the least. Athletic Club were disappointing; predicted 8th and competing in Europe, they could only manage 12th. Most of the Basque's stars play for Athletic, and with their policy of only fielding local born players, the club are no doubt imperative to the national side's future. Just like Barcelona in Catalonia, the side is the symbol of Basque football. Real Sociedad may have finished just below Athletic in 13th but were a full six points behind their rivals. They were predicted to have a real fight to stay up, so this season will surely have Sociedad fans quietly pleased. Things were not so comfortable though for Osasuna, who's disastrous 1 point from their last six games saw them finish in the bottom three, in 18th. They've been a constant presence in La Liga over the last century though, and will surely fancy themselves as favourites to return there next season.

There were no Basque clubs in the second flight this season, so we drop two divisions to the Segunda B2, where we find a massive ten Basque sides. These ten sides all finished in the top thirteen places, all comfortably clear of relegation. However, none of them finished second, or even first; only 7th place Gimnástica preventing them from finishing in consecutive positions. The final placings of each team, fairly inconsequential after the top four in the division, were as follows: Logroñés (3rd), Alavés (4th), Osasuna "B (5th), Lemona (6th), Real Unión (8th), Amorebieta (9th), Eibar (10th), Real Sociedad "B" (11th), Bilbao Athletic (12th) and Sestao (13th). The top two, Alavés and Logroñés therefore qualified for the playoffs, a 16-team tournament where four sides are promoted. They have both had plenty of experience of La Liga in the last two or three decades, and both are eager to return there. Unfortunately, both sides were knocked out at the first hurdle in close games, losing 4-2 and 4-3 on aggregate respectively.

It isn't just Spain where the Basque country have a footballing presence. In the north, two Basque sides compete in the French league system. Aviron Bayonnais are a side who live in the shadow of the rugby league team of the same name, and who's most famous son is World Cup winner Didier Deschamps. They play in the National, the French third division. They were predicted to finish in safe mid-table, in 12th, but performed slightly better than that to end in 9th. Genêts Anglet are a league below, in the French amateur division, the CFA-C, and won't be leaving it any time soon. They also finished 12th, but were a long way from promotion. Seven points clear of relegation, they were not particularly troubled by it, but the indication is there that they'll more likely be competing at that end of the table in the seasons to come.

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SEASON 2011/12

Catalonia_national_football_team_crest.svg

CATALAN CLUBS

Again, we begin with the Spanish LIGA BBVA, where we have two Catalan teams. One of them was Espanyol, who finished mid-table as expected. The other was of course Spanish/Catalan giants, Barcelona, the favourites for the titles in both Spain and Europe. They shockingly lost out to eventual finalists Lyon in the latter, but the league was won with a gap over over 20 points from second placed Real Madrid. Ominous signs for the rest of Spain, as the Catalan supremos really showed their strengths.

There were a further four Catalan sides in the LIGA adelante. Girona were the best of a disappointing bunch; finishing in 11th place clear of anything exciting. Two places below them in 13th were Barcelona "B", and Gimnástic finished 18th; only just clear of relegation. Less lucky though were Sabadell, whose poor season ended in disappointment as they finished seven points from safety.

Six Catalan sides competed in the Segunda B3, and just like their Basque neighbours, all of them will be played there again next year. Hospitalet came closest to promotion, finishing 3rd, and then beating Basques Logroñés 4-3 in the first playoff round. However, they came unstuck against eventually promoted Badajoz in the next round. Badalona just missed out on the playoffs after a solid campaign, finishing one point behind in 5th with a solid goal difference. The remaining Catalan sides in the division were Sant Andreu (7th), Lleida Esportiu (11th), Llagostera (12th) and Reus (15th).

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SEASON 2011/12

100px-Basque_Football_Association_logo.png

COPA DEL EUSKAL HERRIA

First Round

2012CopaB1.png

The first round of this competition, open to all Basque clubs, sees the 48 competitors all play a two legged match with the reward a place in the group stages. Only one real shock took place this round, with non-league Laudio knocking out their Segunda B opponents Real Sociedad "B". Two other league clubs suffered an early exit too; Real Unión and Eibar, both at the hands of follow league opposition.

Group Stage

2012CopaBGA.png

A potentially tricky group with three Segunda B sides fighting for two places in the quarter final. Only one made it, Sestao, with non-league Barakaldo springing a real surprise to win the group.

2012CopaBGB.png

Group B was more clear cut; there were two obvious favourites, and both made it through. Aviron Bayonnais led Real Sociedad to qualification.

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2012CopaBGC.png

Again, Group C saw two clear favourites, and they both qualified. Comfortable would have been an understatement as Osasuna and Athletic coasted to qualification.

2012CopaBGD.png

Group D was missing any big guns, but had five very solid teams in it, all with a decent chance of qualifying. Logroñés and Lemona ended the stage with a nice cushion.

Quarter Finals

2012CopaBQ.png

The three big guns of the Basque country won their ties easily, all by three goals. In the tightest of the ties, Lemona just about edged it to reach a lucrative and well earned semi final.

Semi Finals

2012CopaBS.png

There were three teams from La Liga in the semis, but there will only be two next season. These two were the two who made it into the final - expected to be a tight affair.

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Final

2012CopaBF.png

It's not been the best of seasons for Athletic, considering. They lost out here to a Real Sociedad team who had arguably exceed expectations, and become the winners of the inaugural Basque Cup.

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SEASON 2011/12

Catalonia_national_football_team_crest.svg

COPA DE LA CATALA

First Round

2012CopaC1.png

Just like the Basque competition, the first round of this competition, open to all Catalan clubs, sees the 48 competitors all play a two legged match with the reward a place in the group stages. No shocks occurred this round, with Reus the biggest casualty as they went out to Hospitalet.

Group Stage

2012CopaCGA.png

The two giants of the Catalan game were both drawn in the same group, and qualified easily. Barcelona particularly showed that, even with a weakened team, they were a force to be reckoned with.

2012CopaCGB.png

Girona were the only league club drawn in Group B, giving them a clear run to the quarter finals. It also gave an opportunity for a smaller club to celebrate something massive, and the chance was taken by minnows Pobla de Mafumet after an impressive campaign.

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KUTGW Great thread Dave!

Sorry if i took a post spot you were hoping for, i can delete this if you want.

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2012CopaCGC.png

It was a really close affair in Group C. Gimnástic took the glory, but the other three league clubs finished in the bottom three places. Cornellá ensured that the quarter finals would boast two non-league teams.

2012CopaCGD.png

Group D was a three horse race, and couldn't have been any closer. Hospitalet just about missed out as Sabadell and Lleida Esportiu made it into the last eight.

Quarter Finals

2012CopaCQ.png

Three of the ties went as expected (only just in Girona's case) but the undoubted shock of the round, and indeed tournament, saw Gimnástic edge out favourites Barcelona. A real surprise, that, and it leaves Espanyol as clear favourites for the cup.

Semi Finals

2012CopaCS.png

Espanyol indeed qualified for the final, but if they needed any extra hint that the team that knocked out Barcelona would be a threat to them there, Gimnástic's 6-0 win over Girona provided it.

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Final

2012CopaCF.png

It wasn't to be however for brave Gimnástic, who lost out in a shootout where only one penalty wasn't scored. It's cruel, but that's football.

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KUTGW Great thread Dave!

Sorry if i took a post spot you were hoping for, i can delete this if you want.

Thanks! That's alright mate, don't worry about it :p

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SEASON 2011/12

100px-Basque_Football_Association_logo.png

TOP 10 BASQUE PLAYERS BY CA

POS   NAME              AGE  REGISTERED NATION   DECLARED  CLUB		CA   PA   Change  
1     Xabi Alonso	30   Spain		 Yes       R. Madrid   	174  186   new
2     Mikel Arteta	30   Spain		 Yes	   Arsenal	172  172   new
3     Fernando Llorente	27   Spain		 Yes	   Athletic	161  168   new
4     Javi Martínez     23   Spain               Yes       Athletic     161  165   new
5     Ander Herrera     22   Spain               Yes       Athletic	156  164   new
6     Iker Muniain	19   Spain		 No        Athletic	155  165   new
7     Stéphane Ruffier  25   France              Yes       St-Etienne	154  160   new
8     Gorka Iraizoz	31   Pays Basque	 Yes       Athletic	152  152   new
9     Andoni Iraola     30   Spain               Yes       Athletic     149  155   new
10    César Azpilicueta 22   Spain		 Yes       Marseille	148  165   new

TOP 10 BASQUE INTERNATIONAL PLAYERS BY CA

POS   NAME              AGE  POSITION   CAPS   GOALS   CLUB	    CA   PA   Change   
1     Gorka Iraizoz     31   GK		5      0       Athletic	    152  152   new
2     Xabi Prieto	28   AMR	3      0       R. Sociedad  147  151   new
3     Borja Ekiza       24   DC		5      0       Athletic     146  156   new
4     Raúl Garcia       25   DM, AMC    5      2       Osasuna      141  149   new
5     Markel Susaeta    24   AMRLC	2      0       Athletic     141  145   new
6     Beñat		25   DM		6      1       R. Betis	    139  148   new 
7     Mikel González    26   DC         6      0       R. Sociedad  138  143   new
8     Manuel Almunia    35   GK         1      0       Arsenal      137  147   new
9     Imanol Agirretxe  25   ST         3      1       R. Sociedad  137  145   new
10    Ander Iturraspe   23   MC         4      1       Athletic     135  144   new

TOP 10 BASQUE YOUNG PLAYERS BY PA

POS   NAME                AGE  REGISTERED NATION   DECLARED  CLUB	  CA   PA   Development
1     Ander Bengoetxea    16   Spain               No        R. Sociedad  97   188  new
2     Iker Lasarte        16   Spain		   No	     Osasuna      109  177  new
3     Mikel Franco        16   Spain               No        Osasuna      107  169  new
4     Antoine Griezmann   21   France              No        R. Sociedad  147  166  new
5     Iker Muniain        19   Spain               No        Athletic     155  165  new
6     Iñigo Martínez      21   Spain		   No	     R. Sociedad  146  165  new
7     Juan Etxaniz        16   Spain               No        Athletic     82   158  new
8     Jonás Ramalho       19   Spain               No        Athletic     138  155  new
9     Iker Hernández      18   Spain               No        R. Sociedad  94   150  new
10    Rubén Pardo         19   Spain               No        R. Sociedad  110  150  new

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SEASON 2011/12

Catalonia_national_football_team_crest.svg

TOP 10 CATALAN PLAYERS BY CA

POS   NAME              AGE  REGISTERED NATION   DECLARED  CLUB		CA   PA   Change  
1     Xavi		32   Spain		 Yes       Barcelona   	178  184   new
2     Gerard Piqué      25   Spain		 Yes       Barcelona    178  179   new
3     Cesc Fábregas	25   Spain               Yes       Barcelona    174  186   new
4     Víctor Valdés     30   Spain		 Yes       Barcelona    172  177   new
5     Sergio Busquets   23   Spain		 Yes       Barcelona    164  172   new
6     Carles Puyol      34   Spain               Yes       Barcelona    158  177   new
7     Jordi Alba        23   Spain		 No        Valencia     155  167   new
8     Bojan             21   Spain               Yes       Roma         152  166   new
9     Víctor Ruiz	23   Spain               Yes       Valencia     150  162   new
10    Fernando Navarro  29   Spain               Yes       Sevilla      144  150   new

TOP 10 CATALAN INTERNATIONAL PLAYERS BY CA

POS   NAME              AGE  POSITION   CAPS   GOALS   CLUB	    CA   PA   Change   
1     Javi Márquez      26   DM, AMLC   9      0       Espanyol     143  150   new
2     Dídac             23   DWBL       5      0       Espanyol     141  150   new
3     Sergio Sánchez    26   DRC        8      0       Málaga       140  150   new
4     Albert Crusat     30   AMLC       8      2       Wigan        137  142   new
5     Joan Verdú        29   AMC        8      1       Espanyol     137  147   new
6     A. De la Bella    26   DWBL       6      0       R. Sociedad  134  141   new
7     Víctor Sánchez    24   DWBR, DM   9      1       Espanyol     134  141   new
8     Jordi Figueras    25   DC         7      0       Club Brugge  133  140   new
9     Jordi Codina      30   GK         6      0       Getafe       129  140   new
10    Carlos García     28   DC         6      0       Almería      128  140   new

TOP 10 CATALAN YOUNG PLAYERS BY PA

POS   NAME                AGE  REGISTERED NATION   DECLARED  CLUB	  CA   PA   Development
1     Gerard Deulofeu     18   Spain               No        Barcelona    117  170  new
2     Benigno Sánchez     15   Catalonia           Yes       Barcelona    80   167  new
3     Bojan               21   Spain               Yes       Roma         152  166  new
4     Sergi Roberto       20   Spain               No        Barcelona    126  165  new
5     Martín Montoya      21   Spain		   No        Barcelona    132  158  new
6     Álvaro		  21   Spain		   No        Espanyol     136  157  new
7     Jordi Amat          20   Spain               No        Espanyol     138  155  new
8     Marc Muniesa        20   Spain               No        Barcelona    125  155  new
9     Sergio Ayala        19   Catalonia           No        Barcelona    78   148  new
10    Edu Campabadal      19   Catalonia           No        Barcelona    82   146  new

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