blala Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 no neil i have match getting the crossbar about 3 or 4 times ,i gone crazy after that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigman Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 well if si don't make the game playable again (after a poll thread where the vast majority felt the game was fine pre patch) then i think me, and alot of others are done with this game u can defend the motication issue as much as u want, but i havn't loaded up steam since i started a new game with this update, i don't even have the option to get rid of it and revert the game to how it was when i enjoyed it poor form si, i have been a loyal customer for years and put alot of my money, into your products Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDSkillz Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 That's just rubbish.Maybe the woodwork count is slightly higher than IRL, but its still not more than 1 per team each 2 matches at the high end. Perhaps teams suffering from it have strikers with a tendency to try to place the ball in the corners? Anyway, no significant ME changes for 12.2, just so you don't get your hopes up. What? no ME Changes planned to fix thisl? even with all the moaning about the 1 on 1 situations that most players agree its a bug? Thats whats kept me waiting for the next patch... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwfan Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 What? no ME Changes planned to fix thisl? even with all the moaning about the 1 on 1 situations that most players agree its a bug?Thats whats kept me waiting for the next patch... There are no bugged 1 on 1 situations. The best players will only convert 33% of one on ones. Most will be circa 25%. In addition, many of the one on ones in FM are incredibly hurried shots under pressure, which will make the odds of converting go down. The problem is that it is still slightly too easy to create tactics that generate such chances on a regular basis, not that the one on ones aren't being converted at a high enough rate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverboot81 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 There are no bugged 1 on 1 situations. The best players will only convert 33% of one on ones. Most will be circa 25%. In addition, many of the one on ones in FM are incredibly hurried shots under pressure, which will make the odds of converting go down. The problem is that it is still slightly too easy to create tactics that generate such chances on a regular basis, not that the one on ones aren't being converted at a high enough rate. Sorry to bother you but where did you those 33% and 25% convert percentages? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwfan Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Sorry to bother you but where did you those 33% and 25% convert percentages? From a research paper on chance conversion ratios in football, written in 2002 I think. I have it saved somewhere and will post the title if I find it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverboot81 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 From a research paper on chance conversion ratios in football, written in 2002 I think. I have it saved somewhere and will post the title if I find it. Thanks. That would be very interesting reading. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDSkillz Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 There are no bugged 1 on 1 situations. The best players will only convert 33% of one on ones. Most will be circa 25%. In addition, many of the one on ones in FM are incredibly hurried shots under pressure, which will make the odds of converting go down. The problem is that it is still slightly too easy to create tactics that generate such chances on a regular basis, not that the one on ones aren't being converted at a high enough rate. I agree that a hurried shot or a shot under pressure should me inaccurate but I'm talking about when a player dribbles past a defender and is one on one with 0 pressure and misses the target when in reality i see the players round the keeper or a gentle chip shot is played. That just doesn't happen and I think a bit more animations could solve this. Maybe the change needed is that these situations are reduced and replaced by other chances that are better converted, I mean I have 5 one on one situations every game that's why I'm frustrated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_magico89 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 @paul c: what about crosses? what about defending? what about defensive behaviour of players, being too cautious, hesitating to tackle? only with hard tackling, you have chances to win battles and challenges, but still too dangerous... I hope in the next patch, these things are solved... oh, I forgot to mention, that AMC, AMR and AML dont do anything defensively. just stay arround and not closing down the opposition as soon as the opposition is a bit out of its own third. this makes formations like 4231 unplayable, since your always getting dominated, as you only have 2 men in midfield, who have to protect the midfield and to win the ball back... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt ex SEGA Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Maybe I'm just a tactical guru (I assure you, I'm not...), but I've had a good degree of success with 4231 - in fact, more so than normally. I've found 442 harder to get to work... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevemc Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 That's just rubbish.Maybe the woodwork count is slightly higher than IRL, but its still not more than 1 per team each 2 matches at the high end. Perhaps teams suffering from it have strikers with a tendency to try to place the ball in the corners? Anyway, no significant ME changes for 12.2, just so you don't get your hopes up. Got to say Paul, that is utter rubbish. 1 per team per two matches? I've had players hit the bar/post 3-4 per match since the update in my Man United save game. Except Antonio Valencia, who can suddenly finish anything, from anywhere on the pitch. no neil i have match getting the crossbar about 3 or 4 times ,i gone crazy after that This. Glad to see I'm not the only one, because I'm not lying... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevemc Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 well if si don't make the game playable again (after a poll thread where the vast majority felt the game was fine pre patch) then i think me, and alot of others are done with this gameu can defend the motication issue as much as u want, but i havn't loaded up steam since i started a new game with this update, i don't even have the option to get rid of it and revert the game to how it was when i enjoyed it poor form si, i have been a loyal customer for years and put alot of my money, into your products This. I've not loaded up FM12 since before the New Year. I'll try if with the new patch, but if its not enjoyable, FM13 onwards will be a no no from me (and I've been a customer every year since CM97/98). What? no ME Changes planned to fix thisl? even with all the moaning about the 1 on 1 situations that most players agree its a bug?Thats whats kept me waiting for the next patch... Same here, I was hoping it would be toned back slightly with a January transfers patch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff PaulC Posted January 12, 2012 SI Staff Share Posted January 12, 2012 Got to say Paul, that is utter rubbish. From season 1 in 12.1..... English Premier Division --------------- Games played 380 Goals per match 2.73 Shots per match 22.20 Shots on target per match 8.23 (37%) Goals per match (home) 1.65 Shots per match (home) 13.35 Shots on target per match(h) 4.95 (37%) Goals per match (away) 1.08 Shots per match (away) 8.84 Shots on target per match(a) 3.28 (37%) Penalties per match 0.21 Penalty conversion 0.14 (67%) Own Goals per match 0.14 Disallowed Goals per match 0.23 Shots Blocked while Defending per match 4.20 Saves Held 2.27 Saves Parried 2.24 Saves Tipped 1.27 Clear cut chances per match 2.99 Half chances per match 7.09 Other chances per match 12.18 Blocked shots per match 4.21 Hit woodwork per match 1.00 Passes per match 634.39 Passes completed 488.54 (77%) Passes key 8.49 Crosses per match 38.21 Crosses completed 7.09 (19%) Tackles per match 88.03 Tackles completed 58.81 (67%) Tackles key 2.76 Headers key 13.91 Assists per match 2.48 RPOs per match 15.56 Interceptions per match 64.97 Offsides per match 5.47 Fouls per match 28.11 Throw ins per match 34.76 Corners per match 9.27 Goals from corners 0.39 Goals from DFKs 0.07 Goals from IFKs 0.34 Yellow cards per match 2.88 Red cards per match 0.18 Major injuries per match 0.48 Minor injuries per match 0.24 Hat tricks per match 0.05 First half goals 50% Goals by strikers 45% Goals by midfielders 41% Goals by defenders 9% Headed shots 18% Headed shots on target 37% Headed goals 17% Long range shots 37% Long range goals 9% Close range shots 22% Close range goals 47% Draws 20% 0-0 Draws 7% Win margin 1.59 3 goal wins 16% 4 goal wins 5% 5+ goal wins 2% Goalkeeper Rating 6.76 Right Back Rating 6.84 Left Back Rating 6.90 Centre Back Rating 6.83 Right Wing Back Rating 6.55 Left Wing Back Rating 6.80 Def Mid Rating 6.83 Right Mid rating 6.88 Left Mid rating 6.91 Centre Mid Rating 6.87 Right AM rating 6.89 Left AM rating 6.95 AM rating 6.86 Striker rating 6.87 Overall rating 6.86 npower Championship --------------- Games played 557 Goals per match 2.55 Shots per match 20.83 Shots on target per match 7.43 (36%) Goals per match (home) 1.36 Shots per match (home) 11.83 Shots on target per match(h) 4.15 (35%) Goals per match (away) 1.19 Shots per match (away) 8.96 Shots on target per match(a) 3.26 (36%) Penalties per match 0.15 Penalty conversion 0.11 (78%) Own Goals per match 0.15 Disallowed Goals per match 0.22 Shots Blocked while Defending per match 3.86 Saves Held 2.13 Saves Parried 1.97 Saves Tipped 1.06 Clear cut chances per match 2.89 Half chances per match 6.69 Other chances per match 11.36 Blocked shots per match 3.88 Hit woodwork per match 1.01 Passes per match 627.72 Passes completed 477.31 (76%) Passes key 8.24 Crosses per match 39.66 Crosses completed 7.37 (19%) Tackles per match 81.75 Tackles completed 55.25 (68%) Tackles key 2.75 Headers key 13.23 Assists per match 2.30 RPOs per match 14.03 Interceptions per match 66.85 Offsides per match 5.45 Fouls per match 24.53 Throw ins per match 38.07 Corners per match 9.11 Goals from corners 0.36 Goals from DFKs 0.08 Goals from IFKs 0.26 Yellow cards per match 2.54 Red cards per match 0.12 Major injuries per match 0.56 Minor injuries per match 0.29 Hat tricks per match 0.03 First half goals 50% Goals by strikers 50% Goals by midfielders 36% Goals by defenders 8% Headed shots 18% Headed shots on target 33% Headed goals 18% Long range shots 37% Long range goals 8% Close range shots 22% Close range goals 45% Draws 29% 0-0 Draws 9% Win margin 1.25 3 goal wins 12% 4 goal wins 2% 5+ goal wins 1% Goalkeeper Rating 6.76 Right Back Rating 6.90 Left Back Rating 6.87 Centre Back Rating 6.84 Right Wing Back Rating 6.80 Left Wing Back Rating 6.80 Def Mid Rating 6.86 Right Mid rating 6.85 Left Mid rating 6.83 Centre Mid Rating 6.83 Right AM rating 6.98 Left AM rating 6.88 AM rating 6.86 Striker rating 6.83 Overall rating 6.84 Serie A --------------- Games played 380 Goals per match 2.23 Shots per match 19.97 Shots on target per match 6.98 (35%) Goals per match (home) 1.21 Shots per match (home) 11.49 Shots on target per match(h) 3.99 (35%) Goals per match (away) 1.02 Shots per match (away) 8.47 Shots on target per match(a) 2.99 (35%) Penalties per match 0.20 Penalty conversion 0.17 (84%) Own Goals per match 0.12 Disallowed Goals per match 0.19 Shots Blocked while Defending per match 3.96 Saves Held 2.03 Saves Parried 1.83 Saves Tipped 1.08 Clear cut chances per match 2.41 Half chances per match 6.02 Other chances per match 11.69 Blocked shots per match 3.96 Hit woodwork per match 0.86 Passes per match 635.79 Passes completed 493.57 (78%) Passes key 7.52 Crosses per match 39.48 Crosses completed 6.89 (17%) Tackles per match 84.57 Tackles completed 56.58 (67%) Tackles key 2.20 Headers key 14.01 Assists per match 1.99 RPOs per match 13.96 Interceptions per match 62.85 Offsides per match 4.51 Fouls per match 27.30 Throw ins per match 36.28 Corners per match 8.97 Goals from corners 0.31 Goals from DFKs 0.04 Goals from IFKs 0.31 Yellow cards per match 4.92 Red cards per match 0.21 Major injuries per match 0.54 Minor injuries per match 0.33 Hat tricks per match 0.02 First half goals 51% Goals by strikers 46% Goals by midfielders 36% Goals by defenders 13% Headed shots 18% Headed shots on target 32% Headed goals 18% Long range shots 40% Long range goals 10% Close range shots 21% Close range goals 49% Draws 31% 0-0 Draws 12% Win margin 1.20 3 goal wins 5% 4 goal wins 5% 5+ goal wins 0% Goalkeeper Rating 6.80 Right Back Rating 6.87 Left Back Rating 6.90 Centre Back Rating 6.81 Right Wing Back Rating 6.75 Left Wing Back Rating 6.67 Def Mid Rating 6.86 Right Mid rating 6.84 Left Mid rating 6.86 Centre Mid Rating 6.84 Right AM rating 6.85 Left AM rating 6.89 AM rating 6.86 Striker rating 6.80 Overall rating 6.83 Italian Serie B --------------- Games played 470 Goals per match 2.42 Shots per match 17.57 Shots on target per match 6.29 (36%) Goals per match (home) 1.32 Shots per match (home) 9.71 Shots on target per match(h) 3.35 (34%) Goals per match (away) 1.10 Shots per match (away) 7.86 Shots on target per match(a) 2.94 (37%) Penalties per match 0.19 Penalty conversion 0.15 (80%) Own Goals per match 0.11 Disallowed Goals per match 0.19 Shots Blocked while Defending per match 3.38 Saves Held 1.66 Saves Parried 1.54 Saves Tipped 0.82 Clear cut chances per match 2.46 Half chances per match 5.67 Other chances per match 9.54 Blocked shots per match 3.39 Hit woodwork per match 0.88 Passes per match 623.64 Passes completed 477.52 (77%) Passes key 7.66 Crosses per match 40.36 Crosses completed 7.59 (19%) Tackles per match 80.61 Tackles completed 54.08 (67%) Tackles key 2.27 Headers key 13.54 Assists per match 2.13 RPOs per match 13.79 Interceptions per match 64.24 Offsides per match 5.19 Fouls per match 25.39 Throw ins per match 39.21 Corners per match 8.76 Goals from corners 0.36 Goals from DFKs 0.06 Goals from IFKs 0.35 Yellow cards per match 3.73 Red cards per match 0.21 Major injuries per match 0.51 Minor injuries per match 0.30 Hat tricks per match 0.02 First half goals 49% Goals by strikers 47% Goals by midfielders 38% Goals by defenders 10% Headed shots 23% Headed shots on target 36% Headed goals 23% Long range shots 32% Long range goals 7% Close range shots 26% Close range goals 51% Draws 26% 0-0 Draws 8% Win margin 1.20 3 goal wins 9% 4 goal wins 2% 5+ goal wins 1% Goalkeeper Rating 6.74 Right Back Rating 6.85 Left Back Rating 6.89 Centre Back Rating 6.79 Right Wing Back Rating 6.80 Left Wing Back Rating 6.80 Def Mid Rating 6.85 Right Mid rating 6.79 Left Mid rating 6.87 Centre Mid Rating 6.82 Right AM rating 6.86 Left AM rating 6.94 AM rating 6.86 Striker rating 6.82 Overall rating 6.83 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Soak test results always make for interesting reading & for me the injury ratio is the one that is standing out. If I'm reading the numbers correctly the avg. figure of 0.5 major injuries per match translates to a major injury statistically happening in every other game (2:1 game/injury ratio), am I correct? Also out of interest in these soak tests do you ensure that the AI uses a variety of tactics or do you tend to find that the game will always gravitate to a small group of default tactics? The risk being that any changes to the ME will focus on a small sample which in turn could leas to a greater chance of super-tactics or exploits evolving within the ME. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim morrow Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 @Barside, it's a ratio if you do the right things. But If you manage not very well the jadedness and the condition of your players, you can have more injuries than normal ratio. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sikker Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Yeah, it seems weird that the risk of a major injury is twice the risk of a minor injury happening. If anything it should be the other way around. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hluraven Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I presume major injury means any red cross injury, regardless if it actually causes any time missed after the game however. I would agree that more minor injuries should happen throughout though, those fiddly little injuries where a player misses one or two games only seem under-represented. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_magico89 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 so can we say, that patch 12.2 is coming soon? at least youve done some testings and I would like to start a new save, but when patch 2 will arrive soon, I might start a save with fm 11.3. even when its savegame compatible, I dont like playing installing patches during a long term save... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriss Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 There's no date for the next update, but personally I wouldn't expect it before late Feb early March due to the time it takes to integrate and test the data updates. Nothing I've seen atm suggests any urgent fixes are needed before the post window update though you should never rule out one off fixes now Steam is the medium. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff PaulC Posted January 12, 2012 SI Staff Share Posted January 12, 2012 To clarify; Major Injury = Red injury = substituted player. These can range from minor to major in severity Minor Injury = Green injury = knock but can continue. These are generally minor in severity. Cheers, Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mons Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 so can we say, that patch 12.2 is coming soon? at least youve done some testings and I would like to start a new save, but when patch 2 will arrive soon, I might start a save with fm 11.3. even when its savegame compatible, I dont like playing installing patches during a long term save... First of all I doubt that a new patch will be released before the end of the transfer window at the very earliest. In FM10 and FM11, the third and final patch was released in mid-March. SI understandably very rarely give definite dates of when patches will be out as the backlash and uproar should they miss it would be tremendous. In my experience of playing CM/FM (ever since I registered), I've not had a SINGLE problem with installing patches in the middle of save games and would strongly recommend anybody playing a long-term game to patch it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grade Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Those stats are real life stats or the ME? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt ex SEGA Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Those stats are real life stats or the ME? Match engine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyzer Soze Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I think that i will not uptade FM with the next patch. For me the game is so kcufing perfect right now, that i fear that any changes will do worst then better! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 To clarify;Major Injury = Red injury = substituted player. These can range from minor to major in severity Minor Injury = Green injury = knock but can continue. These are generally minor in severity. Cheers, Paul Paul, I understand the difference between the two injury type but I am still concerned that a 0.50 ratio appears to be too high & it pains me to say that there may well be some credence to claims of an injury bug as that ratio is I assume a ratio based on all teams in the division which under the laws of probability could see a single side suffering from a large number of red flag injuries. Rather than just looking at the pure game:injury ratio you really need to look at the team:game:injury statistic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff PaulC Posted January 12, 2012 SI Staff Share Posted January 12, 2012 I'm comfortable with the injuries at 1 per team each 4 matches. The injury tables tend to look ok as well. Not saying the balance is 100% perfect in terms of severity, type etc, but there are other areas I would prefer to prioritize in the ME. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Welsh Lad Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 When people go on about the amount of injuries they are having it baffles me that they think its to much. Just look at Newcastle in years gone by, look at Arsenal this season. These things happen it could be a combination of training players to hard for the standard of facilities you have, could be asking players to play at a higher tempo than they are used to causing hem to make rash choices resulting in them picking up injuries. I feel the game is quite balanced, I haven't experienced an injury crisis to the extent some have said they are experiencing but every save is different, if they tweaked the injury codes so players will get injured less people will be coming on saying in their save no-one got injured for the entire season (which could happen has the settings are now), so SI are always in a catch 22 situation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grade Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Match engine. Okay, I was going to make point, but with your answer no point to make a point. Or is it A point to make point to a point... Kidding. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt ex SEGA Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Yes. I mean no. Errr.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oliverbeckham Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I have looked EVERYWHERE for reasons why my FM 2012 wont update on steam? I have tryed everything, i have searched everywhere please help? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbie123 Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Hi everyone I dont post on here very often so quick intro, I been playing since the Domark days which I think was probably even more than 20 years ago. I tend to be a bit of a plug and play merchant these days as the young family and hectic job mean that is all I have time for, so it is that or nothing. Pretty much always loved the game although one or two versions were a bit painful at times. I also only buy the game in January once most of the bugs are ironed out and I play one career game in multiple countries then buy the next version!! I have noticed the following doing some testing with Red Star (International Footballer previous experience) like others and believe these are being looked in to: 1. Game switches to pitch view after making a substituion. I play in commentary only and settings are all fine. Game crashes if I tab out of FM during a substitution. 2. Assigned my match preparation to my assistant manager and went on a horrible losing streak against inferior teams and ended up getting the sack!! I never been sacked in previous 20 years!! 3. Ridiculous number of red cards which I suspect are related to players morale. I kept seeing "danger of losing discipline" type messages. For example I played four Euro Cup qualifiers and had at least one red card in each game, sometimes more. 4. Penalty shoot outs with poor morale seemed to result in me missing all penalties. 5. Crazy number of own goals. 6. Contract negotiations seem to drag and then end up getting cancelled on transfer deadline day. 7. Having a lot of difficulty loaning players out. Just see the loans rejected without reason. 8. Could not motivate players despite having International footballer experience. Generally though I found the game really onerous and the least fun I have experienced to date. I had a great saved game on 2011 that had been playing for past 12 months and deleted it which I now hugely regret. There seemed to be plenty of comments about the game being more realistic, well in my opinion the most important thing I should be hearing is that the game is more fun......not realistic. In football everyone has a dream and if it becomes near impossible or completely onerous to achieve that dream, people wont bother. SI have provided a product that has been a big part of my life, sadly, and I would hope that to continue but not like this. And let's not forget that some people got this game as a gift for xmas and they dont live on the forums so they had no idea that Steam would automatically apply which version of the game they play. I didnt play the previous version, but I dont like this one and have every sympathy for others that wish to revert to the previous patch. Finally, my biggest frustration in reading this thread was reading continuous posts by non-moderators or SI staff continually disagreeing with people's opinions. First time I am really disappointed with the playability of the game, that is my opinion, you wont change it and think it is fair enough everyone is able to come on here and say that. SI need a balanced view from all customers I would think not just the experts that play FM every waking minute available to them that still think the game is too easy. Please re-adjust the balance. Wont be playing the game until the next patch which will mean first time without FM in 20 years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirajzl Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Herbie, don't get your hopes up as this is the direction SI have decided to take FM to. I don't like it more than you do, but it is what it is. It seems they have no intention to fix some of the basic aspects of the game (like long-term AI), and yet you can be sure we'll see some more changes on morale system and a reshuffled UI for the next version(s). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Finally, my biggest frustration in reading this thread was reading continuous posts by non-moderators or SI staff continually disagreeing with people's opinions. First time I am really disappointed with the playability of the game, that is my opinion, you wont change it and think it is fair enough everyone is able to come on here and say that. SI need a balanced view from all customers I would think not just the experts that play FM every waking minute available to them that still think the game is too easy. So you won't change your opinion but you expect others to change there's?I'm afraid to say that I cannot agree with your opinion, if the game does not evolve then it ceases to be relevant, Why would you buy FM13 or 14 if all it offered was the same experience of CM01/02 with an updated database? SI are in the business of sports simulation & ever since the first CM hit the world it has always been about delivering the most realistic representation of football management, we all fondly remember past versions of the game (well maybe not CM4) but if you go back to play them now the flaws become all too apparent & that fun element you remembered no longer exists because that version is suddenly too easy due to the AI being beyond dumb or you realise that brilliant tactic you had actually exploited a glitch in the ME or being able to win by buying the same type of players & using the same tactic regardless of nation, team or level isn't as fun as you once remembered. For me the ever increasing layers of realism add to the challenges that this game offers & it is the challenge of getting it right that creates the fun, if anything I think SI have held back over recent years & it is time for FM to take a greater leap forward in the realism stakes. As an after thought maybe SI could consider porting FMH to PC/MAC & releasing it as a digital download. It's a faster paced game & lacks the depth of FM so it strikes me as a logical compromise for people who feel that FM has left them behind but are not sold on the idea of buying an additional mobile devise just to play FMH. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirajzl Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 So you won't change your opinion but you expect others to change there's?I'm afraid to say that I cannot agree with your opinion, if the game does not evolve then it ceases to be relevant, Why would you buy FM13 or 14 if all it offered was the same experience of CM01/02 with an updated database? SI are in the business of sports simulation & ever since the first CM hit the world it has always been about delivering the most realistic representation of football management, we all fondly remember past versions of the game (well maybe not CM4) but if you go back to play them now the flaws become all too apparent & that fun element you remembered no longer exists because that version is suddenly too easy due to the AI being beyond dumb or you realise that brilliant tactic you had actually exploited a glitch in the ME or being able to win by buying the same type of players & using the same tactic regardless of nation, team or level isn't as fun as you once remembered. For me the ever increasing layers of realism add to the challenges that this game offers & it is the challenge of getting it right that creates the fun, if anything I think SI have held back over recent years & it is time for FM to take a greater leap forward in the realism stakes. That's all true, but you need to remember there are some irritating flaws in the game that remain unfixed year after year. You'd think SI would first fix the most basic elements of a football management game and then move on to adding new features to make the game more realistic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I suspect Herbie is judging the game from one odd save he has started - I have yet to see an "insane amount" of own goals and red cards he is describing and contract negotiations being cancelled. If he liked FM 2011, there is no reason why he shouldn't like FM 2012, with the only major tweak in gameplay being the toned down morale extremes that either made your players over or underperform with ease. A good thing, if you ask me. And one of the main reasons I like FM 2012 more than 2011. Or 2008, which I owned previously. This doesn't have to do with Herbie's opinion specifically, but as many are talking as if the game had radically changed throughout the years when it hasn't: Even the layers that were subsequently added (conferences, team talks, player interaction) are wholly optional, don't have anywhere near the game making/braking effect as many make them out to have - and should perhaps be better communicated as such. The game still allows for all kinds of management styles, from bonafide bargain hunters who just shop for the best talent possible and leave the more hands-on man management to their assistant to bonafide tactic or mind game wizards and everything in between. Yes, assistants are making mistakes, but so are AI managers - up to upsetting players so much that they want to leave and storming out a press conference when being put under pressure, extreme outcomes I've yet to see from actions of personal assistants. If anything, the entire thing is rigged in favor of the player for a start. The tactics creator has made it so that entire strategies can be altered in the space of two clicks and even casual players can adopt to the match situation at hand within seconds at any time. The only thing that has really changed, maybe, is the added difficulty to make up and download a "plug&play" tactic aka "slider combinations that override the AI" and makes any side overperform without much effort - let alone ever changing the game plan accordingly to the in-game situation at hand. But honestly, if you're not into making the two clicks required to make your side sit back when trying to hold onto that lead being 1-0 up away at Old Trafford with ten minutes to, football management games likely aren't for you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 That's all true, but you need to remember there are some irritating flaws in the game that remain unfixed year after year. You'd think SI would first fix the most basic elements of a football management game and then move on to adding new features to make the game more realistic.I'm not looking for any new features per se & agree that many of the features that have been added over recent years need refining, for me the answer is to push the technical requirements of the game. Looking over the copies of FM on my shelf the min specs for the game have not changed since FM09 & even then the major change was the gfx requirement, up to FM08 every release required greater CPU & RAM requirements which for me indicates that the game has reached a plateau. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dolph11 Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I see a lot of own goals, lots of long-term injuries, lots of cards, horrific defending, unbelievable one-on-one misses under very little pressure and players stood still and running slower while the opposition get to the ball first. Not from one poor save, I got Prestatyn into the Champions League where I beat Celtic in The Group Stages! You don't have to be rubbish at the game to see flaws in it. I use my own tactics but some of the P&P ones I have experimented with are among the best! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbie123 Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Barside.....I am not trying to change anyone's opinions, just posting my own. Plus I certainly dont want to get in to an argument about who is right. We all play the game for different reasons so it is impossible to get people to agree sometimes. And Svenc..............I am going to give this another try but this time I wont assign my assistant manager to Match Preparation. It is an added pain but a small one. I just opened the Swedish league and will take control of Malmo as they are predicted to finish 1st. I will be back in the next 24 hours or so on the points I posted above to see if I am still having the same issues. Fingers crossed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 In hindsight I probably should have let that comment go, based on what you've said about the game starting with a team predicted to win their national title might not be the best idea, many of the issues that people have talked about are exacerbated when the board/media/players/fans have an expectation of immediate success. This is just my personal opinion but you need to look at giving yourself a more gentle learning curve & start at a side with more modest expectations as the likely to be more forgiving of any mistakes you make. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbie123 Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I see your point, but if I start with a Brazilian manager with some impressive international experience, motivating anyone in the swedish league is not going to be a problem. So let's see how realistic it is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbie123 Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Some stats to back up my points above. I played 18 games with Red Star and there were 53 goals in those games, 5 of which were own goals. So 10% basically. That seems high but I dont have official statistics to compare. Also in those 18 games there were 9 red cards, 8 of those were to my players. So almost a red card every other game for my own players. I think that is too much and like I said my player's performance was often bordering on "losing discipline". Will keep a very close eye on this now I know what to expect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Also in those 18 games there were 9 red cards, 8 of those were to my players. So almost a red card every other game for my own players. I think that is too much and like I said my player's performance was often bordering on "losing discipline". Will keep a very close eye on this now I know what to expect.You might want to check you individual player instructions, I noticed that the default tackling setting for a number of roles is 'hard'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dolph11 Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 A couple more things, my throw ins are set to short, I have players open yet the throw in taker likes to throw it up the pitch to an opposing player, this happens often with different teams and players. Secondly, my tempo is low and time wasting is almost at the bottom of rarely yet my players still hold the ball too long, get tackled and lose posession when there is an easy pass available. This just shouldn't be happening, it happens often. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
najeczka Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Hey Paul I would ask you a question. I`m playing Fc Bayern in FM 2012 and when I started and looked at the team i saw then one player is missing. So the question is -> Where is Takeshi Usami? On topic... I was the one from many people who criticised the 12.1.1 patch. But now I figured it out. I changed my tactic a bit and the team talk. So i noticed that on this patch we should be more "calm" on the FT team talk. So if you win only 1:0 versus a weak team, you should preise the team - keeps the morale high, and not slamming the team I`m now playing the 3rd season on the 12.1.1 patch -> 12 games in German League played 11 wins/1draw, 4games in CL -> 4 wins and 2 wins in German Cup Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GR Choke Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 why does FM still say the current version is 12.0.0? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CityAndColour Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Database hasn't changed when you start a game. Game status should say 12.1.1. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnoldzhu Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Hi Paul and SI guys! Just a quick reply cos I'm currenly feeling fine with 12.1.1 and uh some issues raised by some people I feel just can live with them. Stats and injuries are just fine with me. What I care about most is the match engine performance. I'd like to watch my players and also opponents players using great skills and making entertaining passes and movements. Because that's what is really exiciting thing to see in this game. So in future patches or new versions I'd appreciate it if we can see more vivid skills on controlling the balls and dribbles like irl. The only obvious problem I think currently is the ball controlling actions around wings and the corner of box. In real life players would more often stop the ball to their feet and turned their body angle facing the oppenents and then try to make 45 degree one on one dribbles to challenge to cut in to the box. Like Messi C.Ronaldo and many others do irl. In the game we too often see wingers and wide mids always try to run directly to byline and make crosses. Rarely see players stops play and dictate tempo or making one on one challange after they chase to get a loose ball and try to cut in. And sometimes on a counterattack the player always dribbles the ball to wings to try to make a cross other than stick in the middle and try to evade the only one defender. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proffa Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I suspect Herbie is judging the game from one odd save he has started - I have yet to see an "insane amount" of own goals and red cards he is describing and contract negotiations being cancelled. If he liked FM 2011, there is no reason why he shouldn't like FM 2012, with the only major tweak in gameplay being the toned down morale extremes that either made your players over or underperform with ease. A good thing, if you ask me. And one of the main reasons I like FM 2012 more than 2011. Or 2008, which I owned previously.This doesn't have to do with Herbie's opinion specifically, but as many are talking as if the game had radically changed throughout the years when it hasn't: Even the layers that were subsequently added (conferences, team talks, player interaction) are wholly optional, don't have anywhere near the game making/braking effect as many make them out to have - and should perhaps be better communicated as such. The game still allows for all kinds of management styles, from bonafide bargain hunters who just shop for the best talent possible and leave the more hands-on man management to their assistant to bonafide tactic or mind game wizards and everything in between. Yes, assistants are making mistakes, but so are AI managers - up to upsetting players so much that they want to leave and storming out a press conference when being put under pressure, extreme outcomes I've yet to see from actions of personal assistants. If anything, the entire thing is rigged in favor of the player for a start. The tactics creator has made it so that entire strategies can be altered in the space of two clicks and even casual players can adopt to the match situation at hand within seconds at any time. The only thing that has really changed, maybe, is the added difficulty to make up and download a "plug&play" tactic aka "slider combinations that override the AI" and makes any side overperform without much effort - let alone ever changing the game plan accordingly to the in-game situation at hand. But honestly, if you're not into making the two clicks required to make your side sit back when trying to hold onto that lead being 1-0 up away at Old Trafford with ten minutes to, football management games likely aren't for you. Give this guy a medal, he just summed up everything. Well done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
torehj Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Could someone help me, please. I can not download 12.1.1 on the computer i have FM12 installed on because i can not connect to internet on that machine for some reason. Is there any way for me to download the patch on an other pc and put it on a memory pen to be installed on the original machine? Do I have to download it through Steam? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriss Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Could someone help me, please. I can not download 12.1.1 on the computer i have FM12 installed on because i can not connect to internet on that machine for some reason. Is there any way for me to download the patch on an other pc and put it on a memory pen to be installed on the original machine? Do I have to download it through Steam? Sadly no, you have to get online long enough for Steam to update your game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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