Neil Brock

Football Manager 12.1.1 update *OFFICIAL* Feedback Thread

1,369 posts in this topic

What's up with player condition after this patch? Seems like every time there are two matches in the space of a week every player is capped at 95% for the second one regardless of whether they actually played in the first. Is it just in my game? Or if not, what's the point of that? To render rotation pointless so the AI teams who suck at it would be more competitive? Or what?

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Also, what's with the 'recent attribute changes' arrows? These now show up even if the attribute hasn't changed. I suppose it's to indicate a slight change that's not enough to bring the attribute number up or down but it makes the profile page a mess and much harder to actually follow player progress/regression.

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[QUOTE=Äktsjon Männ;7456353]Also, what's with the 'recent attribute changes' arrows? These now show up even if the attribute hasn't changed. I suppose it's to indicate a slight change that's not enough to bring the attribute number up or down but it makes the profile page a mess and much harder to actually follow player progress/regression.[/QUOTE]

I think it makes it much easier to follow player progression, and you spot players having a poor training period much earlier than with the previous system :)

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[quote name='BiggusD']I think it makes it much easier to follow player progression, and you spot players having a poor training period much earlier than with the previous system :)[/QUOTE]

A poor training period means sod all though. What matters is progression over a longer period of time. My problem with it is that it's harder to understand what aspects of their game are actually improving/regressing when the players constantly have an arrow next to every attribute. If I'm interested in their training performance I should be able to find it in their training page.

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The arrows for attribute changes are pointing higher/lower and differ slightly in colour, as far as I observed, so there shouldn't be a problem spotting them.

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[quote name='michaelthestrange']The arrows for attribute changes are pointing higher/lower and differ slightly in colour, as far as I observed, so there shouldn't be a problem spotting them.[/QUOTE]

Well most of them look like [URL="http://i.imgur.com/6jtnB.jpg"]this[/URL] now. There are a couple of attributes there that actually have changed, most have not though. How am I supposed to know what's changed unless I've memorized every attribute of every player I have?

Short term training progress should be described on the training pages imo, 'show recent attribute changes' should do just that, indicate what's actually changed. Otherwise it's pretty close to being useless.

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The attributes are stored on a scale of 1-100, so some changes will not be noticeable on the 1-20 scale, hence what you are seeing.

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[quote name='PaulC']The attributes are stored on a scale of 1-100, so some changes will not be noticeable on the 1-20 scale, hence what you are seeing.[/QUOTE]

Didn't see it before, don't want to see it now. Just like with the decimal player ratings you're showing me too much information. Too much information makes it harder to pin down the important parts.

Maybe something like this could be made optional in a future version?

Edit: too much information is a poor choice of words. What I meant is that it's too precise. The difference between 15.1 and 15.3 isn't enough to warrant a shiny green arrow on my screen making things more difficult to follow :)

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[QUOTE=Äktsjon Männ;7457553]Didn't see it before, don't want to see it now. Just like with the decimal player ratings you're showing me too much information. Too much information makes it harder to pin down the important parts.

Maybe something like this could be made optional in a future version?

Edit: too much information is a poor choice of words. What I meant is that it's too precise. The difference between 15.1 and 15.3 isn't enough to warrant a shiny green arrow on my screen making things more difficult to follow :)[/QUOTE]

But surely you'd want to know if it's an upward trend or a downward one?

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Hi,

I've been lurking for a while cause of the easiness issue. Now, after 2 months of no game for me, I see that a new patch surfaced.

To the hard core ones : thumb up or down ?

Thx in advance

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I like the changes & find myself having to pay more attention when I play, it was too easy to spend half a season hitting continue as you steamrollered your way to success before 12.1.1 was released.

That said I have noticed an increased instance of players not marking up correctly at set-pieces which might be an effect of the changes made to the ME.

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[quote name='grep']Hi,

I've been lurking for a while cause of the easiness issue. Now, after 2 months of no game for me, I see that a new patch surfaced.

To the hard core ones : thumb up or down ?

Thx in advance[/QUOTE]

hang on, are you say that after all your campaigning and asking for the patch, you havent actually played it?

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[quote name='themadsheep2001']hang on, are you say that after all your campaigning and asking for the patch, you havent actually played it?[/QUOTE]

Yes of course because the campaign was aimed to balance the game that , IMO, was too easy and for me no more a challenge so I quit playing it 2 months ago.

Now that a new patch has surfaced I hope I can go on from where I left 2 months ago.

What's weird with that ? The campaign was a desperate cry to have a playable FM, at least for me.

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[quote name='grep']Yes of course because the campaign was aimed to balance the game that , IMO, was too easy and for me no more a challenge so I quit playing it 2 months ago.

Now that a new patch has surfaced I hope I can go on from where I left 2 months ago.

What's weird with that ? The campaign was a desperate cry to have a playable FM, at least for me.[/QUOTE]

The game is more of a challenge now. Less form-based. It has improved. There is an issue (imo) with the balance in terms of lack of morale & manager reputation vs nervousness in the ME.

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My 2 cents. I too was caught with my pants down with the morale rebalancing thing. I was actually thinking maybe I was doing something wrong! The knockon effects of the rebalancing is quite significant to the way the game needs to be approached.

However, it didn't take me that long to figure it out. It's mostly common sense really. As a whole, I like this new patch and because of it, I now have to pay more attention to what's going on before, during and after matches especially with regard to my interactions with media and players. No more zoning out once you hit the "green zone".

I have 2 save files running now and my Whitecaps game is the one where the effect was felt the most. As a ex-pro (as opposed to an ex-international) rep manager, I had quite a few problems with motivation, just like everyone here. Just for reference, my playing staff stopped doubting me once I had led them to win the NACL and instead of having to deal with nerves I now have to deal with lack of interest and complacency!

Overall, the patch made the game a bit more difficult but I will have to disagree with the "game is broken" allegations. It's unfortunate that some of us here feel that way but to be honest, that extra bit of difficulty now has refired my interest again. I enjoyed it before but now I really can't wait to go home and fire up my saves!

My tip for people who got caught unawares is as follows:-

- Redo your tactics if your results are VASTLY different from before. Didn't really affect me much since I start out using defaults and modify them through shouts. It seems that many users are experiencing a jarring difference with their setup, so I recommend going back to basics and starting from there.
- Take control of teamtalks. From my experience go easy on players during rough patches, even more so when playing strong opposition away, even MORE so when you rep is lower than your club/playing staff. LOOK AT THE ODDS. Your approach to your teamtalks should be based on this. Take everything in context, it's not so hard to do if you stop and think for a second. It's ok to praise a narrow loss against a strong opponent and to criticize a narrow win against a weak one. Team personality also needs to be taken into account.
- Stick it out. On some days, bad form is bad and there nothing to do but ride it out. The least a manager can do is not make things worse.

I feel sorry to read about all the guys/girls who have lost interest in the game due to the "problems" caused by the changes because I truly am enjoying it more than before. I hope things work out for them.

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[quote name='BiggusD']The game is more of a challenge now. Less form-based. It has improved. There is an issue (imo) with the balance in terms of lack of morale & manager reputation vs nervousness in the ME.[/QUOTE]

Thanks a lot BiggusD, I still remember your precious support to the community when complaining about the easiness of FM.

That is a demonstration how skilled and valuable this community is, well done mate, many compliments for your precious posts.


Would you please very briefly enlighten me about the issue you mentioned elaborating it a bit more ? I am under the impression that the last pacth ( c'mon SI the last effort please ) will need again your input BiggusD and support.

Much appreciated

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Grep my best advice to you is just try it for yourself.

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[quote name='PaulC']Grep my best advice to you is just try it for yourself.[/QUOTE]

I will do that for sure Paul, really soon.

BTW thanks Paul C to have listened to the community in our crusade, SI is used to release excellent products also and above all for this reason and I am really proud of dealing with SI and its community.

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[quote name='grep']Thanks a lot BiggusD, I still remember your precious support to the community when complaining about the easiness of FM.

That is a demonstration how skilled and valuable this community is, well done mate, many compliments for your precious posts.


Would you please very briefly enlighten me about the issue you mentioned elaborating it a bit more ? I am under the impression that the last pacth ( c'mon SI the last effort please ) will need again your input BiggusD and support.

Much appreciated[/QUOTE]

Well, with Bradford I was already in the Premier League when the patch came, so I was highly regarded by my staff. Now I am of Continental reputation while Bradford as a club is still by far the smallest club in PL (regardless of representing the country in the Euro Cup). Needless to say, I have no problems with motivation and respect. I am a huge underdog in most matches, win most matches anyway and as a result morale is good and everyone is happy.

With Roma, however, where I also started out on Automatic reputation, I got a Regional reputation from the beginning and even with the previous patch (1,5 seasons) I had problems motivating the squad. When the patch came I lost even more respect among my players, but did well despite of this - ended 2nd behind my friend managing Napoli. Then when the third season started, I have had huge problems with nervousness of unprecedented levels. Still winning, but many matches are really painful to watch,as my defenders are invariably hoofing the ball wildly into the stands regardless of passing options and pressure. The tactic luckily prevents huge chances against and creates huge chances for me - but I get the feeling that the entertainment value of the game has gone down because of the lack of beautiful football; the kind we got used to with players having great morale and motivation.

To be more specific; I think there is a lack of good attacking play now that superb morale is gone from the equation. The defending is also too nervous and panicky overall (this also counts for the AI).

Ok or Good morale and decent motivation should be enough to let good players play good football, but I see much less of it now. As such I understand the frustrations of those who interpret this as the patch taking away the fun of the game - but I think that the animations in the ME just doesn't show the best stuff when players are medium motivated. I don't think SI will be able to patch in more beautiful football for non-superb-morale, non-winning-streak situations.

Regarding reputation, there seems to be an unfortunate knock-on effect there as well. There's sort of a dead-lock if you start out with low reputation! If you do well the club's reputation will increase along with yours in an apparent dead-even manner, so there is no way to gain respect among the players! If you don't do that well, the reputation of both you and the club will stay the same. Sadly, if you and the club has roughly equal reputation, the players won't respect you. I think that SI needs to tweak this so that the manager vs club vs player reputation thingy is less black-and-white. Only controversial players should openly oppose his manager to the extent we see professional, level-headed players do now, and after a few years with the same manager doing reasonably well the relationship should improve.

I also wonder about the sudden and severe nervousness settling in among my players. They are nervous at default, and lacking respect among the players they don't react at all to the team talks so there is nothing I can do about it. Why are my players suddenly nervous three seasons into the game, and how can I improve my reputation more than the club's?

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I have not had time to play football manager recently but fancied to finally start playing the game but for some reason it didn't load up so I turned steam to offline still nothing then uninstalled steam and football manager thought I would try to do a fresh installation but now when I try to install the game it says steam needs to be online to update set to online but I don't see how I can change it now. Can anybody help me please. I have a macbook if that makes any difference.

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[quote name='BiggusD']

Regarding reputation, there seems to be an unfortunate knock-on effect there as well. There's sort of a dead-lock if you start out with low reputation! If you do well the club's reputation will increase along with yours in an apparent dead-even manner, so there is no way to gain respect among the players! If you don't do that well, the reputation of both you and the club will stay the same. Sadly, if you and the club has roughly equal reputation, the players won't respect you.[/QUOTE]

Thats your assumption without anything to back it up, there is no way you will indefinitely be under respected because of rep, for a number of reasons. First off as you progress the club you will sign new players, most likely signing young players with a much lower rep than the club, so the rep rising on your current players is going to be immaterial in the long run as you will out pass them within a season or two, secondly players rep will only go up to a certain point depending on ability, very few players in the database will ever get to world class rep, and players will only get to continental rep if your doing well enough to get them up to that level, which in turn is going to increase your rep.

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[quote name='milnerpoint']Thats your assumption without anything to back it up, there is no way you will indefinitely be under respected because of rep, for a number of reasons. First off as you progress the club you will sign new players, most likely signing young players with a much lower rep than the club, so the rep rising on your current players is going to be immaterial in the long run as you will out pass them within a season or two, secondly players rep will only go up to a certain point depending on ability, very few players in the database will ever get to world class rep, and players will only get to continental rep if your doing well enough to get them up to that level, which in turn is going to increase your rep.[/QUOTE]

Assumption/observation anyways. Yeah -eventually- I will overtake them given that I start to win stuff :p

But that may take 6-7 seasons or more. Having stayed at a club for three seasons doing better than expected in all of them, don't you think that the players would like me quite well internally even though externally the footballing world thinks I am a lowlife?

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What do you mean by " the super morale setting is gone from the equation " ?

Is super morale still achievable or it has been cut out ?

thx

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Of course its achievable, just not easy to sustain for as long.

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[quote name='BiggusD']Assumption/observation anyways. Yeah -eventually- I will overtake them given that I start to win stuff :p

But that may take 6-7 seasons or more. Having stayed at a club for three seasons doing better than expected in all of them, don't you think that the players would like me quite well internally even though externally the footballing world thinks I am a lowlife?[/QUOTE]

Well you have already contradicted what you said in your first post,

[I]Regarding reputation, there seems to be an unfortunate knock-on effect there as well. There's sort of a dead-lock if you start out with low reputation! If you do well the club's reputation will increase along with yours in an apparent dead-even manner, so there is no way to gain respect among the players! If you don't do that well, the reputation of both you and the club will stay the same[/I]

with,

[I]I will overtake them given that I start to win stuff[/I]

:)

Also in your post you dont say the players dont respect you in the third season, you say they play with a lot of nerves, which is a different problem to players not responding to your team talks. Players can like you and still play nervously, that is most likely caused by over achieving the year before and your players being under more pressure.

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[quote name='Neil Brock']But surely you'd want to know if it's an upward trend or a downward one?[/QUOTE]

I understand what you are saying, but on this scale no, between 15.1 and 15.3 is something which makes no difference, but between 15 and 14 yes, as it has changed significantly to warranty a noticable arrow, or something similar.

Not that i mind them, i just see them all the time now on most of me players.

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Hi all, have just came across a problem after managing Fortuna Dusseldorf from the German Second Division, to Europa League qualification in 6 seasons, all the German League fixtures (1st and 2nd divisions) have disappeared. All I am left with is German Cup and Europa League and any friendlies I arrange. Whats happened and can I fix this without losing this current save?

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[quote name='Reccy']I understand what you are saying, but on this scale no, between 15.1 and 15.3 is something which makes no difference, but between 15 and 14 yes, as it has changed significantly to warranty a noticable arrow, or something similar.

Not that i mind them, i just see them all the time now on most of me players.[/QUOTE]

well technically speaking going from 14-15 is going from 14.9 to 15.0 so that .1 of a difference is important at any point in the scale.

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[quote name='milnerpoint']Well you have already contradicted what you said in your first post,

[I]Regarding reputation, there seems to be an unfortunate knock-on effect there as well. There's sort of a dead-lock if you start out with low reputation! If you do well the club's reputation will increase along with yours in an apparent dead-even manner, so there is no way to gain respect among the players! If you don't do that well, the reputation of both you and the club will stay the same[/I]

with,

[I]I will overtake them given that I start to win stuff[/I]

:)

Also in your post you dont say the players dont respect you in the third season, you say they play with a lot of nerves, which is a different problem to players not responding to your team talks. Players can like you and still play nervously, that is most likely caused by over achieving the year before and your players being under more pressure.[/QUOTE]

I will overtake them when I turn World Class, well those who aren't world class themselves then. It seems to be necessary to have like 1000 points more reputation than the players to have them listen to you... So what happens when I have 9500 rep and so does the club? :s

... which brings me to the other thing you said: it is a problem precisely because they aren't responding when I tell them to relax :)

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[quote name='PaulC']Of course its achievable, just not easy to sustain for as long.[/QUOTE]

It sounds really interesting, I just have to try a season asap.

Thx

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[quote name='Tony7']I have not had time to play football manager recently but fancied to finally start playing the game but for some reason it didn't load up so I turned steam to offline still nothing then uninstalled steam and football manager thought I would try to do a fresh installation but now when I try to install the game it says steam needs to be online to update set to online but I don't see how I can change it now. Can anybody help me please. I have a macbook if that makes any difference.[/QUOTE]

Hi Tony - could you create a thread in the [url=http://community.sigames.com/forumdisplay.php/248-Technical-Issues-and-Crashes]Technical Issues forum[/url] please. One of our Mac experts will better serve you there.

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[quote name='milnerpoint']well technically speaking going from 14-15 is going from 14.9 to 15.0 so that .1 of a difference is important at any point in the scale.[/QUOTE]
As a former mathematics student, 14 in the game would be anything between 13.5 to 14.4 in real terms, while 15 would be between 14.5 and 15.4.

To be pedantic ;)

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[quote name='Stuart Warren']Hi Tony - could you create a thread in the [url=http://community.sigames.com/forumdisplay.php/248-Technical-Issues-and-Crashes]Technical Issues forum[/url] please. One of our Mac experts will better serve you there.[/QUOTE]

Thanks x1000000

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[quote name='milnerpoint']well technically speaking going from 14-15 is going from 14.9 to 15.0 so that .1 of a difference is important at any point in the scale.[/QUOTE]

Technically speaking going from 14.999 to 15.0 the 0.001 difference is important as well. How precise do you want it to be is the question here. If they feel the 20 point scale isn't large enough then show me the full 100 point scale. Don't clutter up my screen with arrows that only serve to confuse me.

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I think the problem with using the match odds as a guideline for team talks is they are too heavily based on reputation, and not enough on form. To use a real life example, right now both Norwich and Swansea would start as favourites in a home match against Villa, but in the game they would be heavy underdogs.

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Hi, since the 12.0.4 patch all matches in 1 round (PL, Champs League etc.) are played at the same time regardless of TV coverage. This wasnt fixed with the 12.1 patch. 'Move matches for TV' has been both checked and unchecked to try to fix but to no avail. How do I fix? Very frustrating that all games are played at 3pm on a Saturday. Thanks, Si

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That's not happening on my game, Premier League TV matches are moving to their correct time slots & CL games all KO at 19:45 UK time.

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hmmm, its crazy! all PL league games are sat 3pm or wed 7.45, with 3, 4 or even 5 on 'tv' at the same time, champs league are all played same time wed nights (all 8 groups, all 2nd rounds, QFs etc.) europa league all wed nights, fa cup games all at same time 3pm on saturdays, no idea where its come from! patch 12.0.4 did something! was fine up til that point. mind you i didnt download any other patches before then, but later patches cover all changes from previous right? so wouldnt expect it to be that

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I've not seen anyone mention this problem, your best bet is to post about this in the bugs forum & upload your save file to ftp for the guys at SI to have a look & see what is going wrong.

What you're describing does sound like the 'move matches for TV' option is not working correctly.

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[quote name='JamboJapp']Update this morning? What was it for?[/QUOTE]

Yeah, i just got a update also. What's the new features?
The version is still 12.1.1

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Steam updated dont think fm did though did it ??

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Just Steam updated not FM, there's a fix for local content deletion/download which may affect FM players though, not sure as it doesn't specify what it fixed.

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Hi SI Games and whoever may help,

My game keeps crashing around the 25th June - 8th July going into my third season....it keeps coming up with some error.

I don't have the error code as Windows likes to quickly resolve the issue and closes it before I have a chance to print screen

My drivers are up-to-date and my laptop more than meets the minimum requirements


The last time I had this EXACT issue was with Football Manager 2007 and I thought since moving on to create 2012...things like this would be sorted out...

Anyhow,

I would appreciate your support on what I should do to overcome this crash dump/error (whatever it is)

Thanks in advance

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[quote name='Mr_CEO']Hi SI Games and whoever may help,

My game keeps crashing around the 25th June - 8th July going into my third season....it keeps coming up with some error.

I don't have the error code as Windows likes to quickly resolve the issue and closes it before I have a chance to print screen

My drivers are up-to-date and my laptop more than meets the minimum requirements


The last time I had this EXACT issue was with Football Manager 2007 and I thought since moving on to create 2012...things like this would be sorted out...

Anyhow,

I would appreciate your support on what I should do to overcome this crash dump/error (whatever it is)

Thanks in advance[/QUOTE]

Have a look here and see if there's a temp fix for you [URL]http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/293926-3-seasons-in-now-crashing-and-cant-get-past-30th-June[/URL]

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[quote name='Kriss']Just Steam updated not FM, there's a fix for local content deletion/download which may affect FM players though, not sure as it doesn't specify what it fixed.[/QUOTE]

So is there anywhere we can check if this will affect Mac users?

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[quote name='milnerpoint']well technically speaking going from 14-15 is going from 14.9 to 15.0 so that .1 of a difference is important at any point in the scale.[/QUOTE]
Disagree completely. 14.9 has no effect to that particular ability. Im talking be differences to warranty the arrow. 14.1 is a 0.9 difference, 14.9 is a 0.1 difference. If this level of detail is needed, then surely it would be better to included on the attribute screen as 14.5 or 15.8 or whatever, rather than 14, 15 etc..

Or what would be better, to include the arrows, if you hover over the attribute, it tells you the EXACT rating (ie, 14.8)

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Every tiny increase changes the way the attribute will be used in the ME, even 0.1 of a change makes a difference when it comes to the ME. If you click on the attribute it will take you to a graph and you can see yourself what the increase is.

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Anyone else getting alot more crashes since the update? i am playing on a save game from the previous patch so maybe that could be it

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