Neil Brock

Football Manager 12.1.1 update *OFFICIAL* Feedback Thread

1,370 posts in this topic

At the moment I remain unaffected by any supposed negative effects of the improved morale modelling, so I'll refrain from voicing any opinions on that at this time.

I do believe however that the endless moaning about team talks is hugely unwarranted. If you're less reputable than your players they listen less, if you're more they take whatever you throw at them unless it's way out of line. That said, the effect of any team talk player reaction - as has been stated by the dev guys in here, and which have been validated on a personal level via my own experiences - is usually pretty small.

As a test, final game of the season with a team with good/very good morale and against a team I was expected to thrash I told them all that there was no pressure - which was met by a ton of complacency. I then told the individual groups that I expected a performance - resulting in a sea of red, confused players. Half time, 4-0 up. Opposite case at half time, told them not to get complacent, met with much "gained focus, seemed motivated, etc. except for the star winger (ex-Boca player, who is clearly of a higher rep than me) who was angry with that. So I got aggressive and told him I expected a performance, still angry obviously. He goes out and scores one of the two goals of the half (a cracker) and we win 6-0, the biggest win of the season.

Last year you didn't get that instant feedback for teamtalks, but now with red and green every time you say something it's far too easy for people to come on here and blame that for their bad luck or poor tactical choices or run of bad games. With added transparency to team talks it's become an easy target. However, for me the transparency has had an opposite effect whereby I now know the magnitude of the impact of team talks on match performance is far less than I believed it to be in the past.

Can anyone verify this; players responding in red in team talks is not necessarily a bad thing?

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Been playing FM for years. Huge fan of the game think brilliant things have been done to make it one of the greatest games ever.. I put hours upon hours into this game playing it (probably much more then I should) After this patch I simply stopped playing the game. It was a blast before yes the morale was a bit bugged and at times became simple but I had freedom in the transfer market, could sign coaches to any position I wanted. I usually play with Newcastle and I've never had any unrealistic achievements or transfers (trust me I've tried to sign some players that I had no chance at getting). Now I can't do anything in the transfer market, I can't sign any coaches/scouts and the morale is terrible no matter what I do with team talks, team meetings, personal talks, media handling nothing. I've started and restarted countless games just to play with it and find out if there is anything I can do and there is not. I've tried everything. I'm simply done playing until the transfer window is over and that new update comes out. It took the fun out of it and became a 2nd job. Could the game have been adjusted to increase the difficulty? Probably some tweaks here and there yes. Did the fun have to be sucked out of it? No. Some people enjoy the new updates but I do not. Not meant to complain or bash people who work on it because I know a lot of time is put into the game and if this is the direction FM is headed so be it. However, if changes aren't made in the next patch I'm simply done playing and probably won't buy FM 2013. With that said I hope improvements can be made after the January transfer window because I'm already suffering from some withdrawal.

same for me, i have dozens of hours pre update, not about 1 or 2 since and havn't played for over a week

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Improved stamina?

Perhaps. Or concentration.

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Can anyone verify this; players responding in red in team talks is not necessarily a bad thing?

Red team talk responses aren't so bad, except the "Lost confidence" one.

What's more problematic is nervousness and complacency, and those you see in the match itself. My Roma team, after doing well second season, are still not listening to me third season since I haven't won anything yet. They go into matches nervous, complacent and uninterested but I win anyways.

I often tell them to avoid complacency at half time when leading while being favourites to win, and some players always respond angrily. I have yet to see a negative effect in-match from this. Often I see the same player "looking motivated" or "playing with confidence" shortly thereafter.

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Yes I probably sound like a broken record to those paying attention but the ME in 12.1 is 99% the same as in 11.3, as stated by Kriss.

Agree with the post by Kostako about team talks; they are just one factor. However I wouldn't agree that red reaction isn't always negative - just that it may not always be negative enough to change the outcome of the result ;-)

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Edit: It seems Steam forgot to update the news. The game itself says its on the new version. Even the update history in Steam is wrong for the game.

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Red team talk responses aren't so bad, except the "Lost confidence" one.

What's more problematic is nervousness and complacency, and those you see in the match itself. My Roma team, after doing well second season, are still not listening to me third season since I haven't won anything yet. They go into matches nervous, complacent and uninterested but I win anyways.

I often tell them to avoid complacency at half time when leading while being favourites to win, and some players always respond angrily. I have yet to see a negative effect in-match from this. Often I see the same player "looking motivated" or "playing with confidence" shortly thereafter.

ty

Agree with the post by Kostako about team talks; they are just one factor. However I wouldn't agree that red reaction isn't always negative - just that it may not always be negative enough to change the outcome of the result ;-)

Sorry I find your double negatives doesn't clarify. :confused:

This is how I understand this: Red Team talks (like many other things) is just one factor and should not be considered in isolation, and can be negative thing to have. Your comment doesn't say if it is sometimes OK (or desirable) to have a Red response sometimes.

For example, if you praise your players too much, their moral would be great but their complacency would increase...

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Since the patch I have been unable to manually change individual setpiece instructions to whatever I like, its gone back to only allowing me to swap instructions between players. Any idea why or how I go back to how it was before?

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Do you have a very young team? I found that a young defence would often fold in the last ten minutes and that I needed a two goal cushion to be sure of the win. Now they are maturing, late goals are becoming a rarity.
Perhaps. Or concentration.
Improved stamina?

Well its Rio & Vidic at the back, couldn't get a better pairing than that really, the amount of last minute goals being conceded is crazy.

Like I said, its since Steam updated my game to 12.1 (its the same save game).

I'm not going to bother playing FM12 until the next patch, then I'll give it another try, I'm sick to death of all this faffing around. And if I'm still not satisfied then I think I'll not bother purchasing next years version.

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Since the patch I have been unable to manually change individual setpiece instructions to whatever I like, its gone back to only allowing me to swap instructions between players. Any idea why or how I go back to how it was before?

Set the instruction for one player, untick the box, set the same instruction for another player and tick the box of the first player again. Now both players should be on the same instruction.

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Just out of curiosity, when (roughly) is the next patch/update due for release?

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Well its Rio & Vidic at the back, couldn't get a better pairing than that really, the amount of last minute goals being conceded is crazy.

Like I said, its since Steam updated my game to 12.1 (its the same save game).

I'm not going to bother playing FM12 until the next patch, then I'll give it another try, I'm sick to death of all this faffing around. And if I'm still not satisfied then I think I'll not bother purchasing next years version.

stevemc, my post was a direct response to wwfan and not a comment on your situation. :)

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Set the instruction for one player, untick the box, set the same instruction for another player and tick the box of the first player again. Now both players should be on the same instruction.

Thanks for the reply, however thats not working, its still swapping the instruction with the other player

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I just went to start up Football Manager 2012 i not got round to playing it for a while but loaded up with no problems before but now in my stream application despite it saying ready to play and preparing to launch football manager nothing is coming up despite it saying last time I played it was today.

In the past I would get a screen with a menu start new game load a game settings etc but this isn't appearing, any ideas why not?

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I just went to start up Football Manager 2012 i not got round to playing it for a while but loaded up with no problems before but now in my stream application despite it saying ready to play and preparing to launch football manager nothing is coming up despite it saying last time I played it was today.

In the past I would get a screen with a menu start new game load a game settings etc but this isn't appearing, any ideas why not?

In Task Manager, is it running in Processes but not Programs?

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In Task Manager, is it running in Processes but not Programs?

On my mac I go to Activity Monitor steam is running but no football manager but when I try quit Football Manager it says please close Football Manager before exiting Steam.

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Yep im back again with another problem with this patch. Started a new career, 1st game of the season game finishes 1-1, however it shows i lost the game 2-0 but the score shows as 1-1 on latest scores. Team talk at the end of the match says go easy on the players after the defeat, WTF???. I then try to proceed with the game and it wont let me move off the screen. I cant go on holiday because i get a little message saying i cant holiday during a game despite the game finishing. I am fuming, the older patch had very few errors this new patch is just riddled with them.

Once upon time you could choose what patch you wanted to run on a new game, why is this not an option anymore? Yet again we are let down by a paltry unfinished version of football manager which has been evident for the past 3 years.

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On my mac I go to Activity Monitor steam is running but no football manager but when I try quit Football Manager it says please close Football Manager before exiting Steam.

Well I have no clue about Mac but it should be possible to shut down the process that is evidently running stilll. If not you will have to restart the machine.

In any case, what I discovered was the problem when I got that exact thing happening, was that my video card was not installed at all (win7 recently installed on a new harddrive). But does Mac have video cards and drivers? I think it is a local hardware or software issue rather than a steam issue.

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Yep im back again with another problem with this patch. Started a new career, 1st game of the season game finishes 1-1, however it shows i lost the game 2-0 but the score shows as 1-1 on latest scores. Team talk at the end of the match says go easy on the players after the defeat, WTF???. I then try to proceed with the game and it wont let me move off the screen. I cant go on holiday because i get a little message saying i cant holiday during a game despite the game finishing. I am fuming, the older patch had very few errors this new patch is just riddled with them.

Once upon time you could choose what patch you wanted to run on a new game, why is this not an option anymore? Yet again we are let down by a paltry unfinished version of football manager which has been evident for the past 3 years.

I've seen this reported a number of times in the bug forum. Hopefully, this will be corrected next patch.

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I am not able to update my game to 12.1.1. Currently, I am using 12.1.0 and my steam client is in online mode. But, it is not updated automatically. How can I update my game?

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Haven't read the thread so sorry if it's been mentioned but free kicks are still not going in enough for me.

This is the stats from last season:

ligue1orangestatsteamst.png

I don't know how this compares to real life but it must be much, much worse.

Other's in the thread have stated they're seeing few DFK's go in.

Cheers :)

So is there any chance free kicks shall be improved?

They're literally worthless to me at the moment despite having amazing free kick takers such as Douglas Costa.

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Can somebody please tell me why only about.. 3 or 4 decent scouts are willing to sign for Newcastle after the update? People who would sign for a championship team but not a premier league? Is it only Newcastle or is it broken for other teams?

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So is there any chance free kicks shall be improved?

They're literally worthless to me at the moment despite having amazing free kick takers such as Douglas Costa.

Been a problem for ages in FM :(

I'm currently playing a network game with my brother and in 3seasons (on 12.1.1) neither of us had scored a single freekick, and i hadn't had one scored against me either. Then the last time we played each other Gylfi Sigurdsson scored 2 in the same match to help me beat him 2-1, needless to say he wasn't too pleased :D

But it's a bit ridiculous how a player like Sigurdsson has only scored 2 in 3seasons considering the amount he must have taken in that time.

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It is indeed ridiculous.

I'm now at the point where I'm sick of seeing kick takers sky it over despite having excellent attributes for the role so I've now decided to set my free kick option to 'Best Header', will see how this goes.

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It is indeed ridiculous.

I'm now at the point where I'm sick of seeing kick takers sky it over despite having excellent attributes for the role so I've now decided to set my free kick option to 'Best Header', will see how this goes.

Try Far Post with default attacking free kick settings.

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Oh SI you better produce the goods in the next patch. Ive gone back to CM0102 for the time being

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Try Far Post with default attacking free kick settings.

You sure? Is this some sort of exploit? ;)

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Can somebody please tell me why only about.. 3 or 4 decent scouts are willing to sign for Newcastle after the update? People who would sign for a championship team but not a premier league? Is it only Newcastle or is it broken for other teams?

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Then the last time we played each other Gylfi Sigurdsson scored 2 in the same match to help me beat him 2-1, needless to say he wasn't too pleased :D

Ah, Gylfi! On FM 2010 I saw a match report popping up in which he appeared on the score sheet. I watched the goal in the highlights and of course it was scored from a direct free kick. :-D

The number of goals scored (dunno about the conversion rate, which is something entirelly different...) from DFKs in FM is lower than in real-life, but I think both the popular influence on the perception of sports of rather glorified sims of the real sports such as FIFA and PES as well as human habit to only remember the memorable has lead many to believe direct free kicks would be converted more often than they actually are: http://enbsports.blogspot.com/2011/09/2010-2011-la-liga-direct-free-kick.html I've also seen somebody linking to this article in another thread: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2329651/Premier-League-The-season-so-far.html

On my current save, I have the big leagues simulated on full detail, and half-way through the season there is a total number of goals scored from DFKs between 12 and 18 each, actually. As for single teams, Liverpool scored the most with four (end of January), though I'm not sure who takes them - it isn't Charlie Adam however, despite having the best FK stat in their squad. And on my first FM 2012 save, which was last saved in April in-game time, the number of direct free kicks scored varied from 14 to 23 by that time of the season across the leagues each, with multiple teams converting 2 or more. In Germany, I'm usually also simulating the lower divisions in full detail, and the stats in 2. Bundesliga look comparable. So, as evident of that Ligue 1 season finish shot, the number can be far lower in the game, but at least personally I have yet seen that to happen. Until then, with the number of leagues and saves I did filter, this looks like the extreme oddity to me rather than being representative for your average FM number of direct free kicks converted into goals.

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For example, if you praise your players too much, their moral would be great but their complacency would increase...

Eh?

How on earth does great morale equal more complacency?

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Over confidence?

Just saying like ;-)

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I don't know what people are really complaining about.This last update did really change a lot for me too but...It is true i score less too as some people here complained but the average number of points i get per month remains very much the same.The players are finally moving around the pitch as they are supposed to.If you ask me tactics new give more accurate results(the way the team plays).

For me there are only 2 big issues that remain-injury time...me or the AI makes a goal scoring attack and the refferee blows fulltime?!

The other one is when players(both player and AI ) receive direct red cards in the middle of the pitch.On the other side when the last deffender takes down a striker he gets yellow only or even no card.

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Eh?

How on earth does great morale equal more complacency?

If you read it again you will see that he says 'too much praise' may increase complacency, not 'great morale'

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Yes I probably sound like a broken record to those paying attention but the ME in 12.1 is 99% the same as in 11.3, as stated by Kriss.

Agree with the post by Kostako about team talks; they are just one factor. However I wouldn't agree that red reaction isn't always negative - just that it may not always be negative enough to change the outcome of the result ;-)

:D Do you also help write parts of the manual?

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Just loooking at my Editor and its still saying IM on version 12.0.0, Ive logged into Steam and its saying Im up to date. This is wrong though surely

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My guess would be as there have been no data updates the database stays at 12.0.0.

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SI, is there a future plan of another update for FM12?

Thanks

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There may be another game update but no date has been set.

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There may be another game update but no date has been set.

Thanks, is that update for the January Transfer Window (ie, player movements etc), or to patch up the game, or both?

Cheers

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While your're here. Paul, any word on a possible fix relating to players going unmarked at throw-ins? I seem to be noticing this much more after the latest update.

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While your're here. Paul, any word on a possible fix relating to players going unmarked at throw-ins? I seem to be noticing this much more after the latest update.

I'll be honest, its unlikely. I imagine its an annoyance but not fundamental enough to be deemed "must fix" for 12.2.

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You're right that it's annoying but at least it's such a fundamental flaw that it actually achieves balance by affecting both human & AI controlled teams.

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I doubt that this is intentional: But I'm the kind of manager who sometimes wants to put pressure on opposing key players via the media. I'd often check their conversation history for public news that hint at them crumbling under pressure, and then try to apply the same. However, it appears that on the conversation history screen there is something going wrong. If you click on the tab, often times you suddenly get to see the last conversation that took place, even if it didn't take place in public, but in private, such as this one.

Otherwise, my save is going awesome, sadly my holidays are over. ;) I like that the extreme ends of morale were tweaked, in particular as the permanent "superb morale" boost made my team in FM 2011 overachieve in every season without effort due to the boost that came with short series of good results (sometimes less), and even as the cheapest team of the league I entered, I never had a relegation battle due to weaker AI clubs being permanently stuck in "abysmal morale" rut endlessly, making them getting results so bad you couldn't possibly compete. I'm sure the player/staff/interaction might produce some quirky conversations, but when they gel, they gel hard. Coming from a national manager save previously, I also like that the AI teams seem to be more aware of their talent, and that I have to pay some real money if I want to sign them - that is, if the club even decides to enter a negotiation rather than denying any offer straight away. So far I'm only relying on scout reports, stats of fully simulated popular competitions, news and agents, testing if I can go by without the all-knowing "player search", which means most of my targets are from the bigger leagues. Even English keepers are being simulated in fitting fashion. ;)

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According to genie scout my game now has a whopping 116,000 players in it all of a sudden despite me starting with 60-70k, I'm in April 2014 so this means players haven't retired but even so, can anyone explain this? This has only just appeared, before I had a normal rate.

Is this due to too many regens coming in or what? Or is it just a glitch in the programming potentially?

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I don't have such an issue - started with 42000, have 43000 in 2023.

Anyway, PaulC can you or any of your colleagues please take a look at the following two threads:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/294063-Regens-are-too-good-yes-another-one.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/293920-Too-many-good-regens-from-average-footballing-nations.

I and some others believe this system is very distorted and needs fixing. Can we have some feedback from SI's point of view as we are observing quite strange things happening with newgens. Thanks

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