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What stats do you need Cleon? Just key passes?

Please if you could :)

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Just started up my 4th season with QPR (finished 14th, 14th, 8th) 3 games in I have 1 win, 1 draw, 1 loss after going ahead first in all 3 games.

The focus for me this season is to improve the defence and to "grind out" more results as I have no problems with scoring goals - so Ive been paying attention to the match statistics. I noticed that both my full backs are making 6.x tackles per games while my centre backs are only making 2.x - I assume this is down to one or more of the following:

1) My formation, a 4-3-1-2 is as follows:

----------P(a)-----DLF(a)-----

-------------AM(a)------------

----MC(s)---BWM(d)--DLP(s)--

DL(s)---DC(d)---DC(d)---DR(s)

--------------GK(d)-----------

My basic assumption is that the AI is setting out to play down our flanks, therefore the full backs are making more tackles because the opponent is attacking them more often than the central defensive players. Watching the games, this appears to be the case. The game I lost, we were esecially bombarded with crosses.

Could be more to do with the shape the AI uses too.

1.1) Put my BWM on the right of the midfield three, and set him and the MC(s) to high closing down so they will try to act as a first line of protection

for the full back

1.2) Play with 2 defensive DMs with high closing down so they can protect their respective side - this leaves my MC(s) by himself and I don't like how

that shape would look.

BWM's already have high closing down to begin with though.

If you change the BWM to be on the right of the 3 then you might find this unbalances the midfield more and makes it easier to exploit you through the middle. The fact that you don't really have a defensive midfielder will mean against teams who play a AMC you'll struggle to mark him in the game as he'll play in to much space. What I'd do is rather have a DLP on defend in the middle of the 3 as they offer more protection than the BWM due to the BWM's agressive closing down.

2) My full backs are committing to tackles too much, either through PPMs or player instructions. In this case should I set them to Easy tackling and attempt to train them to stay on their feet?

The key point here is; are they winning the tackles? If so then its not an issue. If they are missing far to many then it would be an issue. Easy tackling will make them only tackle when they are confident they'll win the ball. Are you sure its not a closing down, tight marking or mentality issue?

Both sides my full backs are well rounded with 15s in all the 'key attributes' (except crossing) the game highlights for full backs (they are M'Bengue and Zimmermann) so I dont think its due to them being bad players - seems more of a tactical problem.

I'm not familiar with the players you mention. But what do you class as the key attributes? It might differ from the role you actually want them to play compared to how you've instructed them to play.

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Please if you could :)

John Fleck - 26 (19 starts/13 sub app.)

Luis Calado (newgen) - 21 (19 starts/14 sub app.)

Sergio Canales - 18 (20 starts/2 sub apps.)

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John Fleck - 26 (19 starts/13 sub app.)

Luis Calado (newgen) - 21 (19 starts/14 sub app.)

Sergio Canales - 18 (20 starts/2 sub apps.)

Excellent cheers :)

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I had a fun season with the 4-2-3-1: a domestic treble and narrowly eliminated from the CL quarter finals. Its just unfortunate that my CF suffered a broken leg midway through the season (against Aberdeen - who else?) and he wasn't able to continue his goalscoring form. Fortunately I had a young talented striker on hand to replace him, and he ended up finishing as top goalscorer. This season my front three are in absolutely devastating form. I moved my replacement CF from last season out to AMR and he's scored 10 in 16, while my AML, who was on loan last season, has scored 8 in 14. In the CF spot I have a striker who was not only away on loan last season, but was someone I was actively looking to sell because of his bad attitude. Nevertheless, he's managed to restore my faith in him by scoring 10 in 15, including some important CL goals.

I'm also happy to note that John Fleck is having a much better season at AMC, though I'm not entirely sure why.

Do you think it matters which of my inside forwards are on support duty? Only reason I put him on the right was so that he didn't end up occupying the same space as my DLP, but then the DLP has RFD rarely anyway. :-\

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I had to post this. Hope it's ok.

Playing the game your way, well my way but based on what you do, I have recently had a lot more fun playing and good success. Admiting I used someone else's tactic through the first three seasons of my career, I was getting bored, but it was the simpler way to play since I play most at work (shame on me). Or so I thought. It isn't that hard to play your formations and ideas. In fact, like many of you "gurus" defend, keeping simple will make it more successful. And in fact it did. I reached a 3rd place in China with a reletively weak tianjin team in my first season and the champions league quarter finals in my second, leaving after that and joining Changchun for only 6 games, but with 5 wins and 1 draw, raising from 8th to 6th.

But my reason to post in here is this next match. Last (in game) year I took over Algeria. My last match, before this one, saw us beating Russia 1-0 and now I have to face Spain.

Algeria.jpg

image host

Ok, I know I lost the match and it was a friendly. But i kept Spain away from my goal for most of the time. And they only had one clear cut chance, which was not the play that originated their goal. It was a really awful game from my team, with no beauty at all, but, for most of time, it was effective. I was happy to steal a draw. Unfortunately we lost, but I know I did the right thing and it was fun to watch Spain shooting from range and throwing crosses from one side of the box to the other.

I'm getting my fun playing back, thanks to reading your threads and others like you. Thanks Cleon.

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Hi cleon need tactical advice for my Falkirk side on 2014/2015 in SPL. I tried the 4-1-2-3 which is 2 CB 2 wing backs and 1 anchor man, 2 midfielders and 2 advanced wingers, one attacking central trequartista. I'm trying to achieve the tactic in full, i'll post some match statistics the now.

Okay so heres the game against Inverness Caledionian Thistle which i'm playing the formation and somehow they manage to beat me by counter attacking the defence.

Note which i play a high defensive line with offside trap ticked. So heres the tactic in detail for you.

Falkirk Tactic

ee1ZW.jpg

Inverness Passing play sorry it's a lot of blobs.

iwdAS.jpg

Falkirk Passing Play

XtN84.jpg

Matchday Statistics

bAP5I.jpg

Sorry for the big images and this is my first tactical post so please give me advice on how to make this tactic work on my team. Because now were having poor performance by getting draws on the last 20 minutes in the game. I give every detail you need to see what are the flaws are. Thankyou and would like to hear you're responses.

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I Decided to take a walk on the Cleon Side today and play the game as she does.

Now i know why she does it, I was watching every game on full reply "watching" being the operative word and i was noticing nothing.

After deciding to make a change i noticed things i was oblivious to previously.

Cleon keep up the good work i can't imagine this forum without you.

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I had a fun season with the 4-2-3-1: a domestic treble and narrowly eliminated from the CL quarter finals. Its just unfortunate that my CF suffered a broken leg midway through the season (against Aberdeen - who else?) and he wasn't able to continue his goalscoring form. Fortunately I had a young talented striker on hand to replace him, and he ended up finishing as top goalscorer. This season my front three are in absolutely devastating form. I moved my replacement CF from last season out to AMR and he's scored 10 in 16, while my AML, who was on loan last season, has scored 8 in 14. In the CF spot I have a striker who was not only away on loan last season, but was someone I was actively looking to sell because of his bad attitude. Nevertheless, he's managed to restore my faith in him by scoring 10 in 15, including some important CL goals.

I'm also happy to note that John Fleck is having a much better season at AMC, though I'm not entirely sure why.

Do you think it matters which of my inside forwards are on support duty? Only reason I put him on the right was so that he didn't end up occupying the same space as my DLP, but then the DLP has RFD rarely anyway. :-\

The DLP shouldn't be getting in the way of the inside forward or vice versa, there should be a decent amount of space between those poistions.

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I had to post this. Hope it's ok.

Playing the game your way, well my way but based on what you do, I have recently had a lot more fun playing and good success. Admiting I used someone else's tactic through the first three seasons of my career, I was getting bored, but it was the simpler way to play since I play most at work (shame on me). Or so I thought. It isn't that hard to play your formations and ideas. In fact, like many of you "gurus" defend, keeping simple will make it more successful. And in fact it did. I reached a 3rd place in China with a reletively weak tianjin team in my first season and the champions league quarter finals in my second, leaving after that and joining Changchun for only 6 games, but with 5 wins and 1 draw, raising from 8th to 6th.

But my reason to post in here is this next match. Last (in game) year I took over Algeria. My last match, before this one, saw us beating Russia 1-0 and now I have to face Spain.

Algeria.jpg

image host

Ok, I know I lost the match and it was a friendly. But i kept Spain away from my goal for most of the time. And they only had one clear cut chance, which was not the play that originated their goal. It was a really awful game from my team, with no beauty at all, but, for most of time, it was effective. I was happy to steal a draw. Unfortunately we lost, but I know I did the right thing and it was fun to watch Spain shooting from range and throwing crosses from one side of the box to the other.

I'm getting my fun playing back, thanks to reading your threads and others like you. Thanks Cleon.

Cheers, I'm glad what I wrote was some use for you and been able to help you in your own saves :)

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Hi cleon need tactical advice for my Falkirk side on 2014/2015 in SPL. I tried the 4-1-2-3 which is 2 CB 2 wing backs and 1 anchor man, 2 midfielders and 2 advanced wingers, one attacking central trequartista. I'm trying to achieve the tactic in full, i'll post some match statistics the now.

Okay so heres the game against Inverness Caledionian Thistle which i'm playing the formation and somehow they manage to beat me by counter attacking the defence.

Note which i play a high defensive line with offside trap ticked. So heres the tactic in detail for you.

Falkirk Tactic

ee1ZW.jpg

Inverness Passing play sorry it's a lot of blobs.

iwdAS.jpg

Falkirk Passing Play

XtN84.jpg

Matchday Statistics

bAP5I.jpg

Sorry for the big images and this is my first tactical post so please give me advice on how to make this tactic work on my team. Because now were having poor performance by getting draws on the last 20 minutes in the game. I give every detail you need to see what are the flaws are. Thankyou and would like to hear you're responses.

Did the opposition use an AMC? if so then I imagine he did the damage inbetween the midfield and the centrebacks as you don't have much cover there at all to deal with either a AMC or a striker who drops off the front and drops deep.

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I Decided to take a walk on the Cleon Side today and play the game as she does.

Now i know why she does it, I was watching every game on full reply "watching" being the operative word and i was noticing nothing.

After deciding to make a change i noticed things i was oblivious to previously.

Cleon keep up the good work i can't imagine this forum without you.

After a while you'll be able to watch just the opening stages of a game and you'll get a feel of how the game will go and be able to sort things out quicker.

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Cheers, I'm glad what I wrote was some use for you and been able to help you in your own saves :)

Yeah, it's helping me to, at least, enjoy the game a lot more. Though I do not win all the games, or almost all, like you do, I enjoy this way much more than just pressing the "continue" button all the time.

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I was wondering, how do you see Real Madrid's real life tactic in the game, and I'm interested in the front 4. Ronaldo and Di Maria sometimes act like inside forwards but usually they play with their stronger foot outside and that doesn't make sense, also Ozil looks like an Advanced Playmaker with a support duty? And finally the striker is Poacher or Adv forward?

I'm trying to recreate their play style in FM 2012 after having some success in 2011, but the counter attacks seem much less effective and can't make players to play more through balls :<

However my question remains: their roles?

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I was wondering, how do you see Real Madrid's real life tactic in the game, and I'm interested in the front 4. Ronaldo and Di Maria sometimes act like inside forwards but usually they play with their stronger foot outside and that doesn't make sense, also Ozil looks like an Advanced Playmaker with a support duty? And finally the striker is Poacher or Adv forward?

I'm trying to recreate their play style in FM 2012 after having some success in 2011, but the counter attacks seem much less effective and can't make players to play more through balls :<

However my question remains: their roles?

No idea not watched them play in about 2 years.

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The DLP shouldn't be getting in the way of the inside forward or vice versa, there should be a decent amount of space between those poistions.

Yer right - I was just being paranoid again. :D

Btw, after going back and reading over some of your posts again I've become a convert to the DLF(a) role, using it towards the end of last season and in the beginning of my current season. I find that my AMC is much more influential now that my CF is a little bit more reserved and a little bit less selfish. I certainly can't argue with the results, as it helped me to secure my third Champions League trophy in nine seasons.

So, uh, thanks for teaching this old dog some new tricks. :D

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Yer right - I was just being paranoid again. :D

Btw, after going back and reading over some of your posts again I've become a convert to the DLF(a) role, using it towards the end of last season and in the beginning of my current season. I find that my AMC is much more influential now that my CF is a little bit more reserved and a little bit less selfish. I certainly can't argue with the results, as it helped me to secure my third Champions League trophy in nine seasons.

So, uh, thanks for teaching this old dog some new tricks. :D

Glad to have helped :)

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Some great posts there and some great advice for players. I find I have neither the time nor the inclination to watch any of the game, just play with the split/view summary screen for all matches. Whilst i'm aware that this obviously detracts from the granularity of the game and the tactical possibilities, I find I get my share of successes. I'm finding I can counter/over run the majority of formations using my 4-1-2-2-1 apart from the "Everton" 4-4-1-1. I've literally no idea how to combat it, its hard to spread the play wider and focus on the middle (what I do for 4-4-2 formations, thanks to Cleon's suggestions in this thread) or play down the flanks and be slightly narrower to suffocate their midfield 3.

Any suggestions on how to combat this formation using my formation above?

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Cleon, or any one

help me what incorrect in game with MU,pls

a terrible lost :(

http://www.mediafire.com/?awy9k5vag5w5r5w

You can't just randomly post in a thread with no detailed post and expect anyone to help you. I'm sorry but if you cannot be arsed to put any effort into asking for help and been as detailed as you can, then I wont be helping you. I simply don't have the time

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A little something I've been trying lately to help me prepare for games is to check the opposition’s manager profile stating their preferred formation, closing down style, marking style and playing mentality.

I think its helped me as I’m unbeaten in my last 8 games with Sevilla (6 wins and 2 draws), however I was wondering what shouts or alterations people would make if for example they knew the opposition were going to heavily press and close you down. My approach has been to reduce time wasting and increase tempo.

My next thought regarding marking style would be to have players roaming and switching positions if a team is playing a man marking style, or if playing zonal marking I may need to try and overload a area or particular defender. However I’m not sure how best to achieve this in FM. An idea would be to possibly select Inside forwards on the flanks whilst also playing with an Advanced forward or Poacher up front trying to flood the usual 2 centre backs with 3 of my players.

Just something I’m trying at the moment and there’s going to be alot of trial and error so if anybody has any thoughts or advice on this it would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

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Just a quick update. I've had a fair bit of success by setting up my team depending what the oppositions manageril style is shown in their profile. If they close down I reduce time wasting and increase tempo so not to get caught in possession. If they stand off i'd do the opposite. If they play short passing i'll heavily close them down, if they play long I'll drop deeper.

Now with the marking systems I've found that against Man marking systems more roaming works a treat, however Zonal marking is currently my cryptonite. I'v tried to oveload areas of the pitch as stated above but I haven't had much success, so if anybody has any ideas I'd be glad to try them!

Thanks!

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First of all, I love Cleon's threads and think you are a credit to the community. I have them all bookmarked and read but unfortunately I'm still rubbish when it comes to the tactical side of this game :(

I've only just started creating my own tactics this year after using downloaded ones in the past and only watching key highlights. When trying to observe goings on in the ME and be a reactive manager using my own tactics (full match 15 mins/extended highlights) I find it so difficult spot things during a match. I guess I'm so used to using other people's tactics and not really analysing matches, I used to just watch matches for entertainment purposes really and let the downloaded tactics assist me and my team. I want to continue using my own tactics but the downside for me is that the season is taking so long to complete now but that is to be expected at first I guess.

I'm 2nd in my 1st season as PSG which isn't great, I'm 3 points behind Marseille with around 28 games played. I try my best to pay attention and react and make changes during games but I feel like I'm guessing at times and sometimes it totally backfires on me. It doesn't help that I'm such an indecisive person/OCD in nearly every situation in life and I'm always changing my mind! I've probably went back and forth between 4231 and 41221 about 7 times during the season! I've also switched between philosophy/strategies a few times as well. I have switched player roles quite a bit too :o Obviously it doesn't help but I just want to find something that works. Again I guess that is another sign of the downloaded tactics mentality that I'm used to. I know every game is different and there is never the one solution but I struggle tbh.

I think my last hope is to pay more attention to the analysis tab as I was reading over your analysis tab section again and noticed you said: "Even if you don’t know how to spot things in game, you should be able to easily identify issues on this part of the game. It really is black and white and does exactly as it says it does."

That sentence has given me some renewed hope in turning things around but I know I also have to try and cut out my old habits, like being so indecisive etc.

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Cleon, do you use the same approach for pre-season games? Watching first 15 mins in full and the rest on extended highlights?

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Cleon, do you use the same approach for pre-season games? Watching first 15 mins in full and the rest on extended highlights?

Not really, pre season is about fitness and team cohesion rather than tactics and results.

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Thanks, was wondering 'cause thought that would get a bit boring! Btw the links for Swansea save games don't work anymore, was going to give your methods a try between now and

FM13!

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Just wondering if its just me or not but when one plays with 3 at the back, having 3 CBs tight in the middle doesnt seem to produce as much results as a FB,CB,FB combination. The former seem to play a bit too close to each other without covering the wider space when the WBs or Wide midfielders have gone forward. Am I right?

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Just wondering if its just me or not but when one plays with 3 at the back, having 3 CBs tight in the middle doesnt seem to produce as much results as a FB,CB,FB combination. The former seem to play a bit too close to each other without covering the wider space when the WBs or Wide midfielders have gone forward. Am I right?

Yes its a known ME issue :)

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Glad to have that cleared up cause its been hell trying to form a back 3 system that can work with relative success, getting inspired by Juventus and Napoli.

I have read your thoughts and application on Santos. Is that possibly the best basis to study a back 3 system or would you suggest something else too?

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Glad to have that cleared up cause its been hell trying to form a back 3 system that can work with relative success, getting inspired by Juventus and Napoli.

I have read your thoughts and application on Santos. Is that possibly the best basis to study a back 3 system or would you suggest something else too?

Imo the DL/DR/DC set up is the best you can get for a back 3 to work.

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Boom shakalaka boom! Thought u may read this thread more often ;-) Who knows me time could be soon for a return from my prolonged abstinence from FM

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Boom shakalaka boom! Thought u may read this thread more often ;-) Who knows me time could be soon for a return from my prolonged abstinence from FM

I really hope so, be good to see you knocking around again. You not been playing FM at all? :)

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I really hope so, be good to see you knocking around again. You not been playing FM at all? :)
yeah tbh mostly FM Handheld cos thats really the only time i have when i am on the move..then i busted both kneecaps trying to run a marathon..was out for like 2 months..ended up going 8/8 HM DS, dragged a guild from non raiding to hardcore raiding and vaulted them up the server rankings. Been bz @ work as well; hope ur food is better..omg and ackter is now a MOD? rotflmao..for that reason alone i have to come back and play the game lol.

So much has changed..so yeah i may just pick up the game and give it a good whack. Yeah don think i can be involved in beta development anymore..don have the time, but i plan to drop by more often now..fingers crossed the fiancee doesnt blow a gasket. Hope all is well with ya too, and this time when i fly into london i will catch up with more ppl instead of just Ackter

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First of all, I love Cleon's threads and think you are a credit to the community. I have them all bookmarked and read but unfortunately I'm still rubbish when it comes to the tactical side of this game :(

I've only just started creating my own tactics this year after using downloaded ones in the past and only watching key highlights. When trying to observe goings on in the ME and be a reactive manager using my own tactics (full match 15 mins/extended highlights) I find it so difficult spot things during a match. I guess I'm so used to using other people's tactics and not really analysing matches, I used to just watch matches for entertainment purposes really and let the downloaded tactics assist me and my team. I want to continue using my own tactics but the downside for me is that the season is taking so long to complete now but that is to be expected at first I guess.

I'm 2nd in my 1st season as PSG which isn't great, I'm 3 points behind Marseille with around 28 games played. I try my best to pay attention and react and make changes during games but I feel like I'm guessing at times and sometimes it totally backfires on me. It doesn't help that I'm such an indecisive person/OCD in nearly every situation in life and I'm always changing my mind! I've probably went back and forth between 4231 and 41221 about 7 times during the season! I've also switched between philosophy/strategies a few times as well. I have switched player roles quite a bit too :o Obviously it doesn't help but I just want to find something that works. Again I guess that is another sign of the downloaded tactics mentality that I'm used to. I know every game is different and there is never the one solution but I struggle tbh.

I think my last hope is to pay more attention to the analysis tab as I was reading over your analysis tab section again and noticed you said: "Even if you don’t know how to spot things in game, you should be able to easily identify issues on this part of the game. It really is black and white and does exactly as it says it does."

That sentence has given me some renewed hope in turning things around but I know I also have to try and cut out my old habits, like being so indecisive etc.

Update - I finally managed to settle on the 4231 and won the league on goal difference (+7) :) It was hard but worth it in the end, our form really started to turn around and I went on a 17 game unbeaten run from January until the end of the season which was the reason why we ended up winning the league.

The more games I watch, the better I'm becoming at making tactical changes and noticing when things need changing. I was close to giving up at one point and would have settled for 3rd but I'm glad I stuck at it as I was rewarded with success in the end :D I hope to build on this league win with hopefully improved performances in Europe and the domestic cups in my 2nd season. I scored a fair few but conceded too much for liking in my 1st season so I'll be looking for a resolution to that also.

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yeah tbh mostly FM Handheld cos thats really the only time i have when i am on the move..then i busted both kneecaps trying to run a marathon..was out for like 2 months..ended up going 8/8 HM DS, dragged a guild from non raiding to hardcore raiding and vaulted them up the server rankings. Been bz @ work as well; hope ur food is better..omg and ackter is now a MOD? rotflmao..for that reason alone i have to come back and play the game lol.

So much has changed..so yeah i may just pick up the game and give it a good whack. Yeah don think i can be involved in beta development anymore..don have the time, but i plan to drop by more often now..fingers crossed the fiancee doesnt blow a gasket. Hope all is well with ya too, and this time when i fly into london i will catch up with more ppl instead of just Ackter

Ackter rocks :cool: And yeah when you're here this time gimme a heads up :)

I'm guessing you'll like the look of FM13 then if you play FMH?

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Update - I finally managed to settle on the 4231 and won the league on goal difference (+7) :) It was hard but worth it in the end, our form really started to turn around and I went on a 17 game unbeaten run from January until the end of the season which was the reason why we ended up winning the league.

The more games I watch, the better I'm becoming at making tactical changes and noticing when things need changing. I was close to giving up at one point and would have settled for 3rd but I'm glad I stuck at it as I was rewarded with success in the end :D I hope to build on this league win with hopefully improved performances in Europe and the domestic cups in my 2nd season. I scored a fair few but conceded too much for liking in my 1st season so I'll be looking for a resolution to that also.

It's daunting at first when watching games but with time and a little bit of patience you begin to notice things that are going wrong and with a little bit of experimentation you can fix majority of them with ease. If you make a note of what the changes did and how they played out after a while you build up a sort of catalogue of changes in your head for certain types of scenarios. So the more you change the easier it becomes and is almost 2nd nature. Soon you'll be making changes without even knowing you've done them or before an event actually happens because you have a feeling it'll happen.

I'm glad you stuck it out though as it does feel rewarding especially if you was on the brink of quitting :)

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I actually missed playing the game..honestly dont even know what the game looks like apart from FMH tbh, but yeah gonna get it when it comes out..kinda tired of WoW

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Hello. I'm playing a 4231 with Man Utd, and I'm just wondering how I can get my AMC more involved. I want the AMC to play as a goal scoring midfielder.

GK - Def - De Gea

DR - FB Sup - Rafael

DC - CB Def - Rio

DC - CB Def - Vidic

DL - FB Sup - Evra

MCr - DLP Def - Carrick

MCl - CM Sup - Sandro/Fletcher

AMR - W Sup - Valencia

AMC - AP Sup - Rooney

AML W Att - Kagawa

FC - AF A - RVP

Rigid, Control. Short passing, more expressive, press more, more roaming.

No playmaker (I think this may need changing).

I welcome any advice on my tactic, but my question is how to get more from Rooney (AMC position as a whole).

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For the new FM13 stuff I've done, would people prefer a new thread or to carry on the main thread for this? The stuff I wrote in the main thread is still all relevant so I'm not sure. What do you guys/gals think? :)

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Personally a new stickied thread. One thats easy to find and in your face :thup::D

Would it also be possible to sticky the shout guide? Think its extremely helpful

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The shouts were stickied for the past year and half :)

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The shouts were stickied for the past year and half :)

They are (were) :eek: ?!

In my defence ive never created my tactic up until Fm13 so wouldnt have bothered looking :p

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