Cleon Posted March 26, 2012 Author Share Posted March 26, 2012 I've updated the thread and added a bit about shouts for all those of you who are confused about when/how you should use them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimness Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Check out the shouts posts I've just done, it'll explain further once you understand what they all do Thanks a lot! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
masteR Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Thank you! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 26, 2012 Author Share Posted March 26, 2012 Thanks a lot! My DLP does hold up the ball btw, not sure what you're on about? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 26, 2012 Author Share Posted March 26, 2012 Thank you! Thank you kind sir You play in Brazil masteR? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwinsFan86 Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Just wanted to say thanks for the insights Cleon. I just had a terrific game against Chelsea doing exactly this. I noticed how high their defensive line was as they were attacking (10-15 yards inside my half), so I hit my "Counter" group of shouts (Play Narrower, Get Ball Forward, Hassle Opponents, Work Ball into Box, Pass into Space, Drop Deeper). I actually cancelled Drop Deeper because I didn't want to change my defensive line in this particular instance. As I noticed how high their line was, they equalised at 1-1 through a bit of an unlucky deflection, but I took the lead back within 5 minutes and went on to win 6-1. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 26, 2012 Author Share Posted March 26, 2012 Just wanted to say thanks for the insights Cleon. I just had a terrific game against Chelsea doing exactly this. I noticed how high their defensive line was as they were attacking (10-15 yards inside my half), so I hit my "Counter" group of shouts (Play Narrower, Get Ball Forward, Hassle Opponents, Work Ball into Box, Pass into Space, Drop Deeper). I actually cancelled Drop Deeper because I didn't want to change my defensive line in this particular instance. As I noticed how high their line was, they equalised at 1-1 through a bit of an unlucky deflection, but I took the lead back within 5 minutes and went on to win 6-1. Excellent. I'm glad you liked the insight, made it all worthwhile 6-1 is always an impressive result regardless of who you are or how good. I'm glad you've made your own group of shouts for certain scenario's it certainly does help. And as you've found out you can use them to your advantage when you spot how the AI is playing. Well done mate Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamil-S Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Haha learnt the hard way? You want the weaker defender to be the first line of defence then the better defender will be the last line of defence should be make a mistake. The last thing you want is the weaker defender as the last hope. Yeah. The last thing I want is having genius like Pepe in penalty area. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
masteR Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Thank you kind sir You play in Brazil masteR? Mostly, but I sometimes try lower European leagues too. About to start a game as Oeste since it's the only São Paulo state team in Série C. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 26, 2012 Author Share Posted March 26, 2012 Mostly, but I sometimes try lower European leagues too. About to start a game as Oeste since it's the only São Paulo state team in Série C. Nice. I'm about to start as a low Brazilian team Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
masteR Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Great, it would be awesome if you kept us updated, I had kind of given up on FM after playing it since CM99/00 but your insights made me realize the game is not as "broken" as I was once led to believe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 26, 2012 Author Share Posted March 26, 2012 Great, it would be awesome if you kept us updated, I had kind of given up on FM after playing it since CM99/00 but your insights made me realize the game is not as "broken" as I was once led to believe. I'm using PMLF's update he did yesterday. Been bugging him about low teams with good fan bases I could maybe used. He told me Sata Cruz is it? And someone that began with Py or summet I might do updates though as I love the Brazil leagues, can't manage in other countries without been bored now. If you need help with owt be sure to let me know, happy to help if I can EDIT - Paysandu the other team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
masteR Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 I'm using PMLF's update he did yesterday. Been bugging him about low teams with good fan bases I could maybe used. He told me Sata Cruz is it? And someone that began with Py or summet I might do updates though as I love the Brazil leagues, can't manage in other countries without been bored now. If you need help with owt be sure to let me know, happy to help if I can EDIT - Paysandu the other team. PMLF update? Santa Cruz and Paysandu really are your best options for largely supported lower league clubs. I'll be sure to drop a few questions here in the following days, as soon as I get this uni project done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 26, 2012 Author Share Posted March 26, 2012 PMLF update?Santa Cruz and Paysandu really are your best options for largely supported lower league clubs. I'll be sure to drop a few questions here in the following days, as soon as I get this uni project done. The bottom post in here http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/276235-Brazil-(Official)-Data-Issues Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
masteR Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Thank you very much (again)! Would never have noticed it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 26, 2012 Author Share Posted March 26, 2012 Thank you very much (again)! Would never have noticed it. No problem Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage94 Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Cleon, it'll be maybe a couple of days before I can give you an update on my save as my FM playing has left me well behind on college work and I have a lot of deadlines to meet for the end of the week so FM playing will be at a minimum. But I am off for 2 weeks after that so I'll be more active then Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 26, 2012 Author Share Posted March 26, 2012 Cleon, it'll be maybe a couple of days before I can give you an update on my save as my FM playing has left me well behind on college work and I have a lot of deadlines to meet for the end of the week so FM playing will be at a minimum. But I am off for 2 weeks after that so I'll be more active then No worries mate. I hope your game is going well And good luck with your deadlines:thup: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage94 Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 No worries mate. I hope your game is going well And good luck with your deadlines:thup: Thanks Cleon Just to let you know where I stand in the game, I'm still 3rd in the table and falling back slightly from Barca and Real but they are both having great seasons and it's difficult to be as consistent as they are. I am however 7 points clear of Sevilla in 4th which I think is pretty good going. 17 games played so almost half way there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 27, 2012 Author Share Posted March 27, 2012 Thanks Cleon Just to let you know where I stand in the game, I'm still 3rd in the table and falling back slightly from Barca and Real but they are both having great seasons and it's difficult to be as consistent as they are. I am however 7 points clear of Sevilla in 4th which I think is pretty good going. 17 games played so almost half way there. Been 3rd is very respectable especially in a league that includes Barca and Real Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee_Simpson Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I've updated the thread and added a bit about shouts for all those of you who are confused about when/how you should use them. Thanks This will be very helpful to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbobBRFC Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Just read your piece on the shouts Cleon, another very helpful piece. I did know what most of them did as they are mostly common sense. Just little things like Play out of defence affects Midfielders with a defend duty AND Defenders. What combinations do you use? I presume one for seeing out a game one for chasing a game maybe one for weaker teams one for stronger teams Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham_aka_stam Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 On the basis of "best defender as cover and other as stopper". I tend to base it almost purely on Tackling + Aggression. I don't mind my stopper making a rash challenge and giving away a freekick if he stops a quick counter, but I don't want my sweeping player taking anyone out in or around the box. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 27, 2012 Author Share Posted March 27, 2012 I might do another bit on what combinations I use later in the week if I get the time . But I don't use a vast range really normally 1 for keeping possession and 1 set for chasing a game and trying to get a result. That's basically it for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbobBRFC Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I might do another bit on what combinations I use later in the week if I get the time . But I don't use a vast range really normally 1 for keeping possession and 1 set for chasing a game and trying to get a result. That's basically it for me. Cheers Majority of the time I dont like putting loads on at once, prefer making little changes at a time. Although a keeping possesion/keeping a result would be a very useful one Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee_Simpson Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Cheers Majority of the time I dont like putting loads on at once, prefer making little changes at a time. Although a keeping possesion/keeping a result would be a very useful one Yeah I agree I look forward to seeing Cleon's post later in the week Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 27, 2012 Author Share Posted March 27, 2012 On the basis of "best defender as cover and other as stopper". I tend to base it almost purely on Tackling + Aggression. I don't mind my stopper making a rash challenge and giving away a freekick if he stops a quick counter, but I don't want my sweeping player taking anyone out in or around the box. That's also a valid point. I'm guessing you take decisions into account as well then? Or the aggression could be a slightly issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 27, 2012 Author Share Posted March 27, 2012 The saved game as been downloaded morealess 150 times and no-one had any questions about it? Wonder what everyone is doing with the game Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobKelly Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Cleon, do you believe classic tactics can be successful in this game seeing as you can't use shouts with them? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 27, 2012 Author Share Posted March 27, 2012 Cleon, do you believe classic tactics can be successful in this game seeing as you can't use shouts with them? Of course they can. But I don't see the point in them anymore, it's more hassle and a lot more work trying to alter things in game that you can do a lot simpler by using the TC and shouts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojko Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 i dont know why i can load Cleon your save game into my fm, i have 12.04 patch. when i try to load your save appers info that the save game dont loaded Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 27, 2012 Author Share Posted March 27, 2012 i dont know why i can load Cleon your save game into my fm, i have 12.04 patch. when i try to load your save appers info that the save game dont loaded Hmm no-one else as posted this issue so I'm not sure if yours is just an isolated case or not. But are you sure you've updated FM to 12.2.2? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojko Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 no i dont have new patch Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 27, 2012 Author Share Posted March 27, 2012 It will only work if you update to the latest patch. Go online with steam and download it rather than playing in offline mode. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitjamvp Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 As you can see below Crystal Palace isnt really the team that should be near top, the realistic goal should be to enjoy the premier division adventure. But we proved them all wrong. I dont really think i have ever been that satisfied with my FM management, the main reason for the teams better stability compared to Osnabrucks job are the shouts. I cant thank you enough Cleon, your post has really changed the way i use them and the results below show that. No team has demolished me, we did lose couple of matches but mostly due to them just being to good. Still we had chances against them. We have 3rd best attack and 2nd best defence and all that was acomplished with players far worse then premiership standards are, let alone TOP 4 teams superstars. As you can presume Crystal Palace arent the richest team in the world so i just brought couple of promising young players. I didnt have enough money for a new AMC which is one of essential positions in the formation so i decided to retrain my only real winger as i dont use left-footed wingers in my formation. Surprisingly he became my key player. 10 for passing and 12 for creativity dont really suit one of top leagues perfect attacking midfielder but his flair and speed make opponents suffer badly. 5 goals and 11 assists 18(2) league matches Goal for the season is to qualify for european competition as i dont really have many players in my squad which will probably result in worse form and exhaustion later in the season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coentrao Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 One thing i don't like on the shout "stand-off opponents" is that it drops the closing down to zero, it's too extreme in my opinion i'd rather use the "stand-off more" from the tactics screen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitjamvp Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I use Stay on feet in most of my matches as opponets usually have faster players then mine. I dont want them to just slid hard as it can easily result in missed tackle or a card. Exploit the middle and flanks are also both extremely usefull and so is Look for overleap. Work ball into box is also often used when opponents midfield is too wide. Retain possesion is probably my favourite though, which is very usefull when i take the lead. I also started using Control Strategy as my first option and it really is great. Opponents have far less counter attacks since my players seem to be much more aware defensively. When i used attacking strategy opponets had too many clear cut chances due to the counter attacks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 As you can see below Crystal Palace isnt really the team that should be near top, the realistic goal should be to enjoy the premier division adventure. But we proved them all wrong. I dont really think i have ever been that satisfied with my FM management, the main reason for the teams better stability compared to Osnabrucks job are the shouts. I cant thank you enough Cleon, your post has really changed the way i use them and the results below show that. No team has demolished me, we did lose couple of matches but mostly due to them just being to good. Still we had chances against them. We have 3rd best attack and 2nd best defence and all that was acomplished with players far worse then premiership standards are, let alone TOP 4 teams superstars. As you can presume Crystal Palace arent the richest team in the world so i just brought couple of promising young players. I didnt have enough money for a new AMC which is one of essential positions in the formation so i decided to retrain my only real winger as i dont use left-footed wingers in my formation. Surprisingly he became my key player. 10 for passing and 12 for creativity dont really suit one of top leagues perfect attacking midfielder but his flair and speed make opponents suffer badly. 5 goals and 11 assists 18(2) league matches Goal for the season is to qualify for european competition as i dont really have many players in my squad which will probably result in worse form and exhaustion later in the season. Some brilliant results there. Glad you use the shouts differently now too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 One thing i don't like on the shout "stand-off opponents" is that it drops the closing down to zero, it's too extreme in my opinion i'd rather use the "stand-off more" from the tactics screen. Well the whole point of the shouts is to be more extreme than your average/normal settings. As you rightly point out you can use the same option from the tactics screen but there might be times when it's vital you don't over commit or lose the shape at all. This is when you'd use the shouts rather than actual tactic settings. They offer something 'different'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 I use Stay on feet in most of my matches as opponets usually have faster players then mine. I dont want them to just slid hard as it can easily result in missed tackle or a card. Exploit the middle and flanks are also both extremely usefull and so is Look for overleap. Work ball into box is also often used when opponents midfield is too wide. Retain possesion is probably my favourite though, which is very usefull when i take the lead. I also started using Control Strategy as my first option and it really is great. Opponents have far less counter attacks since my players seem to be much more aware defensively. When i used attacking strategy opponets had too many clear cut chances due to the counter attacks. So I'm guessing you've created a few different groups of shouts? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 I've added the shouts I use Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbobBRFC Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I've added the shouts I use Will have a read now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbobBRFC Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Good post on the shouts Cleon, very useful. Ive always used the Play wider exploit the middle combination and it does work well. I think even more so when using an AMC as they end up with loads of room. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coentrao Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I use the play wider and exploit the middle when playing against a wide 442 diamond to take advantage of the space in the middle and it works quite well, never thought of using play narrower+exploit the flanks against a narrow formation, gonna have to try it against a 442 narrow diamond which i always seem to struggle against. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitjamvp Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 So I'm guessing you've created a few different groups of shouts? I do use lots of them at the same time but i didnt group them, as i prefer to just add them during the match one by one. I still dont watch 3d highlights, i prefer those tiny circles Edit: Nice way to beat league leaders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham_aka_stam Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 That's also a valid point. I'm guessing you take decisions into account as well then? Or the aggression could be a slightly issue. No, I meant High Tackling and Not High Aggression. The way I think of it, if I want the Cover player to make a challenge, it has to win the ball and it has to be fair. Decisions also comes into it of course. The saved game as been downloaded morealess 150 times and no-one had any questions about it? Wonder what everyone is doing with the game I wonder... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aderow Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I tried stopping the match every 15 minutes and analysing both what my assistant is saying as well as the current stats in the match and it went surprisingly well. Played away at Fulham and it looked like one of those matches that would end 1-1 with fulham grabbing a late equaliser. But after looking at the situation and adapting logically, I was able to stop Fulham's momentum whenever they started to get some. Glad to know I can think logically Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbobBRFC Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I tried stopping the match every 15 minutes and analysing both what my assistant is saying as well as the current stats in the match and it went surprisingly well. Played away at Fulham and it looked like one of those matches that would end 1-1 with fulham grabbing a late equaliser. But after looking at the situation and adapting logically, I was able to stop Fulham's momentum whenever they started to get some. Glad to know I can think logically Thinking logically is always good as you said stopping the momentum before it starts can make a massive difference. try just pausing at random important intrervals and analysing your players positions on the pitch. I learnt loads from it, think it was in the "playing like Swansea" thread where I properly explained it. Try pausing at different intervals and just look at your players, try this against bigger teams smaller teams and soon learn the best way to get your team playing (to look at positioning I usually find it easier to switch to 2D view). DId you win the FUlham game ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShirazS Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 How do you guys decide when to pause the game? Just randomly or after certain events occur, like losing/winning possession? I've tried this and it has helped me understand how my team is playing better but most of the time when I pause, I do not see anything significant and I think it maybe because I am pausing the game randomly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 I tried stopping the match every 15 minutes and analysing both what my assistant is saying as well as the current stats in the match and it went surprisingly well. Played away at Fulham and it looked like one of those matches that would end 1-1 with fulham grabbing a late equaliser. But after looking at the situation and adapting logically, I was able to stop Fulham's momentum whenever they started to get some. Glad to know I can think logically Did you win the game? Don't tell me you actually got a result? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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