Fix the transfer system

[thesandman]

I can't believe people in this thread are arguing that having no offers at all - even ones he rejects -for Ronaldo is realistic.

If he had a bust up with Mourinho (or someone more likely to get him shipped out like the Chairman\president whatever he's called there) or similar at Real, and they wanted him out, and offered him around the world for (basically) a free transfer, people here are arguing that not one single club would at least have a go at signing him.

That is nonsense.

What's he on, 13m a year? As a lot of other people have said, there's no difference paying him all that in wages, or paying 20m up front in a transfer, and paying him about 120k a week wages over 3 years.

[jase19]

i'm not trying to sell ronaldo. i'm trying to sell normal squad players. the only players i can sell are the ones that i don't want to. anytime i want to actually sell a player, i can't get an offer.

[Jimmy_Jambo]

Started as Spurs, sold a few deadwood (Pav, Gomes, Corluka)

Signed Samba and Martin Olsson (Both from Blackburn) and I found that Samba was on about 35/40k a week, he wanted double that when trying to sign (83k) and I think he wanted "Match Highest Earner" so he's on about 100k now (VDV asked for a new contract when City bid 12million for him (Negotiated for 35million, 10million up front, 25million over 48 months, they came back with the exact same offer of 12million up front)...

This seems to me unrealistic. City also bid for Modric, 13million.. I laughed and asked for 100 million. They offered 13million again about 2 weeks later.

Sigh...

[efreet]

LOL at people trying to argue with millnerpoint.The guy defend SI more than they defend themselves.

btw Cause of the absence of the staff in this thread we can all understand that they know the issues, but won\'t be fixing them any time soon.

[milnerpoint]

you seem to know alot about my posting for having only 10 posts and being here for a very short space of time.........

[lee_uk]

LOL at people trying to argue with millnerpoint.The guy defend SI more than they defend themselves.

btw Cause of the absence of the staff in this thread we can all understand that they know the issues, but won\'t be fixing them any time soon.

real helpful.

[YAY]

you seem to know alot about my posting for having only 10 posts and being here for a very short space of time.........

It is possible to view GD without signing up you know.

[milnerpoint]

It is possible to view GD without signing up you know.

wow really??

[YAY]

wow really??

Yes. So your point about 'only being here a short space of time' is void. And what does how many posts somebody has got to do with how many posts of yours they have read?

[milnerpoint]

take it somewhere else mate, you dont jump on someones back within 10 posts of joining a new forum, clearly someone with a new account who has been banned before.

[YAY]

take it somewhere else mate, you dont jump on someones back within 10 posts of joining a new forum, clearly someone with a new account who has been banned before.

Possibly. Just pointing out that the date the person signed or the post count isnt relevant

[Guest]

take it somewhere else mate, you dont jump on someones back within 10 posts of joining a new forum,

You also do not bite back but as you're also still a n00b to the forum I guess that lesson has been lost on you.

[x42bn6]

take it somewhere else mate, you dont jump on someones back within 10 posts of joining a new forum, clearly someone with a new account who has been banned before.

Lurkers are rampant on every single forum. Don't jump to conclusions.

Everyone was a newcomer at some point.

[milnerpoint]

hahahahahahaha what a surprise.

[milnerpoint]

You also do not bite back but as you're also still a n00b to the forum I guess that lesson has been lost on you.

you learn something new every day

[philly_flyer10]

LOL at people trying to argue with millnerpoint.The guy defend SI more than they defend themselves.

btw Cause of the absence of the staff in this thread we can all understand that they know the issues, but won\'t be fixing them any time soon.

Its hilarious to watch him spin himself in circle defending everything. Its best to ignore rampant fanbois.

As for the OP, there would be 10-20 teams interested. The player would move on if hes not wanted, even if its a step down.

[efreet]

@milnerpoint i know so much because i\'ve been reading a 2-3 months before registering.And you post constantly so it\'s hard not to memorize the shining knight defending SI at every chance.

[BSX]

IMO FM transfer system is the worst ever. Selling players is very very very difficult.

[jdrawmer]

I'm a total neutral here, and I can see both sides. The transfer system clearly isn't completely realistic, but it's by no means the worst ever. It's probably the best around in terms of football playing and management games.

I've had issues selling players sometimes too - but it's a hard thing to get right. Most of the people complaining here are complaining about not being able to basically get rid of half their squad. IT's very unlikely in football that this would ever happen anyway, and half the time you're trying to shift players that have technically just joined. In real life, there's not really a comparison for that.

I think we can all agree though, that's it's improving year on year. The signings that occur in the game are very realistic, and that adds to the realism and enjoyment... Some management titles are ruined by stupid AI signing garbage etc.

And on the the point of the OP - I think you've got to be a pretty big SI defender to not admit that there's a slight flaw in the transfer system if ronaldo can't even get OFFERS when offloaded for free. People have given very sound reasoning, but at the end of the day until an SI representitive has his say, who knows how the coding works, then nobody can truely comment. In real life, some clubs would at least try to enter negotiations with the player for free, even if they failed

[GoDi]

That is just plain stupid conclusions.

The reason u did not get any interest in him is that when the game starts the shortlists for all clubs are pretty much empty.

If u would offer him (AFTER transfer listing him) in a game started on june, and offer him early december, u would get toooooons of offers for him, considering u are able to make him unhappy before that.

In FM2012 clubs know beforehand if the player aint interested in joining them, and refuse to bid, altough if that is the reason it will say so after u offer him.

As far as selling players, its really easy.

Search my post from about year ago, it still applies... (About the 2.x of value offering).

One thing I admit, getting rid of few guys have been a pain in the arse, u need to have some quality or its nearly impossible to sell, altough from what I have seen, timing is everything, 3 weeks before new years is a great time to be selling, after 1.1 its 2x harder and u will also be getting Alot lower bids for your players.

As far as selling not in transfer windows (or 1 week prior), dont bother, u will need to be offering a GREAT player for Ridicilous price for that to happen, your looking at 10 times lower interest from clubs and atleast 2-3 times lower price...

[themadsheep2001]

Good old GD, people flaming others rather than keeping to the topic, and you wonder why SI dont comment...

Transfer system is definitely not the worst ever, on the whole its pretty good, but REP still seems to have far too big a say in transfers. Also im not sure REP changes quick enough, though at the moment my view on this purely anecdotal and would require further testing. But ive seen players have rising young strikers, with solid attributes, hitting 150+ in 180 games. Now, that kind of young player should be having offers thrown at his club like confetti, bigger clubs desperate to grab the next big thing... except it doesnt happen, because of his rep. That to me doesnt make sense

[Kain]

I wouldn't say the transfer system is improving year after year. FM10 was better than this for a start.

[themadsheep2001]

I wouldn't say the transfer system is improving year after year. FM10 was better than this for a start.

FM10 made it far too easy to flog rubbish players for ridiculous prices

[Jimmy_Jambo]

FM10 made it far too easy to flog rubbish players for ridiculous prices

FM12 made it far too hard to flog legendary players for next to nothing prices.

[jdrawmer]

I've never had a problem AT ALL trying to flog a player that's been playing well. Fair enough, offers don't typically fly in for him, but I do get them, and enquiries etc. But i've played a game with a full season of real madrid, and had plenty of offers for CR9 after the season. The first season has always been a strange one for FM simply because by the time of the release, squads have already been made up, but the game starts pre-season, so it is actually a hard thing to get rid IMO

[AcidBurn]

FM10 made it far too easy to flog rubbish players for ridiculous prices

I agree at Sunderland I sold Richardson for £10 million and Paul McShane for £8 million.

[themadsheep2001]

I agree at Sunderland I sold Richardson for £10 million and Paul McShane for £8 million.

I could sell Park for £15 million. That just isnt right. But on the other hand, the underlying mechanics still need some work, its annoying watching some of the players the AI are buying currently

[milnerpoint]

in FM10 i got £1.5m for Darren Mackie, if you know anything about Scottish football you will know how ludicrous that was.

[BiggusD]

in FM10 i got £1.5m for Darren Mackie, if you know anything about Scottish football you will know how ludicrous that was.

In FM11 (and 12?) if me and the AI had identical twins at identical contracts and a base value of say £5m, and they bid for mine and I for theirs, they would bid 5 and I would bid 5.

Then they would negotiate my bid to 15m and I would do the same.

Then they would withdraw from the negotiations while I tried 7.5m.

Then I would offer mine out for 10 millions, and they would bid 5m.

Then they would reject mine and demand 13m, and I would bid 9.

etc

... if the AI wants a player, they need to start coughing up the cash. I don't sell players for less money than I would need to buy a replacement that is equally good or better. So I don't sell.

That is, until my club is the best in the world and all my players are continental and world-wide rep by default. Then they are easy to sell at 2x prices.

I wish SI would remove the use of the magical Reputation from FM.

[milnerpoint]

In FM11 (and 12?) if me and the AI had identical twins at identical contracts and a base value of say £5m, and they bid for mine and I for theirs, they would bid 5 and I would bid 5.

Then they would negotiate my bid to 15m and I would do the same.

Then they would withdraw from the negotiations while I tried 7.5m.

Then I would offer mine out for 10 millions, and they would bid 5m.

Then they would reject mine and demand 13m, and I would bid 9.

etc

... if the AI wants a player, they need to start coughing up the cash. I don't sell players for less money than I would need to buy a replacement that is equally good or better. So I don't sell.

That is, until my club is the best in the world and all my players are continental and world-wide rep by default. Then they are easy to sell at 2x prices.

I wish SI would remove the use of the magical Reputation from FM.

I dont follow you Biggus.

FYI Mackie is a terrible player, absolutely terrible, a striker who has scored 55 league goals in 11 seasons, with him scoring 16 in 1 seaons, which tells you all you need to know about the rest of his time with the dons. Getting £1.5m for him is like getting £150m for Titus Bramble.

[Jimmy_Jambo]

I dont follow you Biggus.

FYI Mackie is a terrible player, absolutely terrible, a striker who has scored 55 league goals in 11 seasons, with him scoring 16 in 1 seaons, which tells you all you need to know about the rest of his time with the dons. Getting £1.5m for him is like getting £150m for Titus Bramble.

I generally laughed at this.. (but is true) lol

[BiggusD]

I dont follow you Biggus.

FYI Mackie is a terrible player, absolutely terrible, a striker who has scored 55 league goals in 11 seasons, with him scoring 16 in 1 seaons, which tells you all you need to know about the rest of his time with the dons. Getting £1.5m for him is like getting £150m for Titus Bramble.

I wasn't answering what you said about Mackie but what you were getting at with that post.

Granted, the logic behind AI player purchases in FM10 might have been sub-par, but at least players were moving clubs back then. Many human managers have noticed that the AI seems to lack ambition, and the reason for this is that they don't sign players who would improve their squads - only players that are as good or could possibly become as good as the ones they have. There is no foresight programmed into it, so if Real Madrid lost their 3-4 biggest stars at once, the average player CA in the club would become lower, and that's the quality they would buy afterwards - forever remaining at that level. What is needed in the game is that it asks "what is the best player in the world?" and when he is found "what will he cost us", and when they bid that amount "what will he want in wages" and when they give him that, they would be a better team. No questions asked (when considering Real Madrid and the other in the top 5).

This, it is clear, the AI do not.

It is also clear that is exactly what the humans do, and precisely why we remain on top once we are there.

[Kuchiki]

Still no response from SI, shock!

[Cougar2010]

Still no response from SI, shock!

Did you really expect there to be??

SI staff don't really get involved in many threads overall.

[milnerpoint]

Especially one like this.

[ViG1980]

I can't believe how many excuses are coming out trying to defend the game here.

If Real offered Ronaldo out for free a gazillion teams would be there in a second - even those that, in reality, he would not want to go to - they would still try and put an offer in. You see it every year in reality with small clubs trying to buy players - Blackburn for Ronnie for example.

Ronaldo for free - LOTS of clubs would be lining up regardless of how little a chance they had to sign him.

Whether he would sign is entirely different because in this example if never even gets to that.

[Cougar2010]

Whether he would sign is entirely different because in this example if never even gets to because the AI has already done the calculations behind the scenes and decided he wouldn't sign.

Corrected for you ViG

[Jimmy_Jambo]

Corrected for you ViG

But how does a club/manager know he wont sign before actually speaking to the player??

The BS that his wages would be too high, your paying no fee for the player, so savign there which could be transfered to the wages. Its flawed and needs a reshape.

[Cougar2010]

But how does a club/manager know he wont sign before actually speaking to the player??

The BS that his wages would be too high, your paying no fee for the player, so savign there which could be transfered to the wages. Its flawed and needs a reshape.

(A) Ronaldo (Controlled by AI) + (B) Random AI Club = © No Transfer.

Just because the user just sees outcome © it doesn't mean that (A) + (B) hasn't happened.

[YAY]

(A) Ronaldo (Controlled by AI) + (B) Random AI Club = © No Transfer.

Just because the user just sees outcome © it doesn't mean that (A) + (B) hasn't happened.

Well obviously it hasnt happend. Because (B) hasnt even bid for the player.

[Äktsjon Männ]

What fabulous calculation would end up in a conclusion that Man City (just as the most obvious example) should not have any interest in Cristiano Ronaldo on a free? Obviously that calculation must be a bit flawed somewhere.

[Jimmy_Jambo]

(A) Ronaldo (Controlled by AI) + (B) Random AI Club = © No Transfer.

Just because the user just sees outcome © it doesn't mean that (A) + (B) hasn't happened.

Im more worried by the fact is the AI hasnt got the intelligence to bid for one of the worlds best player. Regradless of wages. I would bet alot of teams IRL would bid/offer wges to him, and go over their wage budget to accomodate him. (I know shirt sales, marketing etc are not included in the game) but these alone would cover at least his first year, and the saving of a transfer fee aswell..

As im not at home now, would someone do a similar test with someone like Jack Wilshire/Rooney/someone of similar class to these? See what the outcome is?

[milnerpoint]

Watch yourself Cougar

[Sussex Hammer]

Just offered Ilunga, O'Neil and Demel at end of first season with West Ham. Got a derisory offer for Demel but can't offload Illunga and O'Neill for free!!! The problem is and it's been the same as long as I can remember is that on the whole you have to lower your price to get rid of a player and yet "always" seem to have to pay over the odds if you want to buy.

Just offered 3.5 million which is the value for James McARTHUR I think but Wigan came back only willing to sell for £15 million.

If I want a decent centre back, midfielder and striker for West Ham it's impossible because I can't raise the funds.

[Chochip]

The transfer system has been the same for a few years now. They really have not improved much. This system strictly based on club/player reputation is showing its age.

[Cougar2010]

Well obviously it hasnt happend. Because (B) hasnt even bid for the player.

No but the AI has calculated that if random club (B) did bid for Ronaldo the outcome would be © no transfer so they are saving time by not bidding.

All FM is doing different to the real world is doing the calculations behind the scenes and stopping the user from becoming over whelmed with information/messages which would slow gameplay down.

What fabulous calculation would end up in a conclusion that Man City (just as the most obvious example) should not have any interest in Cristiano Ronaldo on a free? Obviously that calculation must be a bit flawed somewhere.

If I was Man City manager I'm not sure I would approach Ronaldo if he was available on a free, it would depend on a number of factors.

The AI obviously use a number of factors as well. You can argue that the those factors need refined but for that you would need to know why Man City didn't make an approach and only SI can answer that.

[x42bn6]

No but the AI has calculated that if random club (B) did bid for Ronaldo the outcome would be © no transfer so they are saving time by not bidding.

All FM is doing different to the real world is doing the calculations behind the scenes and stopping the user from becoming over whelmed with information/messages which would slow gameplay down.

You can never know for sure, though - if you can afford Ronaldo for free and you believe you have something special (i.e. a specific role or contract clauses) to make yourself more attractive than other clubs, they should go for it.

Besides, if Ronaldo were offered out for essentially free, no club is going to be stupid enough to try and undercut the price and would meet that offer price, meaning there is no negotiation, so little extra effort.

Besides, even if there is additional effort, it is to be expected, because you are offering out Ronaldo for free!

[YAY]

No but the AI has calculated that if random club (B) did bid for Ronaldo the outcome would be © no transfer so they are saving time by not bidding.

All FM is doing different to the real world is doing the calculations behind the scenes and stopping the user from becoming over whelmed with information/messages which would slow gameplay down.

If SI have programmed it like that to avoid an abundance of inbox messages then fair play, but I think they have over tweaked it slightly in that case. If they have programmed it to stop the likes of Spurs, Villa, Genoa, Toulouse................. from bidding and having 50 offers then great, but when the likes of Barca, Man Utd/City, Inter/AC and Bayern dont even bid theres something wrong.

As with most new 'features', they are usually a train wreck at day one and get tweaked gradually over the patches. Hopefully SI have acknowledged this as a genuine problem and are looking at tweaking it. A word from SI would certainly help the situation.

[MakaveliPT]

Transfers aside, the AI should be at least more agressive when they want a player, for 3 straight seasons Chelsea showed interest in buying hazard from me although 0 proposals, IMO clubs that big should go after the players they want like hungry hounds, show the player some love, destabilize the player, instead of just saying to the press oh we're interested in hazard but we aint doing nothing unless they offer him to us and then again only if it's at most 5M more than his value.

At 2011 i had to pay the huge ammount of 40M for heung-min which was pretty much just a wonderkid, for 3 seasons in a row bayern asked for him on loan which i gladly accepted, when i tried to sell this well developed heung-min the most i got was 8.5M and it wasn't even a bid from bayern. There's no sense in the AI asking 40M for a player worth less than 10M but then when the same player is worth more than 10M u can't sell him not even for his value.

In FM 2011 u could easily pay 20M for a prospect and sell it in the future when he was developed for 60M at least, that seems impossible now as i had to sell also a developed ramsey and rodwell for the same price i paid for 'em while under developed.

As far as the ronaldo case goes, i doubt if ronaldo was being listed as free transfer noone would bid on him cuz of the wages.

[ViG1980]

Transfers aside, the AI should be at least more agressive when they want a player, for 3 straight seasons Chelsea showed interest in buying hazard from me although 0 proposals, IMO clubs that big should go after the players they want like hungry hounds, show the player some love, destabilize the player, instead of just saying to the press oh we're interested in hazard but we aint doing nothing unless they offer him to us and then again only if it's at most 5M more than his value.

Couldn't agree more with this although people will tell you that the interest was just rumours....but at the end of the day, teams are not aggressive enough with transfers.