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FM2012 English Pyramid level 14 with revamped youth system (in progress)

Golden eagles

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FCUtdWill

FCUtdWill

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I must have been distracted by Milan's 3rd goal :p

Fixed it now.

Lol, you could have asked the mods to move it, I'm sure they would have.

I noticed that its not too bad in the Premiership but gets progessively worse as you go down the leagues until the BSN/S when nearly all games are midweek matches.

Do you think its all the county cups that are causing it?

Yeah, it's what I've found too.

I don't think it is, because I don't have any on my database, unless you mean league cups?

I've managed to fix Level 7 though, the only thing is, I can't do what I've done on Levels 7-11 to Levels 1-6 as it's greyed out.

(Btw, feel free to mention me in your bugs forum thread if you haven't done, I can upload my .dbc/.xml etc to the FTP, I won't mind.)

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Erimus1876

Erimus1876

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Yeah, it's what I've found too.

I don't think it is, because I don't have any on my database, unless you mean league cups?

I've managed to fix Level 7 though, the only thing is, I can't do what I've done on Levels 7-11 to Levels 1-6 as it's greyed out.

(Btw, feel free to mention me in your bugs forum thread if you haven't done, I can upload my .dbc/.xml etc to the FTP, I won't mind.)

Yes I meant the league cups. I'm just in the middle of checking GE's original DB with all cups removed to see if it makes a difference. Will post outcome shortly....

Added your name to the bug thread :thup:

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FCUtdWill

FCUtdWill

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Yes I meant the league cups. I'm just in the middle of checking GE's original DB with all cups removed to see if it makes a difference. Will post outcome shortly....

Added your name to the bug thread :thup:

I don't think they'd cause a problem as they have set dates compared to league fixtures. League fixtures have set dates too but you know what I mean. It's worth trying though, so I'd be interested to see the result.

The only solution is deleting the nation rules and adding them again manually so you can have an editable top 6 divisions, but I don't want to do that as I'd lose the League Cup/Johnstone's Paint Trophy rules (preliminary round for LC, North/South sections for JPT).

Cheers mate :)

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Erimus1876

Erimus1876

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Might be on to something here. I've removed all the youth leagues and all the cups (including the FA Cup, League Cup, JPT etc... every cup), and the fixtures from L1 - L14 are fine.

So there is obviously a cup competition that is conflicting with league fixtures. Now its a case or finding out which one, rebuidling it and seeing if it works.

Any takers? :)

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FCUtdWill

FCUtdWill

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Might be on to something here. I've removed all the youth leagues and all the cups (including the FA Cup, League Cup, JPT etc... every cup), and the fixtures from L1 - L14 are fine.

So there is obviously a cup competition that is conflicting with league fixtures. Now its a case or finding out which one, rebuidling it and seeing if it works.

Any takers? :)

Hmm, that is very interesting. I've removed all my reserve/youth leagues too (ticking the No Reserve/Youth Fixtures boxes on Levels 1-6 teams) and seeing what that does.

Check the national cup competitions and see if there's anything on there. I know of a few cup fixtures that are played on a Saturday but they are in Levels 9 and 10.

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Erimus1876

Erimus1876

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Right, I've just removed all the cups GE made and left the normal ones in (FAC, LC, JPT, VASE) and its much better. There's still a few midweek fixtures but nowhere near as many as with all the cups in.

So it may be a case of either having all the cups in, but with unrealistc midweek dates for league fixtures, or all the county cups out and having a more realistic league calendar?

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FCUtdWill

FCUtdWill

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Right, I've just removed all the cups GE made and left the normal ones in (FAC, LC, JPT, VASE) and its much better. There's still a few midweek fixtures but nowhere near as many as with all the cups in.

So it may be a case of either having all the cups in, but with unrealistc midweek dates for league fixtures, or all the county cups out and having a more realistic league calendar?

I don't understand that at all, because the cups I've got at Levels 9-10 are fine with the league schedule, but the ones that are at higher levels cause the problem.

I'd have cup games as well, can be a bit of a boring game if you're just going to be playing league games every season until you get to the football league. See what Michael/Neil say in the Bugs forum first and if it can be sorted.

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Erimus1876

Erimus1876

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I don't understand that at all, because the cups I've got at Levels 9-10 are fine with the league schedule, but the ones that are at higher levels cause the problem.

I'd have cup games as well, can be a bit of a boring game if you're just going to be playing league games every season until you get to the football league. See what Michael/Neil say in the Bugs forum first and if it can be sorted.

I know its hard to pinpoint why this is happening. It seems some people have issues with stuff like not enough teams in certain leagues, or Premiership teams entering the preliminary rounds of the FA Cup, now this weird fixture problem some are having and some not.

I'm going to have a look at GE's original DB tomorrow and see if I can figure it out lol.

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FCUtdWill

FCUtdWill

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I know its hard to pinpoint why this is happening. It seems some people have issues with stuff like not enough teams in certain leagues, or Premiership teams entering the preliminary rounds of the FA Cup, now this weird fixture problem some are having and some not.

I'm going to have a look at GE's original DB tomorrow and see if I can figure it out lol.

Yeah, I can sort out Levels 7-11 (or 14 in this database's case) but any higher I can't. That might be because they're trying to load two English leagues at once and they merge causing the problem. I've never seen that as a problem on mine, but I'll be doing some tests to see if it does happen.

Lol, have fun. If you find anything, feel free to PM me :)

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AndyMUFC

AndyMUFC

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i started a fresh build using team data added to database by GE rebuilt every lower league comp and checked clashes with league and cup games all seemed okay as had entered dates for rounds manually.

my problem seems to have arose since people wanted FA trophy editted so they could play evey round once that got to level 8 as hardcoded comp starts at 3rd qualifying round so you wouldn't play in 1st 3 qualifying rounds, therefore possible not playing until you reach level 6 as they enter at 3rd qualifying round

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AndyMUFC

AndyMUFC

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it is all to do i think with when you try to edit a hardcoded cup comp

started to rebuild db again removed fa trophy and all was okay with weekend fixtures

added fa trophy back in and now premier, championship, l1, l2 dont play fixtures on fa trophy weekends when that comp doesn't involve league teams.

my theroy is it means you may have to loss carling and jpt rules if we ever want to get it to work properly by building db from scratch with no nation rules set

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AndyMUFC

AndyMUFC

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all 8 knockout rounds and both semi final leg of fa trophy saturdays that i have set in custom build have seen premier and football league move their fixtures on saturdays fa trophy play and there is no way of checking for clashes like with the leagues

the only thing i can think of is it is something in the games hardcode programmed by sigames

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AndyMUFC

AndyMUFC

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i've started from scratch and it is fa trophy causing problem so looks like that may have to stay as hardcoded

but just looking through fixtures its not too bad on my new attempt

so may leave as custom as long as nothing else moves fixtures

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AndyMUFC

AndyMUFC

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started again just to test theory and added northern premier league cup to hardcoded db and a few saturadys at start of that comp the games in premier and football league move so its happen everytime you add or edit comps to the coded db

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AndyMUFC

AndyMUFC

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we will never get this database to work properly because you just cant add cups to the db without just tried to add fa vase and its move hardcoded fixtures that aren't even involved in that comp.

this is happening everytime you add any comp to original database

am going to give up on trying to fix this db and to make matters worst have not got a saved db from before i started to try and fix it for everyone

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Erimus1876

Erimus1876

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I'm testing a slightly less complex version at the moment. Sacrificing a bit of depth for the sake of stability and playability. I should know in a few hours if this lighter version is viable, and if it is I'll start fixing the reps, attendances, kits etc and merge the full club names db I made. I've got some spare time on my hands so if it works I'll release it tomorrow or Saturday.

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Erimus1876

Erimus1876

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Update: I've finished all the edits and essential fixes and am now testing it for a few seasons. This will be a L12 DB without the County Cups and with a reduced Youth League setup as the full Golden Eagles database was unplayable for me (and others) due to the amount of processing time it took. So far this was one seems fine and if there are no crashes or major issues I'll release it Friday night or Saturday night (UK time).

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sammyt93

sammyt93

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correct me if i'm wrong, as i've probably missed something here, but if it is the county cups that effect the level 1-6 fixtures, can you not fit them in the international breaks? also if that doesn't work then would moving those competitions and any others that seem to effect this to midweek make a difference or not?

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Erimus1876

Erimus1876

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correct me if i'm wrong, as i've probably missed something here, but if it is the county cups that effect the level 1-6 fixtures, can you not fit them in the international breaks? also if that doesn't work then would moving those competitions and any others that seem to effect this to midweek make a difference or not?

I think its the hardcoded cups, like the FA Trophy, that are messing up league fixtures. It doesn't matter what dates you set them on, once you start adding leagues and cups to the existing structure the league fixtures from levels 1 - 6 get messed up. It seems to be a bug, and therefore nothing we try can get around it. Its why Gason's L11 database suffers from the same problems as this one does. The main reason why I've removed county cups is to speed up processing time. But I may put some back in if it doesn't slow things down too much.

I'm still in testing, but it'll be ready for release on Saturday night (if it doesn't crash :))

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Erimus1876

Erimus1876

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Hi

Has anybody else got the error message about the Hellenic League?

It says the minimum number of teams needs to be more than the P+R places.

A lot of people have this problem and so far no one can figure out why some do and some don't with the exact same DB. Its usually caused if you have more than one database ticked when setting up a new game. I may have resolved it on the DB I'm editing, but I won't know for sure until people try it. I'll post a link to it tomorrow.

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joey7

joey7

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A lot of people have this problem and so far no one can figure out why some do and some don't with the exact same DB. Its usually caused if you have more than one database ticked when setting up a new game. I may have resolved it on the DB I'm editing, but I won't know for sure until people try it. I'll post a link to it tomorrow.

I also have the 'Real Names' DB on, I just tried it without and still came up with the same error :(

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joey7

joey7

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It may have been that one, but as I say, I disabled that DB and still had the error.

Is there anyway I can resolve it myself?

Im guessing the minimum number needs to raised but I don't want to be doing that and undoing another part of the DB.

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Erimus1876

Erimus1876

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Yes you need to raise that number, but what will happen is another error will probably pop up to do with another league. Thats the problem with the database, it only displays one error at a time so you have no idea if you have one to fix, or a hundred to fix, since one edit can effect another.

I remember the error you mentioned now and I vaguely recall having to go through about 50 leagues upping the minimum number of teams needed in each since one error after another popped up. Then you'll get errors saying the number of teams in "X" league is too many etc. Its a pain in the arse to be honest.

However I've now got a merged Golden Eagles database that loads and sets up a game fine. Unfortuantely, as people who have played it have pointed out, GE's database its not very stable, it crashes and is full of crucial unbalancing errors, and due to the massive amount of processing time is virtually unplayable unless you have a really fast gaming PC. What I'm trying to do at the moment is get a stable version. I'm about 80% there but I'm still not happy with L12 since its still a resource hog and I've had 1 crash in 48 hours of continous testing. Thats 1 crash too many despite the time spent testing it.

I may cut L12 out and try it at L11 to see how stable it is, or possibly rebuild Levels 10 - 14 but with less leagues. So if you want to wait until Sunday at the latest, you can give this one a go once I've figured out what direction to take it.

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Erimus1876

Erimus1876

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all my reworked files of GE Database have been removed due to finding more problems the further i got into game even though i thought it was stable to release after some testing

What sort of problems are you finding? I've been testing since Thursday and have had one crash, but I may have fixed that as I think it was linked to the Level 12 leagues. Are there other issues other than crashes you're finding? I'll put a link up for mine tonight if todays tests go ok.

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AndyMUFC

AndyMUFC

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not having crashes it just trying to rework the FA Cup, Trophy and Vase after rebuilding the comps so that the level 1-6 dont move so much otherwise in premier league you play 6 games in 15 days between 17th and 31st decemeber.

have figured out to move some of the trophy and vase fixture dates from real life dates i was using to the same dates as fa cup games

this is due to teams in trophy and vase are properly knocked out early from cup before those comps start as if leave as proper round dates it would move even more premier leagues games, had 12 games before xmas and 26 after using real comp dates when in real life its roughly 50% games played before and after xmas

this does mean if you get through a couple of early qualifying fa cup games your trophy or vase games when those comps start your games in those get moved to midweek, which i believe is a fair compromise to get this database working efficently

currently with the build i'm just finishing having all cup competitions using same dates you end up with 15 before and 23 after xmas and this is the best you can get due to having all 6 qualifying rounds of fa cup have tried to use international break weekends as well so not bad only having 3 games moved from before to after xmas

i think this is the best you'll get and also to have everything still in that was in original golden eagles database release

will start testing tonight for next couple days to test for errors and stability and if no problems hope to release this build to the group Tuesday or Wednesday at latest and this will be my final release as i'm missing playing the game now

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Erimus1876

Erimus1876

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Yeah, the FA Cup really screws things up. It must be a bug in the SI editor since it also occurs on other custom databases, not just this one.

There are 6 preliminary + qualifying rounds before the first round proper starts, and all 6 of those rounds force league clubs from the Premiership to the BSN/S to move their league games scheduled on those dates to midweek. Its crazy having Premiership and Championship clubs moving their fixtures forward so they don't clash with FA Cup rounds they're not even involved in. Its not just the FA Cup too, looks like all custom made cups mess them around to some extent too.

The compromise I've come up with is to move the 6 FA Cup preliminary rounds + Rounds 1 & 2, to Tuesday nights. I've also moved the entire FA Vase to Tuesday nights. This has given me back 10 - 12 weekend fixtures for Levels 1 - 6 so the game now has realistic league fixtures again. There are still about 3 Thursday night games for football league clubs during a season that I can't do anything about, but 3 unrealistic Thursday games out of 46 matches isn't too bad I suppose.

I'm now testing the database to see if FA Cup matches played on Tuesday nights that go to a replay aren't replayed on the following Saturday otherwise I'm back to square one if those replays force Premiership & Championship clubs to push their scheduled weekend games for that day to midweek.

This is really a nighmare to fix since its a bug that has to be worked around with lots of compromises.

I'll still probably release my database later tonight, but I'm at the point like all the others who've had a crack at fixing this database, I'm just fed up with it to be honest and want to start playing the bloody game now :lol:

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Erimus1876

Erimus1876

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Great work and commitment Erimus. Looking forward to playing this tonight. Good Luck!!

Just to let you know this won't be the full level 14 pyramid that GE first envisioned. His was just far too unstable and unplayable down to that level, well for me anyway. Others have said so too. So I've took it as far as level 11. If someone whose got a faster PC than mine wants to add those structures later and fix the stability issues for those extra levels, they're welcome. I just couldn't play it at all unfortunately. So this is the GE database "lighter" version :)

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Torres.Goal

Torres.Goal

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Yes I understand Erimus, i briefly played the original version from GE but was far too slow and have read pretty much the entire thread and seen all the various stumbling blocks you have come up against. Level 11 is still going to be great as ive only ever played down to level 8 previously. Is this still on course for release tonight? I bet you cant wait to actually play the game!!

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Erimus1876

Erimus1876

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Yes, I'll have the link to it up sometime before midnight. I've actually been playing it since yesterday but wanted to fine tweak the cup dates today to try and get the best league calendar possible with this database. I think I've got it as best as I can now but its not perfect. In an hour or so I'll post some screenshots of a clubs fixtures to see what people think.

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Erimus1876

Erimus1876

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Update:

I've got the fixtures for season 2011/12 as best I can now and they're not too bad at all. But for some reason in season 2012/13 the Championship fixtures' last game of the season is on a Wednesday, and not the traditional Sunday. I'm wondering if the February 29th leap year day has something to do with this. I'm now holidaying to season 2013/14 to see if the Championship final day fixture returns to a Sunday for that season.

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