FM2012 English Pyramid level 14 with revamped youth system (in progress)

[Golden eagles]

this is amazing, eveyrday i check the forums to see how your getting on....very excited this is the big challenge for FM 12 this year, take a tier 14 team to the champions league! are you still looking at a release date of xmas eve?

keep up the good work mate!

I am pushing hard to make xmas eve and still am planning to release it then. It depends if I run into any problems during testing along the way. Right now I am doing all research by myself as well except for a few leagues that some of the community members provided me. Researching the lower leagues is taking the most part of my time right now.

[Golden eagles]

Definitely team specific

There is unlikely to be enough movement of AI teams for it to cause a problem, and if it happens to a human controlled club, you can just play the reserves if necessary.

Plus, if you add league specific County cups, there is going to be a whole host of teams in the wrong county cup! Which sort of defeats the object of a county cup in the first place!

I understand this. That is my main worry for doing it league specific. And the main reason to decide to do it team specific more then likely. But this reply below temps me to think the other way.

In uncle ron's file last year, that was my one major annoyance, the fact that my team stayed in 2 different county cups even when I was in the championship, it lead to fixture congestions and the board expecting me to win it when I had other priorities and had to play youth's and under 18's.

The league version sounds good allbeit unrealistic, as it mirrors real life better.

I just hate the thought to never be able to reach a senior county cup when starting low.

[Golden eagles]

I wonder if anyone ever used boundaries for a cup? And if this works?

[FCUtdWill]

About county cups, it's the big question for me in my database too, I'm sitting on the fence, I can't decide what to do about them.

Unless (and this might take a bit of time) you want to go through every county cup there is and put in a spreadsheet which league teams come from. If there's a few from a league (which there will be) put on the "how many teams" bit of each league to match the number of teams in each cup. But then you might get one club playing in two county cups when another isn't playing in any at all.

I know what you're saying about reaching the higher county cups when starting low, can be awkward, but I think putting them as specific clubs would be the best way to go about it.

[Golden eagles]

I probably will set them as specific clubs but might play around with some other options first for testing purposes. There should be a way around this. About boundaries, Do you know that if you set all 4 boundaries (north,south,east,west) and then put it on the map that the boundaries will be a square shape or a diamond?

[Golden eagles]

Unless (and this might take a bit of time) you want to go through every county cup there is and put in a spreadsheet which league teams come from.

I was thinking about doing it that way only to determine which leagues are involved in what county cup region. I might end up doing team specific for most county cups but the county cups that are linked to complete divisions I might change them to league specific. It depends what the spreadsheet will look like.

It might seem to take long to make a spread sheet, but putting in each specific team is pretty time consuming as well..lol

Talking about realism if you look at league specific or team specific? Team specific you got the right teams of this season in the county cups when you start. But years later in your save it still will be the same teams. (I assume in real life this changes from time to time when teams get promoted). League specific you might have the problem that some (minority I think havent researched it yet) might end up in the wrong county cup but right now there are also teams performing in county cups as "guest" teams. In both cases its not possible to copy real-life 100%.

Its just a matter what you want in your game, either stay in the same county cup no matter what league you are in, or move from amateur to intermediate to senior county cup when you advance through the leagues.

[FCUtdWill]

I probably will set them as specific clubs but might play around with some other options first for testing purposes. There should be a way around this. About boundaries, Do you know that if you set all 4 boundaries (north,south,east,west) and then put it on the map that the boundaries will be a square shape or a diamond?

Yeah, I'm thinking of choosing specific teams, although it'll be a pain in the derreire for some cups as there's more than 60 teams involved.

Depends where your four places are on the map. I've put Huddersfield, Leeds, Bradford and Wakefield (all in West Yorkshire) with their lat/long's on the map you sent me via PM and is a funny sort of diamond/square shape.

[Golden eagles]

do you have any idea why some teams still will switch leagues after setting the boundaries? for example I got 3 teams from york, 1 stays in within the league according to the boundaries, 2 still move to another league. and I got a few more teams that move despite the fact they are in the middle of the boundaries set.

[ism-scfc]

do you have any idea why some teams still will switch leagues after setting the boundaries? for example I got 3 teams from york, 1 stays in within the league according to the boundaries, 2 still move to another league. and I got a few more teams that move despite the fact they are in the middle of the boundaries set.

Have you set regional divisions for them?

[FCUtdWill]

do you have any idea why some teams still will switch leagues after setting the boundaries? for example I got 3 teams from york, 1 stays in within the league according to the boundaries, 2 still move to another league. and I got a few more teams that move despite the fact they are in the middle of the boundaries set.

It's probably because of a team in the league above getting relegated and it messes up the system, I've had it a few times. What league do the other 2 clubs move to?

Like now, I've had 3 teams getting relegated from the NWC One (with three sub-divisions, so one should go in each) but two have gone to the same division, meaning a couple of clubs have had to move around, the majority have stayed in the same division though.

Btw, I've managed to deny reserve teams getting promoted if their first team is in the league above, am just testing now until I get a relegation to see if it works. (Tried a different way to last time)

[ism-scfc]

It's probably because of a team in the league above getting relegated and it messes up the system, I've had it a few times. What league do the other 2 clubs move to?

Like now, I've had 3 teams getting relegated from the NWC One (with three sub-divisions, so one should go in each) but two have gone to the same division, meaning a couple of clubs have had to move around, the majority have stayed in the same division though.

Btw, I've managed to deny reserve teams getting promoted if their first team is in the league above, am just testing now until I get a relegation to see if it works. (Tried a different way to last time)

Should there not be more than three sub divisions for NWC D1?

Cheshire, Manchester, West Lancs, West Cheshire and Liverpool?

But as long as teams aren't shifting from Northern League to Kent league like they used to, it should be okay. Moving to the next league along is pretty much fine.

[Golden eagles]

Btw, I've managed to deny reserve teams getting promoted if their first team is in the league above, am just testing now until I get a relegation to see if it works. (Tried a different way to last time)

if it works that would be great! The relegation side gave me problems so am curious if you found a workable solution!

[Golden eagles]

Have you set regional divisions for them?

I try not to set regional divisions as you can basicly get most teams to stay in the same league if you set the boundaries for the division right. I did set the regional divisions for the few teams that keep floating around though, but was wondering if there was something else causing the teams to float outside of their boundaries even if they are correctly set. (boundary coordinates, city coordinates and boundaries.)

[FCUtdWill]

Should there not be more than three sub divisions for NWC D1?

Cheshire, Manchester, West Lancs, West Cheshire and Liverpool?

But as long as teams aren't shifting from Northern League to Kent league like they used to, it should be okay. Moving to the next league along is pretty much fine.

Yeah, there's 6 in total. I've made 3 so far, the other 3 haven't been made yet. (The 6th is the Staffordshire leagues) I like to go through league by league rather than level by level. I'm just testing reserve sides at the minute between the leagues.

if it works that would be great! The relegation side gave me problems so am curious if you found a workable solution!

Yeah, I've set up each reserve team as it's own team rather than through the reserve/youth team on the club. I've had New Brighton Reserves winning West Cheshire 3 only to be denied promotion because New Brighton finished 5th in West Cheshire 2.

Halfway through Season 2 testing, so will report back if there's any first teams that finish in the relegation zone and they have a reserve side in the league below.

[ism-scfc]

Yeah, I've set up each reserve team as it's own team rather than through the reserve/youth team on the club. I've had New Brighton Reserves winning West Cheshire 3 only to be denied promotion because New Brighton finished 5th in West Cheshire 2.

Wha affiliation options to you use to do that?

Do you have to use sub-team and set up an affiliation with each individual team? And what tick boxes?

[Cadijk van Kaarhandel]

I try not to set regional divisions as you can basicly get most teams to stay in the same league if you set the boundaries for the division right. I did set the regional divisions for the few teams that keep floating around though, but was wondering if there was something else causing the teams to float outside of their boundaries even if they are correctly set. (boundary coordinates, city coordinates and boundaries.)

Is it the City Coordinates or the Stadium Coordinates that affect where they go?

Just a thought....if its the Stadium ones and they're blank, the game won't know where to put the team.

[FCUtdWill]

Wha affiliation options to you use to do that?

Do you have to use sub-team and set up an affiliation with each individual team? And what tick boxes?

I've got them set up as B teams (some possible C clubs too), and the following ticked:

Players move freely, play friendlies, same board, financial help, youth players training (to give the reserves a squad rather than a few players), help with facilities, marketing relations, scouting knowledge shared and cannot play in same division.

I will be setting up affliations for each separate club so if a club has 3 (or 4 or 5) teams, they'll be set up in this way.

[Golden eagles]

Is it the City Coordinates or the Stadium Coordinates that affect where they go?

Just a thought....if its the Stadium ones and they're blank, the game won't know where to put the team.

now that is something I was wondering about as well. I hope someone can tell this. I was hoping that if a city is linked to a stadium that the city coordinates will be the main factor.

[ism-scfc]

I've got them set up as B teams (some possible C clubs too), and the following ticked:

Players move freely, play friendlies, same board, financial help, youth players training (to give the reserves a squad rather than a few players), help with facilities, marketing relations, scouting knowledge shared and cannot play in same division.

I will be setting up affliations for each separate club so if a club has 3 (or 4 or 5) teams, they'll be set up in this way.

What if a club has 4 or more teams? Are 3rd team and below all C clubs?

And does each club have to be linked to each other club, or just all to the first team? So 1st to 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 2nd to 1st, 3rd, 4th etc?

[FCUtdWill]

now that is something I was wondering about as well. I hope someone can tell this. I was hoping that if a city is linked to a stadium that the city coordinates will be the main factor.

Stadium location can play a part, I've had clubs move leagues because of their stadium being in another place compared to where they should be. I haven't done anything to the co-ordinates, just the city where the stadium is. Now I've linked the two together by putting the club and stadium in the same city. Had no movements because of it since.

[Golden eagles]

Stadium location can play a part, I've had clubs move leagues because of their stadium being in another place compared to where they should be. I haven't done anything to the co-ordinates, just the city where the stadium is. Now I've linked the two together by putting the club and stadium in the same city. Had no movements because of it since.

I also have the city set the same for the team and for the stadium. But I noticed that in the stadium main tab the coordinates are default set to 0. I wonder if you have to set them seperately for some teams.

[FCUtdWill]

I also have the city set the same for the team and for the stadium. But I noticed that in the stadium main tab the coordinates are default set to 0. I wonder if you have to set them seperately for some teams.

I've never set co-ordinates in my entire FM editing history, I've had teams staying in the same league season after season.

Just checking here, have you set their next divisions to the current division they're in for clubs?

[Golden eagles]

I've never set co-ordinates in my entire FM editing history, I've had teams staying in the same league season after season.

Just checking here, have you set their next divisions to the current division they're in for clubs?

yes, i've set the next division to current division for all teams.

[FCUtdWill]

yes, i've set the next division to current division for all teams.

Okay, what leagues are your York teams moving to? Are the stadiums in York?

[Geordie_nathan]

when it comes to stadiums you need to set the co-ordinates. it is known that this stops the age old problem of teams getting thrown in to the wrong leagues. the second way of avoiding this is to set the teams regional divisions in the team editing tab. doing both these will basically ensure no hiccups. although it cant be 100% avoided as there is always the paradox of when two northern teams are relegated then who goes south? we all know the answer but fm basically has a fit. definitely one thing to look out for. hope to see this out by xmas cos i have been holding out for a good lower league database

[FCUtdWill]

Have you set regional divisions for them?

How do the regional divisions work?

For example, if I put every team that I've made from the six feeder leagues that can play in the NW Counties One as the regional divisions would that always make sure they get promoted to that league?

Or is it a case of the other way round, and putting the NW Counties teams (Prem included) as the six feeder leagues as their regional divisions?

[ism-scfc]

How do the regional divisions work?

For example, if I put every team that I've made from the six feeder leagues that can play in the NW Counties One as the regional divisions would that always make sure they get promoted to that league?

Or is it a case of the other way round, and putting the NW Counties teams (Prem included) as the six feeder leagues as their regional divisions?

Both

You set a regional division for each level

So you'd put say:

9 NWC Prem

10 NWC D1

11 Manchester League Prem

12 Manchester League D1

etc.

[FCUtdWill]

Both

You set a regional division for each level

So you'd put say:

9 NWC Prem

10 NWC D1

11 Manchester League Prem

12 Manchester League D1

etc.

Thank you for explaining to me. I think I understand it. Do I have to do this for every league, even the lower leagues like the Lancashire Amateur League (which gets teams from the West Lancashire 2 league) to the NW Counties Prem?

[FCUtdWill]

if it works that would be great! The relegation side gave me problems so am curious if you found a workable solution!

Bad news I'm afraid, New Brighton First Team got relegated from West Cheshire 2 into West Cheshire 3. Their Reserve side is in that division so looks like both New Brighton teams will be playing in the same division Annoyingly as they finished 7th, their Reserves have a nice R next to their name.

In a weird sort of way, in that very same division, Heswall Reserves have been denied promotion because their First Team is in the division above.

I honestly don't know what to do now

[Golden eagles]

Bad news I'm afraid, New Brighton First Team got relegated from West Cheshire 2 into West Cheshire 3. Their Reserve side is in that division so looks like both New Brighton teams will be playing in the same division Annoyingly as they finished 7th, their Reserves have a nice R next to their name.

In a weird sort of way, in that very same division, Heswall Reserves have been denied promotion because their First Team is in the division above.

I honestly don't know what to do now

Keep trying. There must be a way to get it working....once I got my leagues finished I shall try to play around with it some more but right now I have to force myself to enter team after team after team......lol........

[Golden eagles]

2nd post updated..

[Erimus1876]

2nd post updated..

This is an unbelievable project you've undertaken mate, hats off to you!

Is there any chance you could release level 10 or 11 when its complete, or is it only possible to release the whole 14 levels in one go once you've finished? The reason I'm asking is I don't think my PC could handle level 14... just too many leagues, but could probably run level 10 or 11 ok.

[Golden eagles]

This is an unbelievable project you've undertaken mate, hats off to you!

Is there any chance you could release level 10 or 11 when its complete, or is it only possible to release the whole 14 levels in one go once you've finished? The reason I'm asking is I don't think my PC could handle level 14... just too many leagues, but could probably run level 10 or 11 ok.

When it is complete I will release a light version which will go to either level 12 or level 13.

[Geordie_nathan]

have you got any versions released so far? or are you holding out for the full wack

[ism-scfc]

He's doing it region by region, not level by level, so releasing early versions won't be possible

[Golden eagles]

He's doing it region by region, not level by level, so releasing early versions won't be possible

Beside of doing it region by region I wouldnt be tempted to put out an early release as then my time would be divided between support for people using the database and finishing the final version. I rather keep going full speed to enter all information in the Database. Then when finished I can easily make different versions as needed.

[Erimus1876]

Beside of doing it region by region I wouldnt be tempted to put out an early release as then my time would be divided between support for people using the database and finishing the final version. I rather keep going full speed to enter all information in the Database. Then when finished I can easily make different versions as needed.

Fair enough

[Golden eagles]

2nd post updated. Work is progressing slowly but surely...lol

[Golden eagles]

short update in second post. played around with the youth leagues a littlebit.

[Golden eagles]

second post updated.

[lo.simon]

that's enormous 14 level !!

How many hours for this job's ?

[Golden eagles]

that's enormous 14 level !!

How many hours for this job's ?

too many....lol

Got 105 leagues done and 157 more to go....these are the database changes after completing version 1.46 (see 2nd post)

[acswift]

After reading through this thread, sounds quality and very accurately and prefessionally done

one question with the county cups: If i was a team whos 1st team competed in a county cup, would my first team always compete in that or when the club gets into a certain division the reserve team will then compete in the cup? is this even possible?

[Golden eagles]

After reading through this thread, sounds quality and very accurately and prefessionally done

one question with the county cups: If i was a team whos 1st team competed in a county cup, would my first team always compete in that or when the club gets into a certain division the reserve team will then compete in the cup? is this even possible?

So far in creating the county cups there are limited options. As far as I know there are only a few ways to set this up

1. Team specific where teams are bound to a certain county cup.

* Disadvantage: You are stuck in that specific cup till the end of days. So if you bring a small team to the top you will still play in that small amateur county cup and never will advance to say the senior county cup.

* Advantage: first few seasons the cups are pretty accurate with who is contending in it.

2. 1 county cup for each county FA again team specific.

* Disadvantage: Its not real life from the get go but still simulates "a" county cup within the proper county FA and with the proper teams in that region.

* Advantage: No matter if you start high or low, the county cup stays the same and you can go from struggling in it to actually improve and win it one day.

3. Put all teams in a "secondary division" and use this secondary division to create the county cups.

* Disadvantage: Every team can only be assigned to 1 secondary division. This means that some teams that play in more then 1 county cup as in real life are now limited to 1 county cup only.

* Advantage as 2 but with the 1 county cup limitation.

These are the 3 possible solutions I found so far and dont know which way to go yet. I dont look forward of taking a level 14 club to the top and then be stuck with playing the so and so amateur county cup while I want to have a challenge in a senior cup.

About reserve teams. Once you select that your first team plays in the county cup that team will keep playing in the county club. Same as Reserves for the bigger teams. They will always yield their reserves once set in the database.

You can opt to line up your reserves in the "first team" if you desire to do that though.

[dan99]

So Rothbury will be in the North Northumberland division 1? I can give you details about them if you want?

[Golden eagles]

So Rothbury will be in the North Northumberland division 1? I can give you details about them if you want?

I just checked and thats where they are at I already put them in.... But you can give me the details anyways just in case I got the wrong info in..

[KeydGV21]

This sounds epic...can't wait for it...anyone have any idea the minimum specs for a computer to handle this?

[Golden eagles]

This sounds epic...can't wait for it...anyone have any idea the minimum specs for a computer to handle this?

I am about half way with adding all competitions and teams. When I test a season it takes about 4 hours to holiday a whole season. I think when the database is complete it will take about 5-6 hours to holiday 1 season which I think is acceptable. this is tested on an AMD Athlon II x2 235E 2.70 Ghz. (dual) with 6GB on windows 7 operating system.

[FCUtdWill]

I am about half way with adding all competitions and teams. When I test a season it takes about 4 hours to holiday a whole season. I think when the database is complete it will take about 5-6 hours to holiday 1 season which I think is acceptable. this is tested on an AMD Athlon II x2 235E 2.70 Ghz. (dual) with 6GB on windows 7 operating system.

If you want to test the structure and make sure every team's going to the right league (after promotion/relegation), run another league and make england view only. Remove all from your detail level and your news subscriptions to make your test go faster.

You won't see many goals, attendances and players for the lower teams though.

[KeydGV21]

I am about half way with adding all competitions and teams. When I test a season it takes about 4 hours to holiday a whole season. I think when the database is complete it will take about 5-6 hours to holiday 1 season which I think is acceptable. this is tested on an AMD Athlon II x2 235E 2.70 Ghz. (dual) with 6GB on windows 7 operating system.

I think anyone who plays this is well aware that there's going to be downtime playing it...and to lift a team from those depths will be well worth it...I'm sort of surprised the games even going that fast to holliday...