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Stupid Questions Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)

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My inside forward on the left, so in the AML position, won't cut inside because it conflicts with his PPM of "Runs with ball down the right".  Should I report this as a bug or am I misunderstanding something?

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44 minutes ago, Jessan said:

My inside forward on the left, so in the AML position, won't cut inside because it conflicts with his PPM of "Runs with ball down the right".  Should I report this as a bug or am I misunderstanding something?

Runs with ball down the right kicks in when he's on the right wing, so nothing to do with cutting inside from the left.  I don't think I've ever seen an Inside Forward who doesn't cut inside, can you upload a match pkm which demonstrates this?

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Does criticising/praising someones training performance have any impact on their future behaviour?  Because i see the same offenders training poorly most weeks, and then I tell them off, but they just acknowledge it. 

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In FM19 If I use a player in the DM-C strata will the defensive line drop slightly deeper as in previous versions? 

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Posted (edited)

Hi everyone, I am new to this forum and didn't want to make a whole new thread but I have been playing FM for a number of years now and I always create the same 4-2-3-1 tactic with IF's with ease and win most things when I set this tactic up. I am bored of creating this same tactic with the same roles for example CB's (BPD) CM's (DLP and BBM)

 

Are there any other guides on how I can implement other roles such as Raumdeutur/Trequartista. I have never seemed to get mezzela or carrillero into a tactic either.

 

any help would be appreciated guys, getting bored of using the same tactic!

Edited by Speedylad123

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On 05/03/2019 at 11:00, 3LionsFM said:

In FM19 If I use a player in the DM-C strata will the defensive line drop slightly deeper as in previous versions? 

Yes.

35 minutes ago, Speedylad123 said:

Hi everyone, I am new to this forum and didn't want to make a whole new thread but I have been playing FM for a number of years now and I always create the same 4-2-3-1 tactic with IF's with ease and win most things when I set this tactic up. I am bored of creating this same tactic with the same roles for example CB's (BPD) CM's (DLP and BBM)

 

Are there any other guides on how I can implement other roles such as Raumdeutur/Trequartista. I have never seemed to get mezzela or carrillero into a tactic either.

 

any help would be appreciated guys, getting bored of using the same tactic!

Welcome to the forum :).  There are plenty of threads which show people using any number of different roles.  Anything by Cleon or Rashidi are usually a good start.  I have a current thread going at the moment (Developing my 4123DM tiki taka) which uses a Treq out on the wing.

There are also guides linked in the "Please Read" thread pinned to the top of the forum.  Note however these guides and threads tend to focus on the complete picture of putting together a decent system, rather than just "this is how to use a Raumdeuter" for example.

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4 minutes ago, herne79 said:

Yes.

Welcome to the forum :).  There are plenty of threads which show people using any number of different roles.  Anything by Cleon or Rashidi are usually a good start.  I have a current thread going at the moment (Developing my 4123DM tiki taka) which uses a Treq out on the wing.

There are also guides linked in the "Please Read" thread pinned to the top of the forum.  Note however these guides and threads tend to focus on the complete picture of putting together a decent system, rather than just "this is how to use a Raumdeuter" for example.

Thank you mate. Any in particular I can take a look at? I seem to be struggling to understand how each role will affect others in a certain system for example I want to try and get a midfield 3 with mezzela or Carrielro involved but don't know if it is possible to work it into together or if I HAVE to have certain roles no matter what formation. At United my right IF isn't the strongest with no natural there so would like to change it to something different but don't know how to implement it + add PI's to ensure it works with other roles around it

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On ‎14‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 13:03, GJS93 said:

using a 442/4441 with the 2 wide midfielders set in those roles, left on attack, right on support, ideally when the ball is on the left I want my right midfielder to come infield to allow more space for my attacking right back, have tried sit narrower and/or roam from position without much affect, is it the actual role as wide midfielder that's the problem?

apologies for the quality, but pic as an example of post above, dlp d (no6) has played the ball back to the centre half, I want to get the right midfielder (no25) to come in to X or roughly around there so he can get the ball in space. tried setting as a wide playmaker but don't like it with cut inside on the ball set and also crossing unavailable. other options/ideas?

20190306_182224a.jpg

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1 hour ago, GJS93 said:

apologies for the quality, but pic as an example of post above, dlp d (no6) has played the ball back to the centre half, I want to get the right midfielder (no25) to come in to X or roughly around there so he can get the ball in space. tried setting as a wide playmaker but don't like it with cut inside on the ball set and also crossing unavailable. other options/ideas?

20190306_182224a.jpg

Maybe inverted winger? Though he also cuts inside with the ball, which you (for some reason) don't want. But you need to post a screenshot of your tactic or - ideally - to start a separate thread with a lot more details, so that we could get the whole picture.

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Posted (edited)

1.Are attributes like team work, stamina not taking CA points? What about others non hidden that you are sure that are not taking CA?

 

2.Is the player able to reach better mental attributes due to experience even if he reach PA? or at least some of them ?

Edited by LukasZ_VCF

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1 hour ago, LukasZ_VCF said:

1.Are attributes like team work, stamina not taking CA points? What about others non hidden that you are sure that are not taking CA?

 

2.Is the player able to reach better mental attributes due to experience even if he reach PA? or at least some of them ?

1.  There are very few visible attributes which are not taken into account for the CA calculation.  Determination, Aggression and Bravery I think are the only 3.  None of the hidden attributes are included.  All other attributes along with footedness and positional familiarity are included.

2.  Once CA reaches PA attributes can still change.  In this situation some attributes must decline in order for other attributes to increase.  So yes, Mental attributes can become better if PA has been reached, but something else must reduce in order for that to happen (assuming those attributes are included in the CA calculation).

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46 minutes ago, herne79 said:

1.  There are very few visible attributes which are not taken into account for the CA calculation.  Determination, Aggression and Bravery I think are the only 3.  None of the hidden attributes are included.  All other attributes along with footedness and positional familiarity are included.

2.  Once CA reaches PA attributes can still change.  In this situation some attributes must decline in order for other attributes to increase.  So yes, Mental attributes can become better if PA has been reached, but something else must reduce in order for that to happen (assuming those attributes are included in the CA calculation).

1. Is there a way to increase Bravery ?

Did u thought about making for example team work without taking CA so everyone with time could increase it ? It would be normal to increase it when they play a long time with the same squad...

So stamina takes CA?

 

2. Did you thought about making some attributes like decisions, composure able to reach higher level with more matches/age increase it would be like experience more realistic... the mental should not be locked like that because if someone play on the highest level should be able to reach higher attributes...there are players that are not really good technically and physically but got to the best teams because of personality etc and got experience and play doing their job well

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1 hour ago, LukasZ_VCF said:

1. Is there a way to increase Bravery ?

Bravery can already increase.  Over time, with experience and as training progresses.

1 hour ago, LukasZ_VCF said:

Did u thought about making for example team work without taking CA so everyone with time could increase it ?

Everyone can already increase Team Work with time.  Some roles are likely to develop it more than others but it can still increase over time regardless.

1 hour ago, LukasZ_VCF said:

So stamina takes CA?

Yes.

1 hour ago, LukasZ_VCF said:

2. Did you thought about making some attributes like decisions, composure able to reach higher level with more matches/age increase it would be like experience more realistic... the mental should not be locked like that because if someone play on the highest level should be able to reach higher attributes...there are players that are not really good technically and physically but got to the best teams because of personality etc and got experience and play doing their job well

It can increase over time, it isn't locked.  As I said above, even if somebody has reached their maximum CA their attributes can still change - it just means some attributes have to reduce to allow others to increase.  If that didn't happen, everyone would be able to increase their attributes exponentially.

If you have suggestions of where you think the game could improve, detail them in the Feature Requests Forum:thup:

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2 minutes ago, herne79 said:

Bravery can already increase.  Over time, with experience and as training progresses.

Everyone can already increase Team Work with time.  Some roles are likely to develop it more than others but it can still increase over time regardless.

Yes.

It can increase over time, it isn't locked.  As I said above, even if somebody has reached their maximum CA their attributes can still change - it just means some attributes have to reduce to allow others to increase.  If that didn't happen, everyone would be able to increase their attributes exponentially. 

If you have suggestions of where you think the game could improve, detail them in the Feature Requests Forum:thup:

Yes but here something must drop so something else will go up...but in reality players with age not all but most play better due to experience change of character etc and they don't become worse in technical or physical for example players like in 26-30 y.o.

 

For example in reality you can sign the best player from 2nd league and he will be first team player, in game if someone is 2nd league he is locked and will have 2nd league abilities... but first league experience and leading by coaches can make player better mentally :)

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Can a Mezzala play on the same side as an Insider Forward? To my understanding they both look to play in said half space, which would counter-productive, right?

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2 hours ago, Luizinho said:

Can a Mezzala play on the same side as an Insider Forward? To my understanding they both look to play in said half space, which would counter-productive, right?

Any role "can" play with any other role, it just depends on what happens around them (ie., the rest of your team) and the type of players you have at your disposal.  What might work for my team may or may not work for yours, so I'm afraid there's only one way to find out...

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11 hours ago, Luizinho said:

Can a Mezzala play on the same side as an Insider Forward? To my understanding they both look to play in said half space, which would counter-productive, right?

Depends on their mentals. Watch the match and see if they stand around holding hands or occupy the spaces you want.

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In FM18 and earlier what happens if i leave a player's "Position/Role" training on default so it only says something like "M(C) - Playing position"?

Does that player still train on a midfielders training schedule just without a focus on a certain role or does he only focus on the additional focus? What happens if i don't set an additional focus?

I always used to leave it on default if i wanted a player to train only a single attribute but i'm unsure if that's really how it works.

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Posted (edited)

Quick question:

I'm conceeding a quite concerning amount of goals in this way: corner against, opposition player puts the ball outside the box instead of actually crossing and one of their players advances with the ball on his feet without ANY marking or pressing from my team, until he shoots to a helpless goalkeeper.

My team has pressing set to the highest and on the set piece routine I have this:

g4q5LgA.jpg

I thought that, by placing two players on the edge of the area, they would counter this move. But they don't. They literally stay both there, just like in the graphic, almost hugging each other. And when the ball is shooted to the edge of the box, the opposition player gets it, advance without opposition and those two guys, instead of chasing him, start running back. No one presses the guy shooting, it's enervating how they give him all the space and time to do whatever he wants, I'm almost screaming to the screen, don't let the guy shoot Christ almighty!!... Then the guy shoots and unless he is really bad at it, it's not much different than a penalty, a shot without any opposition except of the poor GK.

So, any ideas to fix it? How can I specifically counter those types of corners?

Thank you!

Edited by 99

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Can scouts occasionally misjudge a player's personality?

I have attribute masking switched off on my Freiburg save which removes error on attributes, but I "splashed out" (£5.5m is a lot for me on this save) on a Brøndby IF newgen LB who was rated as Model Citizen yet once he signed he's instead listed as Fairly Sporting. 

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1 hour ago, zlatanera said:

Can scouts occasionally misjudge a player's personality?

I have attribute masking switched off on my Freiburg save which removes error on attributes, but I "splashed out" (£5.5m is a lot for me on this save) on a Brøndby IF newgen LB who was rated as Model Citizen yet once he signed he's instead listed as Fairly Sporting. 

Of course. If they scout a player one time they're not going to know his hidden personality atts. Even watching for a month won't mean they know him inside out.

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42 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

Of course. If they scout a player one time they're not going to know his hidden personality atts. Even watching for a month won't mean they know him inside out.

Yeah makes sense, and that's what I assumed. I've just never seen it before, and he was on my shortlist for about a year, scouted at least 5 times before the transfer. 

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Not sure if this has been covered before but does anyone know how the player traits 'tries to play way out of trouble' and 'brings ball out of defense' be learned by a player? On my save I can only teach 'brings ball out...' to my defender but not to my DM for some reason. Cheers

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39 minutes ago, ___tomgardner said:

Not sure if this has been covered before but does anyone know how the player traits 'tries to play way out of trouble' and 'brings ball out of defense' be learned by a player? On my save I can only teach 'brings ball out...' to my defender but not to my DM for some reason. Cheers

Because DM is not a defender (but midfielder), I guess.

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12 hours ago, ___tomgardner said:

Not sure if this has been covered before but does anyone know how the player traits 'tries to play way out of trouble' and 'brings ball out of defense' be learned by a player? On my save I can only teach 'brings ball out...' to my defender but not to my DM for some reason. Cheers

 

11 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Because DM is not a defender (but midfielder), I guess.

From my experience you need a player to be at least accomplished (darker green, the level before natural) in the DC position before he can learn the BBOOD trait. Tries To Play Way Out Of Trouble appears to be mentoring-only, just like in the past I believe it was tutoring-only. I've seen players pick it up - for example Frenkie de Jong got it from Lasse Schöne, which then had me worried he also pick up his negative trait. 

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On 14/03/2019 at 12:47, zlatanera said:

 

From my experience you need a player to be at least accomplished (darker green, the level before natural) in the DC position before he can learn the BBOOD trait. Tries To Play Way Out Of Trouble appears to be mentoring-only, just like in the past I believe it was tutoring-only. I've seen players pick it up - for example Frenkie de Jong got it from Lasse Schöne, which then had me worried he also pick up his negative trait. 

Ahh okay that makes sense thanks. Yeah traits and mentoring is a weird one not sure what the most effective way of passing a desired trait is - especially if there's annoying negative ones 

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I’ve a build a pretty good tactic. A 4-2-3-1 but my AM absolutely sucks no matter the role and the player playing there. So I’m going to take him out and add a DM. At the moment i used:

Cm(d) BtB (s)

w(s) AM(whatever doesn’t work) IF(A) 

 

im thinking of changing to a

deep lying playmaker or regista 

btb btb 

 

can two btb work well together? 

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1 hour ago, Phil Dunphy said:

can two btb work well together? 

Depends. They'll both roam to will need good OTB but ideally you want one of the midfield 3 supporting attacks or arriving in the box. You'll be reliant on your ifs/wingbacks. But this is just my guess

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Spoiler

 

 

10 minutes ago, ___tomgardner said:

Depends. They'll both roam to will need good OTB but ideally you want one of the midfield 3 supporting attacks or arriving in the box. You'll be reliant on your ifs/wingbacks. But this is just my guess

e00e8a252ba9eac3f1bd90996ccae066.png

i think it's doable, first game battered dortmund 4-0

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Any tips for keeping it tight, while reducing the effect on player condition for the last 20mins of game etc... i'm finding players knackered but wanna shut out a game.

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Posted (edited)

Regroup as opposed to counter pressing. Just get back into your defensive shape before you look to try and win the ball back again. 

You can also drop your defensive line and LOE too should you wish to close the space in behind your defence but this obviously brings a risk in terms of allowing them to build play closer to your goal before you go to engage them. 

Edited by craigcwwe

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Does offside trap mean more high defensive line? And disabled OffTrap means more deep defensive line?

Or these options dont linked?

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Completed some training with my youth players to develop their weaker foot. Having completed the training, I've noticed that they now have "Attempts to develop weaker foot" as a PPM? Should this be a PPM? Looks a bit odd!



 

Screenshot 2019-03-23 at 16.41.08.png

Screenshot 2019-03-23 at 16.41.32.png

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3 minutes ago, Spiegel said:

Completed some training with my youth players to develop their weaker foot. Having completed the training, I've noticed that they now have "Attempts to develop weaker foot" as a PPM? Should this be a PPM? Looks a bit odd!

The Trait doesn't actually develop their weaker foot.  It gives them the ability to develop their weaker foot.  So once they have learned the Trait only at that point do they actually start to develop their weaker foot, hence the message you are seeing.

As a side note, players cannot develop their weaker foot past "Reasonable", so always check their footedness before you start :thup:.

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On the main tactics screen, is the formation shown what the tactic looks like as a defensive shape as opposed to what it is offensively? So, in theory a 4-1-4-1 (with players in the M R/L strata) could be made into a 4-3-3 when attacking with the right roles and mentality?

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1 hour ago, Fieldsy said:

On the main tactics screen, is the formation shown what the tactic looks like as a defensive shape as opposed to what it is offensively? So, in theory a 4-1-4-1 (with players in the M R/L strata) could be made into a 4-3-3 when attacking with the right roles and mentality?

Pretty much yes :thup:.

You can of course find exceptions - pick a 4141, use a very attacking mentality with a winger on attack and a player without much work rate and he may not track back all that much, but essentially yes your formation is your basic defensive shape.

Also bear in mind tactical instructions can help determine where you defend.  So your 4141 will always be a 4141 formation when defending, but set up with a low block with little pressing and your 4141 will defend deep; whereas set up your 4141 in a more aggressive way and that same formation will defend much higher up the pitch.  So in both cases your defensive shape is a 4141, it'll just be positioned differently on the pitch.

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Cheers, that’s what I thought. What I’m trying to do is create and the. Use the space more effectively, especially against defensive teams. So, starting a little deeper but using PI to make them an Inside Foreward in the attacking phase. 

It seems that this FM more so than any others is about ripping up what has worked before and much more about space

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Hello all,

My stupid question is quite long, i'll try my best to explain. I've played FM for years but not a consistent basis.

How do you all know, how to approach a match, e.g If you're managing Mainz at home to FC Bayern, I usually just stick to my own formation/instructions and play it out and rarely change anything. Even away from home, i'd usually keep it the same but i'd perhaps only change from positive to maybe balanced/cautious. I feel like if i went cautious, played deeper and be more disciplined and maybe move my formation about, it could cost me the game anyway where if i kept my usual, it could get me a result (Perhaps Bayern not the best choice but hope you understand what i'm meaning).

 

Do you have no player/team instructions pre game till you enter before the game and see opposition line up?

I'm going to add opposition formation towards the 2D Classic so i see if they change formation during game, is it easy to sell for example if they have a LM/LW and they've got him on attack?

My final question is, how do you all know what to do, to change a game, it sounds silly asking this. I have mine on 2D Classic and conservative highlights (Could be wrong name). 

I always seem to play on the same formation 4231 or 41221 and then my team/player instructions always the same. I love FM and i'd love to get much better at the game so going a "smaller" club in a decent league i can maybe achieve something.

Sorry for the long post.

 

 

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Are the preset tactics ‘hardcoded’? As in, even if you change some of the TIs, you will always have certain behaviours or philosophies? For instance, a tika Taka preset if you got rid of all the preset instructions would then still have an element of the style?

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44 minutes ago, Fieldsy said:

Are the preset tactics ‘hardcoded’? As in, even if you change some of the TIs, you will always have certain behaviours or philosophies? For instance, a tika Taka preset if you got rid of all the preset instructions would then still have an element of the style?

No, they're just a collection of TI's/Roles/Formations 

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A problem I've found I have whenever managing in Holland or France is that my B team manager will overlook B team players to play my u19s. This is annoying on multiple grounds:

- u19 players get injured playing above their level, then can't train or develop

- u19 players have terrible form for B team and don't develop

- B team players are unfit, never play and don't develop

- B team players who are being trained a new position can't learn it due to lack of playing time

- player histories look weird (less of an issue, but still one)

Is this just the way things are always going to be, or have I been missing something somewhere in responsibilities? I've had this problem since FM16, just never occurred to ask about it.

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Hi all,

I’m trying to create a tactic which is similar to Simeone’s 4-4-2 at Atletico Madrid. In my head and from what I’ve read they seem to set up in a mid block which will press high up the pitch with the two strikers to try and regain possession, but if that press is beaten they drop back to their mid block and try and win the ball back in midfield through coordinated pressing traps.

I was just looking for some advice on how to set up the defensive line and line of engagement to achieve this. My initial thoughts were perhaps a balanced or cautious mentality with a standard or higher defensive line and then perhaps a lower line of engagement. The only problem I see with a lower LOE is the front two being too passive. 

I’m basing most of this replication on how they set up in the 2018 Europa league final, mainly because the game is readily available on YouTube to rewatch and there’s a good analysis of the match on spielverlagerung.

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2 hours ago, WWFCTom said:

I was just looking for some advice on how to set up the defensive line and line of engagement to achieve this. My initial thoughts were perhaps a balanced or cautious mentality with a standard or higher defensive line and then perhaps a lower line of engagement. The only problem I see with a lower LOE is the front two being too passive

If I was looking to replicate Atletico's 442 tactic under Simeone, I would in the first place pick either Atletico or a team that is very similar to them in terms of quality and player types, because for any tactic to work - you need suitable players (otherwise, the attempt of replication is likely to fail).

Now, on your question regarding instructions. If we speak solely about mentality and out-of-possession instructions, I would start with Balanced, standard DL, lower LOE, tighter marking and get stuck in (ocassionally more urgent pressing, but not necessarily and not always). However, defending - like attacking - consists of much more than just that. The setup of roles and duties, plus appropriate player instructions, are no less important.

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3 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

If I was looking to replicate Atletico's 442 tactic under Simeone, I would in the first place pick either Atletico or a team that is very similar to them in terms of quality and player types, because for any tactic to work - you need suitable players (otherwise, the attempt of replication is likely to fail).

Now, on your question regarding instructions. If we speak solely about mentality and out-of-possession instructions, I would start with Balanced, standard DL, lower LOE, tighter marking and get stuck in (ocassionally more urgent pressing, but not necessarily and not always). However, defending - like attacking - consists of much more than just that. The setup of roles and duties, plus appropriate player instructions, are no less important.

Thanks for taking the time for such a detailed response, i was undecided on whether to include tighter marking as a team instruction or just to select certain players but i'll try it out and see how it works out. Thanks again for the help.

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5 minutes ago, WWFCTom said:

i was undecided on whether to include tighter marking as a team instruction or just to select certain players

My preference in this case would be to use TM as a TI, but also tell the 4 midfielders to mark tighter in their PIs, in order to put some more pressure on the opposition during their build-up phase.

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Why does the game have a pre-set tactic called "Direct Counter-Attack" which uses a cautious mentality and 4 support duty players, and then the pre-match advice tells you that 1-2 support duties is most sensible for a cautious mentality?

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8 minutes ago, Boydo said:

Why does the game have a pre-set tactic called "Direct Counter-Attack" which uses a cautious mentality and 4 support duty players, and then the pre-match advice tells you that 1-2 support duties is most sensible for a cautious mentality?

That's the advice from your Assistant, which I honestly never pay attention to :brock:

Btw, cautious mentality can be used for different kinds of tactic, not only the direct counter preset one.

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Hi. Finally found this thread

Well I have had played for 2 season now. Generally there's thing that annoy me. Near the end of season, either march or april, my player is somehow decline. 

Not the attributes but on the pitch performance. 

So it's like they can't score penalty (either goes wide or straight to the keeper), short passing straight at enemy, despite usual good passer, poor finishing (one on one straight to the keeper), quick defender outpaced by slow target man, or defender just let opposition to walk past him, some own goal, etc. 

Coincidentally, between September-November my team perform very well. That my underdog team somehow challenging for champions league spot and title next season. 

I'm managing leicester city. 

In my first season i tought of match fatigue. So I bring more player and do more rotation in 2nd season but same pattern still happening

In my second season I tried to modify tactic during may, like lowering defensive line, put additional striker as winger and attacking midfielder to increase finishing ability, or put more playmaker esque player but no avail. 

What should I check next? 

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Does changing mentality only, all other things remaining the same, adjust the team's play significantly? 

Example: 
- Default tactic with positive mentality, higher defensive line, higher line of engagement, no particular in possession instructions 

If I change it to cautious without changing any TIs or PIs/roles, can I expect my 'higher' defensive lines to drop somewhat in accordance with cautious? While still being high relative to cautious. Will passing length shorten and temp decrease? 

Just trying to wrap my head around what happens by messing around with team mentality. 

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3 hours ago, Snootch said:

Does changing mentality only, all other things remaining the same, adjust the team's play significantly? 

Example: 
- Default tactic with positive mentality, higher defensive line, higher line of engagement, no particular in possession instructions 

If I change it to cautious without changing any TIs or PIs/roles, can I expect my 'higher' defensive lines to drop somewhat in accordance with cautious? While still being high relative to cautious.

Yes. Mentality affects all other settings.

 

3 hours ago, Snootch said:

Will passing length shorten and temp decrease? 

Tempo will decrease. Passing will not basically change in terms of length, but on a lower mentality players will be less willing to play forward passes in general, so what changes here is direction of passes. What will encourage players to move the ball forward with some more urgency is a higher tempo.

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