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Stupid Questions Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)

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2 hours ago, jujigatame said:

What's the functional difference between using a 4-2CM-3-1 and a 4-2DM-3-1 if you keep all the roles and duties the same?  Will the DMs defend deeper?  Will they stay deeper when attacking?  Both?  Neither?

You cannot keep roles and duties the same for the CM/DMs, except for roles such as BWM, DLP and RPM, which can be deployed in bot CM and DM positions. 

DMs will naturally defend deeper than CMs. How deep/high a player in a DM position will stay when you attack depends on his role and duty. An anchor will certainly stay deeper than volante (for example).

In essence, the main difference between the two versions of 4231 is that the standard one (with CMs) is better suited for a control-possession style, whereas the deeper one (2 DMs) is more conservative and hence provides a nice base for counter-attacking football.

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You realize you just said "you cannot keep roles and duties the same" and then immediately explained how you can do exactly that?

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So how players develop ?

1.Let's say I have left defender with CA 200/200 can I make him complete wing back and like train him like that and his attributes will change move from one to another that is trained on this position ? or when they reach 200/200 they stay that way?

2. What if I have a winger with 200/200 CA&PA can I start training him as complete wing back and move some stats to be more defensive and other stats that he need for this role?

 

I wonder If you can train someones attributes if they have free points CA not added anywhere yet or if they have not but you can still make them change like from winger to complete wing back etc

For example if I will take young winger like 19-21 with good PA will I be able to make him like complete wing back in like 5 years for example ?

 

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18 hours ago, jujigatame said:

You realize you just said "you cannot keep roles and duties the same" and then immediately explained how you can do exactly that?

Yes, I know what I said. I first gave you a more general answer and then precisely specified the 3 exceptions. But even if you used a combination of these three coinciding roles in DM instead of CM positions, the 2 systems (deep 4231 and standard 4231) would still work differently. Just as 4141dm wide works differently from the conservative 4141, even if all roles and duties are totally identical.

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On 02/02/2019 at 21:41, LukasZ_VCF said:

So how players develop ?

1.Let's say I have left defender with CA 200/200 can I make him complete wing back and like train him like that and his attributes will change move from one to another that is trained on this position ? or when they reach 200/200 they stay that way?

2. What if I have a winger with 200/200 CA&PA can I start training him as complete wing back and move some stats to be more defensive and other stats that he need for this role?

 

I wonder If you can train someones attributes if they have free points CA not added anywhere yet or if they have not but you can still make them change like from winger to complete wing back etc

For example if I will take young winger like 19-21 with good PA will I be able to make him like complete wing back in like 5 years for example ?

 

Attributes drive CA, not vice versa.

So you can indeed retrain someone who has reached their PA. It will likely result in an attribute rebalancing or the player "forgetting" another position to allow the shift to occur.

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So my tactic stopped working at the start of the new season. I changed to it the past season after the winter break and lost only one game against Real Madrid. How can I adapt it so I start winning again? I'm close to relegation zone while I'm predicted to finish 12th. The previous season I was predicted to finish 19th and I finished 3rd, we were in great form in the second half of the season as you can see in the images.

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2 minutes ago, Vali184 said:

So my tactic stopped working at the start of the new season. I changed to it the past season after the winter break and lost only one game against Real Madrid. How can I adapt it so I start winning again?

This isn't a quick fire question and answer, so you're better off starting a new thread with detail of what your issues are that you've seen and found.

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When I change a players training focus, because he's thinks it's not producing any results it goes form "Unhappy .." to "Had been unhappy about training" What exactly is that supposed to tell me? I changed his training so what why give me that info? Does it take some time to for his training happiness to reach good levels again or what is the purpose of this information? I don't remember that being in the game previously so why was it added?

Edited by BadanieLuck

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6 minutes ago, BadanieLuck said:

When I change a players training focus, because he's thinks it's not producing any results it goes form "Unhappy .." to "Had been unhappy about training" What exactly is that supposed to tell me? I changed his training so what why give me that info? Does it take some time to for his training happiness to reach good levels again or what is the purpose of this information? I don't remember that being in the game previously so why was it added?

It was the case in FM18 as well. 

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11 minutes ago, BadanieLuck said:

When I change a players training focus, because he's thinks it's not producing any results it goes form "Unhappy .." to "Had been unhappy about training" What exactly is that supposed to tell me? I changed his training so what why give me that info? Does it take some time to for his training happiness to reach good levels again or what is the purpose of this information? I don't remember that being in the game previously so why was it added?

Precisely this, it takes a little while.

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I'm just getting back into the game (haven't played since FM12) and have a question about the relationship between TIs and PIs. If I set TIs to 'dribble less' and then put a player on a role with hard coded 'dribble more' PIs (and assuming he has no dribbling related PMs), will the two instructions basically cancel each other out (ie dribbling will be neutral for that player)? Are there other player attributes (eg decisions, team work) that I should also consider?

Thanks in advance.

Edited by dz47

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My team is quite small and we concede relentlessly from heading mistakes either missed headers or my players will try to head the ball under no pressure but instead of finding a teammate they will always head it to the opposition, any ways to stop this? 

 

Example; The other team will lump the ball forward, the ball goes straight to my defence who have around 10 metres of space to take the ball down and pass it but instead they will try header it clear but they will just head it straight to their striker who will run in and score. 

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3 hours ago, dz47 said:

I'm just getting back into the game (haven't played since FM12) and have a question about the relationship between TIs and PIs. If I set TIs to 'dribble less' and then put a player on a role with hard coded 'dribble more' PIs (and assuming he has no dribbling related PMs), will the two instructions basically cancel each other out (ie dribbling will be neutral for that player)? Are there other player attributes (eg decisions, team work) that I should also consider?

Thanks in advance.

PIs override TIs, and PPMs (traits) override both. That's a general rule. So a player with a hard-coded "Dribble more" PI will still dribble more even if the TI is set to "Dribble less", although he might be doing that slightly less often than he would otherwise have. The same applies if he has a trait such as "Run with ball...".

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2 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

PIs override TIs, and PPMs (traits) override both. That's a general rule. So a player with a hard-coded "Dribble more" PI will still dribble more even if the TI is set to "Dribble less", although he might be doing that slightly less often than he would otherwise have. The same applies if he has a trait such as "Run with ball...".

You sort of contradict yourself there by saying one overrides the other and then mention how they are relative. So just to clear it up a little: 

It is my understanding that they don't override one another but shift the balance one way or another. For example, an instruction of "shoot less" may mean every players shoots less than normal but a player with "shoots from distance" is still going to shoot more than one without as his "normal" is more towards the shooting side of the scale.

It would be best to check in our ME area if you would like any specific examples of this covered, the outcome may vary based on the instruction/trait and how contradictory they are to one another.

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1 hour ago, Seb Wassell said:

You sort of contradict yourself there by saying one overrides the other and then mention how they are relative. So just to clear it up a little: 

It is my understanding that they don't override one another but shift the balance one way or another. For example, an instruction of "shoot less" may mean every players shoots less than normal but a player with "shoots from distance" is still going to shoot more than one without as his "normal" is more towards the shooting side of the scale.

It would be best to check in our ME area if you would like any specific examples of this covered, the outcome may vary based on the instruction/trait and how contradictory they are to one another.

No doubt that you - as a SI Staff member - know better than me, so I apologize if my answer was misleading in any sense. However, PIs (and traits) overriding TIs is something I learned from older and well-established members of the forum when I was new here. I think even some of the mods used the term "overriding" in this context. Actually, it seems that "override" might be too strong a word in this case :)

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To what extent can great mentals (Anticipation, Decisions, Concentration, Positioning) replace insufficient Acceleration in centre backs?   In the context of wanting to play a high line.

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1 hour ago, Bunkerossian said:

To what extent can great mentals (Anticipation, Decisions, Concentration, Positioning) replace insufficient Acceleration in centre backs?   In the context of wanting to play a high line.

It's impossible to say precisely to what extent mentals can compensate for low acceleration (or speed overall), but I personally value mentals (intelligence) a bit more than speed when it comes to defenders. Of course, it does not mean that great mentals can completely make up for poor speed, so if your defenders are too slow, I wouldn't recommend playing on a high d-line even if their mental stats are great. However, if I were to play with a higher DL, I would rather do that if my defenders had great intelligence (ant, pos, cnt, dec) and decent speed (12 or 13 for acc) than if they were really fast (17+) but with poor tactical intelligence. A good sweeper-keeper can also be of help when playing with a higher DL.

Btw, when deciding on the position of your DL, you also need to consider other elements of your tactic, not just the quality of your defenders.

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2 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

No doubt that you - as a SI Staff member - know better than me, so I apologize if my answer was misleading in any sense. However, PIs (and traits) overriding TIs is something I learned from older and well-established members of the forum when I was new here. I think even some of the mods used the term "overriding" in this context. Actually, it seems that "override" might be too strong a word in this case :)

Yeh it's just terms such as "override" or "ignore" that's too strong.  You already said the important part in your original reply:

7 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

So a player with a hard-coded "Dribble more" PI will still dribble more even if the TI is set to "Dribble less", although he might be doing that slightly less often than he would otherwise have.

:thup:

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24 minutes ago, herne79 said:

Yeh it's just terms such as "override" or "ignore" that's too strong.  You already said the important part in your original reply:

:thup:

Prioritise?

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59 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

It's impossible to say precisely to what extent mentals can compensate for low acceleration (or speed overall), but I personally value mentals (intelligence) a bit more than speed when it comes to defenders. Of course, it does not mean that great mentals can completely make up for poor speed, so if your defenders are too slow, I wouldn't recommend playing on a high d-line even if their mental stats are great. However, if I were to play with a higher DL, I would rather do that if my defenders had great intelligence (ant, pos, cnt, dec) and decent speed (12 or 13 for acc) than if they were really fast (17+) but with poor tactical intelligence. A good sweeper-keeper can also be of help when playing with a higher DL.

Btw, when deciding on the position of your DL, you also need to consider other elements of your tactic, not just the quality of your defenders.

I got defenders with generally subpar Strength and Jumping Reach, and thus don't want to invite crosses in. The team is also ill-suited to energetic pressing- does that mean a high D-line is bad? I intend to play a stand-off defense of sorts, relying on keeping shape and making interceptions, but not too close to my goal.

Edited by Bunkerossian

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2 hours ago, Bunkerossian said:

To what extent can great mentals (Anticipation, Decisions, Concentration, Positioning) replace insufficient Acceleration in centre backs?   In the context of wanting to play a high line.

As long as a CB has over 10-11 in pace/acc/agi that's enough for me. For a high defensive line anticipation and positioning are key, with decisions a close second. Concentration helps, but it's really more of an attribute for deep defending, as it primarily affects tackling and marking effectiveness. If using the offside trap, then the value of teamwork also shoots up.

Presumably you are using a high defensive line so that your defenders are involved in the buildup, so even though it doesn't affect defensive solidity directly, for me Composure gains key status as well.

Strictly from a defensive point of view, I think a physical defender such as Manolas will end up being more effective overall than one with strong mentals such as Pavard. But when you take into account what each offers in build up phase, it really is a no-contest in favor of the latter mould. 

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45 minutes ago, Bunkerossian said:

I got defenders with generally subpar Strength and Jumping Reach, and thus don't want to invite crosses in. The team is also ill-suited to energetic pressing- does that mean a high D-line is bad?

Sustained pressure is a must for a high defensive line, giving your opposition uncontested time on the ball will leave you vulnerable to accurate balls over the top of your defense. With a high def line you want to force the opposition to hoof the ball and then rely on your player's anticipation and positioning to intercept it.

You could just go for a standard def line/standard line of engagement setup and see how it goes for a few matches. Otherwise, it's a pick your poison type of situation and you need to decide which of the weaknesses is bigger, but also which route fits better with the rest of your tactic.

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3 minutes ago, SD said:

You could just go for a standard def line/standard line of engagement setup and see how it goes for a few matches

@Bunkerossian  I would say this is the best answer you can get at the moment :thup:

 

58 minutes ago, Bunkerossian said:

I got defenders with generally subpar Strength and Jumping Reach, and thus don't want to invite crosses in

Then you could try with wider def width (certainly not narrower). But in that case, having someone in a DM position (like anchor man for example) would be worth considering, to help defend against balls through the middle, where there is likely to be a bit more space for the opposition to exploit, especially if your CBs aren't of high quality.

 

1 hour ago, Bunkerossian said:

I intend to play a stand-off defense of sorts, relying on keeping shape and making interceptions, but not too close to my goal.

Well... standard DL, standard (or slightly lower LOE) and normal or slightly less urgent pressing, coupled with a lower mentality (e.g. cautious) should do the job. A lower DL would invite too much pressure for your defense too handle, while a higher one would increase the risk of balls over the top. Then you can make slight tweaks depending on the type of opponent you are playing against in a given match.

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2 hours ago, herne79 said:

Yeh it's just terms such as "override" or "ignore" that's too strong.  You already said the important part in your original reply:

:thup:

Thanks for the replies.

Just so I am crystal clear here, would it be reasobly accurate to think of it in this way (again using dribbling as the example) when planning tactics/roles:

Player with 'dribble often' PPM  = +3 dribbling

'Dribble often' PI = +2 dribbling

'Dribble less' TI = -1 dribbling

My interest here is to try to work out the best way to try to manage dribbling on my players as I am noticing that they lose possession too often when attempting dribbles (defenders seem to be a bit OP in executing successful tackles on dribbling players, even those with good dribbling related stats). When combined with the crossing issue, I'm finding this particularly difficult to manage with winger roles.

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Just need clarification whether the following still occurs 'under the hood' in the match engine OR whether it is now separate i.e. Mentalities, Defensive Line, LOE.

So, in the previous versions of FM, if you'd changed your mentality from say Attacking to Counter, your DL would also change to a 'deeper' setting.

However, now and from reading I am not 100% sure whether this is still the case or not as DL and the new addition of LOW being introduced whether the mentality is just the risk setting and the DL and LOE now adjusts how high/low your DL is and the LOE sets the engagement?

Many thanks.

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12 hours ago, dz47 said:

Thanks for the replies.

Just so I am crystal clear here, would it be reasobly accurate to think of it in this way (again using dribbling as the example) when planning tactics/roles:

Player with 'dribble often' PPM  = +3 dribbling

'Dribble often' PI = +2 dribbling

'Dribble less' TI = -1 dribbling

My interest here is to try to work out the best way to try to manage dribbling on my players as I am noticing that they lose possession too often when attempting dribbles (defenders seem to be a bit OP in executing successful tackles on dribbling players, even those with good dribbling related stats). When combined with the crossing issue, I'm finding this particularly difficult to manage with winger roles.

To my understanding, a player with 'dribbles often' is going to dribble more than average, tactical instructions describe where you set that average.

I'm going to tag @Jack Joyce here as he will be more knowledgeable on the subject than I am.

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1 hour ago, Seb Wassell said:

To my understanding, a player with 'dribbles often' is going to dribble more than average, tactical instructions describe where you set that average.

I'm going to tag @Jack Joyce here as he will be more knowledgeable on the subject than I am.

This is correct, however I've made a note to look in to this further when I get the time to make 100% sure since you're having problems getting them to dribble less from the sounds of it.

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On 06/02/2019 at 04:47, jbutton said:

My team is quite small and we concede relentlessly from heading mistakes either missed headers or my players will try to head the ball under no pressure but instead of finding a teammate they will always head it to the opposition, any ways to stop this? 

 

Example; The other team will lump the ball forward, the ball goes straight to my defence who have around 10 metres of space to take the ball down and pass it but instead they will try header it clear but they will just head it straight to their striker who will run in and score. 

I've noticed this quite a lot as well and it get fairly infuriating, as a player can have quite a bit of space and invariably attempts to play head tennis with an opposition player further up the pitch when it seems like if your only option is a largely uncontrolled header, your best bet would be to put it into touch.

Is this something that you can put down to Technique/Decisions or is this more of an ME issue?

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1 hour ago, scratchmonkey said:

Is this something that you can put down to Technique/Decisions

Sure, plus heading, composure, first touch (lack of) and a bunch of other things. But in general I think it happens too often, especially with top players who ought to be capable.

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8 hours ago, Jack Joyce said:

This is correct, however I've made a note to look in to this further when I get the time to make 100% sure since you're having problems getting them to dribble less from the sounds of it.

Thanks, I'd appreciate that. Yeah basically I have a wide player with no dribbling related PPMs, but who has pretty balanced stats (dribbling, passing, physicals etc). If I play him as a winger or IF he dribbles much more than I want him to (ie gets dispossessed or dribbles when I'd prefer him to make a pass). I don't really want to play him as a wide playmaker. My workaround has been to play him deeper as a wide mid (because that role allows more PIs to be adjusted) which has been ok, but changes the team shape from what I really want. I really just wanted to get a confirmation on the relationship/weighting between TIs, PIs and PPMs so I can make a more informed decision about how to set up.

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When selecting the 'focus play' (left right or centre) TI, I'm aware that it increases the mentality of the players in that area. Is that all it does, or does it have other effects under the hood - encouraging players to pass to that area etc?

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42 minutes ago, That There Phil said:

When selecting the 'focus play' (left right or centre) TI, I'm aware that it increases the mentality of the players in that area. Is that all it does, or does it have other effects under the hood - encouraging players to pass to that area etc?

As for the increase in mentality, it does not increase the mentalities of all players in the area but just of deeper ones. For example, focus down a flank increases only the mentality of the fullback/wing-back, not the winger/wide midfielder. Likewise, focus through the middle increases the mentality of your CBs (and possibly a DM, if you have any, but not quite sure on DMs). Under the hood, it should encourage players to focus their passing a bit more in that area of the pitch, but their passing decisions will also be affected (at least in part) by how opposition are defending (if they leave too little space in central areas for example, your players will not be able to focus play there as much as you would like them to, even if the TI is activated).

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Stupid question alert from a noob...

Im playing a 4-1-2-1-2 tika taka with Leeds: two BPD’s (Defend), FB (Support) and WB (Attack). Midfield I have a DLP (Defend) playing behind 2 x AP’s (Support and Attack). I’ve then got two wingers attacking and a complete forward.

If, for example I have a player who is stronger as an IF than a Winger should I be playing to his strengths? Or should I be sticking to the player roles?

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13 minutes ago, Richantsmith86 said:

Im playing a 4-1-2-1-2 tika taka with Leeds: two BPD’s (Defend), FB (Support) and WB (Attack). Midfield I have a DLP (Defend) playing behind 2 x AP’s (Support and Attack). I’ve then got two wingers attacking and a complete forward.

Wait a minute... you meant 4141dm wide (or 4123dm wide, as it was called back in FM18)?

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What I’m getting at, is for example I have two BPD’s as part of my formation. If I bring Liam Cooper into the team for example, BPD is not his natural game. Should I be re-training players to meet the demands of the formation or change Liam Cooper’s role in the team (No Nonsense Defender) ? 

Also how many different formations should be used? I’m just using 1 at the moment but my Assistant is warning me! 

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31 minutes ago, Richantsmith86 said:

What I’m getting at, is for example I have two BPD’s as part of my formation. If I bring Liam Cooper into the team for example, BPD is not his natural game. Should I be re-training players to meet the demands of the formation or change Liam Cooper’s role in the team (No Nonsense Defender) ? 

Also how many different formations should be used? I’m just using 1 at the moment but my Assistant is warning me! 

Asking a player to do something (ie., his role) is very different from a player being able to perform that role in the manner you would like (ie., his attributes).

Any player can play any role, they'll just play it differently from other players due to their different attributes.  I don't know Cooper's attributes but if you want him to play as a BPD then try him out.  If he doesn't perform the role how you would like him to and it affects your team's performance, then change his role.

And if you only want to use one formation then go for it.  You're in charge, not your Assistant :thup:.

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53 minutes ago, Richantsmith86 said:

... Also how many different formations should be used? I’m just using 1 at the moment but my Assistant is warning me! 

If you put copies of the one tactic that you want to use in slots two and three then assistant will stop telling you to use more than one tactic.

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I use a CF(s) up top and wanted to change his individual pressing instructions; I wanted him to chase like a mad dog for a while. 

I can't? The settings only allowed me to press "less" or "standard"? 

Please tell me I just overlooked something? It can't be that rigid? 

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3 minutes ago, Footix said:

I use a CF(s) up top and wanted to change his individual pressing instructions; I wanted him to chase like a mad dog for a while. 

I can't? The settings only allowed me to press "less" or "standard"? 

Please tell me I just overlooked something? It can't be that rigid? 

It's all related to your team instructions - level of pressing intensity, line of engagement etc. so there'll be something in the combo of team instructions that means you can't add more pressing to the individual player. I have a CF-Su and I could put his pressing up one notch, but that's because I didn't have any team pressing.

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What's the difference between a AM(s) with get further forward ticked and the AM(A) which already has it in? Sorry if it's been asked before. 

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Pretty sure AM(a) has a higher mentality and some other PIs not available/adjustable.

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5 hours ago, Elitee said:

What's the difference between a AM(s) with get further forward ticked and the AM(A) which already has it in? Sorry if it's been asked before. 

 

5 hours ago, dz47 said:

Pretty sure AM(a) has a higher mentality and some other PIs not available/adjustable.

AM-At has a higher mentality, and Get Further Forward can't be un-selected for it. 

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Bit of a dumb one but does using the dribble less shout makes players with PI's to dribble more often just dribble in the normal setting? or does the TI only work on players with no dribbling setting on their selected roles?

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Is there any benefit in only keeping the really (really) good players in your Youth Intake each year?  I could see that fewer players in the U18 squad means more time with the coaches but I don't know if that is modelled in the game.

Obviously the other benefit to fewer players is less wages being paid, though U18 wages are pretty low anyway.

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