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Stupid Questions Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)

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It was a question, thanks for answering.

I have another one. Is sit narrower something you guys normally ask your APM's or IF's to do? Thanks

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1 hour ago, mikcheck said:

Is sit narrower something you guys normally ask your APM's or IF's to do? Thanks

Not necessarily. Sometimes yes, sometimes not. Depends on what you want to achieve in a particular match or situation. For example, if I want my IF/APM on support to be more involved in creating scoring chances and/or to make more space for the fullback to overlap, I'll tell him to sit narrower, but in that case I'll also look at his off the ball, composure and first touch because central areas of the attacking third are naturally more congested so it would make it easier for the opposition to press and tackle him than if he is in a wider position. Also if he has good passing and vision, sit narrower can be a good choice because from a more central position he would be more likely to make good passes into space for either my striker(s) or someone running into the area from a deeper position. And if I want my IF to be my main attacking threat, I can also tell him to sit narrower and give him the attack duty. As a matter of fact, how I will play my IF or APM depends on my overall tactic, formation and other players' roles and duties. So you always need to put things into context when making any tactical decision, not only regarding IF or APM.

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Tactics -> Analysis -> Assist Locations

I don't usually delve into the analysis tab, but with the feeling of the BETA being cross heavy I have created a tactic trying to purposefully avoid assists from crosses. 

The tactic is playing very well and i'm scoring mostly the kind of goals I am after. 

The assist location screen highlights this. When you take out my goals from corners and free kicks (5+4) it leaves only 5 goals out of 42 (33 without set pieces) in total coming from the flanks. 

However, the left hand side of the screen muddies the waters and the numbers don't make sense to me. Not sure if it's always been this way, is it a bug? i.e. The right hand image says I've had 6 assists from within my own half, yet the information on the left says I have no assists from long ball or medium range passes - not sure how those 6 assists are slotted into through balls or crosses though? 

The image shows a further 22 (15+7) assists from central areas - but if you add up the remaining info lines - through pass (10) mistakes (6) short pass (3) again it doesn't tally up

571431848_assistlocation.thumb.PNG.8b8460df4fa3ff9ebd98a76c8f49faf0.PNG

For a flavour of the goals see below. I could post more but if I stick with this save I may do a thread on 'the art of eviscerating Eddie Howe's legacy' :D 

 

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With the new Counter Team Instructions, has anything changed under the hood regarding counters?

On past games, if you had a numerical advantage going forward, the counter would kick in, players would have a boost in mentality & bomb forward with a higher tempo & more direct passing etc You'd get the commentary line that the team is on counter

Now, if I use the "counter when the ball has been won" instruction, does the counter boost kick in from that point or only with the numerical advantage?

Part two of the question, if I set a shorter passing instruction (same applies to tempo & team mentality I guess) when we start a counter, does the passing go more direct (faster tempo, attacking mentality etc)? 

I'm just playing around with it now in a test save but it would be interesting to get an answer 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, mikcheck said:

It was a question, thanks for answering.

I have another one. Is sit narrower something you guys normally ask your APM's or IF's to do? Thanks

Back in FM18 I made those adjustments depending on opposition's formation.

If they employed a DM I left the default settings and let those players work the half spaces.

If they operated without a one, say in a 442 or 4231, it is then I instructed my wide players to sit narrower.

It's important to note that even without this instruction, a wide AP will still naturally drift centrally or drop deeper to some degree - visibly more so than an IF(S), for example.

In FM19 I took the other route and moved both wide players to AM - using AP(S) alongside SS(A), with the SS being instructed to sit wider and a midfield BBM on the opposite side asked to do the same.

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16 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

With the new Counter Team Instructions, has anything changed under the hood regarding counters?

On past games, if you had a numerical advantage going forward, the counter would kick in, players would have a boost in mentality & bomb forward with a higher tempo & more direct passing etc You'd get the commentary line that the team is on counter

Now, if I use the "counter when the ball has been won" instruction, does the counter boost kick in from that point or only with the numerical advantage?

Part two of the question, if I set a shorter passing instruction (same applies to tempo & team mentality I guess) when we start a counter, does the passing go more direct (faster tempo, attacking mentality etc)? 

I'm just playing around with it now in a test save but it would be interesting to get an answer

I haven't seen this explicitly put this way by someone from SI, but just like all other team instructions, the counter/hold shape settings are not hard and fast rules but tendencies.

With Counter active, a team will have a lower threshold for trying a counter, but it will still hold shape on occasion.

With Hold Shape active, a team will still counter on occasion, just that it has a higher threshold for attempting one so it needs to be a clear cut opportunity.

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3 hours ago, SD said:

I haven't seen this explicitly put this way by someone from SI, but just like all other team instructions, the counter/hold shape settings are not hard and fast rules but tendencies.

With Counter active, a team will have a lower threshold for trying a counter, but it will still hold shape on occasion.

With Hold Shape active, a team will still counter on occasion, just that it has a higher threshold for attempting one so it needs to be a clear cut opportunity.

 

Cheers pal, yeah I get that, these are team instructions, what you want your players doing not what they're going to do 100% of the time. I think that's why people get frustrated at times, they ask a player to shoot less, the team to work the ball into the box then get annoyed when I player takes a long shot, it's because the player had no other option but take the shot

Anyway, I think I've answered one of my questions:

Now, if I use the "counter when the ball has been won" instruction, does the counter boost kick in from that point or only with the numerical advantage?

I'm pretty sure they only counter when the counter is on, they'll stick to TI's if they isn't one on 

* ETA I've just seen a counter, with the commentary line with a 2 v 3, my LM & STR v their 2 DC's & DM

*ETA & another with 1 v 4, something has changed 

 

 

Edited by Johnny Ace

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3 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

these are team instructions, what you want your players doing not what they're going to do 100% of the time. I think that's why people get frustrated at times, they ask a player to shoot less, the team to work the ball into the box then get annoyed when I player takes a long shot, it's because the player had no other option but take the shot

I simply had to quote this. Completely spot on :thup:

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Is there any way to have an attacking full/wing back that doesn't cross all the time or run wide with the ball? I want Jordi Alba to play at least somewhat like he does in real life but it doesn't seem possible in fm19. Even WB(S) has 'run wide with ball' hardcoded this year 

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I’m wondering if anyone could explain why it’s recommended to have a runner, a creator and a destroyer in a midfield 3? Could you do without one of those?

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36 minutes ago, Armistice said:

I’m wondering if anyone could explain why it’s recommended to have a runner, a creator and a destroyer in a midfield 3? Could you do without one of those?

Probably for balance. It doesn't have to be a "destroyer" per se. It could be a sitting midfielder. I think you definitely need one of those. Which role you think you can do without? It depends how the rest of the team is set up.

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3 hours ago, yonko said:

Probably for balance. It doesn't have to be a "destroyer" per se. It could be a sitting midfielder. I think you definitely need one of those. Which role you think you can do without? It depends how the rest of the team is set up.

I dunno, as you said depending on the rest of the team, I really want to try two inside forwards (or at least one inside forward and a raumd) and two aggressive wingbacks for width since wingers are not my type so I don't think an aggressive runner like a CM-A would help me a lot given how I'd want to set up. But then again people would say having two players who cut inside and two fullbacks who do the same aggressive runs will probably lead to predictability...

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5 hours ago, Armistice said:

I’m wondering if anyone could explain why it’s recommended to have a runner, a creator and a destroyer in a midfield 3? Could you do without one of those?

You dont need a mixture. Its a good way to find balance... But as i showed in the leverkusen series, you can use your midfield to all defend, all support or all attack... Or a mixture. You just need the right players and roles to pull it off. One thing that never changes is that to score goals you need to get the ball to your attackers. So whilst you dont need a 'creator' (which implies a playmaker or winger or a support midfield) you do need a logical plan. If all three cms are on defend duty with no players between the lines like amc...you would get little joy from short passing and low tempo... As the gap between mid and attack would be significant

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22 hours ago, mikcheck said:

It was a question, thanks for answering.

I have another one. Is sit narrower something you guys normally ask your APM's or IF's to do? Thanks

Only if you don't have numbers coming into advanced central areas. If you play a 4-3-3 with an advanced playmaker, or 4-2-3-1, then no. 

If you want something closer to 3 out and out strikers and a deep lying midfield. . Then yeah 

The key thing is: are they moving into unoccupied central space (playing without an advanced play maker or DLF(s)... Or are they moving into occupied space (the opposite of that).

Edited by pauly15

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21 horas atrás, Experienced Defender disse:

Not necessarily. Sometimes yes, sometimes not. Depends on what you want to achieve in a particular match or situation. For example, if I want my IF/APM on support to be more involved in creating scoring chances and/or to make more space for the fullback to overlap, I'll tell him to sit narrower, but in that case I'll also look at his off the ball, composure and first touch because central areas of the attacking third are naturally more congested so it would make it easier for the opposition to press and tackle him than if he is in a wider position. Also if he has good passing and vision, sit narrower can be a good choice because from a more central position he would be more likely to make good passes into space for either my striker(s) or someone running into the area from a deeper position. And if I want my IF to be my main attacking threat, I can also tell him to sit narrower and give him the attack duty. As a matter of fact, how I will play my IF or APM depends on my overall tactic, formation and other players' roles and duties. So you always need to put things into context when making any tactical decision, not only regarding IF or APM.

Thanks for your input! That makes sense.

20 horas atrás, SD disse:

Back in FM18 I made those adjustments depending on opposition's formation.

If they employed a DM I left the default settings and let those players work the half spaces.

If they operated without a one, say in a 442 or 4231, it is then I instructed my wide players to sit narrower.

It's important to note that even without this instruction, a wide AP will still naturally drift centrally or drop deeper to some degree - visibly more so than an IF(S), for example.

In FM19 I took the other route and moved both wide players to AM - using AP(S) alongside SS(A), with the SS being instructed to sit wider and a midfield BBM on the opposite side asked to do the same.

Thanks! Yes using that as an advantage against teams who don't deploy a DM is a good choice. I also noticed that APM comes too much to the centre, too much for my liking sometimes. I guess that's the nature of the role, he is looking for the ball.

28 minutos atrás, pauly15 disse:

Only if you don't have numbers coming into advanced central areas. If you play a 4-3-3 with an advanced playmaker, or 4-2-3-1, then no. 

If you want something closer to 3 out and out strikers and a deep lying midfield. . Then yeah 

The key thing is: are they moving into unoccupied central space (playing without an advanced play maker or DLF(s)... Or are they moving into occupied space (the opposite of that).

Thanks.

I guess maybe it's not exactly important to use it with this formation, the centre is already crowded. 

 

formation.jpg

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3 hours ago, Armistice said:

I dunno, as you said depending on the rest of the team, I really want to try two inside forwards (or at least one inside forward and a raumd) and two aggressive wingbacks for width since wingers are not my type so I don't think an aggressive runner like a CM-A would help me a lot given how I'd want to set up. But then again people would say having two players who cut inside and two fullbacks who do the same aggressive runs will probably lead to predictability...

I don't think it's unheard of in football to have two attacking fullbacks then maybe an extra sitter in midfield 

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Is there an option to have a player mentor others without him transfering over his PPMs?  I have Christian Eriksen who is a model citizen so a great personality to mentor others however he has the plays one-twos PPM that I don't want on my playmakers since I like to give them the PI more direct passing but that is contradicted by the "plays one-twos".

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1 hour ago, Pedroig said:

Why not untrain him from one-twos?

I've tried but it's been unsuccesful.

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2 hours ago, Jessan said:

Is there an option to have a player mentor others without him transfering over his PPMs?  I have Christian Eriksen who is a model citizen so a great personality to mentor others however he has the plays one-twos PPM that I don't want on my playmakers since I like to give them the PI more direct passing but that is contradicted by the "plays one-twos".

There is no option to disable this, but PPMs transferring to easily was one of the first issues I raised with SI when the beta came out.

Granted, my concern was more towards established players in their 20s picking up too may PPMs.

A young player picking up a PPM from a high ability, well established, older player is an example of the system working as intended.

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14 hours ago, Armistice said:

I dunno, as you said depending on the rest of the team, I really want to try two inside forwards (or at least one inside forward and a raumd) and two aggressive wingbacks for width since wingers are not my type so I don't think an aggressive runner like a CM-A would help me a lot given how I'd want to set up. But then again people would say having two players who cut inside and two fullbacks who do the same aggressive runs will probably lead to predictability...

With two aggressive wingback you definitely need a sitting midfielder, preferably at the DM position. Then it depends if you want him to be more than just that. Anchor role will be the simplest probably. DM-D will ask him to press a bit more and be more active defensively. HB-D will make him shift between the backline and midfield, also be more involved in the build up from the back. DLP-D will see him distribute the ball more and more involved in recycling possession.

The choice of that role will affect what roles you choose further up the field. Actually, every role choice will affect the roles around as well. You just have to start from somewhere.

You can still have a midfield runner with 2 IFs or IF/RMD combo. 

Bottom line is that there are different sitting midfielder roles, different creator roles and different runner roles to choose from. You have to understand what each role does, what it contributes to your tactic, how it interacts with others and how to balance it all out.

Think of real life examples of midfield trios. Who plays what role? Sometimes they change roles from games to game. Sometimes they change roles in the same game even. But try to take one example and see how it might work in FM.

 

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If they have the right attributes, will they suffer at coaching if they're not fully circled for the role?

image.thumb.png.8e1e11115ea1e4d55c98041ffb2c0a5e.png

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What's the best way to approach Premier League survival tactically on FM19? Spent 2 seasons in L1 before promotion followed by 2 seasons in the FLC and have now got to the Prem. Spent my £30m transfer budget on my weakest areas (new Gk, new CB, new LW, new SC) for my trusty 4-2-3-1 gegenpress but I'm getting smashed every week. 7 games in, 1 draw, 6 defeats and a -19 goal difference.

Looking for something now where I can achieve the bare mininum and just ensure survival. 

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1 minute ago, thegr8anand said:

Better to send youth on loan or train at club with best coach/facilities so that they reach their potential?

In the past I'd say keep and train, but who knows with FM19?

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Just now, thegr8anand said:

Better to send youth on loan or train at club with best coach/facilities so that they reach their potential?

Youth is vague. Under 18 and training is more important. Over 18, matches are more important.

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2 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

Youth is vague. Under 18 and training is more important. Over 18, matches are more important.

Is the standard response. But ...... seeing as how training is more closely related to tactics and the manager's football philosophy, would you want to send your player to a club that uses a different philosophy, thus different tactics and different training?

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Just now, phnompenhandy said:

Is the standard response. But ...... seeing as how training is more closely related to tactics and the manager's football philosophy, would you want to send your player to a club that uses a different philosophy, thus different tactics and different training?

Why not? If I'm not going to (or be able to) use him, why not send him somewhere to get game time? If you're worried about different philosophies, send him to a club that has the same or similar ones?

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Just now, HUNT3R said:

Why not? If I'm not going to (or be able to) use him, why not send him somewhere to get game time? If you're worried about different philosophies, send him to a club that has the same or similar ones?

That's fine if you're looking to sell him, but if you intend him to be an integral part of your team in the future, you'd want him to be thoroughly versed in your philosophy, no? No problem if you're City and can set up affiliates that play your way, but otherwise it might not be easy to find the right club.

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Just now, phnompenhandy said:

That's fine if you're looking to sell him, but if you intend him to be an integral part of your team in the future, you'd want him to be thoroughly versed in your philosophy, no? No problem if you're City and can set up affiliates that play your way, but otherwise it might not be easy to find the right club.

If he's "integral" to my future, I'd find a way to incorporate him into the first team or find a club with a similar philosophy at least.

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1 minute ago, HUNT3R said:

If he's "integral" to my future, I'd find a way to incorporate him into the first team or find a club with a similar philosophy at least.

In that case, it Foden't be a problem  :p

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1 hour ago, Axel Foley said:

What's the best way to approach Premier League survival tactically on FM19? Spent 2 seasons in L1 before promotion followed by 2 seasons in the FLC and have now got to the Prem. Spent my £30m transfer budget on my weakest areas (new Gk, new CB, new LW, new SC) for my trusty 4-2-3-1 gegenpress but I'm getting smashed every week. 7 games in, 1 draw, 6 defeats and a -19 goal difference.

Looking for something now where I can achieve the bare mininum and just ensure survival. 

The first thing to do is forget about gegenpress in the PL (unless you are a top team, which you clearly aren't). To tell you more about the rest of your tactic, I would first need to have more detailed info, so if you can provide some screenshot or describe your tactical settings, that would certainly help. Basically, a team that fights for survival in a league should look to avoid playing adventurously, aggressively and (too) offensively. Keeping it as simple as possible is the most logical base to build upon.

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Thanks ED, I guess I just thought it had done me well before hand so I would hopefully get enough points to see me safe and then build the quality of the swuad with a second Prem pre season's worth of cash.

I'm guessing some sort of counter attacking 4-2-3-1 would work better then?

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8 minutes ago, Axel Foley said:

I'm guessing some sort of counter attacking 4-2-3-1 would work better then?

Yes. Maybe even a deep 4231 (with 2 DMs instead of MCs) to give you better defensive cover. In tougher matches you can even go with a 4213 (2 DMs, 1 CM and 2 wing forwards in AM strata). Of course, the formation is just a part of the puzzle. You need to give your players appropriate roles and duties as well. And look to avoid using too many instructions, especially those that would require your players to have really good technical skills and/or tactical awareness (intelligence).

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58 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

Is the standard response. But ...... seeing as how training is more closely related to tactics and the manager's football philosophy, would you want to send your player to a club that uses a different philosophy, thus different tactics and different training?

Development is still about improving the attributes of the player though. And at certain age that happens through game time. Training just distributes the CA gained through the attributes based on the training.

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I am using 4-3-3 with three strikers at Cork City. I am going a hell of a good job. Are 3 strikers that overpowered? I was using a 4-2-4ish a save game ago. Really didn't liked it cause they always rammaed the ball up front and made which vertical long crosses.  But in my new save that 4-3-3 seems OP. 

Naamloos.png

 

Edit: I am now 4-1 at Limerick. :eek:

Edited by RinusFM

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2 hours ago, yonko said:

Development is still about improving the attributes of the player though. And at certain age that happens through game time. Training just distributes the CA gained through the attributes based on the training.

Attributes drive CA, not vice versa.

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How do you improve tactical cohesion?

I am in mid season and it still is average, last year it used reach an acceptable by at most mid september.

Edited by CapaJr

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2 hours ago, Seb Wassell said:

Attributes drive CA, not vice versa.

Doesn't game time increase CA and then training distributes the gains? Or that's old now.

Is training still attributes driven?

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19 minutes ago, yonko said:

Doesn't game time increase CA and then training distributes the gains? Or that's old now.

Is training still attributes driven?

It's the attributes that rise (or fall), CA adjusts accordingly.

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A FM18 question: why is defensive full-back positioned slightly higher on the tactical screen than full-back on defend, given that DFB is the most defensive of all wide defense roles? 

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6 hours ago, yonko said:

Development is still about improving the attributes of the player though. And at certain age that happens through game time. Training just distributes the CA gained through the attributes based on the training.

By staying at the club, I can ensure the gains are in the appropriate attributes for the roles and duties I want for him. By going to another club with a different system, the attribute gains might be where I don't want them.

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How should I respond to defensive teams or high pressing?

Edited by torchibo

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12 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

By staying at the club, I can ensure the gains are in the appropriate attributes for the roles and duties I want for him. By going to another club with a different system, the attribute gains might be where I don't want them.

It's an almost unanimous opinion on this forum that you shouldn't loan out your best prospects.

I myself use loans for 3-4 stars prospects or as a last resort for players behind on their development.

Also, I prefer not to send players on loan lower than one tier below the league I'm in - from experience, a player will progress a lot more playing reserves matches for a Prem team than being a first teamer in the Vanarama.

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3 hours ago, torchibo said:

How should I respond to defensive teams or high pressing?

 

There are different ways, in theory, you have to look at how the defensive team are set, are they narrow? Stretch play & attack the flanks. Are they deep & wide? Pull back your lines & try & draw them out to get behind them. You could slow down the tempo & try & pass your way through , work into the box

If you're being pressed, I look to go more direct, sending long passes over the back line, maybe up the tempo so players aren't dallying on the ball & getting tackled. Look to regroup after losing the ball rather than have your team rush them & get drawn out of possession

I say in theory, as things don't always go to plan :D 

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I let my ass. man take control of the team talks & if I win the game 1-0 when I'm an odds on favourite, he gives the team a rollocking for their "disappointing performance". Is this because we've played rubbish, not given them a tonking or is he keeping them on their toes?

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19 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

 

There are different ways, in theory, you have to look at how the defensive team are set, are they narrow? Stretch play & attack the flanks. Are they deep & wide? Pull back your lines & try & draw them out to get behind them. You could slow down the tempo & try & pass your way through , work into the box

If you're being pressed, I look to go more direct, sending long passes over the back line, maybe up the tempo so players aren't dallying on the ball & getting tackled. Look to regroup after losing the ball rather than have your team rush them & get drawn out of possession

I say in theory, as things don't always go to plan :D 

Thanks.

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I've got two questions, one is about underlaps, is it about fullbacks making inside runs instead of outside runs or is it about midfielders doing that? What if you have a conservative fullback (or midfielder since I don't know which one is affected)? And the other question is about When possession has been won, there's Counter and Hold Shape, is Counter like it used to be when there were sliders like you increase the chances of countering when specific requirements are met?

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In addition to my first team I've got a small reserve team plus a youth team. All my reserve coaches coach the first team. Is there any disadvantage to moving all of my reserve players into the first team? If I do this then I can add the present reserves to the first team mentoring groups.

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