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Stupid Questions Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)

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Having trouble conceding goals due to man-marking duties being screwed up by opposition changes in formation. Am I missing something in how I'm setting things up?

So for instance, I set my wide men to mark mark the oppositions wide midfielders, but then we score, they shift to playing with two wingers, and suddenly one of my wide men is now marking a central midfielder, they immediately play a long crossfield pass, and their unmarked winger scores at the back post.

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2 minutes ago, dojoneil said:

Having trouble conceding goals due to man-marking duties being screwed up by opposition changes in formation. Am I missing something in how I'm setting things up?

So for instance, I set my wide men to mark mark the oppositions wide midfielders, but then we score, they shift to playing with two wingers, and suddenly one of my wide men is now marking a central midfielder, they immediately play a long crossfield pass, and their unmarked winger scores at the back post.

Keep the formation widget open and as soon as they change, go to your tactics and make the changes. Either take them off specific marking duties or change them to mark a specific player at game start so even if he moves up to an AM winger he'll be covered, or manually change as soon as you can get the tactics screen open.

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18 minutes ago, Dr. Hook said:

Keep the formation widget open and as soon as they change, go to your tactics and make the changes. Either take them off specific marking duties or change them to mark a specific player at game start so even if he moves up to an AM winger he'll be covered, or manually change as soon as you can get the tactics screen open.

Even with their formation up on screen, if they shift immediately after we score, then any subsequent change I make has to wait until the ball goes out of play. Already dropped 4 points this season while waiting for that to happen (and it's only Oct 2nd).

Been setting marking duties after kick-off and not pre-game, but I've just tried that and it seems to make no difference, my wide player still starts to mark a central midfielder. Hmm, there must be something else I'm missing, it's hardly the most complex thing in the world.

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1 minute ago, dojoneil said:

Even with their formation up on screen, if they shift immediately after we score, then any subsequent change I make has to wait until the ball goes out of play. Already dropped 4 points this season while waiting for that to happen (and it's only Oct 2nd).

Been setting marking duties after kick-off and not pre-game, but I've just tried that and it seems to make no difference, my wide player still starts to mark a central midfielder. Hmm, there must be something else I'm missing, it's hardly the most complex thing in the world.

It can be frustrating not to be able to change on the instant with something like that- I wish it were possible to do. I have been burned a few times by not being able to make a change I wanted until the ball went out of play. What about marking the specific man? Have you tried that? Another thing would be not to mark anyone specific, but set the player you want to mark to tight marking and he will naturally stick close to the man that it is in his zone.

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7 minutes ago, Dr. Hook said:

It can be frustrating not to be able to change on the instant with something like that- I wish it were possible to do. I have been burned a few times by not being able to make a change I wanted until the ball went out of play. What about marking the specific man? Have you tried that? Another thing would be not to mark anyone specific, but set the player you want to mark to tight marking and he will naturally stick close to the man that it is in his zone.

Yeah, there must be a setting that mimics the "mark the most advanced player on your flank" instruction you'd perhaps give a player irl. Difficulty is that the defensive positions of my wide players is quite advanced so I'm using marking duties to force them to sit deeper and cover the opposing wingers. I'll have a play with marking duties and see what happens. Cheers for the suggestions.

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35 minutes ago, dojoneil said:

Yeah, there must be a setting that mimics the "mark the most advanced player on your flank" instruction you'd perhaps give a player irl. Difficulty is that the defensive positions of my wide players is quite advanced so I'm using marking duties to force them to sit deeper and cover the opposing wingers. I'll have a play with marking duties and see what happens. Cheers for the suggestions.

Just to play devil's advocate here for a moment - if you are using man marking to force your advanced wide players to sit deeper, it's possible you are using the wrong role/duty for those players and/or an overly aggressive mentality.

By forcing them deeper you may be taking away their attacking positioning (they're starting deeper when you transition from defence to attack), so why not just use support duty players in the first place?  They'll track back better, your players won't get pulled out of shape and you don't need to worry about opposition formation changes either.  And if you feel like they aren't getting forward enough in attack, PIs can help there.

Perhaps something to try out if all that man marking doesn't work as you want.

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If I choose Control Mentality and with TI Close Down Sometimes, I can set my defensive line to be higher. But if a Increase Close Down one notch (More) my defensive line automaticaly changes to Slighty Higher. I'm sure there is some logic here that I'm missing. The curious thing is that this only happens with Control Mentality.

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1 hour ago, pedrosantos said:

If I choose Control Mentality and with TI Close Down Sometimes, I can set my defensive line to be higher. But if a Increase Close Down one notch (More) my defensive line automaticaly changes to Slighty Higher. I'm sure there is some logic here that I'm missing. The curious thing is that this only happens with Control Mentality.

Probably just an interface bug 

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On 2/19/2017 at 00:38, herne79 said:

Just to play devil's advocate here for a moment - if you are using man marking to force your advanced wide players to sit deeper, it's possible you are using the wrong role/duty for those players and/or an overly aggressive mentality.

I wondered if anyone would query this :) I'm experimenting with O-zil to the Arsenal's 3-4-3 at the moment, and like others I've found my team vulnerable to the opposition playing long diagonals to the flanks. After trying a few other things, I discovered that getting my wingers to man-mark opposition wingers solves the problem and turns them into real box-to-box players, their W-A role/duty encouraging them to get forward, and the man-marking forcing them to track back diligently rather than staying up the pitch.

Only problem is the issue detailed above. Beginning to suspect it's a bug though, because my right winger is always on the correct oppo player, but for some reason a formation shift for the opposition sends my left winger into a marking duty on a central midfielder.  Can't think of a reason why that would be intentional unless it's tracking the TC shirt (rather than the player if you see what I mean), but then why would you want that to happen?

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I have a question about striker duties and partnership.  I always assumed that in a 2 striker formation you would have one striker on support, being the creator and linking the midfield and attack, and the other striker on attack, as a finisher or someone who leads the line.  However recently I find myself interested in the Trequartista role as a striker but I'm having trouble with thinking of the best role to partner him with, since the Treq is a creator he needs a finisher beside him so I was thinking poacher.  But I find that having 2 strikers on attack means they get isolated in attacking transitions even with an attacking midfielder on support behind them.  So I was wondering if a complete forward on support duty could be the main goalthreat of a team(I don't think a DLF or DF would be enough of a goalthreat)?  Or does anyone have experience with a good partnership with a trequartista?

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53 minutes ago, Jessan said:

I have a question about striker duties and partnership.  I always assumed that in a 2 striker formation you would have one striker on support, being the creator and linking the midfield and attack, and the other striker on attack, as a finisher or someone who leads the line.  However recently I find myself interested in the Trequartista role as a striker but I'm having trouble with thinking of the best role to partner him with, since the Treq is a creator he needs a finisher beside him so I was thinking poacher.  But I find that having 2 strikers on attack means they get isolated in attacking transitions even with an attacking midfielder on support behind them.  So I was wondering if a complete forward on support duty could be the main goalthreat of a team(I don't think a DLF or DF would be enough of a goalthreat)?  Or does anyone have experience with a good partnership with a trequartista?

A TQ can work with pretty much anything, although personally I tend to play mine in the AM position where they can be devastating as both the main playmaker and a goal scoring threat.

34 minutes ago, OhHoopedOne said:

Is there a way within the current training system to improve a goalkeeper's ability at one v ones with training?

Yes, it's part of the individual goalkeeper training for either the Goalkeeper or Sweeper Keeper roles.  However, there is no specific focus training for 1v1s.

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I'm confusing myself here!

uOCu2.png

Team is predicted 4th with above average technicals and work rate. Defence is solid and one CB aside averagely quick.

I want us to play possession football with some urgency in the final third. So from the keeper up to Fleck or even higher slow, controlled, risk free. Then we try to open teams up which we're not going to do if we're just passing sideways.

I think what I need to do then is use a mentality with lower risk - either standard or counter. TI play out of defence (with GK PI).

Looking at my roles (and the fact that most teams should sit deep) that should see lots of safe possession? 

I said I wanted some urgency in the final third, some players aiming to take the game to the opponents. Therefore is the best way to do this to add more attacking duties or do I have enough? I know I only have one but an inside forward is fairly offensive and wingers run at defences on support too. Then I have Carruthers acting like a second striker (I think) and Fleck fairly close too. I don't want to get done on the counter.

Speaking of getting done on the counter, low risk mentality plus those defensive 6 (with Fleck) should see us in a good shape in the transitions. Another reason as to putting Carruthers on attack and leaving the wide players on support is to have them tuck back in quickly. I think I can leave shape on flexible because I need a bit of creativity but not too much for my possession aim, and fluid may be too much but at the same time structured may see my front four stuck up the pitch in transitions.

So to clarify I've talked myself into adding: counter mentality, play out of defence TI, and GK distribution PI. What does anyone think?

TI under consideration:

Short passing + work ball into box - but I'd like to think they are intelligent enough to do this anyway.

Push higher up + Close down - I quite like the idea of a solid defensive base yet these would help possession stats and controlling the game.

I think I just needed a place to write down my thoughts? Am I talking jibberish?

 

 

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1 hour ago, herne79 said:

 

Yes, it's part of the individual goalkeeper training for either the Goalkeeper or Sweeper Keeper roles.  However, there is no specific focus training for 1v1s.

so the answer to my question is no, there isn't a way to get your goalkeeper to work on and improve upon his ability at one v ones. It's more a case of crossing my fingers and hoping he improves this ability over time as opposed to giving him a specific training exercise and expecting him to improve?

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3 hours ago, OhHoopedOne said:

so the answer to my question is no, there isn't a way to get your goalkeeper to work on and improve upon his ability at one v ones. It's more a case of crossing my fingers and hoping he improves this ability over time as opposed to giving him a specific training exercise and expecting him to improve?

You've been given this answer before.

It's individual focus training. You're giving an individual something to focus on. To train 1v1s, there will need to be another "1" (it's in the name)  which won't happen if the player is on his own. 

The training module will need to change for this to be possible.

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51 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

You've been given this answer before.

It's individual focus training. You're giving an individual something to focus on. To train 1v1s, there will need to be another "1" (it's in the name)  which won't happen if the player is on his own. 

The training module will need to change for this to be possible.

I only asked again because herne79 seemed to miss what I was asking and as a result his answer wasn't the clearest. All I was doing was trying to clear up the confusion surrounding both the original question and the answer I was given

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Just now, OhHoopedOne said:

I only asked again because herne79 seemed to miss what I was asking and as a result his answer wasn't the clearest. All I was doing was trying to clear up the confusion surrounding both the original question and the answer I was given

This was discussed in the Feature Requests section.

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Just now, HUNT3R said:

This was discussed in the Feature Requests section.

Yes it was, by me and only me. I was just double checking here that i hadn't missed out on something and that there wasn't a way of improving this attribute in some way through training

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Just out of interest, how do AI coaches train a player's leadership if set as individual training? Is it a case of telling a player to stand in front of a mirror and practice their speech

Edited by OhHoopedOne

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6 hours ago, OhHoopedOne said:

so the answer to my question is no, there isn't a way to get your goalkeeper to work on and improve upon his ability at one v ones. It's more a case of crossing my fingers and hoping he improves this ability over time as opposed to giving him a specific training exercise and expecting him to improve?

No.  The answer to your question is yes, there is a way to get your GK to work on and improve his 1v1s, as I detailed above.

Selecting either Goalkeeper or Sweeper Keeper specific role training will get him to train his 1v1s attribute, along with other relevant attributes needed for the role.  That's very different to crossing your fingers and hoping he improves over time.

There is a second separate aspect to individual player training which is the ability to select a specific attribute focus to train, in addition to the individual role training mentioned above.  That's the part where you cannot choose a 1v1s focus - but so long as you select the Goal Keeper or Sweeper Keeper role training (as mentioned above), 1v1s will be trained.

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Can someone please clarify the Roam From Positions and Stick To Positions team instructions for me? Why would one pick Stick To Positions in a Very Fluid system or Roam From Positions in a Very Structured system, for example? I kinda get the Be More Expressive and Be More Disciplined ones, although creative freedom is also part of the fluidity (I imagine you'd pick Be More Disciplined in a Very Fluid system, if you wanted to keep the movement, but wanted players to be given less creative freedom, due to poor mentals, for example). I don't however get why would one restrict the movement in a Very Fluid system for example, when the movement is the whole point of it.

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1 hour ago, MeMyself2k13 said:

Can someone please clarify the Roam From Positions and Stick To Positions team instructions for me? Why would one pick Stick To Positions in a Very Fluid system or Roam From Positions in a Very Structured system, for example? I kinda get the Be More Expressive and Be More Disciplined ones, although creative freedom is also part of the fluidity (I imagine you'd pick Be More Disciplined in a Very Fluid system, if you wanted to keep the movement, but wanted players to be given less creative freedom, due to poor mentals, for example). I don't however get why would one restrict the movement in a Very Fluid system for example, when the movement is the whole point of it.

You have to remember that the key point of shape is not the creative freedom one, but the movement in transitions. Read any of the recent, excellent shape discussions if this is unclear. With that in mind, you might play a fluid system which is vertically more compact with players becoming  more involved in transitions, yet you might not want them to stray too far from your formation. You might choose this to counter a specific AI formation either defensively or offensively. Conversely, you could use roam on a structured system to create more movement without getting completely away from the mentality splits you want.

That said, it is far more useful for me to use instructions like that on an individual basis.

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2 hours ago, Dr. Hook said:

You have to remember that the key point of shape is not the creative freedom one, but the movement in transitions. Read any of the recent, excellent shape discussions if this is unclear.

Can you please share a link? Thanks!

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42 minutes ago, MeMyself2k13 said:

Can you please share a link? Thanks!

 

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On 2/17/2017 at 16:46, Marc.Foster050 said:

Around 8-10 moan at a time. I have quite a small first team squad and my scouts say they are determined and professional (Although they obviously aren't showing them qualities). I Am happy to let them moan as they are never tired and in need of a rest its just a little niggly thing I was wondering if there was a quick fix. I think I need an assistant who doesn't talk to me

is there not a box to un tick when you set what staff to recieve info from, and how often? been a while since i played around with it, but pretty sure you can just unselect training messages in there if that helps? depends if you dont want to know if there would be a different more important message some time

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Does it cost ca decrease to train a player for a position where he is accomplished? Isn't it a bad feature of the game? I have a player whose natural position is attacking midfielder and Best role is ap, I make him play on the midfielder as ap( it shows he is accomplished there-dark green) but when I train him on midfielder position as ap,  his all attributes decreases despite he has been performing very well in matches.So my question is,  is it better not to train a player for a position where he  is already accomplished? 

Edited by whoopy

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1 hour ago, superdave said:

What is this?

I hid the chart for the time being- it came up earlier in the thread, but it isn't really clear where the information came from. It appears to be from the old slider system from years ago and then correlated somehow with the current match engine, but doesn't really make a lot of sense at first glance. I'll let Green Triangle explain where he got the data and how he created the chart, what it is supposed to show, and we'll go from there.

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On ‎23‎/‎02‎/‎2017 at 23:20, D_LO_ said:

What makes the ball-playing defender position so specialist? Looking at the instructions all it involves is short, risky passing. Logically I would have thought a centre-back with poor-average passing ability should really only be instructed in making short passes too though to retain possession or at least ensure they operate within their own limitations or am I to believe they aren't capable of short passes?  Arguably it's only the risk factor which should differ but how risky can short passes be? Surely from that area of the field the risk would comfortably out-weigh the reward? IRL clearly the role entails a lot more 'expression' but does FM really reflect this considering it 'holds position' and 'dribble more' would need to be selected manually? 

Only after giving it a bit of thought am I starting to feel the description is a bit arbitrary.  Am I wrong? 

 

On ‎24‎/‎02‎/‎2017 at 01:59, superdave said:

Yeah, I haven't been able to discern any difference for a BPD vs. a CD.

 

The ball playing defender does NOT have short passing as a hardcoded player instruction. It would need to be added.

Infact the only central defender role with passing distance hardcoded is the defensive centre back that has direct passes as they clear the ball away from danger.

The ball playing defender is the ONLY central defender role that has risky passes. The other two roles have "fewer risky" passes hardcoded and no option of instructing them to play risky passes.

A ball playing defender is ideal in counter attacking situations because they generally have the ability (and instruction in the game) to deliver a ball that potentially unlocks an opposition defense with a high line for example.

While in theory the other defensive roles could also play those passes, they will do so far less often. After all any instruction that tells a player to do something more or less often only increases or decreases the chances of something happening. Other factors come into effect obviously such as decision making etc. But in theory any player on the pitch can attempt something. But playing the likes of Pique in a ball playing defender role and you're going to see a lot of those types of passes.

Edited by OCD

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I'm struggling with creating a defensive tactic to use against much bigger teams (Barcelona, Real Madrid, PSG, etc.). Basically, I always create three tactics: normal one, that I will use for most of the league matches, slightly changed normal one for situations where I want to protect the result and then a very defensive one, that I will start with in the Champions League against much bigger teams. Despite using it, Barcelona and PSG destroyed me, so I'd probably be better off if I just used my normal Control tactic.

My normal tactic:

GK

FB(S)-CB(D)-BPD(D)-WB(S)

Anchor

RPM-CM(A)

W(A)------------------- IF(S)

CF(A)

Mentality: Control

Shape: Flexible

Instructions: Drop deeper (slow defenders), Prevent Short GK distribution (we're good in the air and can win most of the headers, if we force the opponent to play long), Get Stuck In (team isn't very aggressive, so I want to counter that), Float Crosses (tall strikers)

Best players: RPM, W(A), IF(S) - I tried building the tactic around them, so they're in their best roles

This tactic serves me very well in the league.

Now, here's how I changed it to make it more defensive:

GK

FB(S)-CB(D)-BPD(D)-WB(S)

RPM - Anchor

CM(A)

W(A)------------------- IF(S)

CF(A)

Mentality: Defensive

Shape: Structured

Instructions: Drop deeper, Prevent Short GK distribution, More Direct Passes (since we're now using Structured shape, I want more direct balls to the wings), Float Crosses ; I kept everything same as above, except removing Get Stuck In (top teams are usually good at dribbling and I don't want us to make it easy for them to get past) and added More Direct Passes

Here's my thinking behind it. I dropped my RPM down to a DM slot, because he's very capable of defending and it made sense to have two DMs against teams that will put me under extended pressure. In my head, since he's a RPM (creative, good passer, 19 work rate, great physicals), he also won't just sit in front of the defense, but will still support attacks the way he normally does, with the only difference of his starting position being a little lower.

I changed the mentality to Defensive, to minimize the risk that players take. And I changed the shape to Structured, because I want players to have less creative freedom and because my RPM is now lower than usually, I also want my front three to focus on attacking more (if I'm facing a 4231, I still set W and IF to man mark opponent's RB and LB, to prevent overloads as much as I can). I want to play a "no-nonsense" football and catch the opponent on counter with direct passes.

What happens however, is that these much bigger teams destroy me even more than they probably would if I just used my normal, Control tactic instead. My problem is that despite playing FM for a few years already, I'm still really bad when it comes to actually watching the match and seeing what is going wrong or right. It all makes sense in theory, but when I watch the match, I just get lost.

Perhaps I did a mistake with dropping my RPM down to DM position AND changing to Defensive mentality at the same time. Maybe I should of done only one of those two, or at least removed the Drop Deeper instruction, because now my tactic is probably way too defensive to even have a chance to keep the ball. I just get pinned down in front of my own box, with the shot difference ending up 20-2.

Appreciate any advice!

Edited by MeMyself2k13
Grammar.

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42 minutes ago, D_LO_ said:

@MeMyself2k13  The roles aren't very defensive and arguably conflicting with such an approach. Again it's arguable from the DM strata up, only the anchor man has a defensive leaning. The RPM is a very expressive role despite being dropped back, primarily creating will be his priority whilst the CM(a) is clearly offensive minded. I would invite you to consider a DLP for more difficult games due to the added stability it provides whilst CM(s) again does what it say on the tin, providing support going both ways.

Thanks, I'll try that.

Only thing I'm worried about is that I won't use a RPM to its full potential, if I use him as a DLP, due to his amazing work rate and physicals.

I wonder though, when would one use a RPM in the DM spot? Sometimes I struggle to fully understand some roles, for example, what a RPM is to me, is just a more complete playmaker that can influence the game at both ends of the pitch. How do I know how much exactly a player will do in defense though?

RPM PI's:

Enabled by default: Roam From Position, Dribble More
Disabled by default: Get Further Forward, Hold Position, Dribble Less, Fewer Risky Passes

DLP(S) PI's:

Enabled by default: Hold Position, Shoot Less Often
Disabled by default: Get Further Forward, Roam From Position, Shoot More Often, Fewer Risky Passes

What I can understand from that when it comes to defense, is that a RPM can't hold his position, but I wouldn't want him to, since my holding midfielder is Anchor Man. But apart from that I can't see why RPM would do less defensively than a DLP(S), for example. I dropped my RPM down to a DM spot for that exact reason, to do more defensively, but I still want him to support the attack, when we go forward.

Edited by MeMyself2k13

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Anyone got any tips for playing out from the back when the opposition play with AMr/l. I tend to find that my GK won't play short when their eis someone within about 15 yards of one of my defenders, even if I have a DM who drops back to add an extra man.

With 5 players (3 defenders and 2 DMs) marked by only the front 3 of the opponent I regularly find it quite hard to build from the back and impose myself on the game.

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1 hour ago, D_LO_ said:

I noticed this, usually I distribute to full-backs but changed to centre-backs due the advanced wide-men. Naturally my back line seemed more spread so it worked ok. It sounds like you've got 3 at the back though? I'd imagine they are spread less and being more narrow it's easier for the opposition to cover them. Sounds like it's something which you will have to endure with the formation unless you change to a back four and distribution like I have. Clearly there's not enough width in your back-line to enable this versus some formations. Sometimes you can't 'shoe-horn' specific instructions versus some formations but nor should you necessarily want to. 

Naturally one of the best ways to combat the press is by going more direct though so it does sound like your goal-keeper is actually being quite pro-active so I wouldn't necessary say I have a problem with it depending on what's happening with the first and in particular second balls.. It might be worth considering your options with these if you are getting consistently beaten in this aspect, if you're not willing to change your formation. 

I actually play a sort of 3-2-3-2 with only 1 centre back. I was sort of frustrated with a previous 4-1-4-1 (had the same problem in that formation as well) that wasn't working so this evolved as sort of awhy-the-hell-not kinda thing but I have won 5 games in a row with an aggregate score of 14-3 and have played Man City, Dortmund, Liverpool and Chelsea in that run.

What happens is that while the two FBs go wide (and are marked by AMR/L, the 2 DMs basically just stand next to the CB allowing all 3 to be marked by one striker. The DMs being in a relatively deep position then makes it quite difficult to consistently win 2nd balls in midfield after a long kick.

 

 

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8 hours ago, D_LO_ said:

I understand what you're saying about the RPM vs the DLP but I think the way you want to play conflicts with a defensive strategy. I'm saying the shape the DLP holds, positions him better defensively and that he won't find himself out of position anywhere near as frequently as a RPM which in itself will be a big help defensively. You don't want a DM to contribute offensively on top of the already offensively positioned players (you're trying to be defensive remember) whilst there's a suggestion one holding midfielder (the anchor man) is enough which it definitely isn't.

I can see your point, thanks!

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Did you ever used tactic that made your team a steamroller, and on new save when you playing this same team and tactic, tactic doesn't work? 

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almost any youth player would got poor stamina. is it good to focussed their training in stamina attributes,or just give them anther focus, like role,and let the stamina increased naturally?

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7 hours ago, Pivot said:

Did you ever used tactic that made your team a steamroller, and on new save when you playing this same team and tactic, tactic doesn't work? 

It's the same principle as reloading the same match and getting a different result each time.  No two matches will be the same, so you can expect different results.  Further, no two saves will be exactly the same either, so again results will differ.

1 hour ago, Hanan96 said:

almost any youth player would got poor stamina. is it good to focussed their training in stamina attributes,or just give them anther focus, like role,and let the stamina increased naturally?

Stamina can increase naturally over time, but if a players' Stamina is especially low there's no harm in focusing on it for a while.

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1 hour ago, herne79 said:

It's the same principle as reloading the same match and getting a different result each time.  No two matches will be the same, so you can expect different results.  Further, no two saves will be exactly the same either, so again results will differ.

So tactic is useless?

What I should to do to make tactic great again? Reinstall a FM?

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46 minutes ago, Pivot said:

So tactic is useless?

What I should to do to make tactic great again? Reinstall a FM?

Reinstalling FM won't make your tactic great again, or any worse for that matter.

What you do is learn to adapt to different situations if necessary.

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13 hours ago, Pivot said:

Did you ever used tactic that made your team a steamroller, and on new save when you playing this same team and tactic, tactic doesn't work? 

The issue is that despite the beliefs, there isn't a one size fits all magical tactic.

More than ever in football manager you need to be able to adapt mid match to what is happening. If for example your team play high tempo, direct passes, and hit early crosses, but you come against opposition that sit very deep, narrow and stick to their shape (i.e don't close you down) playing direct passes at high tempo isn't going to get great results.

You might have to slow the tempo down, play shorter passes, work ball into the box, and play wider to stretch the play.

Obviously we all have a base tactic that we get our team familiar with, but I like to have 2 other tactics fully fluid so that I can make changes as necessary to adapt to different matches. For example I have my team fluid in 3 different mentalities, passing styles, tempos, and creative freedom. This then gives me the flexibility and peace of mind to know that if I have to play a shorter passing game, or direct , my team aren't "awkward" at it.

The other thing to take into consideration about why tactics are not one size fits all, is because of the players in your squad. Its all well and goodhaving a tactic with attacking full backs who hit early crosses into the box, with skilful inside forwards cutting inside and making forward runs into the box. But if you try that same tactic with a team with limited fullbacks who can't dribble, or cross then it's clearly not going to work.

The players need to be right for a particular tactic, so there's two ways to deal with things, firstly play tactics that are suitable for the players you have, or buy players that are suitable for the tactics you want to implement.

Edited by OCD

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what if we choose team shape as fluid whereas creative freedom was choosen as more disciplined ( this option also disallows roam from position option) ?

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9 minutes ago, whoopy said:

what if we choose team shape as fluid whereas creative freedom was choosen as more disciplined ( this option also disallows roam from position option) ?

I believe under the hood there are "sliders". So take creative freedom which you mention and imagine players are rated from 0-20. With 0 being no creative freedom, and 20 total creative freedom. Setting team shape to fluid might give a particular player 15 creative freedom, and by selecting be more disciplined it knocks off 2 points so that particular player is now on 13 creative freedom.

Now obviously the numbers are pulled out of my ass, but the principle is that everything "stacks" and every change you make has a knock on effect. So for example tempo, to get the "slider on max" you would select overload, and much higher tempo team instruction, and that would give a player 20, however if you selected overload and normal tempo that would give a player 16. If you selected attacking mentality and normal it would give a player 12, if you increased tempo to max it would give the player 15, and so on, and to get the absolute lowest tempo you would select contain and much lower etc etc

Edited by OCD

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11 minutes ago, OCD said:

The issue is that despite the beliefs, there isn't a one size fits all magical tactic.

More than ever in football manager you need to be able to adapt mid match to what is happening. If for example your team play high tempo, direct passes, and hit early crosses, but you come against opposition that sit very deep, narrow and stick to their shape (i.e don't close you down) playing direct passes at high tempo isn't going to get great results.

You might have to slow the tempo down, play shorter passes, work ball into the box, and play wider to stretch the play.

Obviously we all have a base tactic that we get our team familiar with, but I like to have 2 other tactics fully fluid so that I can make changes as necessary to adapt to different matches. For example I have my team fluid in 3 different mentalities, passing styles, tempos, and creative freedom. This then gives me the flexibility and peace of mind to know that if I have to play a shorter passing game, or direct , my team aren't "awkward" at it.

The other thing to take into consideration about why tactics are not one size fits all, is because of the players in your squad. Its all well and goodhaving a tactic with attacking full backs who hit early crosses into the box, with skilful inside forwards cutting inside and making forward runs into the box. But if you try that same tactic with a team with limited fullbacks who can't dribble, or cross then it's clearly not going to work.

The players need to be right for a particular tactic, so there's two ways to deal with things, firstly play tactics that are suitable for the players you have, or buy players that are suitable for the tactics you want to implement.

Yes, but when I used before that tactic (even if was not fluid) my team had counterattacks, through passes into box, crosses. Now my game is: pass to flank -> cross into box ->if striker didn't score, repeat.

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22 minutes ago, Pivot said:

Yes, but when I used before that tactic (even if was not fluid) my team had counterattacks, through passes into box, crosses. Now my game is: pass to flank -> cross into box ->if striker didn't score, repeat.

What I'm trying to say though is that one tactic will not work against every team.

Sometimes you have to adapt to the opposition. In the example you gave sometimes playing down the flanks will not be the correct option, especially if the opposition is stronger than you are down the flanks, or for example floating crosses might not be the correct option against certain teams if their defenders are much taller than your players in the box.

Also the players you have in your team effect how appropriate a tactic is too. Take Arsenal as a real life example, hitting high crosses into Sanchez is not going to have great results, compared to if it was Giroud they were aiming crosses to.

Also are the players hitting crosses into the box able to cross well? Look at F Pogba the other day against Man Utd, he was obviously instructed to hit crosses into the box, but every single one of them was terrible and overhit.

Now in football manager if my tactic involved playing down the flanks, and hitting crosses into the box but my players were not capable of it, or it wasn't working I would then change my approach. You can't expect one tactic and approach to work every single game.

Lastly if you find that your tactic is suddenly not working then it is likely because the opposition has changed how they play against you. I find this happens more than ever in Football Manager. They even change through the match too, whether they suddenly play defensively and very narrow, or change to a 4-2-4 and start attacking you. The choice is then to stick with what you're doing, or adapt to their changes to punish them.

 

Edited by OCD

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5 minutes ago, Pivot said:

 One more question - it is possible to set diffrent OI for 3 diffrent tactics?

I believe (without checking) that opposition instructions are independent of any tactic. So if you have 3 different tactics loaded, they will all use your generic opposition instructions you have set.

You would need to then adjust them before each match, if you wanted to make changes.

I don't believe you can have 3 tactics with 3 different opposition instructions set for each tactic.

But again I don't find this to be a problem as I tend to adapt my opposition instructions depending on who I am playing, and what is happening in the match.

For example if I see that they have a player that is making lots of key passes, and receiving the ball a lot I will make sure and mark him out of the game. Or if I see a specific player that has too much time on the ball and is controlling the play I will make sure he is closed down.

Edited by OCD

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How do you guys hold onto a lead?

It seems to happen more than i would like to admit but my sides always concede in the last minutes of the game

last match i was winning 3x0 against Chelsea and  with 15 minutes to go they  change the formation to a more attacking one, i get overrun and the final result is 3x3. They started with conte's 3-4-3 formation and changed to something like this:

CHELSEA.thumb.png.24ae2bd4088bf57217126799b1ebdcf5.png

and my formation was this one:

HULL.thumb.png.f4b3b83ebc8b9d603ad001ed4bf3764d.pngi

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