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Stupid Questions Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)

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its in general a "question" for all the tactics i use...  i know its a bit of a rant but i wait to all my tactics are fully fluid before i loose patients. I even tried tactics from forums which people are succeeding with. But every tactic i use the opponents need 3-4 chances and scores 2 goals, i need 20+ chances to score... 

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1 hour ago, HUNT3R said:

Have you tried a formation similar to what was mentioned?

Yes, in FM11 and in FM16 as well and offensive wise was very unhappy with my "strikers". They were super late with their runs, did not move into channels as they should etc. They played like attacking central midfielders, not like strikers at all.

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It seems that once again you can't upload tactics from FM16 straight into FM17.  I have had a quick look at player and team instructions and nothing stands out that is different from last years version, unless I have missed something so just intrigued that if nothing has changed in team and player instructions why you just can't transfer last years tactics over?  As I say I might be missing the obvious!!!!

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Custom Views are ok .... but not tactics and set pieces etc no.

think its to do with the steam workshop link not being live until the full release

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It used to be possible in older versions of FM (last one I played before 17 was FM14) within the analysis screen during/after a game, to see all the attempted passes by a selected player, just by clicking on their name. Now it looks like you have to click on every type of pass (completed/intercepted etc.) for each player to do this. 

Is there a way to see all passes for a single player, and then just scroll through the players one by one, like in the older versions?

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I like to have 3 alternative tactics but , presumably, to be fully fluid prior to first competitive match I should only set up what I believe will be my main tactic during pre-season (1 becomes fluid quicker than 3)? If that is correct then once my main tactic is fluid, I should then introduce second and get both fluid before starting on third? 

During beta I set up three at start of pre season and despite setting up lots of friendlies, maximising match training with tactics focus etc.... no tactic was fully fluid after first 10 competitive games.

Advice appreciated before I start my long term save when game released tomorrow.

 

Edited by mhaffy

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Anyone having trouble playing a back three with wing backs in the MR/L position?

I'm finding that players in that position don't defend at all, they don't track opponent midfielders and they don't get into good positions in attack.

It does work much better if those players are positioned at WBR/L however they then fall back far too readily into positions level with the centre backs. Maybe its just a personal thing but I really don't like that, for me, it means they are too far away from their opponents, especially against 4-4-2 systems.

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17 minutes ago, mhaffy said:

I like to have 3 alternative tactics but , presumably, to be fully fluid prior to first competitive match I should only set up what I believe will be my main tactic during pre-season (1 becomes fluid quicker than 3)? If that is correct then once my main tactic is fluid, I should then introduce second and get both fluid before starting on third? 

During beta I set up three at start of pre season and despite setting up lots of friendlies, maximising match training with tactics focus etc.... no tactic was fully fluid after first 10 competitive games.

Advice appreciated before I start my long term save when game released tomorrow.

 

You've answered yourself already. 3 systems will take longer to learn than 2 or 1. The more differences there are, the longer as well.

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6 minutes ago, mojojojo101 said:

Anyone having trouble playing a back three with wing backs in the MR/L position?

I'm finding that players in that position don't defend at all, they don't track opponent midfielders and they don't get into good positions in attack.

It does work much better if those players are positioned at WBR/L however they then fall back far too readily into positions level with the centre backs. Maybe its just a personal thing but I really don't like that, for me, it means they are too far away from their opponents, especially against 4-4-2 systems.

It will depend on their role and if they are Support or Attacking. Also, what is the team mentality? if it's attacking/control they'll be less likely to track back.

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12 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

You've answered yourself already. 3 systems will take longer to learn than 2 or 1. The more differences there are, the longer as well.

Thanks for confirming what I thought - roll on full game release....

 

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With a club like Chelsea (good coaches/facilities etc) how quickly could you reasonably expect talented youngsters CA star rating to improve - 0.5 stars per year? several talened youngsters not ready for first team yet and trying to work out when they may be at say 3 star CA to help me firm up on order to strengthen current team in via transfer market.

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2 minutes ago, mhaffy said:

With a club like Chelsea (good coaches/facilities etc) how quickly could you reasonably expect talented youngsters CA star rating to improve - 0.5 stars per year? several talened youngsters not ready for first team yet and trying to work out when they may be at say 3 star CA to help me firm up on order to strengthen current team in via transfer market.

It'll heavily depend on whether they get playing time. Facilities and training only get them to a certain level and from there they need to play. If you're waiting for them to become 3 star players just from training, you're going to wait forever as it just won't happen. 3 stars is equal or slightly above the level of the current squad.

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7 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

It'll heavily depend on whether they get playing time. Facilities and training only get them to a certain level and from there they need to play. If you're waiting for them to become 3 star players just from training, you're going to wait forever as it just won't happen. 3 stars is equal or slightly above the level of the current squad.

Understood, but with regular sub appearances and occasional cup starts, would 1/2 star progression be reasonable expectation per year/

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22 minutes ago, mhaffy said:

Understood, but with regular sub appearances and occasional cup starts, would 1/2 star progression be reasonable expectation per year/

There is no magic formula and every player is different. Some bloom early while others much later. Rather than focusing on how much someone improves just focus on if they are improving or not.

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On 03/11/2016 at 12:40, _Daniel_ said:

It will depend on their role and if they are Support or Attacking. Also, what is the team mentality? if it's attacking/control they'll be less likely to track back.

Tried with wide players set to Winger (Support) and Defensive Winger (Support), did try Defensive Winger (Defend) but that didn't work at all.

 

Team settings were set to Fluid Counter, did also try Fluid Control.

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9 hours ago, mojojojo101 said:

Tried with wide players set to Winger (Support) and Defensive Winger (Support), did try Defensive Winger (Defend) but that didn't work at all.

 

Team settings were set to Fluid Counter, did also try Fluid Control.

How about the players themselves? High Work Rate would be essential, and perhaps decisions and positioning? Do you use any Team Instructions? 

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I've skipped two versions of FM, and I'm trying out the FM17 demo. How do I retrain a player to a new position? I'm trying to retrain Alex Pritchard to natural at AM(C), he starts out at Accomplished, but I can't see a specific option to retrain. Is selecting training him as Advanced Playmaker from the AM(C) list and playing at AM(C) enough?

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I've often come up against AI managers who switch to a 4-3-3 to come back from behind and i've had a lot of trouble with it. My defenders have an awful time picking up the strikers when pressing, when not pressing the opposition get A LOT of the ball. Most of the time they are succesfull.

I've tried putting an extra man in defence, keeping my full backs on defend, putting in a DM in all sorts of roles... Anyone got an idea how to counter the threat of this AI 4-3-3?

Playing as a low to mid table team in Belarus, so i havent got any world beaters (nor do the opposition).

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Maybe someone can answer this here...

On past editions I would regularly check how my players were blending together via my AssMan's Team Talk Feedback screen. I can't for the life of me find the equivalent of this on FM17. Anyone found it yet?

The only other thing I could think is that it is now chucked in with Tactical Familiarity as you can see how your players are coming on individually by the new formation overlay.

EDIT - I've just found it. It's now under the Analysis drop down menu on the Tactics screen. 

Edited by felley

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Stupid me needs to ask a  stupid question, efter 10 years i still cant make a tactic.

AML/AMR, would an "Advanced playmaker - support" with "Dribble more", play the exact same way as an "Inside forward - support" with "Shoot less often".

They now have the same PI's/Mentality etc., or are they some hidden things we cant see, that make them play different?

1zbdhzl.png

Cm's

Same with "Deep lying playmaker - support " with " More risky passes" and "Advanced playmaker - support" with "Hold postion", would that become a hybrid like Advanced deep playmaker?

1z4wco6.png

Taking this a step further, i decided to take a tactic and see if i could change every position into something else, with the same pi's/mentality(the slider is the same place) . The only one i did not change was the BPD.

would these 2 tactics perform the exact same?

j0adyc.jpg1j9jlk.jpg

Well looks like they perform the same, on a holiday save until 28 dec, given the different outcomes in each(injuries etc)

f4g0k.jpg

2s1nh1w.jpg

 

1_EF61F834-E2C1-439D-9FBD-7CF567F536D4.fmf

2_A936950B-F18E-4EEB-8102-763FBF205D05.fmf

Edited by Herbie2100

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10 hours ago, Katarian said:

I've skipped two versions of FM, and I'm trying out the FM17 demo. How do I retrain a player to a new position? I'm trying to retrain Alex Pritchard to natural at AM(C), he starts out at Accomplished, but I can't see a specific option to retrain. Is selecting training him as Advanced Playmaker from the AM(C) list and playing at AM(C) enough?

Development>Training>Postion/Role> Attacking Midfielder (centre)>choose the role you want him to train at.

He will then be training AMC and the role you choosen.

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I'm really struggling with tactics this year (again). I'm playing as Newcastle, who are arguably the strongest team in the division and am looking to create a formation built around a solid defence and will work on the attacking element from there. As it stands, I leak goals constantly from a range of different attacks, crosses, through balls etc. so it's not as though I can see a specific area of weakness to adjust to.

I've gone with instructions which I believe, in real life, would offer me a solid defensive platform to build on. My instructions are as follows, with my reasoning behind them;

Higher tempo: Look to hit teams on the break with quick breaks once we regain possession.

Width Fairly Narrow: Trying to make the team compact to avoid conceding from through balls. My centre halves have good heading and jumping stats so should be able to deal with crosses into the box.

Defensive line Slightly Deeper: My defence isn't the quickest so I'm looking to avoid being hit with balls over the top.

Creative Freedom Be more disciplined: Looking to hold the teams shape and not get caught out of position if possession is lost.

I'm playing a 4-2-3-1 wide formation at the minute with standard mentality and flexible team shape. If I've missed any info that would be key to the creation of a solid defensive tactic, let me know and I'll do my best to supply answers.

Thank you in advance for any help you can offer!

 

 

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Quote

I've gone with instructions which I believe, in real life, would offer me a solid defensive platform to build on. My instructions are as follows, with my reasoning behind them;

Higher tempo: Look to hit teams on the break with quick breaks once we regain possession.

Yet you said you have the strongest team in the league. Why rush play more? How are you exactly going to break if you are the best side, then everyone else is weaker and chances are 70% of teams will sit back against you. How is playing higher tempo going to help with that? Again the same with quick breaks, the opposition likely won't commit massive numbers against you.

Quote

Width Fairly Narrow: Trying to make the team compact to avoid conceding from through balls. My centre halves have good heading and jumping stats so should be able to deal with crosses into the box.

Width is an on the ball instruction, so is only in play when you have the ball.

Quote

Creative Freedom Be more disciplined: Looking to hold the teams shape and not get caught out of position if possession is lost.

Yet you use higher tempo which will influence team shape a lot more than creative freedom will, as creative freedom is already set on players based on the mentality you use, the role and the duty. So you can't really go from extremes to the other without changing those. For example if you had a defensive midfielder, lets say his creative freedom is a 3 on a scale of 1-10. Then by using this TI you'd make it a 2. Or if you made him more creative then he'd likely be a 4. Keeping shape is more about the mentality, tempo and roles/duties you use than be more disciplined.

I don't think your TI's match your vision at all with all due respect. 

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10 minutes ago, Cleon said:

Yet you said you have the strongest team in the league. Why rush play more? How are you exactly going to break if you are the best side, then everyone else is weaker and chances are 70% of teams will sit back against you. How is playing higher tempo going to help with that? Again the same with quick breaks, the opposition likely won't commit massive numbers against you.

Width is an on the ball instruction, so is only in play when you have the ball.

Yet you use higher tempo which will influence team shape a lot more than creative freedom will, as creative freedom is already set on players based on the mentality you use, the role and the duty. So you can't really go from extremes to the other without changing those. For example if you had a defensive midfielder, lets say his creative freedom is a 3 on a scale of 1-10. Then by using this TI you'd make it a 2. Or if you made him more creative then he'd likely be a 4. Keeping shape is more about the mentality, tempo and roles/duties you use than be more disciplined.

I don't think your TI's match your vision at all with all due respect. 

No offence taken whatsoever! I think my problem is that I'm taking a 'real life' view of things rather than an in game one. In reality would one thing affect the other so much? I think it's probably a lack of in game understanding on my part rather than an issue with the ME or anything like that. Is there anywhere I can find a definitive guide on what affects playing instructions, i.e what you mentioned with the tempo affecting positional discipline? I assumed that it would mean keep shape and remain disciplined and then as soon as we won the ball back we would hit the opposition on the break as quickly as possible with a direct ball in behind?

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Just now, Daveshotton said:

No offence taken whatsoever! I think my problem is that I'm taking a 'real life' view of things rather than an in game one. In reality would one thing affect the other so much? I think it's probably a lack of in game understanding on my part rather than an issue with the ME or anything like that. Is there anywhere I can find a definitive guide on what affects playing instructions, i.e what you mentioned with the tempo affecting positional discipline? I assumed that it would mean keep shape and remain disciplined and then as soon as we won the ball back we would hit the opposition on the break as quickly as possible with a direct ball in behind?

I think even in real life it doesn't make much sense either, not at least the way you described you wanted to play. In order to hit teams on the break and get behind them you need to allow the opposition to advance up the field. In FM one of the main factors in determining this is reputation and Newcastle have a huge reputation compared to the other Championship clubs. This automatically means that most will be more cautious against you, so playing a quick direct game might not be the best way to play until you maybe hit the Premiership again. In the Championship I can see you needing to be more patient as a lot of teams will be quite defensive and rarely venture forward. This would mean your whole approach could and is faltering I'm guessing hence your post.

I'd be more focused on what roles you've used and their duties before concentrating on TI's. As the roles will determine how creative someone is, what kind of area's they'll be taking up and how far from their initial positions they'll stray. Other things come into play too obviously but the majority falls on the role and duty selections that you've used throughout the team.

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If I want my team to play more of low, but whipped crosses, should I go for a TI "whipped" or TI "low"? Which one gives me a higher probability of seeing my players perform those low, driven passes into the box from both wings?

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Could someone please explain what a transition-based gameplay is? Is it the same as counter attack-based? And how to implement it to FM?

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Guess my question got lost in my last post.

 

AML/AMR, would an "Advanced playmaker - support" with "Dribble more", play the exact same way as an "Inside forward - support" with "Shoot less often".

They now have the same PI's/Mentality etc., or are they some hidden things we cant see, that make them play different?

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If all setting were equal then they'd be the same. The only roles that have special under the hood behaviors are targetmen, playmakers and the half back. The rest (if you was allowed to use any instructions) could all be recreated like you say.

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1 hour ago, Cleon said:

If all setting were equal then they'd be the same. The only roles that have special under the hood behaviors are targetmen, playmakers and the half back. The rest (if you was allowed to use any instructions) could all be recreated like you say.

And i guess the under the hood things, in the case of the playmakers is that other players is more likely to pass the ball to him?

And if it is like above and you have Messi playing AMR, you would want to set him as a playmaker with dribble more, instead of a inside forward(most people set inside forwards to shoot less often most of the times anyway)

 

another question: in what situation/role would you ever use the "shoot more often", dont see it beeing used much.

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Hi.

Do you care about your players key passes? I'm always frustrated when my players have very few in a match, even if i win comfortably.

Edited by mikcheck

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Greetings;

A question about nerves during a match. I've never payed too much attention to it, but on my current Atl Madrid game some players get easily nervous when leading 1-0 against inferior teams. Just played a home match against Eibar and minutes after going 1-0 up Carles Planas, Gabi (!) and Augusto Fernandez become "nervous" and "very nervous". Combined, these 3 players are 110 years old with heaps of La Liga experience.

Which factors plays in here? 

For Planas - as soon as we got the second goal he insta went "complacent" after being nervous. A sign of weak hidden attributes?

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4 hours ago, Ji-Sung Park said:

Greetings;

A question about nerves during a match. I've never payed too much attention to it, but on my current Atl Madrid game some players get easily nervous when leading 1-0 against inferior teams. Just played a home match against Eibar and minutes after going 1-0 up Carles Planas, Gabi (!) and Augusto Fernandez become "nervous" and "very nervous". Combined, these 3 players are 110 years old with heaps of La Liga experience.

Which factors plays in here? 

For Planas - as soon as we got the second goal he insta went "complacent" after being nervous. A sign of weak hidden attributes?

Yes, those are certainly personality indicators. Players that get nervous when holding a small lead late into a game I believe have a lower pressure rating. The complacency indicator is tough, as it would seem to be a lack of professionalism, but I have seen it afflict professional players also, so I am not sure what exactly is in play there. Maybe someone else has an idea. Some of the body language indicators are also situational in how they trigger personality traits- long winning streaks can produce complacency, and certainly matches perceived as big will trigger the important matches trait.

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9 hours ago, mikcheck said:

Hi.

Do you care about your players key passes? I'm always frustrated when my players have very few in a match, even if i win comfortably.

Someone pls?

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1 hour ago, mikcheck said:

Someone pls?

I don't care. Like a lot of the stats in FM, it has it's own algorithms for calculation that do not always match up with what you see in the game. The CCC stat is the best example of this, but key passes is another one where it behaves funny at times. There has been some discussion about how it is calculated and like all stat deliveries it is continually being tweaked to better represent what actually occurs. There was a prior issue with key passes where it was awarding far too many where they weren't warranted.

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Hello everyone.

Tell me please, are long balls (i'm not sure how it call in english. i mean a passes over heads) risky or not? Another words, when i set "more risky passes", increase it amount of long balls over defenders head?

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2 hours ago, Dr. Hook said:

I don't care. Like a lot of the stats in FM, it has it's own algorithms for calculation that do not always match up with what you see in the game. The CCC stat is the best example of this, but key passes is another one where it behaves funny at times. There has been some discussion about how it is calculated and like all stat deliveries it is continually being tweaked to better represent what actually occurs. There was a prior issue with key passes where it was awarding far too many where they weren't warranted.

Thanks Dr. Hook,  i'll be less paranoid about it then.

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9 hours ago, Dr. Hook said:

Yes, those are certainly personality indicators. Players that get nervous when holding a small lead late into a game I believe have a lower pressure rating. The complacency indicator is tough, as it would seem to be a lack of professionalism, but I have seen it afflict professional players also, so I am not sure what exactly is in play there. Maybe someone else has an idea. Some of the body language indicators are also situational in how they trigger personality traits- long winning streaks can produce complacency, and certainly matches perceived as big will trigger the important matches trait.

Cheers Dr. Hook.

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3 questions: 


1. I am playing my GK as a sweeper keeper on attack mode, but I dont see my goalkeeper standing "far" from his box, I picked SK because I am playing with a high defensive line and i need my keeper to be ready to clear through balls or crosses in my half. Am I missing something?

2. Playing  a 4-1-2-2-1 formation (1DM,2CM,2winger). Control and Fluid settings on. When attacking phase, my 2 CM, Ozil as AP(support) and Ramsey as BBM(support) often does not attack along with my other strikers, instead they sit pretty deep duringa attack phase. how should I set my two CM so my Winger (attack), Inside foward (attack) and DLP (support) arent isolated? 

3. as a 4-1-2-2-1 system, what is the best striker role, so my striker comes deep and help my winger while defending?

thank you!
 

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7 hours ago, aditya said:

3 questions: 


1. I am playing my GK as a sweeper keeper on attack mode, but I dont see my goalkeeper standing "far" from his box, I picked SK because I am playing with a high defensive line and i need my keeper to be ready to clear through balls or crosses in my half. Am I missing something?

2. Playing  a 4-1-2-2-1 formation (1DM,2CM,2winger). Control and Fluid settings on. When attacking phase, my 2 CM, Ozil as AP(support) and Ramsey as BBM(support) often does not attack along with my other strikers, instead they sit pretty deep duringa attack phase. how should I set my two CM so my Winger (attack), Inside foward (attack) and DLP (support) arent isolated? 

3. as a 4-1-2-2-1 system, what is the best striker role, so my striker comes deep and help my winger while defending?

thank you!
 

I haven't used a sweeper keeper on attack duty before, so I'll leave #1 to others, but I'll try the other two.

2.  In a 4-1-2-2-1 it's better to have a CM on an attack duty to get forward and help out the lone forward.  An AP on support won't do that; they'll kind of stay back and dictate play from there.  A BBM will get forward, but they will be starting from very deep most of the time, so if it's not fast enough for you, have one of the CMs on attack.

3. I think a False 9 is the best role for you, although I'm not sure how much they help defensively.

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On 6.11.2016 at 19:40, pilif25 said:

If I want my team to play more of low, but whipped crosses, should I go for a TI "whipped" or TI "low"? Which one gives me a higher probability of seeing my players perform those low, driven passes into the box from both wings?

Anyone?

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23 hours ago, Ji-Sung Park said:

Greetings;

A question about nerves during a match. I've never payed too much attention to it, but on my current Atl Madrid game some players get easily nervous when leading 1-0 against inferior teams. Just played a home match against Eibar and minutes after going 1-0 up Carles Planas, Gabi (!) and Augusto Fernandez become "nervous" and "very nervous". Combined, these 3 players are 110 years old with heaps of La Liga experience.

Which factors plays in here? 

For Planas - as soon as we got the second goal he insta went "complacent" after being nervous. A sign of weak hidden attributes?

 

I remember reading that players also get nervous due to them worried about how the match expectations are against small teams. I've seen players at Home get nervous within 10 mins in the first half after scoring once as they are expected (by media and fans) to be winning at least 3-0! If the match odds are quite predominantly in my favour with media expecting us to steamroll the opposition I actually tell the players to relax under the notion they'll be under pressure from Home fans too. 

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I'm conceding to many goals from free kicks. Not direct, but indirect, aiming at far post. And due to lack of options for free kicks, I just don't know how to set them. Can anyone help about this?

And yes, please no advice like sign better players.

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There's probably no solution to this but any way I can make my Inside Forward stop dribbling the ball towards the defenders and losing it? I'm managing Bayern and Ribery/Robben loses the ball to the defenders 95% of the time. I have them at IF-S but it still has the Dribble More PI.

Mentality set to Control or Standard and Be More Expressive is *NOT* selected.

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12 hours ago, Firehouse said:

I'm conceding to many goals from free kicks. Not direct, but indirect, aiming at far post. And due to lack of options for free kicks, I just don't know how to set them. Can anyone help about this?

And yes, please no advice like sign better players.

Sacrifice some of your shorter players for the taller ones even though they are poorer. That's probably the only solution you have. I remember reading somewhere saying this is 1 of the reason why Mourinho always play Ivanovic. 

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1 hour ago, Artin said:

There's probably no solution to this but any way I can make my Inside Forward stop dribbling the ball towards the defenders and losing it? I'm managing Bayern and Ribery/Robben loses the ball to the defenders 95% of the time. I have them at IF-S but it still has the Dribble More PI.

Mentality set to Control or Standard and Be More Expressive is *NOT* selected.

Put them back at WM position and set up the IF role using PIs(with dribble less) and probably use the don't run with ball TI as well.

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5 minutes ago, vasilli07 said:

Put them back at WM position and set up the IF role using PIs(with dribble less) and probably use the don't run with ball TI as well.

That's a great idea! Two concerns though:

1) Is it OK if they're not Natural in that position (I'm guessing it doesn't matter as long as they have the correct attributes)?

2) Are there any hidden PIs with regards roles? I know there are hidden attributes like Consistency etc and was wondering if there's something similar with regards to player roles? Basically, safe to copy the PIs for IF and add them to WM with virtually no negative effect?

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1) There is no problem at all. I always do that as I played 4-4-1-1(4-2-3-1 during attack). The most important thing you should consider are their attributes. Do they have what it takes to play in the role you want? If they are awkward in WM position, put them on training on that position as well.

2) Yes, no negative effect.

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