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Stupid Questions Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)

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I'm currently managing in the English Premier League, and I'm seeing a lot of teams playing with an advanced playmaker in central midfield (CM), and the same team then emplying an advanced playmaker in the attacking midfield as well.

Could anyone tell what benefits this has? And perhaps could someone also point to a team in real life that uses this setup just to get my head around it?

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I'm currently managing in the English Premier League, and I'm seeing a lot of teams playing with an advanced playmaker in central midfield (CM), and the same team then emplying an advanced playmaker in the attacking midfield as well.

Could anyone tell what benefits this has? And perhaps could someone also point to a team in real life that uses this setup just to get my head around it?

Generally what we see with AI behavior is that it will allocate roles and duties based on the players it has rather than trying to accommodate a specific system. In your case, those clubs likely have two first teamers that are viewed by FM's metrics as being best suited for that role based on their attributes, so you will see it being used. This is one area where that needs some work, and I think SI is looking at dealing with this for future versions.

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Generally what we see with AI behavior is that it will allocate roles and duties based on the players it has rather than trying to accommodate a specific system. In your case, those clubs likely have two first teamers that are viewed by FM's metrics as being best suited for that role based on their attributes, so you will see it being used. This is one area where that needs some work, and I think SI is looking at dealing with this for future versions.

Thanks, mate. Seems likely. I'm guessing that also explains the large number of teams playing without a balancing midfielder.

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Thanks, mate. Seems likely. I'm guessing that also explains the large number of teams playing without a balancing midfielder.

Yes it does; the AI will come out with some absolutely funky role and duty combinations sometimes :)

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How do you guys know what roles the AI is utilising? All I can tell is that the formations jig around ever so slightly in the formation, which might hint at some major differences in roles, but I couldn't be confident even then?

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How do you guys know what roles the AI is utilising? All I can tell is that the formations jig around ever so slightly in the formation, which might hint at some major differences in roles, but I couldn't be confident even then?

They are posted before every match.

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They are posted before every match.

Does it? I can only see formations... Where does it tell you the roles?

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They're only visible in some third party skins.
Ahh, thank you. I thought I was going blind for a second, I only have the default skin :D

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Just wondering: if possession % can not be compared because FM and football stats use different criteria, is there any other issues that might have a different interpretation ? and I'm thinking about Tempo.

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Just wondering: if possession % can not be compared because FM and football stats use different criteria, is there any other issues that might have a different interpretation ? and I'm thinking about Tempo.

Tempo is generally a more subjective area, and doesn't have a stat as such, so isn't comparable - full stop!

Tackling is also known to be different - tackles in FM are statistically way higher than real life because FM can't simulate physicality properly so you get tackles in FM where in real life you'd get general upper body contact etc. Again, not a flaw as such, just a different way in which the ME models and captures things.

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Tempo is generally a more subjective area, and doesn't have a stat as such, so isn't comparable - full stop!

Tackling is also known to be different - tackles in FM are statistically way higher than real life because FM can't simulate physicality properly so you get tackles in FM where in real life you'd get general upper body contact etc. Again, not a flaw as such, just a different way in which the ME models and captures things.

Thanks mate. My thinking was about the quick or the low moving around the ball, when thinking about low in football I always remember brazilian league matches; when thinking about quick, UK is a good example. So, if comparable, I was wondering if low and quick tempo in FM can be translated from these two examples.

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Thanks mate. My thinking was about the quick or the low moving around the ball, when thinking about low in football I always remember brazilian league matches; when thinking about quick, UK is a good example. So, if comparable, I was wondering if low and quick tempo in FM can be translated from these two examples.

Yes, that's probably a fair way of translating high / low tempo.

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Ahh, thank you. I thought I was going blind for a second, I only have the default skin :D
I use scorpio skin and it shows the roles.

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I've been reading some tactical guides on 'fmpassion' and there is a shape called "score a goal" in which one thing seems not so clear to me. I mean, among all the offensive shouts they recommend to use "drop deeper". Can somebody explain my why this instruction is useful when chasing for a goal?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-UtTJtDFb_Eo/UpjMlwry5rI/AAAAAAAANKo/RBFHTU_Xsvc/s1600/shouts-score-a-goal.png

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I've been reading some tactical guides on 'fmpassion' and there is a shape called "score a goal" in which one thing seems not so clear to me. I mean, among all the offensive shouts they recommend to use "drop deeper". Can somebody explain my why this instruction is useful when chasing for a goal?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-UtTJtDFb_Eo/UpjMlwry5rI/AAAAAAAANKo/RBFHTU_Xsvc/s1600/shouts-score-a-goal.png

With the rest of the shouts they tell you to use it makes no sense at all. Don't believe everything you read to be true or accurate. Clearly it someone just using shouts in the hope they accidentally stumble upon a solution rather than creating a strategy.

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With the rest of the shouts they tell you to use it makes no sense at all. Don't believe everything you read to be true or accurate. Clearly it someone just using shouts in the hope they accidentally stumble upon a solution rather than creating a strategy.

Could it be a vague attempt to try and replicate some sort of counter-attack? Sitting deeper, drawing your opponent out to hit the space with a direct ball in behind? I am only asking, as my brain tells me that some of those shouts are pretty reasonable and I'd like to know what I am wrong :D

Admittedly, if I was chasing the game, I don't think counterattacking if the way to do it.

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Could it be a vague attempt to try and replicate some sort of counter-attack? Sitting deeper, drawing your opponent out to hit the space with a direct ball in behind? I am only asking, as my brain tells me that some of those shouts are pretty reasonable and I'd like to know what I am wrong :D

Admittedly, if I was chasing the game, I don't think counterattacking if the way to do it.

No as he's trying to play a offside game and long ball game. The whole of the instructions seems a total mess and seem more 'hopeful' than actually a proper strategy of anykind. He seems to have just selected as many shouts as possible then hopes for the best.

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Thanks for the response. I must agree with you; however, I tried this shout last night and I managed to turn the tide of a game as I scored two goals in last 4 minutes and won 2-1. Maybe that's just a luck but when I changed to these instructions my team started to play much better.

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I have attribute masking on in my save. If I attend a game does my 'knowledge' of the players that play increase, so that their attributes become more accurate? If so, is the accuracy affected by my JPA and JPP attribute?

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Does the AI "learn" your tactics if you only use one? I've typically only used one tactic in the past but a blog I read said that it is best to switch between a few different tactics because the AI will catch on to your tendencies in FM 15.

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Right now, the AI will play more cautiously if you have a good run and some managers will use OIs against dangerous players, but it doesn't learn tactics in the way you're thinking. It's also not really possible to decisively crack tactics like that. Otherwise, real managers would be changing everything from week to week. You might be vulnerable against a specific approach, but your opponents would still need the right players to carry it out and would need to weigh the risks of making too many changes to the team's trained tactics.

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Another propably very stupid question - my team keeps conceding goals because my goalkeeper jumps backwards into the goal when trying to make a save, thus not touching the ball before it is in the net.

Has this got anything to do with his instructions? I can't seem to make him stop doing so.

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Another propably very stupid question - my team keeps conceding goals because my goalkeeper jumps backwards into the goal when trying to make a save, thus not touching the ball before it is in the net.

Has this got anything to do with his instructions? I can't seem to make him stop doing so.

What do you mean, like graphics glitch? Or does he run back to the goal and get scored on while he's running? The way you wrote it it sounds like a poor animation unless you have accidentally ticked "jump back into goal more often" in the keepers PI's :D

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What do you mean, like graphics glitch? Or does he run back to the goal and get scored on while he's running? The way you wrote it it sounds like a poor animation unless you have accidentally ticked "jump back into goal more often" in the keepers PI's :D

It may be a glitch in the animation. Instead of jumping out in to the shots, he jumps backwards and the ball will have gone in before he makes the ''save''. Nothing to do about it then?

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It may be a glitch in the animation. Instead of jumping out in to the shots, he jumps backwards and the ball will have gone in before he makes the ''save''. Nothing to do about it then?

It sounds like an animation issue, so nothing to do with your tactics with the keeper; the match engine calculated a goal against you so there may be a tactical issue somewhere, but it isn't with the keeper at the moment of the shot.

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It sounds like an animation issue, so nothing to do with your tactics with the keeper; the match engine calculated a goal against you so there may be a tactical issue somewhere, but it isn't with the keeper at the moment of the shot.

OK. Sounds really strange.

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Is it worth playing a F9 alongside a TM when faced with two CD and two DMs? Does the F9 move into the space marked by the DMs or can they move more laterally/out of the way in order to find space?

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Is it worth playing a F9 alongside a TM when faced with two CD and two DMs? Does the F9 move into the space marked by the DMs or can they move more laterally/out of the way in order to find space?

The easiest way to find out, is to try it :brock:

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Well, I won the game 2-0 but that might have been more to do with having 65% possession and hundreds of attempts on goal :D

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Well, I won the game 2-0 but that might have been more to do with having 65% possession and hundreds of attempts on goal :D

If you watch the game then you'll know if it worked or not as you will be able to monitor what he did during the game :D

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If you watch the game then you'll know if it worked or not as you will be able to monitor what he did during the game :D

A key point and one we make all the time. If you don't watch in some level of detail, then the analysis of performance is always based on stats, and they can be misleading. I'm not saying you did that Marabak, but consider this: 65% possession just means you had the ball a lot, but where? Was it dangerous or purposeful possession? 2-0; so what? Did that reflect the balance of play and the quality of chances created? However, if you watch more detail, you truly learn how the system plays out. You see the relationship between partnerships on the pitch and the way the team creates and shuts down space. None of that is captured with in game stats, but it is all more important than any stat and consequently gives you quality information to work with.

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Oh, I know that possession means absolute nothing (I normally average around 45% yet am pushing for the playoff positions). The possession in this game was largely safe possession, as the opposition had 6 defenders sitting in the box. I only stated my possession and shots ratio to show how much I did dominate the game though, even if I was carrying the F9 as a passenger. The big difficulty is that me team is so poor that generally I have to brute force a goal as my players don't have the technique to play a patient game looking for spaces :D

My biggest difficulty now is that I have only taken 1 point from the last 9 and the league is very congested, playoff hopes are slipping :(

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Balance wise, what appears to be the problem(s) with this formation ?

--------------------------Sweeper Keeper(S)------------------------

-------------------CD(D)----------------CD(D)--------------------

----CWB(A)----------------------------------------------WB(S)--

------------------CM(A)---------------CM(D)---------------------

----AP(S)-----------------------SS(A)--------------------RMD(A)-

-------------------------------F9(S)------------------------------

I would appreciate any tips to minimise some of its glaring weaknesses. Thanks in advance.

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Balance wise, what appears to be the problem(s) with this formation ?

Possibly a few things to keep an eye on - maybe more if you confirm your Mentality and Team Shape. Your right side is aggressive and will be exploitable when you attacks break down. The use of an attacking CM also weakens you quite a bit in the middle - a 4-2-3-1 tends to function better with a little more caution exercised in the MC slots. Make sure you watch a full match and focus on those areas to see how players position themselves, and how much ground they have to make up when defending.

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Possibly a few things to keep an eye on - maybe more if you confirm your Mentality and Team Shape. Your right side is aggressive and will be exploitable when you attacks break down. The use of an attacking CM also weakens you quite a bit in the middle - a 4-2-3-1 tends to function better with a little more caution exercised in the MC slots. Make sure you watch a full match and focus on those areas to see how players position themselves, and how much ground they have to make up when defending.
Possibly a few things to keep an eye on - maybe more if you confirm your Mentality and Team Shape. Your right side is aggressive and will be exploitable when you attacks break down. The use of an attacking CM also weakens you quite a bit in the middle - a 4-2-3-1 tends to function better with a little more caution exercised in the MC slots. Make sure you watch a full match and focus on those areas to see how players position themselves, and how much ground they have to make up when defending.

Thank you for the quick reply.

I use a standard mentality with a Flexible Team Shape.

Along with the Work Ball Into Box, Play Narrower, Exploit the Right Flank, and Much Higher Defensive Line, along with Lower Tempo. No player instructions(actually i gave my false 9 'Hold up Ball')

My objective is for the right flank to be my main creative point. The Raumdeuter on the left was meant to be a sort of direct counterbalance to the otherwise slow-build up play Im generally going for.

Having watched a full match, I did pick up a few things.

1) The actions of my CM(A) are unpredictable. Sometimes he would drop deep to get the ball, pass it forward, and jog at a snails pace, keeping well behind the play. Other times he would stay in central midfield until the ball circulated upfield, and make forward runs at top speed( he has 19 pace). Occasionally when the ball was crossed into the box he'd be right in there competing for it. Other times he'd stay in the semi-circle waiting for a rebound. I must confess I have trouble deciding which role he is better suited performing, though with an Attack Duty I would have thought he'd get forward at every opportunity. Am i better served changing him to a CM support ? or making him a Box-to-box midfielder ? I do like his forward runs on attack duty, but i guess defensive solidity is important too.

2) My WB(S) stays level with my CM(D) when we are on the offensive. Way behind the play, he generally offers little as either a passing option and is still too deep to make early crosses. His main function as i saw it in that game was helping snuff out counter attacks.

3) My Shadow Striker and False 9 seem to get in each other's way a lot. Secondly my False 9 hardly ever holds up the ball(even with the personal instruction to do so). When he attempts to do so he tries to run out wide leading to an instant tackle and turnover in possession. Is the f9 incapable of doing this? Or is there better support duty forward role that works as well with a shadow striker?

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I am sure this has been asked before, but there are so many messages in this thread that i could not find the answer within reasonable amount of time ;)

I have a stupid question about individual training.

Let's say i have 4 strikers and a tactic with a few striker roles.

Is it ok to put their individual training to "complete forward" even though that role is not in my tactics?

Complete forward training would have the widest focus on their attributes, so i think it could be a good overall training for strikers.

However, should they instead work on the exact roles on the tactic to be more effective on that particular role?

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I am sure this has been asked before, but there are so many messages in this thread that i could not find the answer within reasonable amount of time ;)

I have a stupid question about individual training.

Let's say i have 4 strikers and a tactic with a few striker roles.

Is it ok to put their individual training to "complete forward" even though that role is not in my tactics?

Complete forward training would have the widest focus on their attributes, so i think it could be a good overall training for strikers.

However, should they instead work on the exact roles on the tactic to be more effective on that particular role?

Training and the role someone plays isn't linked so it doesn't matter how you train him. You can train them the same role or different, it makes no difference. You should train someone on the schedule that focuses on the attributes you need the players to have though. And while complete forward role does have the widest focus on attributes that also means it'll have less impact than a schedule which focuses on fewer attributes.

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Training and the role someone plays isn't linked so it doesn't matter how you train him. You can train them the same role or different, it makes no difference. You should train someone on the schedule that focuses on the attributes you need the players to have though. And while complete forward role does have the widest focus on attributes that also means it'll have less impact than a schedule which focuses on fewer attributes.

Thanks!

I will have to think about how to go on with their training.

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If I'm managing a weaker (predicted 2nd last), semi professional side in a division comprised of professional and semi pro sides, would a defensive, stand-offish, possession based tactic be viable? I'm using a 442 as it suits what players I do have (don't have any AM players and only one DMC, and no one really wants to sign for me). My squad is very thin and lacks overall quality, but is fairly quick up front. I tried the direct passing tactic I used in the lower divisions but my team can't really pass for peanuts and the long balls are getting cut out by the better quality defenders I'm now facing, so I'm thinking shorter passing. I am concerned about the amount of space that appears between the midfield and defensive lines as well as behind my wingers.

I struggle with the tactics in this game, not really knowing how to read what the game tells me. For instance I took my new short passing tactic into a friendly against a lower division side who lined up in a 451 and we never felt in control of the game.

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I have a player who is a natural AMR. MR is the only Competent. can play long as MR without him having to train for a new position?

sorry for my English

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I have a player who is a natural AMR. MR is the only Competent. can play long as MR without him having to train for a new position?

sorry for my English

Yes, it will only see his decision making affected, if you play him out of position. As he is already Competent, he'll do OK.

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If I'm managing a weaker (predicted 2nd last), semi professional side in a division comprised of professional and semi pro sides, would a defensive, stand-offish, possession based tactic be viable?

Hard to say, but from the info you have provided, you are likely to be inferior to your opponents and so might not have the right mix of players to pull off that style of play - and a 4-4-2 really isn't a possession orientated formation either. I'd suggest using a Mentality like Counter or Standard to create space for the pacy players, and then try to focus the ball specifically towards the quick guys. If they are on the wings, try to Exploit The Flanks, if central try to Exploit The Middle. Consider Pass Into Space, but again be mindful of the passing capability of your team.

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Yes, it will only see his decision making affected, if you play him out of position. As he is already Competent, he'll do OK.

thank .It will have a major impact on the decision? or it will be negligible?

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meh get so frustrated with this game, trying to play a

3 CB

2WB

1DM

2CM

2FW

Idea is short passing, nice and tight, CB have the option to give it to the DM or WB, WB or DM can pass to the MC, they work up together slowly, F9 drops deep to help make more numbers.

All i can accomplish by trying to make this is getting pinned in my own half and watch the other team have 20-30+ shots, but they end up doing what im trying to do. when i move in to tackle, they pass it back to their CDs to recycle.

When i do get the ball forward, i just watch my player get tackled, im really confused. I have tried playing with basic postions like DMd, MCs, MCa, AF, DLF, WBs and RGA, DLP, ALP, F9, CF and the result is the same, im basically just getting my 11 players to be a wall. What do you need to see from me to help rectify it?

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Hard to say, but from the info you have provided, you are likely to be inferior to your opponents and so might not have the right mix of players to pull off that style of play - and a 4-4-2 really isn't a possession orientated formation either. I'd suggest using a Mentality like Counter or Standard to create space for the pacy players, and then try to focus the ball specifically towards the quick guys. If they are on the wings, try to Exploit The Flanks, if central try to Exploit The Middle. Consider Pass Into Space, but again be mindful of the passing capability of your team.

Thanks for that, very helpful. WE certainly are inferior to most opponents, I might switch onto the counter for a while and see how that goes. My quick players are definitely the two forwards. I set up a 4141 to help against opponents who exploit the space between the banks of four. Haven't had a chance to test it out yet though.

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meh get so frustrated with this game, trying to play a

3 CB

2WB

1DM

2CM

2FW

Idea is short passing, nice and tight, CB have the option to give it to the DM or WB, WB or DM can pass to the MC, they work up together slowly, F9 drops deep to help make more numbers.

All i can accomplish by trying to make this is getting pinned in my own half and watch the other team have 20-30+ shots, but they end up doing what im trying to do. when i move in to tackle, they pass it back to their CDs to recycle.

When i do get the ball forward, i just watch my player get tackled, im really confused. I have tried playing with basic postions like DMd, MCs, MCa, AF, DLF, WBs and RGA, DLP, ALP, F9, CF and the result is the same, im basically just getting my 11 players to be a wall. What do you need to see from me to help rectify it?

What's your players roles and duties(the ones you settle on)? TIs?

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