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Stupid Questions Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)

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playing a 4-1-2-2-1 wide with saints cant score cant stop conceeding.. any idea what to do im usinglike 7 intructions, higher tempo, short passing retain possession, work into box, play out of defense, higher line closw down more with fluid and control why wont it work.

What Roles (Duties), Strategy and Team Shape are you using?

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There is a point where its time to stop helping someone who constantly acts in this same way, sadly.

Exactly. I'm beginning to think that he's just trolling tbh.

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Chill and behave people. LeedsUnitedForLife, like people have said you need to LEARN how to post up more information when you ask for help.

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i cant post picturesas i dont have paint so a new thread would be pointless

Then please stop posting. If you can't provide the information that's been asked yet keep asking questions no-one can help you. You just come across as trolling and like has been pointed out enough is enough and one of the reasons you'll be banned as you just don't listen. You know things are bad when fellow forum members all avoid you and don't want to help due to you never taking the advice given. We've tried to direct you and help you as much as we can but there is only so much we can do and so much we can take before we say enough is enough. We are now at this point.

You don't have to use screenshots, sure they help, but if you can talk about the tactic, its settings, the issues you are having etc in detail then that is enough.

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It can be a bit of a chicken/Egg - If you want them to move up the divisions you will need to focus on them a bit. It took me 3 seasons at Bilbao but i got my B team into the second division which is a great level to use for developing youth. To get there i did have to focus on who i sent them, building them a bit of a squad and also setting them up tactically :)

Cheers Jam, yeah i'm just in preseason now but i've scout 5 or so team in their division and a few player to see what sort of level they are up against. I think i;ve been able to tell who should cut a decent rating in the league and wh owould just be fodder from my youth system. Hopefully i should be able to get a better idea a few games in, if not for the first window.

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What might be gained from retraining a player who is already highly accomplished in an alternative position to natural?

I have Berardi at Juventus. Play him on the right wing as an inside forward and he absolutely rinses it. If I were to train him to be a natural right winger, could I expect even better performances? Or would this lower the ceiling up to which his attributes would rise, working against the effect of retraining?

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What exactly does Run at defence instruction do?

It instructs your attacking strata players to dribble more often

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Can anyone explain the main difference between a trequarista and advanced playmaker with attack duty? i have used both in my current system and sometimes one works better then the other.

Also what is a better defensive option in a flat four midfield DLP with defensive duty or central midfielder with defensive duty?

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In your opinions which gets forward more, a BBM or a CM S? Read somewhere that a CM S is aggressive so did wonder as I assumed it would go CM S, BBM S, CM A in order of getting forward from CM?

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In your opinions which gets forward more, a BBM or a CM S? Read somewhere that a CM S is aggressive so did wonder as I assumed it would go CM S, BBM S, CM A in order of getting forward from CM?

For me, the BBM has been more aggressive, hands down. I often use one in place of a CM(A) if I need a bit more defensive help in a particular match.

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Can anyone explain the main difference between a trequarista and advanced playmaker with attack duty? i have used both in my current system and sometimes one works better then the other.

Also what is a better defensive option in a flat four midfield DLP with defensive duty or central midfielder with defensive duty?

The Treq at the least has roam from position as a default PI, and though you can't see them anymore, I would say the Treq also has a higher mentality meaning he stays further forward and doesn't drop back as deep on defense. There may be some other difference, but those are the main two that stick out for me.

For #2, it depends on what you want the player to do for you. For purely defensive purposes, I don't think there is much difference other than the DLP will drop back a bit more than the CM(D). I would use a CM(D) if I didn't want to funnel play through a certain player, but otherwise I have not seen any real differences defensively.

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When a player is played in a position other than their natural position, their position training says they are being trained in the position in which they are being played (i.e. not their natural position) but it also says "0%" allocated to this. What does this mean?

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When a player is played in a position other than their natural position, their position training says they are being trained in the position in which they are being played (i.e. not their natural position) but it also says "0%" allocated to this. What does this mean?

You haven't allocated any training time to the new position; you have to manually set the player to train in the new position if you want him to learn it. Otherwise the game is just reflecting where he is playing for the match training.

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You haven't allocated any training time to the new position; you have to manually set the player to train in the new position if you want him to learn it. Otherwise the game is just reflecting where he is playing for the match training.

Ok thanks. So basically it has no effect?

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When players learn preferred moves as well as his individual training, will it slow down his development massively?

When retraining to new position, will it take PA points too, like half a star off?

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Ok thanks. So basically it has no effect?

Right, since you might just be playing him there for a game or two because of injury/suspension, and you don't want to use any of his training time on it.

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When players learn preferred moves as well as his individual training, will it slow down his development massively?

When retraining to new position, will it take PA points too, like half a star off?

For question 1, I don't know about massively, since the bulk of development occurs from playing competitive matches, but it will slow it down. Adding preferred moves eats into the individual training time he would otherwise spend on skills training. On #2, I am not sure anymore- it used to be that way, but I think it's been changed. I'll let someone else answer that for sure.

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What happens if you use "look for overlap" but your formation does not have fullbacks (for example 3-5-2) ? Thanks

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What happens if you use "look for overlap" but your formation does not have fullbacks (for example 3-5-2) ? Thanks

Your wingers drop off, stay back and hold up the ball, looking for runners through the middle (or central players moving into the channels).

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For question 1, I don't know about massively, since the bulk of development occurs from playing competitive matches, but it will slow it down. Adding preferred moves eats into the individual training time he would otherwise spend on skills training. On #2, I am not sure anymore- it used to be that way, but I think it's been changed. I'll let someone else answer that for sure.

Thanks for the reply Doc! Also, would it make sense to have my players still on PPM or new position training during pre-season?

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Thanks for the reply Doc! Also, would it make sense to have my players still on PPM or new position training during pre-season?

Whichever you prefer, really. My preference is to do neither but attribute/role training, with high fitness training- I want them spending their time on getting their physical attributes moving in the right direction after the several week break. However, there is really no reason not to work them on things you want done. It all depends on your objectives. On the PPM, if they are still working on it from the previous season, I think you have to leave them to it, or you will start over from the beginning. There is no way I know of to "suspend" it just for a few week, though I wish there was (or I knew how to do it :D)

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Whichever you prefer, really. My preference is to do neither but attribute/role training, with high fitness training- I want them spending their time on getting their physical attributes moving in the right direction after the several week break. However, there is really no reason not to work them on things you want done. It all depends on your objectives. On the PPM, if they are still working on it from the previous season, I think you have to leave them to it, or you will start over from the beginning. There is no way I know of to "suspend" it just for a few week, though I wish there was (or I knew how to do it :D)

Brilliant, cheers Doc!

Call me OCD but you've got a weird ] in your location tab! ;)

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The problem around here is more like having 70% possession at half-time, winning by 2 goals, closing hard on the opponent, having 15-20 shots against 0-2 shots and during the 2nd half it's like my team starts loosing control of the match. Now, complacency could be an issue but I insist with my players to stay focus around every 10-12 minutes and I also have always a box with the opponent's formation which I do not see roles and / or duty changes. So is this a known issue or something to be improved in a near future or is there any kind of solution ?

It's not something that happens from time to time, it's every match. Tried a more lower tempo, be more disciplined, setting the team with more support duties and this keeps happening.

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If it happens every match its something you are doing wrong rather than it being a bug/issue like you think it is. Without any real tactical details from yourself no-one can help. It's better in its own thread too.

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If it happens every match its something you are doing wrong rather than it being a bug/issue like you think it is. Without any real tactical details from yourself no-one can help. It's better in its own thread too.

Hi Cleon, I've been implementing your Ajax youth development methods and it's really intrigued me to produce my players better. Question, was the real reason for you to not work on match training at all (0%) due to the fact that you don't find a benefit for it because you're a top team in the league?

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If it happens every match its something you are doing wrong rather than it being a bug/issue like you think it is. Without any real tactical details from yourself no-one can help. It's better in its own thread too.

Thanks Cleon, since it's a minor issue I wasn't sure about opening a thread just for this but maybe more people is dealing with this and a thread might help.

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Hi Cleon, I've been implementing your Ajax youth development methods and it's really intrigued me to produce my players better. Question, was the real reason for you to not work on match training at all (0%) due to the fact that you don't find a benefit for it because you're a top team in the league?

No I don't use it regardless of level my team is playing. I don't need a little tactic boost and have faith in the tactic I use. When developing players I want every single bit of training to be spent on the players developing rather than wasting it.

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The problem around here is more like having 70% possession at half-time, winning by 2 goals, closing hard on the opponent, having 15-20 shots against 0-2 shots and during the 2nd half it's like my team starts loosing control of the match. Now, complacency could be an issue but I insist with my players to stay focus around every 10-12 minutes and I also have always a box with the opponent's formation which I do not see roles and / or duty changes. So is this a known issue or something to be improved in a near future or is there any kind of solution ?

It's not something that happens from time to time, it's every match. Tried a more lower tempo, be more disciplined, setting the team with more support duties and this keeps happening.

I know this might not be much but I've read no team can keep up with high pressing for the full 90mins, not unless if you have 11 Ronaldos in the team! I'd suggest just going a lower mentality, defensive would usually iron games for me.

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No I don't use it regardless of level my team is playing. I don't need a little tactic boost and have faith in the tactic I use. When developing players I want every single bit of training to be spent on the players developing rather than wasting it.

Cheers! :)

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I know this might not be much but I've read no team can keep up with high pressing for the full 90mins, not unless if you have 11 Ronaldos in the team! I'd suggest just going a lower mentality, defensive would usually iron games for me.

Thanks.

I use Control and also Counter and the same issue happens with Counter. Thread is open.

P.S. We are not pressing the full 90 minutes, if a team has a lot of possession like 65-70% then the high pressing is reduced to the little amount of time when the team does not have the ball. So, if during 45 minutes your team has the ball 70% it's 31,5 minutes, it means your team would be pressing just for 15 minutes.

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Call me OCD but you've got a weird ] in your location tab! ;)

It was put in there by a LLM mod (Taipan did it I think) in the old days (2004 or thereabouts) when it was used to identify LLaMa players. I've just left it, like an old battle-scar or something :)

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Do the various leagues have their own preferred tactics? For instance, in my last save as Dortmund in Germany, pretty much every team I lined up against played either 4141 or 4411 apart from Bayern who played a 4231(narrow), with little changing between formation within game. Now, on my Excelsior save in Holland, I pretty much play against 4231(wide), with lots of teams switching to a 433 (with 3 strikers, not wingers) at half time.

Now, this leads me to my next question. I play a very direct (route one) 442, with a TM/AF combo upfront, two W(A) and a DLP(D)/CM(D) combo in midfield. I exploit the wings, and play a high tempo, hoping to keep it tight at the back and hit the opponent quickly with a big ball up to either my wingers or TM. This has been pretty succcesful, leading me to 11th in my first season, despite being predicted 17th (I think) and a 40k a week wage budget. However, I struggle quite a bit when teams switch to the 433, often having 3 attackers man-marking my defence. Obviously the space is down the flanks then, which my tactic should already be utilising, but what else would you do to counter this?

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If a player has the PPM "comes deep to get ball" and "tries to beat offside-trap" will he then:

A) Come deep to get the ball, flick it on and then blast upwards again to beat the offside-trap or

B) Pick'n choose between them as he sees fit, sometimes coming deep and sometimes be looking to beat the offside-trap?

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would an AP(A) at AMC with 'roam from position' provide the same attacking movement as a trequartista?

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would an AP(A) at AMC with 'roam from position' provide the same attacking movement as a trequartista?

Similar, yes, which prompts the question: Why not just use a Treq?

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If a player has the PPM "comes deep to get ball" and "tries to beat offside-trap" will he then:

A) Come deep to get the ball, flick it on and then blast upwards again to beat the offside-trap or

B) Pick'n choose between them as he sees fit, sometimes coming deep and sometimes be looking to beat the offside-trap?

Mostly B. Comes Deep To Get Ball is more likely to be shown in build up play, whilst Tries To Beat Offside Trap will more often be used at the culmination of an attack.

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Mostly B. Comes Deep To Get Ball is more likely to be shown in build up play, whilst Tries To Beat Offside Trap will more often be used at the culmination of an attack.

Thanks for the answer RTH

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Do the various leagues have their own preferred tactics? For instance, in my last save as Dortmund in Germany, pretty much every team I lined up against played either 4141 or 4411 apart from Bayern who played a 4231(narrow), with little changing between formation within game. Now, on my Excelsior save in Holland, I pretty much play against 4231(wide), with lots of teams switching to a 433 (with 3 strikers, not wingers) at half time.

Now, this leads me to my next question. I play a very direct (route one) 442, with a TM/AF combo upfront, two W(A) and a DLP(D)/CM(D) combo in midfield. I exploit the wings, and play a high tempo, hoping to keep it tight at the back and hit the opponent quickly with a big ball up to either my wingers or TM. This has been pretty succcesful, leading me to 11th in my first season, despite being predicted 17th (I think) and a 40k a week wage budget. However, I struggle quite a bit when teams switch to the 433, often having 3 attackers man-marking my defence. Obviously the space is down the flanks then, which my tactic should already be utilising, but what else would you do to counter this?

The leagues themselves mightn't have defined tactical preferences at the start - the tactical preferences of teams are set by the researchers. However, when "real" managers disappear as the game progresses, I believe the tactical tendencies of the league are shaped by the tactical tendency set in the database for that nation.

Regarding your tactical question, I'd consider losing the Target Man if you want to exclusively focus on making the use of the space behind the AI AML/R. At the moment, you'll be experiencing a mix of distribution both towards the TM and the Wingers. Lose the attraction of the Target Man, and you'll see a much higher proportion of passes player out wide.

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The leagues themselves mightn't have defined tactical preferences at the start - the tactical preferences of teams are set by the researchers. However, when "real" managers disappear as the game progresses, I believe the tactical tendencies of the league are shaped by the tactical tendency set in the database for that nation.

Regarding your tactical question, I'd consider losing the Target Man if you want to exclusively focus on making the use of the space behind the AI AML/R. At the moment, you'll be experiencing a mix of distribution both towards the TM and the Wingers. Lose the attraction of the Target Man, and you'll see a much higher proportion of passes player out wide.

It's also possible for teams to follow tactical trends just like real life over time. So if one team starts to overachieve for a while then you might find teams across the world using similar shapes.

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It's also possible for teams to follow tactical trends just like real life over time. So if one team starts to overachieve for a while then you might find teams across the world using similar shapes.

Yes and it's friggin' annoying when it happens to be a formation that gives me problems :lol:

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Cheers guys. I might try dropping the TM to a DLF anyway, as I find he stays too high up the pitch alongside the AF when I don't have the ball. Would this change impact on the distribution to the wingers also?

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Cheers guys. I might try dropping the TM to a DLF anyway, as I find he stays too high up the pitch alongside the AF when I don't have the ball. Would this change impact on the distribution to the wingers also?

When using a target man, players will look to get it to him as a first option, so yes, it will change the way your distribution looks. Unless I've misunderstood what you are asking?

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Cheers guys. I might try dropping the TM to a DLF anyway, as I find he stays too high up the pitch alongside the AF when I don't have the ball. Would this change impact on the distribution to the wingers also?

Yes. With a TM in situ, and with the shouts you use, you were instructing the team to look to the TM or to the flanks - the decision making of the ball carrier and the state of play on the pitch will have affected which option they took. By removing the TM element, you will see more of a bias just to the flanks - though it won't be 100% hit out wide as again the context of the move is important. If both wingers are marked, the ball is likely to be recycled in field.

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Just as a quick thought experiment, how viable is it to have a tactic that has basically no instructions and just left pretty generic? For example;

Flexible

Standard

GK-D

FB-S

CD-D

CD-D

FB-S

WM-A

CM-D

CM-S

WM-A

DLF-S

AF-A

No Team or Player Instructions.

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You don't need to use TIs or PIs. The generic settings will just produce a balanced style of play.

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Similar, yes, which prompts the question: Why not just use a Treq?

I want a sort of player who behaves as a treq when we have possession (move laterally, drop deep etc) but will press and track back defensively (like an AP does). So i'm trying to find a way of achieving both if that's possible

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When using a target man, players will look to get it to him as a first option, so yes, it will change the way your distribution looks. Unless I've misunderstood what you are asking?
Yes. With a TM in situ, and with the shouts you use, you were instructing the team to look to the TM or to the flanks - the decision making of the ball carrier and the state of play on the pitch will have affected which option they took. By removing the TM element, you will see more of a bias just to the flanks - though it won't be 100% hit out wide as again the context of the move is important. If both wingers are marked, the ball is likely to be recycled in field.

In general play, I am happy with a long ball up to either the TM or to the wingers, letting my players decide which is the best option. Against a 433Narrow though, the centre of the pitch is a little congested, whereas my wingers are more likely to have some space, so it actually sounds like a good idea to change the TM role to something that is less of a long ball target, making my players look to my wide players a little more. Which is leading me to an interesting thought, literally as I type this, of trying out a Wide Target Man... I've never used one of those in a tactic before :D

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If you wanted to try and replicate the PPM 'Comes deep to get ball' with a PI would it be better to use 'Hold position' or 'Roams from position'?

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