Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)

[all4everdragon]

Does anyone have the CWB role with a support duty ?:confused:

[Johnny Ace]

Does anyone have the CWB role with a support duty ?:confused:

I tried it when an advanced winger notched a couple of early goals against me. Switched my CWB(A) to (S), LM(S) to LM(D) Then a CM from (S) to (A) then won 5-2 with the CM(A) getting a hattrick The one & only time I've tried it though but it did help with my exploited left half side for that match

[all4everdragon]

I tried it when an advanced winger notched a couple of early goals against me. Switched my CWB(A) to (S), LM(S) to LM(D) Then a CM from (S) to (A) then won 5-2 with the CM(A) getting a hattrick The one & only time I've tried it though but it did help with my exploited left half side for that match

But the text box description says the CWB role is only available with an attack duty :confused: although the support duty is available and I think PI are the same no matter the duty. Some sort of error to be fixed with the next patch maybe.

[Johnny Ace]

But the text box description says the CWB role is only available with an attack duty :confused: although the support duty is available and I think PI are the same no matter the duty. Some sort of error to be fixed with the next patch maybe.

Might be worth raising in the bugs section pal

He was definitely less aggressive though when on (S) from what I was seeing

[Cleon]

But the text box description says the CWB role is only available with an attack duty :confused: although the support duty is available and I think PI are the same no matter the duty. Some sort of error to be fixed with the next patch maybe.

It's an error with the text. Text can't really be changed during release and we have to wait for it to be corrected in FM16. They are aware of the issue so no need to raise it There wasn't enough time to add the new support duty to the text to make it different. However the support duty on the role works as intended, only the description that's not been updated.

[all4everdragon]

Great

[hicuty]

what is the difference between ppm and some specific player instructions? say if i want a dm to play long balls, teaching him long balls ppm is better or giving him just direct passes pi?

[all4everdragon]

I guess being a preferred movement the players will always choose the ppm instead of any instruction. The problem with ppm is that it takes to long for the player to learn it.

[hicuty]

then it is better to just give pi? in case if he plays a different position

[isignedupfornorealreason]

I'm going to experiment with this but I thought I'd ask anyway.

Could a Raumdeuter work with a False 9 in a lone striker formation. 4-1-3-1-1 (DM-MC-MC-MR-AML-FWD).

I'm theorising that a R/A with a CM/A and B2B behind them and a F9 would cause the opposition defence to get tied up in knots. But does anyone have any thoughts on it? Pipe dream perhaps?

[Dr. Hook]

what is the difference between ppm and some specific player instructions? say if i want a dm to play long balls, teaching him long balls ppm is better or giving him just direct passes pi?

All4everdragon had it basically right. The PPM is a governing tendency for the player which he will always look to do regardless of the instructions/role etc. The TI is what you are telling him to do specifically. Make sense?

[Dr. Hook]

then it is better to just give pi? in case if he plays a different position

SHould have included this in the above: it all depends on what you want from the player. If he is massively good at, say, long shots, you might want to train him PPM to shoot from distance. The advantage of the PPM if they fit the player is that he will always look to do those things. If you want to use the player in different ways at different times, then the PPMs can hinder you. It's all down to what you want.

[phnompenhandy]

Generally speaking, if you have the best backroom staff in the world, how good is their advice re training PPMs?

(Mine tell me to train wingbacks to stay back t all times, but they're far from the best!).

[Cleon]

I'm going to experiment with this but I thought I'd ask anyway.

Could a Raumdeuter work with a False 9 in a lone striker formation. 4-1-3-1-1 (DM-MC-MC-MR-AML-FWD).

I'm theorising that a R/A with a CM/A and B2B behind them and a F9 would cause the opposition defence to get tied up in knots. But does anyone have any thoughts on it? Pipe dream perhaps?

Like anything, it can work fine. It just depends on the rest of the set up.

Generally speaking, if you have the best backroom staff in the world, how good is their advice re training PPMs?

(Mine tell me to train wingbacks to stay back t all times, but they're far from the best!).

Even with the best staff in the world they still don't understand what kind of system you use or philosophy you are creating at the club, so still ignore them and go with what you want.

[A1984]

What exactly is an inside forward and how does an inside forward differ from a standard winger.

[all4everdragon]

What exactly is an inside forward and how does an inside forward differ from a standard winger.

It's a player that plays on the wings using the opposite foot (on the left flank plays with the right foot; on the right flank playes with the left foot), the idea is the player to run in diagonal, dragging the opponent (generaly the full back) and openning space to his FB or WB. The Winger is a player that runs more near the line, giving more width to the attack.

[isignedupfornorealreason]

Like anything, it can work fine. It just depends on the rest of the set up.

Hmm, well my theorycrafting led me to create this;

GK/D

DL: CWB/A

DC: CD/D

DC: CD/D

DR: FB/A

DM: Anchor/D

MC: B2B/S

MC: CM/A

MR: WM/S

AML: R/A

FC: F9/S

Maybe it needs more creator types, though I was trying to see if I could make something that uses roles I don't tend to use often in midfield and maybe rely less on out and out playmakers.

Interesting that in that set up only the F9 and WM need vision, though I would argue I would need a midfield team that is competent at seeing and creating the passes for the Raumdeuter... I'll get round to experimenting on it though.

Oh and the Team setup is;

Counter / Flexible

Shorter Passing,

Pass into Space,

Push higher up,

Close down less.

Push higher is to compensate for the DM pushing the line back, the rest is the style I'm aiming for, a short passing game based around containment as opposed to rapid pressing.

[Barnet]

Not sure this counts as a simple question but...

I play a 4-1-2-3 DM Wide (with and DM and AML & AMR) as I like the defensive discipline and protection from the DM and the ability to retain possession. When i come up against teams with the same formation I find it very difficult to break them down (for the same reasons). What do you guys do against 4-1-2-3 DM Wide?

[Double0Seven]

AML/AMR tend to track back less than ML/R. You can push your backs higher and try to overload their flanks. That is what I try. Most of the times I would end up using a half back, add more attacking instructions to the backs or use exploit the flanks.

[vasilli07]

Not sure this counts as a simple question but...

I play a 4-1-2-3 DM Wide (with and DM and AML & AMR) as I like the defensive discipline and protection from the DM and the ability to retain possession. When i come up against teams with the same formation I find it very difficult to break them down (for the same reasons). What do you guys do against 4-1-2-3 DM Wide?

Or you can drop your wide AMs to wide M position instead. Tinker with the PI to create the raumdeuter or inside forward roles. The thread below is a guide to create different formations using 4-5-1 as a basic shape. Can take a look if you are interested.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/412695-The-4-5-1-The-swiss-army-knife-of-formations

[bdixon]

'Pass Into Space' and 'Run At Defence' team instructions, do what exactly? encourage more through balls and running with the ball I assume, but for who?

[b28937]

Training Questions

For the time being, I let my coaches handle general and individual training while I control match training and focus on learning other aspects of the game. The entire club is almost always happy with their training. This works for the most part, but I don't always agree with a few of the individual traing choices. However, when I take control of individual training, it's not long before I have 5 or more playes unhappy about training workload (which is strange because I keep the vast majority of players on the exact same individual training). The unhappy players almost always include any player learning a PPM. If I try critical individual talks, usually they disagree and moral drops.

Any ideas about what's going on here and advice on how to resolve it (get them back to being happy like they were with the coach in control)? Also, should I even care about the complaints of the PPM or some other trainees who are cusp players just trying to break into a substitution spot on the first team? My feeling is let them complain, they need the extra work whether they want it or not. Usually lowering focus intensity doesn't seem to help, especially for the PPM players. Hmm should I also be making changes to general training as well as individual training when I take control, could that be it?

On a related note while I'm at it, sometimes my coach says something along the lines of, "the player would improve with more focus and application during training." Does this mean the player needs to work harder at training (maybe increase training intensity or criiticize traing level) or does it mean the individual training focus should be changed (i.e., instead of focus being Winger (All Duties), change it to something more specific to Crossing only)?

Thanks for any help))

[Fritz13]

I always have feedback from my Asst Man that there are at least 5 players unhappy but I have yet to hear specifically from them so I think it's actually not as much of a big deal as the back room guys are making out.

[Dr. Hook]

Training Questions

For the time being, I let my coaches handle general and individual training while I control match training and focus on learning other aspects of the game. The entire club is almost always happy with their training. This works for the most part, but I don't always agree with a few of the individual traing choices. However, when I take control of individual training, it's not long before I have 5 or more playes unhappy about training workload (which is strange because I keep the vast majority of players on the exact same individual training). The unhappy players almost always include any player learning a PPM. If I try critical individual talks, usually they disagree and moral drops.

Any ideas about what's going on here and advice on how to resolve it (get them back to being happy like they were with the coach in control)? Also, should I even care about the complaints of the PPM or some other trainees who are cusp players just trying to break into a substitution spot on the first team? My feeling is let them complain, they need the extra work whether they want it or not. Usually lowering focus intensity doesn't seem to help, especially for the PPM players. Hmm should I also be making changes to general training as well as individual training when I take control, could that be it?

On a related note while I'm at it, sometimes my coach says something along the lines of, "the player would improve with more focus and application during training." Does this mean the player needs to work harder at training (maybe increase training intensity or criiticize traing level) or does it mean the individual training focus should be changed (i.e., instead of focus being Winger (All Duties), change it to something more specific to Crossing only)?

Thanks for any help))

In the cases where they are learning PPM, this will create "unhappy about the extra work" kind of thing. I had this earlier, and dropped the individual training to light, as you did, and it didn't help either. So, I just let them moan. Screw 'em. I haven't noticed that it affects anything. They don't seem to work less hard in training, and once the PPM is over with, they revert to normal.

On the focus and application, that is, as near as I can tell, this year's equivalent to FM14 where they would be in the report for not doing well in training and I criticize them for it. Sometimes they get upset, but again, screw 'em. Sometimes it has worked. There's nothing you can do to fix this with the workload; these are just players that are poor trainers. If they are young, you can tutor them with a more professional player to help get rid of it.

[all4everdragon]

Can this phrase - Tiki-taka is both defensive and offensive in equal measure - be translated in FM terms to a Standard Mentality ?

[jumbohotdog]

Who do you tend to substitute if they are having a bad game your striker or defenders.

[RTHerringbone]

Can this phrase - Tiki-taka is both defensive and offensive in equal measure - be translated in FM terms to a Standard Mentality ?

How would you arrive at that conclusion? Not saying you are wrong or right, but it is an unusual question.

[RTHerringbone]

Who do you tend to substitute if they are having a bad game your striker or defenders.

You need to see why they are having a bad game. Is it an off day for the player, or an off day for the system?

[Conman14]

Okay figured I'd finally post in here, seeing as it's a problem which has blighted a couple of saves recently...

My teams don't seem to have a problem scoring goals, however we seem to concede A LOT (in the region of 2 per game, on average). See these screenshots from an old Brentford save, and my current RB Leipzig game... Brentford S1 - Brentford S2 (2nd despite conceding over 80 goals!?) - Brentford S3 - RB Leipzig S1

It doesn't matter what I do with defenders and instructions, they always tend to either over-commit and find themselves out of position, or they don't pick up their man, usually when an exchange is occuring (e.g. a left back moving over to the wing to close down a wide player, leaving his man in the centre). I've tried pushing up, dropping deeper, marking tighter, holding position, all of that! It's all well and good winning games, but when you're conceding 2 goals in the process it can get REALLY annoying.

Where do I start? I tend to play some kind of 4-5-1 or 4-2-3-1, although in my Leipzig game I am currently running a Flat 4-3-3 due to the players they have.

[edit] The roles were, When I left my Brentford game...

GK - Sweeper Keeper/S (changed to GK/D in desparation)

DR - Full Back/D

DCR - Central Defender/D or S

DCL - Ball Playing/C

DL - Wing Back/A

DMC - Ball Winning/D

MCR - BBM

MCL - AP/A

AMR - Raumdeuter

AML - Winger/Inside Forward depending on who played, usually the former

ST - Target Man/A

TIs - Short Passing, Work Ball into Box, Play out of defence, Float Crosses, Drop Deeper, Get Stuck In, Prevent Short GK Dist, Lower Tempo, Be More Disciplined.

And in my Leipzig game...

GK - GK/D

DR - Inverted Wing Back

DC both Central Defender/D

DL - CWB/A

MCR - CM/A

MC - BWM/D

MCL - DLP/S

STCR - AF

STC - TM

STCL - Poacher

TIs - Direct Passing, Push Higher Up, Stick to Positions, Close Down More, Get Stuck In, Lower Temp, Be More Disciplined

[vasilli07]

You need to post your players duties/roles and team instructions.

[Conman14]

You need to post your players duties/roles and team instructions.

Ah sorry about that, I'll edit the original post to include these. When I left my Brentford game...

GK - Sweeper Keeper/S (changed to GK/D in desparation)

DR - Full Back/D

DCR - Central Defender/D or S

DCL - Ball Playing/C

DL - Wing Back/A

DMC - Ball Winning/D

MCR - BBM

MCL - AP/A

AMR - Raumdeuter

AML - Winger/Inside Forward depending on who played, usually the former

ST - Target Man/A

TIs - Short Passing, Work Ball into Box, Play out of defence, Float Crosses, Drop Deeper, Get Stuck In, Prevent Short GK Dist, Lower Tempo, Be More Disciplined.

And in my Leipzig game...

GK - GK/D

DR - Inverted Wing Back

DC both Central Defender/D

DL - CWB/A

MCR - CM/A

MC - BWM/D

MCL - DLP/S

STCR - AF

STC - TM

STCL - Poacher

TIs - Direct Passing, Float Crosses, Push Higher Up, Stick to Positions, Close Down More, Get Stuck In, Lower Temp, Be More Disciplined

[Johnny Ace]

Do you find most of the goals you concede coming from your left side?

[Conman14]

Do you find most of the goals you concede coming from your left side?

Team report suggests that the Most Common Opponent Assist Area is the Left Wing

[all4everdragon]

How would you arrive at that conclusion? Not saying you are wrong or right, but it is an unusual question.

Just asking, not making a conclusion If lower mentalities mean defensive mentalities, and higher mentalities mean offensive mentalities, I was wondering if Standard would mean it's neither defensive or offensive and if so if it could be a faithful translation of that tiki-taka definition.

[Cleon]

Just asking, not making a conclusion If lower mentalities mean defensive mentalities, and higher mentalities mean offensive mentalities, I was wondering if Standard would mean it's neither defensive or offensive and if so if it could be a faithful translation of that tiki-taka definition.

Defensive can be attacking and attacking can be defensive though. The roles and duties you select are what makes the biggest difference and determines if you are really attacking or defending.

[Johnny Ace]

Team report suggests that the Most Common Opponent Assist Area is the Left Wing

Is that your left side or theirs? Sorry, without the game infront of me, I can't tell

The only reason I asked that was because the running theme in your setups was an attacking left back, was just wondering if there was some sort of cover there for his runs forward I can see in some of the the sets ups you have midfielders on the left hand side that won't help cover. I know I've had problems with it

[Conman14]

Is that your left side or theirs? Sorry, without the game infront of me, I can't tell

The only reason I asked that was because the running theme in your setups was an attacking left back, was just wondering if there was some sort of cover there for his runs forward I can see in some of the the sets ups you have midfielders on the left hand side that won't help cover. I know I've had problems with it

It's hard to tell because I left the Brentford game a few days ago in a fit of rage and haven't touched it since It always seems like it is a problem with assists coming from the flanks, I tend to swap between which side goes attacking. In its standard form with the left side being attacking, I have tried to have the left sided centre mid on a defensive role, such a CM/D or BWM/D, and then in my head having the left sided centre back on cover would help too, surely?

Also, forgot to mention I was playing Fluid and Balanced with styles etc.

[all4everdragon]

Defensive can be attacking and attacking can be defensive though. The roles and duties you select are what makes the biggest difference and determines if you are really attacking or defending.

yes indeed, but the question was aside roles and duties, just mentality for itself

[Dr. Hook]

yes indeed, but the question was aside roles and duties, just mentality for itself

In that case then, no. Standard is neither attacking nor defensive. It is middle of the road. In a philosophical sense I suppose it is both, since it does both in equal measure, but the reality is that neither measure could be described as attacking or defensive. As Cleon said, the best way to emulate an attacking AND defensive tactic is through roles and duties, and perhaps philosophy as well.

[all4everdragon]

In that case then, no. Standard is neither attacking nor defensive. It is middle of the road. In a philosophical sense I suppose it is both, since it does both in equal measure, but the reality is that neither measure could be described as attacking or defensive. As Cleon said, the best way to emulate an attacking AND defensive tactic is through roles and duties, and perhaps philosophy as well.

Thanks Dr. Hook, the question was really about Mentality itself and if Standard could be, in FM terms, the mentality closer to the tiki-taka definition I quoted from wiki.

[Cleon]

Tiki-taka isn't anything about mentity thought it's the use of short passing and intelligent interchangeable movement and that can be achieved in any mentality. The key is the role selections and duties used not the mentality. You can attack and defend equally in any strategy that's

Why role selection is vital, you can't really isolate mentality and apply it to what you are asking imo

[all4everdragon]

Tiki Take isn't anything about mentity thought it's the use of short passing and intelligent interchangeable movement and that can be achieved in any mentality. The key is the role selections and duties used not the mentality imo

But there are few adjustments to make when it's tiki-taka in football and tiki-taka in FM, I guess. Or that way we could set Contain or Overload that it just wouldn't matter. :confused: If, by definition, tiki-taka is both defensive and offensive (imo it's more defensive in the sense that the team is suppose to defend with / having the ball) and if, by definition, Standard mentality in FM is both, I wondered that it would be appropriate using Standard. And then, with roles and duties, I can give the team a few inches more defensive or more offensive. Is this out of logic ?

[Sussex Hammer]

Got another question. Enner Valencia is doing great for me as a CF A. Scores plenty and has a great assist record. His greatest threat is when he runs down the right and whips over a cross where Sakho (as a DF S) has got many a goal but I would like him to do it more often. He has the PM runs down the right, but I added "run wide with ball" in an effort to get him doing it more but that didn't really work. Also there isn't an option to get him to cross more so any ideas how to increase him doing this?

Also I am a bit flummoxed as to why Sakho gets on the end of his crosses but when I play Carroll in the Sakho role he never gets on the end of any of Valencia's crosses which is a shame because Carroll obviously has the aerial attributes. Other attributes oddly enough aren't far off Sakhos bizarrely having 14 for pace with Sakho only on 15. Acceleration is lower and off the ball is slightly lower so without a stand out stat I can't see why he isn't getting in there unless fitness plays a part?

[Cleon]

But there are few adjustments to make when it's tiki-taka in football and tiki-taka in FM, I guess. Or that way we could set Contain or Overload that it just wouldn't matter. :confused: If, by definition, tiki-taka is both defensive and offensive (imo it's more defensive in the sense that the team is suppose to defend with / having the ball) and if, by definition, Standard mentality in FM is both, I wondered that it would be appropriate using Standard. And then, with roles and duties, I can give the team a few inches more defensive or more offensive. Is this out of logic ?

I think philosophy is more important than the mentality for what you are asking. You have to remember that in the TC, most instructions like runs, pass risk etc are defined by the player's role/duty combination, not the team mentality. Which means the roles and duties along with philosophy will determine if players are involved in both attacking and defending in equal measure and not mentality. You should read this thread;

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/382854-The-Mentality-Ladder-A-Practical-Framework-for-Understanding-Fluidity-and-Duty?p=9379528&viewfull=1#post9379528

[Cleon]

Got another question. Enner Valencia is doing great for me as a CF A. Scores plenty and has a great assist record. His greatest threat is when he runs down the right and whips over a cross where Sakho (as a DF S) has got many a goal but I would like him to do it more often. He has the PM runs down the right, but I added "run wide with ball" in an effort to get him doing it more but that didn't really work. Also there isn't an option to get him to cross more so any ideas how to increase him doing this?

Also I am a bit flummoxed as to why Sakho gets on the end of his crosses but when I play Carroll in the Sakho role he never gets on the end of any of Valencia's crosses which is a shame because Carroll obviously has the aerial attributes. Other attributes oddly enough aren't far off Sakhos bizarrely having 14 for pace with Sakho only on 15. Acceleration is lower and off the ball is slightly lower so without a stand out stat I can't see why he isn't getting in there unless fitness plays a part?

Maybe its Sakho's acceleration which plays the part here and he's able to move into the dangerous areas a lot faster? He has quite a bit more acceleration than Carroll does which is what's used over short distances and pace is used over long distance. Sakho also has the better agility so he can turn his body much quicker and change direction easier if needed, where as Carroll is poor for this due to his agility been in the single figures.

[Sussex Hammer]

Maybe its Sakho's acceleration which plays the part here and he's able to move into the dangerous areas a lot faster? He has quite a bit more acceleration than Carroll does which is what's used over short distances and pace is used over long distance. Sakho also has the better agility so he can turn his body much quicker and change direction easier if needed, where as Carroll is poor for this due to his agility been in the single figures.

You are probably right Cleon. Had him down for agility training for a while as it was low. May train preferred move as "penalty box player" as I am playing FMC,. Would that be your suggestion or another training option?

[RTHerringbone]

You are probably right Cleon. Had him down for agility training for a while as it was low. May train preferred move as "penalty box player" as I am playing FMC,. Would that be your suggestion or another training option?

That PPM would probably limit the players' overall contribution in the long run, which might not be what you want? It isn't a PPM I have any experience of, but it just sounds like a means of converting another Role into a Poacher-esque Role.

[MrKeithSmooth]

Hmm, well my theorycrafting led me to create this;

GK/D

DL: CWB/A

DC: CD/D

DC: CD/D

DR: FB/A

DM: Anchor/D

MC: B2B/S

MC: CM/A

MR: WM/S

AML: R/A

FC: F9/S

Maybe it needs more creator types, though I was trying to see if I could make something that uses roles I don't tend to use often in midfield and maybe rely less on out and out playmakers.

Interesting that in that set up only the F9 and WM need vision, though I would argue I would need a midfield team that is competent at seeing and creating the passes for the Raumdeuter... I'll get round to experimenting on it though.

Oh and the Team setup is;

Counter / Flexible

Shorter Passing,

Pass into Space,

Push higher up,

Close down less.

Push higher is to compensate for the DM pushing the line back, the rest is the style I'm aiming for, a short passing game based around containment as opposed to rapid pressing.

I like this idea a lot, lots of runners. I hope you keep us updated.

[all4everdragon]

I think philosophy is more important than the mentality for what you are asking. You have to remember that in the TC, most instructions like runs, pass risk etc are defined by the player's role/duty combination, not the team mentality. Which means the roles and duties along with philosophy will determine if players are involved in both attacking and defending in equal measure and not mentality. You should read this thread;

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/382854-The-Mentality-Ladder-A-Practical-Framework-for-Understanding-Fluidity-and-Duty?p=9379528&viewfull=1#post9379528

Philosophy as in the current Team Shape ? That might be it because as far I've been able to understand Team Shape sets Mentality "packages". I was able to look into that link you share and now I understand better what you meant, I guess there are always some role and duty that fits the football we want to introduce in our team, no matter the strategy. Thanks

[Dr. Hook]

Philosophy as in the current Team Shape ? That might be it because as far I've been able to understand Team Shape sets Mentality "packages". I was able to look into that link you share and now I understand better what you meant, I guess there are always some role and duty that fits the football we want to introduce in our team, no matter the strategy. Thanks

Yes, it used to be called philosophy in pas versions and has been replaced by the term team shape. It is my hope down the line not too far that that whole construct will be ditched, and having a more or less fluid approach will be governed by roles, duties, TIs and PIs. Right now I see it as an unnecessary layer of complexity.