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Stupid Questions Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)

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If I load up three completely different shapes into my 3 selected tactics.. but select different mentalities for each one, say Counter, Attacking and Defensive.. if during games or even before games, changed the Counter mentality on the 4-4-2 shape to Attacking (to use that as an example).. would my side not find that familiar because it is a different shape? Or because they have 'learnt' that mentality in a different shape it would be fine??

Sorry if that doesnt make sense, would really appreciate a response.

It's fine-ish. Some settings are effected by mentality and shape, so it wouldn't be a perfect match, but it should be near enough and be a lot better than not training them at all, or limiting yourself to one tactical shape.

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No, but you should see more through balls in the latest update. Things to consider are what sort of playmaker he is - where is he positioned? - and whether the options in front are available. It's not just a case of working with the creator, you have to look at the targets too.

Thanks for the response.

Infront of my roaming playmaker I have a SS(A), an IF(S) and a RMD(A) and a Complete Forward (A). No other player instructions. Would these roles be optimal for that style of play?

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Thanks for the response.

Infront of my roaming playmaker I have a SS(A), an IF(S) and a RMD(A) and a Complete Forward (A). No other player instructions. Would these roles be optimal for that style of play?

There are a lot of mobile, attacking Roles there. When you attack and your playmaker has the ball, pause the match now and then to see where everyone in positioned.

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What does the 'pass into space' TI actually do? More risky passes? More direct? More forward runs?

I'd been using 'Exploit flank' for about a season before I learned that it was doing a whole bunch of counterproductive stuff I didn't ask for. I hate how vague these instructions are.

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What does the 'pass into space' TI actually do? More risky passes? More direct? More forward runs?

I'd been using 'Exploit flank' for about a season before I learned that it was doing a whole bunch of counterproductive stuff I didn't ask for. I hate how vague these instructions are.

It increases through balls.

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It increases through balls.

Are they risky or direct? Would this only apply to roles which can use the 'more risky/direct' options (I assume so)?

Are through balls just behind the opposition defence (which would need more runners attacking the area) or all over the pitch?

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Are they risky or direct? Would this only apply to roles which can use the 'more risky/direct' options (I assume so)?

Are through balls just behind the opposition defence (which would need more runners attacking the area) or all over the pitch?

They just pass the ball into space, rather than to feet and it isn't limited to any Role. By definition, they can be Risky, Direct and neither. Don't over think it - it is just a pass into space :)

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When playing 442 with the team set out like

GK

FB - CD - CD - FB

W - CM - BBM - W

TM - P

Would you have BBM behind TM or P? I notice TM/DLF (S) drop deep obviously into the space of the BBM so is it better for BBM to play behind the P (A) as he is higher up the field?

I usually have it like

FB (S) CD - CD - FB (A)

W (A) - BBM - CM (D) - W (S)

TM (S) P (A)

A S D S in dutys in midfield or S D S A ?

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They just pass the ball into space, rather than to feet and it isn't limited to any Role. By definition, they can be Risky, Direct and neither. Don't over think it - it is just a pass into space :)

Do my players not pass into spaces otherwise? There's no equivalent instruction anywhere else in the tactical system?

I'd better just leave it off. Already using too many instructions where I'm not sure if what they're doing is helping or not.

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When playing 442 with the team set out like

GK

FB - CD - CD - FB

W - CM - BBM - W

TM - P

Would you have BBM behind TM or P? I notice TM/DLF (S) drop deep obviously into the space of the BBM so is it better for BBM to play behind the P (A) as he is higher up the field?

One way creates a more balanced spread of players, the other could overload one corridor in the pitch. Both could be effective.

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One way creates a more balanced spread of players, the other could overload one corridor in the pitch. Both could be effective.

Yeah lately I've switched it to S D S A - so that when the TM/DLF drop deep only the CM (D) is behind them and the BBM is running into space vacated by the P/AF

Just wondering what everyone else does

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Do my players not pass into spaces otherwise? There's no equivalent instruction anywhere else in the tactical system?

I'd better just leave it off. Already using too many instructions where I'm not sure if what they're doing is helping or not.

They will play through passes still, the instruction just increases their frequency basically.

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I've not tested this tactic out, mainly because I want a little confirmation before I started out a full career with it. I'm a bit of a tactical noob (I once gave a pair of IFs the PI 'Stay Wider'), so I just wanted to know whether I've got the basics right and there's no glaring errors.

2014_12_15_00001.jpg

2014_12_15_00002.jpg

No OIs, no PIs.

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It isn't as simple as "do this set up to never concede at set pieces and always score" - it doesn't work like that. Consider how tall your team is, how good at marking, how many players you like to leave up-field. It is generally good practice to have a man on each post. I leave my quickest attacker/best dribbler up-field for a quick break. If you like man marking then get your taller players marking the opponents taller players. If you like zonal marking, then get your players to "go back" and "zonally mark 6 yard box". Or go for a mixture.

If your players are really poor at delivery then you could always play short to try and work a better position.

thanks for your answer

for defending corner, My player who good in the marking are 5 player. all 4 defender and 1 midfield. but only 2 central defender who are good in the air. my full backs and midfield are poor jumping ability..

and I just want left 1 up the field.

so thats made me in dillemas. do this means I should do zonal marking,since I only have 2 player who good both at marking and jumping?

about attacking corner, what to consider To put player for short corner? There are many option. like near post have 2 option, flick on or attack near post. both seems good. flick on let my other player to go for header, attack near post would let my player head directly to the goal. far post also have 2 option. either attack far post or stand on far post. while I need 1 player to chalenge keeper. since my player who good in the air is 3 or 4, I cant use those all 5 option..

share some tought please.thanks :)

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This is probably a really dumb question but i couldn't figure it out:

Does the match engine work in real time (a player has the ball and its decisions are calculated at that time) or is it scripted for each chunk of move? Is it a completely "free" engine or is it pre-established chunks of moves?

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Is there a way to create a support-duty striker that has something somewhere in between "More risky passes" and "Fewer risky passes"? Every single striker role is locked in to either one or the other, it seems.

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thanks for your answer

for defending corner, My player who good in the marking are 5 player. all 4 defender and 1 midfield. but only 2 central defender who are good in the air. my full backs and midfield are poor jumping ability..

and I just want left 1 up the field.

so thats made me in dillemas. do this means I should do zonal marking,since I only have 2 player who good both at marking and jumping?

about attacking corner, what to consider To put player for short corner? There are many option. like near post have 2 option, flick on or attack near post. both seems good. flick on let my other player to go for header, attack near post would let my player head directly to the goal. far post also have 2 option. either attack far post or stand on far post. while I need 1 player to chalenge keeper. since my player who good in the air is 3 or 4, I cant use those all 5 option..

share some tought please.thanks :)

Offensively, I tend to aim for whichever area I feel most comfortable, consider the angle created by an inswinger or outswinging corner. You don't need a tall player to challenge keeper - a shorter player could still put him off. You could mix up man and zonal defensively. Have your 2 best defenders aerially to mark their 2 biggest threats, get the rest in line zonally. Often beneficial to have a big player zonally marking 6 yard box to head clear most balls that come into area.

This is probably a really dumb question but i couldn't figure it out:

Does the match engine work in real time (a player has the ball and its decisions are calculated at that time) or is it scripted for each chunk of move? Is it a completely "free" engine or is it pre-established chunks of moves?

Player's make decisions as they go.

Is there a way to create a support-duty striker that has something somewhere in between "More risky passes" and "Fewer risky passes"? Every single striker role is locked in to either one or the other, it seems.

Layering over a team instruction could help. E.g. a TM will have fewer risky passes, but with a TI of pass into space will have a "mixed" instruction if you want to look at it that way.

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Can someone tell me the differences between the Box to Box midfielder and the Roaming Playmaker? I notice they move pretty similarly on field, is it just that the Roaming Playmaker is a playmaker role, thus players will look to pass to him ? I'm trying to replicate Man City and I'm not sure what Yaya Youre is. People will say that he is a RPM but I'm not so sure.

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The Roaming Playmaker has the inherent "attracting the ball" function, that the Box to Box Midfielder does not. The BBM is a touch more of a direct type of player, making energetic surges into the area and getting back defensively. A RP is energetic as well, but more of the constantly moving and involved in build up - he doesn't try and penetrate the final third in quite the same way. Fundamentally - the best bits of a BBM can happen off the ball, the best bits of a RP are on the ball. But the roles are fairly similar. There is a definite argument for both from Yaya Touré - he is a mix of both. Cesc Fabregas is more of a RP, trying to influence play on the ball from box to box than for example Aaron Ramsey who is more energetic player, making more moves off the ball like a Box to Box midfielder.

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The Roaming Playmaker has the inherent "attracting the ball" function, that the Box to Box Midfielder does not. The BBM is a touch more of a direct type of player, making energetic surges into the area and getting back defensively. A RP is energetic as well, but more of the constantly moving and involved in build up - he doesn't try and penetrate the final third in quite the same way. Fundamentally - the best bits of a BBM can happen off the ball, the best bits of a RP are on the ball. But the roles are fairly similar. There is a definite argument for both from Yaya Touré - he is a mix of both. Cesc Fabregas is more of a RP, trying to influence play on the ball from box to box than for example Aaron Ramsey who is more energetic player, making more moves off the ball like a Box to Box midfielder.

Thank you, that was very detailed. So I can definitely count more on the BBM to get in the box and maybe score some than on the RPM who will help more with the build up.

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Thank you, that was very detailed. So I can definitely count more on the BBM to get in the box and maybe score some than on the RPM who will help more with the build up.

Essentially yes. But to confuse things for you, I find on FM the RPM to be more of a goal threat due to him hanging back a little more or because he's more of a target than the BBM. So depending on the set up you might find a RPM has more goal-scoring opportunities.

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Player's make decisions as they go.

Thanks for the answer and sorry for being picky... but are you completely sure or the devs commented on this? I just like to know for sure, for it's going to make a big difference on my approach to the game.

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Thanks for the answer and sorry for being picky... but are you completely sure or the devs commented on this? I just like to know for sure, for it's going to make a big difference on my approach to the game.

I'm completely sure. Sometimes as moderators we can interact a fair amount with some of the developers which is nice, can give some good understanding as to how the match engine works etc. Basically players make decisions as they go, changes you make affect what happens. No scripting of any kind.

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Layering over a team instruction could help. E.g. a TM will have fewer risky passes, but with a TI of pass into space will have a "mixed" instruction if you want to look at it that way.

Thanks. That's unfortunate however. It seems that SI are "locking in" more and more instructions into roles, making it really hard to customize your own type of player instructions. There is no such thing as "like a TM, but more creative" or "like a CF but without trying to be as much a playmaker."

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Essentially yes. But to confuse things for you, I find on FM the RPM to be more of a goal threat due to him hanging back a little more or because he's more of a target than the BBM. So depending on the set up you might find a RPM has more goal-scoring opportunities.

I'm still in a dilemma with this. I used a RPM for half a season, and he was helping a lot with the build up but was nowhere near a goal threat for me. I realized that in my 442, I want a goal threat and I will see if the BBM is better suited for that. One difference I noticed was that at times during offensive transition, the RPM wants the ball and looks for it in order to create, and the BBM will often exploit space further up the pitch, or even get in the box at times. For instance when my Wide Playmaker had the ball, the RPM would go to the right of him and ask for the ball. The BBM will go forward and look for the ball. Or at least thats how I saw it

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What's the nearest striker role to Target man - Attack (pushes up on the last defender but stays completely central, no drifting wide into channels or dribbling loads) but without the whole target man thing.

The team doesn't go overboard on the long passes with it, but it's still far more wasteful than I'd like playing out from the back, crossing positions etc. when my centre forward is just under 6' tall.

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I'm still in a dilemma with this. I used a RPM for half a season, and he was helping a lot with the build up but was nowhere near a goal threat for me. I realized that in my 442, I want a goal threat and I will see if the BBM is better suited for that. One difference I noticed was that at times during offensive transition, the RPM wants the ball and looks for it in order to create, and the BBM will often exploit space further up the pitch, or even get in the box at times. For instance when my Wide Playmaker had the ball, the RPM would go to the right of him and ask for the ball. The BBM will go forward and look for the ball. Or at least thats how I saw it

BBM has never been adventurous enough for me. I don't want box to box I want box to six-yard box.

CM-A is the close-range goal-threat role.

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Hi all. Looking for some advice on playing lower leagues in Scotland. Now in my head I would love my team (Elgin) to play nice short passing possession football but am I right in thinking I wont have the players good enough or pitch quality to do that? Therefore am I stuck to playing direct football and maybe building a team round pace and strength? Basically what im asking is can lower league teams play good passing football or just direct? Please help as really struggling to get round the game engine.

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BBM has never been adventurous enough for me. I don't want box to box I want box to six-yard box.

CM-A is the close-range goal-threat role.

Yes but he doesn't cover defensively as well as a BBM or RPM and I need that in a 442.

Hi all. Looking for some advice on playing lower leagues in Scotland. Now in my head I would love my team (Elgin) to play nice short passing possession football but am I right in thinking I wont have the players good enough or pitch quality to do that? Therefore am I stuck to playing direct football and maybe building a team round pace and strength? Basically what im asking is can lower league teams play good passing football or just direct? Please help as really struggling to get round the game engine.

It is possible but you need ok players for it. I almost always have possession in my games, had one where I had 70% at half time and I use a shape that isn't that suited for possesion imo ( 442) . But definitely possible

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It is possible but you need ok players for it. I almost always have possession in my games, had one where I had 70% at half time and I use a shape that isn't that suited for possesion imo ( 442) . But definitely possible[/

Thanks. Passing and tech ability are poor in the team. I thought if I play short passing it would be easier for them to find each other rather than trying direct passes up the field. In every save I try I struggle to keep possession and end up being dominated by every team even supposed weaker teams. I will try and get some screen shots of my tactics and see if its the way I have set up my players. is it ok to post screen shots in this thread? I chose Elgin as I thought they have low expectations therefore give me more time to sort my tactics out.

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It is possible but you need ok players for it. I almost always have possession in my games, had one where I had 70% at half time and I use a shape that isn't that suited for possesion imo ( 442) . But definitely possible[/

Thanks. Passing and tech ability are poor in the team. I thought if I play short passing it would be easier for them to find each other rather than trying direct passes up the field. In every save I try I struggle to keep possession and end up being dominated by every team even supposed weaker teams. I will try and get some screen shots of my tactics and see if its the way I have set up my players. is it ok to post screen shots in this thread? I chose Elgin as I thought they have low expectations therefore give me more time to sort my tactics out.

I'd recommend creating your own thread for that. Also read the sticky threads, they all help a lot !

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I'd recommend creating your own thread for that. Also read the sticky threads, they all help a lot !

Ok Thanks. I have read a few of Cleons posts and tried to follow them in setting up my team but I must be doing something wrong as I loose most of my games. Think I need to learn how to spot things during a game and know when to make changes in game. Thanks for the advice I will start a thread of my own with some screen shots.

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Offensively, I tend to aim for whichever area I feel most comfortable, consider the angle created by an inswinger or outswinging corner. You don't need a tall player to challenge keeper - a shorter player could still put him off. You could mix up man and zonal defensively. Have your 2 best defenders aerially to mark their 2 biggest threats, get the rest in line zonally. Often beneficial to have a big player zonally marking 6 yard box to head clear most balls that come into area.

Player's make decisions as they go.

Layering over a team instruction could help. E.g. a TM will have fewer risky passes, but with a TI of pass into space will have a "mixed" instruction if you want to look at it that way.

thanks for your suggestion. for attacking corner, what do you think. whe the best we ask near post player to flick on the ball or attack directly?

And whats the benefit of each option, stand onfar post, and attack far post?

thanks.

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What's the nearest striker role to Target man - Attack (pushes up on the last defender but stays completely central, no drifting wide into channels or dribbling loads) but without the whole target man thing.

The team doesn't go overboard on the long passes with it, but it's still far more wasteful than I'd like playing out from the back, crossing positions etc. when my centre forward is just under 6' tall.

I'm not 100% on this, but maybe DLF-A? He will hold up the ball though. I'm even less sure about this because I haven't used the role much, but maybe even a Poacher, since he won't move around much, but stay high?

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I'm not 100% on this, but maybe DLF-A? He will hold up the ball though. I'm even less sure about this because I haven't used the role much, but maybe even a Poacher, since he won't move around much, but stay high?

Do poachers drift wide into channels? My players don't fit the poacher archetype I have in my head but it could be worth a try.

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Whats the deal with strikers taking corners? I've seen a couple of people who said they must take them for the tactic to work which makes no sense to me

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Whats the deal with strikers taking corners? I've seen a couple of people who said they must take them for the tactic to work which makes no sense to me

I believe it was a red herring. Mr Uwe Rosler mentioned it, and as a popular tactic uploader, the rumour spirals.

In the Bugs Forum he posted a thread implying that a corner exploit existed, but it subsequently transpired that it was effective but didn't qualify as an exploit.

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http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/536257194342608210/B6564EC3335135A6BC5757DE9F7032C2E9EF4AAB/

Why my fullbacks are so deep ? I play offside trap. Is it OK or they should be higher than center backs ? I play on very fluid,attacking strategy and the fullbacks has Wing Back role with attack duty (no instructions)

That looks very odd. Full backs in FM terms are usually only deeper than the DCs for certain goalkeeper distribution types, but that doesn't happen often enough to affect their average position like that.

If you have no PIs applied (no specific man marking?) then it looks like a bug with that average position image.

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Whats the deal with strikers taking corners? I've seen a couple of people who said they must take them for the tactic to work which makes no sense to me

There are certain positions players can take up on corners that only seem to be accessible by selecting 'Default' on particular role e.g. my MR set to default stands about halfway between a short option and a near post defender, which I like, but I can't give that duty to any other player, and if he takes the corner I'm forced to go without.

I assume the people trying to find effective corner routines have decided the default positions of strikers are less effective than others.

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That looks very odd. Full backs in FM terms are usually only deeper than the DCs for certain goalkeeper distribution types, but that doesn't happen often enough to affect their average position like that.

If you have no PIs applied (no specific man marking?) then it looks like a bug with that average position image.

Non-stop attacking corners and free kicks.

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Non-stop attacking corners and free kicks.

Yep. You'll see this if one team has a lot of corners.

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Yep. You'll see this if one team has a lot of corners.

That makes sense.

Would be good if the original poster could confirm how many corners his team had in that match, and the attacking corner settings of his back four.

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Hi guys, just looking for a bit of advice, which I am sure has been covered many times, so apologies for asking once more. How do you keep players match fit? I find the fixture congestion in the SPL and Europe night on impossible and don't have a big squad to rotate. If I am honest I leave my assistant to deal with the training as I don't have a clue. Is it worth getting in a good fitness coach and setting something up?

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Is it beneficial to increase match prep before a big game? I've lost two champ league finals in a row and I'm looking for ways to improve how my team hanldles big games/cup finals etc.

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Is it beneficial to increase match prep before a big game? I've lost two champ league finals in a row and I'm looking for ways to improve how my team hanldles big games/cup finals etc.

Match prep only gives a very slight boost for the next game. If you are having issues with the big games then I'd focus more on your approach as no amount of match training will make you better in big games or finals.

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Hi guys, just looking for a bit of advice, which I am sure has been covered many times, so apologies for asking once more. How do you keep players match fit? I find the fixture congestion in the SPL and Europe night on impossible and don't have a big squad to rotate. If I am honest I leave my assistant to deal with the training as I don't have a clue. Is it worth getting in a good fitness coach and setting something up?

First, you should look at your style of play. If you're playing a direct, high tempo style, especially if that's combined with a lot of pressing, your players are more likely to get worn out, so you need to moderate that by slowing the game down more often and perhaps use more patient tactics for certain fixtures.

You might also want to lower training intensity and introduce more rest days when you're entering a busy period.

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First, you should look at your style of play. If you're playing a direct, high tempo style, especially if that's combined with a lot of pressing, your players are more likely to get worn out, so you need to moderate that by slowing the game down more often and perhaps use more patient tactics for certain fixtures.

You might also want to lower training intensity and introduce more rest days when you're entering a busy period.

Thanks for the advice, I probably could do with slowing the game down more often especially in league games when I am a few goals up. Will also look into rest days during congestion. Thanks again.

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