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Stupid Questions Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)

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8 hours ago, whoopy said:

Is it better to train players on a role that covers more attributes than focusing fewer ones.I mean, I always set my strikers training as "Complete Forward" role so that he develops all those attributes even thouh I use him as "Advanced Forward" in my tactic.I always do this to all my players(Goalkeepers are set to Sweeper Keeper,Midfielders are set to BBM,Forwards are set to CF etc.).Some disagree with this and the less attributes players are focused the more becomes his development quicker.So, what are your opinions about this ?

If that works for you, you find your players develop well and according to how you want them to develop then carry on doing it.

The name of the role that you select for training is irrelevant - it's the attributes that are trained that's the important thing.

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11 hours ago, herne79 said:

I always get a little confused as what this actually is and what people mean by that.

If you mean your tactical system doesn't seem quite so effective as it did first season, that can be (generalisation incoming) to do with your relative success.  The AI is quite capable (it's actually pretty good at it) of adjusting how it plays against you depending on your performance, so if you perform well the AI might tighten up against you for example, or vice versa.

This can happen at any time - from AI changes during individual matches through to changes season on season.

If you notice this sort of thing happening it becomes a case of how you in turn start to adapt.  And that's the million dollar question.  Unfortunately there's no magic win button - sometimes a small change to mentality is all it takes.  Or changing a role.  Or Team Shape.  Or Team Instructions.  Or all/none/some of the above.  And different matches can need different types of change.  It really comes down to experimentation, although mentality can be a decent starting point.

Is the AI reacting specifically to my tactics, or is it a general "that team is performing really well, I'll go more defensive to combat it" type approach?

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7 minutes ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

Is the AI reacting specifically to my tactics, or is it a general "that team is performing really well, I'll go more defensive to combat it" type approach?

It doesn't react specifically to your tactics, its more generic.

As you've said if the AI team are favourites to win they'll play more open & attacking, if they aren't they'll go more defensive.

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I find playing on the control mentality just makes play too aggressive with players starting positions too high, too many forward passes, too much urgency etc etc, this is a daft question is anybody actually achieving success with the control mentality?

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13 hours ago, Cougar2010 said:

It doesn't react specifically to your tactics, its more generic.

As you've said if the AI team are favourites to win they'll play more open & attacking, if they aren't they'll go more defensive.

Any guides you or anyone can recommend to playing against teams who treat you as the favourite? Literally every career game I play I end up having to give up after the second season because this just destroys it and I'm a bit stumped as to what I'm meant to do.

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

Any guides you or anyone can recommend to playing against teams who treat you as the favourite? Literally every career game I play I end up having to give up after the second season because this just destroys it and I'm a bit stumped as to what I'm meant to do.

I usually work it out myself so don't tend to read many of the threads personally, maybe someone else can recommend some but in general anything by Cleon or Rashidi is normally good.

My advice though if you are the favourites and facing a lot of defences teams I would be looking to play a more possession based game.  Generally start with a lower mentality like defensive and then maybe change a couple of the team instructions so its a little more aggressive but still lower risk.  In terms of roles/duties you also need players moving between the lines to drag the defence out of shape and create space.

Best thing to do is start a thread, include a pic of a tactic you've made which shows shape/roles/duties/instructions and explain what you are trying to do with it.

You also need realistic expectations as well which means you will drop points in around 20%-30% of matches that you dominate.

 

EDIT

Any of the threads linked in this thread are a good start: https://community.sigames.com/topic/373937-tactic-building-and-training-guides-start-here/

Llama's pairs & combinations might be a good read if its the creating space and getting players moving between the lines that you think might be an issue.

 

EDIT 2

Watching is often easier than reading so this is Rashidi's you tube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWUCWx5HNWSuzwGxwVczGPQ/featured

Edited by Cougar2010

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Cheers :thup:

Quote

You also need realistic expectations as well which means you will drop points in around 20%-30% of matches that you dominate.

Yeah I don't mind that, it's the death spirals that I'm going into where the club just self destructs that I want to stop :D 

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3 minutes ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

Cheers :thup:

Yeah I don't mind that, it's the death spirals that I'm going into where the club just self destructs that I want to stop :D 

Ah that might not be tactical, could be more man management.

Bad runs are going to happen, your job is to extend the good runs & minimise the bad ones.

Generally this means you have to control things like complacency by keeping the players focused so they don't get over confident.

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Just now, Coulthard's Jaw said:

Hmmm that would actually be a better reason because I really feel my tactics are pretty sensible.

Main things I would mention which you may or may not already know are:

A) Your starting point is the post match team talk for the match you last played.  Every team talk/media comment between ending one match & kicking off the next counts.

B) Green on team talks isn't always good & red isn't always bad, it needs context.

If in doubt get an AM who has high level of motivating/man management and take note of what he recommends in different situations.  He won't always get it right but normally they are pretty good.

I generally work on something like:

high morale but poor performance = shout at them.

low morale + poor performance = encourage/unlucky.

high morale + good performance = try not to over praise, warn against complacency.

low morale + good performance = praise.

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On March 29, 2017 at 17:28, Fosse said:

I find playing on the control mentality just makes play too aggressive with players starting positions too high, too many forward passes, too much urgency etc etc, this is a daft question is anybody actually achieving success with the control mentality?

I'm 2 seasons into a save and I've found success playing a control mentality with either a flexible or fluid team shape. I mostly use a 4231, and found that shouts and player instructions seem to manage the riskiness of the control mentality. My usual shouts are shorter passing, work ball into box, dribble less, fairly narrow width, and a normal defensive line... Running the shape on fluid seems to keep things more compact. A lot of it depends on the team I'm playing against, but I don't assign more than two attack duties, usually my CAM and one of the wingers. Any more than that and I found myself getting burned on transitions. 

Limiting attack duties and shorter passing works for me when playing with control, just my own experience for what it's worth.

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I want to retrain some players in different positions. I remember back in fm14 or 15 i could just play a player in that position and he would become "accomplished" in it after a while, even without new position training. Does this still apply to fm17 or is new position training necessary now (i think that's how it was in fm16?)? Also, does new position training increase training workload?

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How to blend high pressing & possesion and counterattacks? 

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Dunno where to ask this.

Do staff star ratings matter? Like for example a HOYD as an Assistant Manager, the star rating drops. Or should I only go by their attributes and not worry about the star ratings?

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I've just joined a new team and can see that my first choice goalkeeper is already tutoring my third choice goalkeeper. Tutoring lasts 180 days doesn't it? Is there any way that I can see when the tutoring started and therefore work out when it is due to end?

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On Sonntag, 2. April 2017 at 17:28, Gee_Simpson said:

Dunno where to ask this.

Do staff star ratings matter? Like for example a HOYD as an Assistant Manager, the star rating drops. Or should I only go by their attributes and not worry about the star ratings?

If they have good attributes for the job but low star rating it means that they haven't adapted to that staff role so try to get staff with high adaptability.

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1 hour ago, hxp said:

If they have good attributes for the job but low star rating it means that they haven't adapted to that staff role so try to get staff with high adaptability.

Thanks. Does the star rating matter though if they have the right attributes? I haven't played FM since FM13 so I'm not sure about these suitability ratings.

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1 hour ago, Gee_Simpson said:

Thanks. Does the star rating matter though if they have the right attributes? I haven't played FM since FM13 so I'm not sure about these suitability ratings.

It should matter but with FM you never know since it's so undocumented. It probably scales down the attributes according to his job familiarity so that's why you get the low star rating and it should scale the attributes back up the more he adapts to that job, resulting in higher star rating.

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Posted (edited)

Is it a disadvantage to loan out a player to an non-activated league ?( e.g. to make someone eu citizen to gain workpermit for England- by sending him spain)( I unlocked everyplayer in the world with large database and including around 310.000 player)

Edited by whoopy

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I'm going to try something which is a bit new for me but purposely set up a team with a heavy emphasis on short passing, possession and good movement. I'm going to do this with an MLS team on FM Touch.

I'm not sure what approach I'd need to take, I presume fluid or very fluid, in order to keep the team moving together in order to keep passing options open. I have read though that rigid is usually better with more specialist player roles so a little confused.

I've not yet created the game or considered role, formation yet.

Any advice on this or relevant pointers would be much appreciated!

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4 hours ago, Colorado said:

I'm going to try something which is a bit new for me but purposely set up a team with a heavy emphasis on short passing, possession and good movement. I'm going to do this with an MLS team on FM Touch.

I'm not sure what approach I'd need to take, I presume fluid or very fluid, in order to keep the team moving together in order to keep passing options open. I have read though that rigid is usually better with more specialist player roles so a little confused.

I've not yet created the game or considered role, formation yet.

Any advice on this or relevant pointers would be much appreciated!

I'm no expert but I imagine you're on the right track there with your thinking. Fluid or Very Fluid compresses your team together so they will naturally be closer and more available for a short pass.

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9 hours ago, Colorado said:

I'm going to try something which is a bit new for me but purposely set up a team with a heavy emphasis on short passing, possession and good movement. I'm going to do this with an MLS team on FM Touch.

I'm not sure what approach I'd need to take, I presume fluid or very fluid, in order to keep the team moving together in order to keep passing options open. I have read though that rigid is usually better with more specialist player roles so a little confused.

I've not yet created the game or considered role, formation yet.

Any advice on this or relevant pointers would be much appreciated!

Check the pinned thread at the top of the forum.  There is a link there to tactical guides, one of which is about possession football with good movement.

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This may not be posted in the right place as it inst tactical, but it is a stupid question i think (and didn't want to start a new thread for it).

My star centre back from last season Semi Ajayi requested a transfer at the start of the season if a bigger club came in... Well they came in but with shocking offers so we never came to a deal.
A manager from a club who are interested him has started turning up at our games and watching him... on all three occasions, he has 'looked very nervous'... never happened once last season and we have started life in League 1 very well, and he is the only player like it... both at half time and full time and no matter what I say it doesn't help.

So... my question, is he nervous because he knows another potential club's manager is watching him? Or is it a coincidence? Never seen it before in previous FM's...

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6 hours ago, LCFCEaves31 said:

This may not be posted in the right place as it inst tactical, but it is a stupid question i think (and didn't want to start a new thread for it).

My star centre back from last season Semi Ajayi requested a transfer at the start of the season if a bigger club came in... Well they came in but with shocking offers so we never came to a deal.
A manager from a club who are interested him has started turning up at our games and watching him... on all three occasions, he has 'looked very nervous'... never happened once last season and we have started life in League 1 very well, and he is the only player like it... both at half time and full time and no matter what I say it doesn't help.

So... my question, is he nervous because he knows another potential club's manager is watching him? Or is it a coincidence? Never seen it before in previous FM's...

Does he have anything listed in his profile like "feels pressured by the interest in him"?  But yes, what you say is quite possible and it is related to the player personality and probably hidden traits at work.

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1 hour ago, Pivot said:

How to get fast transition from defense to attack?

No expert but I would suggest you need player roles on support or attack duty to get them looking to play upfield, high tempo and try through balls. Perhaps playing direct and a target man who you constantly aim for might work for you. 

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4 hours ago, Dr. Hook said:

Does he have anything listed in his profile like "feels pressured by the interest in him"?  But yes, what you say is quite possible and it is related to the player personality and probably hidden traits at work.

Cannot see anything, other than just wants to leave to player in a higher division...

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42 minutes ago, Pivot said:

How to get fast transition from defense to attack?

Mentality.

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59 minutes ago, RTHerringbone said:

Mentality.

You mean attacking mentality?

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Posted (edited)

So, I have an 'issue' with my tactic in that my team is taking an obscene amount of long shots. Now, I don't know if it's to do with the ME or if it is purely my tactics but I'd say I average around 15-20 long shots a game. 

Like a muppet, I've completely forgotten how to insert images to the forum, so for now I link you to the imgur page right here

As you can see, I had 36 shots, with only 9 on target which is a measly 25% SOT. 19 long shots (52.7%) & 8 (22.2%) blocked which makes up the rest. I didn't create a single clear cut chance in the game.

Now, to give this context - It's December 2022 & I'm a fairly dominant Liverpool side. Last season I finished 2nd in the league & I won the Champions League for the second time with this Liverpool team. In the past month alone, I've beaten Juventus 5-1 & Arsenal 4-1 so scoring isn't a problem but I don't seem to be creating high percentage chances. 

My question is: other than give my attacking players a PI of 'shoot less', what can I do to decrease the amount of long shots being taken? Especially when I already have the TI of 'work ball into box'. 

Side Note: None of my players have the pesky 'shoots from range' ppm. 

 

 

 

Edited by retrodude09

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On 3/29/2017 at 09:07, herne79 said:

If that works for you, you find your players develop well and according to how you want them to develop then carry on doing it.

The name of the role that you select for training is irrelevant - it's the attributes that are trained that's the important thing.

I was just wondering about yesterday. Still a though decision to make to experiment with a youngster you want to make sure because a star player.

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17 hours ago, LCFCEaves31 said:

Cannot see anything, other than just wants to leave to player in a higher division...

It sounds like the presence of the coach/scout is causing it, but that his pressure rating is probably not low enough to generate other messages- how cool, to be honest :D

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On 29/03/2017 at 23:28, Fosse said:

I find playing on the control mentality just makes play too aggressive with players starting positions too high, too many forward passes, too much urgency etc etc, this is a daft question is anybody actually achieving success with the control mentality?

I've achieved great success with control at Sporting. I think the key is lowering the tempo a bit if you're looking for more of a possession-based game. Many a time I've watched my players keep their patience on the edge of the opponents 18-yard-box; knocking it about to try and open up gaps. 

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What are downsides of always having "use the offside trap" turned on? What are upsides of turning it off?

Why would we ever want to not try to catch the opposition offside?

 

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7 minutes ago, jjtile said:

What are downsides of always having "use the offside trap" turned on? What are upsides of turning it off?

Why would we ever want to not try to catch the opposition offside?

 

I do not use it in the lower leagues... I don't trust my players intelligence (not sure if that has any correlation or not to perfecting offside but it made sense in my head).
If my defenders step up and time it wrong, it allows the in opposition in at goal. Lower league players aren't always the quickest at recovering the situation either, with low pace and acceleration... I however, may be entirely wrong!
I am sure with quality, quick and intelligent defenders it is a no brainer though.

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3 hours ago, Dr. Hook said:

It sounds like the presence of the coach/scout is causing it, but that his pressure rating is probably not low enough to generate other messages- how cool, to be honest :D

If they have put in purposely... well played, very clever. It's upset me, but it's realistic, so cannot complain!

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3 minutes ago, LCFCEaves31 said:

I do not use it in the lower leagues... I don't trust my players intelligence (not sure if that has any correlation or not to perfecting offside but it made sense in my head).
If my defenders step up and time it wrong, it allows the in opposition in at goal. Lower league players aren't always the quickest at recovering the situation either, with low pace and acceleration... I however, may be entirely wrong!
I am sure with quality, quick and intelligent defenders it is a no brainer though.

This was my guess too - but I wanted to check if it's as simple as: "There's no downside if your players are good enough. Always turn it on unless you have slow/mentally weak defenders"

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15 hours ago, retrodude09 said:

So, I have an 'issue' with my tactic in that my team is taking an obscene amount of long shots. Now, I don't know if it's to do with the ME or if it is purely my tactics but I'd say I average around 15-20 long shots a game. 

Like a muppet, I've completely forgotten how to insert images to the forum, so for now I link you to the imgur page right here

As you can see, I had 36 shots, with only 9 on target which is a measly 25% SOT. 19 long shots (52.7%) & 8 (22.2%) blocked which makes up the rest. I didn't create a single clear cut chance in the game.

Now, to give this context - It's December 2022 & I'm a fairly dominant Liverpool side. Last season I finished 2nd in the league & I won the Champions League for the second time with this Liverpool team. In the past month alone, I've beaten Juventus 5-1 & Arsenal 4-1 so scoring isn't a problem but I don't seem to be creating high percentage chances. 

My question is: other than give my attacking players a PI of 'shoot less', what can I do to decrease the amount of long shots being taken? Especially when I already have the TI of 'work ball into box'. 

Side Note: None of my players have the pesky 'shoots from range' ppm. 

 

 

 

Help anyone? 

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8 hours ago, jjtile said:

This was my guess too - but I wanted to check if it's as simple as: "There's no downside if your players are good enough. Always turn it on unless you have slow/mentally weak defenders"

There is no harm in using it. I wouldn't use it with a deep d-line though, only a high or moderate one.

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4 hours ago, retrodude09 said:

Help anyone? 

How many of those long shots are from free kicks? And do you notice your players just dribbling and then taking a shot?

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2 hours ago, Gee_Simpson said:

There is no harm in using it. I wouldn't use it with a deep d-line though, only a high or moderate one.

What is the reason you wouldn't use it with a deep d-line? Too little time for defence too correct a failed offsidetrap?

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38 minutes ago, vasilli07 said:

How many of those long shots are from free kicks? And do you notice your players just dribbling and then taking a shot?

I would say 5 or 6 probably. 

Yes, I would say they dribble & take the shot rather than maybe look for a pass.

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I'm 7 years into my Man United save with 18 scouts who are travelling the world and yet my scouting knowledge is only at 40%.How on earth do I get it to 60-70%(if it's possible to get it that high)?

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9 minutes ago, retrodude09 said:

I would say 5 or 6 probably. 

Yes, I would say they dribble & take the shot rather than maybe look for a pass.

You can consider changing 1-2 player roles(you have 4 players who dribble more now) that doesn't have dribble more. The DLF could be a good replacement for the CF, add in roam from position and you will get a similar CF role without run with ball. Or you can use the dribble less TI which encourages a pass 1st mentality.

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What's the likelihood of a player ever learning a PPM that a coach says they can't see being successful? I want one of my young attacking midfield prospects to learn to play more one-twos but every single coach (starting with the more obvious ones first of course i.e attacking and technique based coaches) says the same thing, they don't think it will be successful and recommend he learns to play more killer balls instead. Now this player I intend to use as a shadow striker not a playmaker so I don't want to use their suggestion, however I've ignored their advice twice now and twice the player has been unsuccessful in learning the one-two trait.

Is he ever going to succeed or has it been determined already that he'll never be able to learn it? Would better coaches make a difference?

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26 minutes ago, Weezer said:

What's the likelihood of a player ever learning a PPM that a coach says they can't see being successful? I want one of my young attacking midfield prospects to learn to play more one-twos but every single coach (starting with the more obvious ones first of course i.e attacking and technique based coaches) says the same thing, they don't think it will be successful and recommend he learns to play more killer balls instead. Now this player I intend to use as a shadow striker not a playmaker so I don't want to use their suggestion, however I've ignored their advice twice now and twice the player has been unsuccessful in learning the one-two trait.

Is he ever going to succeed or has it been determined already that he'll never be able to learn it? Would better coaches make a difference?

i think it depends on the ability of the coach as well as the player himself. This has happened to me many time and i find it best just to ignore the coach's advice and press ahead with the training anyway. Sometimes they learn the move the coach said they wouldn't, sometimes they don't. Each case is different

 

 

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14 hours ago, VV Bal op de Lat said:

What is the reason you wouldn't use it with a deep d-line? Too little time for defence too correct a failed offsidetrap?

An offside trap is used to compress the space the other team plays in. Using a deeper defensive line means standing off your opponents, which will give them time and space on the ball to pick out a pass. It also means that the opposing striker will probably have a running start on your defender, which makes him harder to catch. And as you mention it does indeed make it more difficult for your defenders to catch him if he breaks the offside trap. 

 

Your D-line and pressing should always be aligned, that's to say that a high defensive line should be coupled with higher pressing (no need to do this manually, you'll see the tactics creator automatically adjusts). Otherwise your opponents will be able to knock accurate balls in behind. Likewise, when using a deeper line a team should stand off a little more to avoid conceding too much space between the lines. 

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Posted (edited)

When looking for Registas or Roaming Playmakers in DM position, i believe it's vital to have good positioning and off the ball? Positioning its pretty clear they need, and off the ball because both roles use roam.

Edited by mikcheck

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Which midfield trio would you recomend to 4-2-3-1? (Control mentality, normal tempo, short passes, high defensive line) + Complete Striker

DLP (S) - CM (S) - AP (A) 

DLP (S) - CM (D) - AP (S) 

BBM - DLP(D) - AP (A)

DLP (S) - CM(D) - OM (A)

BBM - DLP (D) -OM (A)

BBM - DLP (S) - AP (A)

BBM - DLP (S) - OM (A)

 

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Any suggestions on what I can do in FMT to stop this player ruining great goal scoring opportunities like this?  Pace of 18 and yet Tim Cahill with pace of 12 catches him possibly due to Hahn's rather low dribbling stat of 11.  Extremely frustrating, especially when watching Costa at the other end dribbling for fun despite himself having a low dribbling stat!!  I don't doubt that having lowish composure and first touch helped much either.  Obviously a chance like this you need to run with the ball so is it just a case of putting him on dribbling training or is a role change called for?  He is down as a CF S and has done very well but obviously a CF S has hard coded "dribble more".  One doubts whether as say a DLF he would have been in a position to run on to it anyway and the other striker is a DLF so don't want to have two.  Maybe a Defensive Forward as you can dribble less but the situation requires dribbling so is dribbling training all I can do?

Before anyone says buy another striker it was my only affordable option with my other strikers out injured for three months!!

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