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Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)


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How the hell does one deal with the 4231 Denmark? It's just silly, really. The front 4 and midfield puts my defence under insane pressure and I simply cannot build from the back. CBs and FBs alike keep punting the ball forward aimlessly, or even worse clearing it towards the sidelines. I have defenders with great composure and generally good passing and vision and yet they just hoof it aimlessly... I've tried playing a shorter game, I've tried going more direct, but it's the same every time. It doesn't help that the GK distribution is generally horrendous on the game.

Also, the front 4 is insane in possession as well. They keep making brilliant runs all game long totally bamboozling and bypassing my defenders. I have found AMR/Ls are simply impossible to mark effectively. I tried doubling up on them by using WMs on specific marking, I've tried cutting out the supply, but then the AMC will run riot instead.

I could try playing deep, putting everyone behind the ball, essentially parking the bus and hope for the best... But that's just asking for a 90th minute lucky corner goal really...

I'm really out of ideas at the moment.

What formation and roles are you using? By the sounds of it, you need one of your midfielders to come deep and offer a passing option to take some of the pressure off your backline. A Half-back will drop in between the two CBs when your team has possession which I think would help, but a regista or a DLP would probably work too

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What should I look for when deciding how many weeks to have in the pre season? The only downside I can think of about having the maximum time possible is the risk of injuries in training.

If you want to use pre-season to get Tactic Familiarity up, then just allow yourself enough time to squeeze in the friendlies necessary to do that.

Read this:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/375145-The-Santos-Project-Tactical-and-Player-Development?p=9225115&viewfull=1#post9225115

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I just have a quick question about a certain tactical aspect, I'm wondering whether it is possible to make a winger, in a flat 4-4-2, the target man of the team? I ask because in last year's games I had a lot of success at Spurs with Bale in the left midfield position, in a flat 4-4-2, set as target man with supply pass to feet. With the ball at his feet he would just run, and run, and run, causing the opposition problems.

Not exactly. The closest you can do to this is either use an Advanced Playmaker at AML/R )i.e. not a Winger, so probably too much of a compromise!), or Exploit The X Flank in order to direct play towards a certain player.

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You mention a few changes that you've made, but what is your core set up?

I've tried using a 4-1-4-1 and a 4-4-1-1 most recently.

The problem with the latter is that it has no DMC and the opposition AM will simply run riot. The former is somewhat better but only if my sole intention is killing the oppo's game. But that's a very dangerous tactic, inviting pressure all game long whilst not attempting to play any meaningful football on my part. I'd prefer not to resort to that.

Either way, FBs are completely useless for me in defense (they can't track runs or mark someone to save their lives, and concede corners relentlessly) and will need extra protection from the WMs. Unless I assign my WMs to specifically man mark the oppo AML/Rs, I'm going to get beaten badly.

Should I try going with a back 3 or 5 with wingbacks or something of the sort?

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The former is somewhat better but only if my sole intention is killing the oppo's game. But that's a very dangerous tactic, inviting pressure all game long whilst not attempting to play any meaningful football on my part. I'd prefer not to resort to that.

I don't agree with this at all.

In my view, you can make any formation very attacking, very defensive or very neutral.

A 4-1-4-1 on paper might appear defensive, but actually it can be very aggressive and far from inviting pressure, it can dictate a match.

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I don't agree with this at all.

In my view, you can make any formation very attacking, very defensive or very neutral.

A 4-1-4-1 on paper might appear defensive, but actually it can be very aggressive and far from inviting pressure, it can dictate a match.

I agree with this :thup:

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I've been playing a new career recently on FM12, I know its a bit old but wasn't doing well on FM14 so wasn't enjoying it so decided to go back to FM12 as I had a lot of success on that.

Anyway, I'm doing Juventus, I'm in the first season, we've had an up and down season, currently 5th in the league with a chance of getting top 3 still to get Champions League, we are also in the semi finals of the Italian Cup (and won the first leg 2-0 at home to AC Milan), so overall we are not doing too bad, I've noticed in a lot of games we dominate possession, but create few chances and end up drawing 0-0, I've read the 12-steps guide on the forum and one thing I think might have been my downfall was I am playing a 4-5-1 formation, the striker has been playing as an AF/A, so he is probably getting isolated during games, would this be why I am drawing lots of games 0-0 and creating few chances or could it be something else?

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I don't agree with this at all.

In my view, you can make any formation very attacking, very defensive or very neutral.

A 4-1-4-1 on paper might appear defensive, but actually it can be very aggressive and far from inviting pressure, it can dictate a match.

Absolutely. But if I set it up in any other way than park-the-bus mode, I'll be beaten silly by the AI's 4231 Denmark. I've used the 4-1-4-1 to great effect in terms of attacking, possession play and domination, just simply not against the 4231. Unless I set up to do nothing but negate the oppo's play, I'll be picked apart by the 4231 Denmark. That's what I was trying to say, sorry if it wasn't quite clear.

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As I delet another save, I'm just thinking, what aproach sould I have playing fm 14? Should I give a go at creating my onw tactics (I always do, but this year only one of them worked) Should I use other people's tactics? Start with a big team/small team? Play offensive football, counter, defensive? Is there a easy way into this game? Something that makes you know what the AI is doing maybe? I've to admit that it's humiliating for me not being able to do a thing to the AI reaction xD Is there any topic about it? (besides Cleon's thread)

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I've had a look through most of this thread but I haven't been able to find if anyone has answered this yet.

I'm finding my wingers get through on goal, and rather than square the ball to the striker for an easy goal they tend to shoot from tighter angles. I've got both wingers set to cross from byline but the still seem to shoot 9 times out of 10. Do I need to see if I can tutor/train them both in looks for pass rather than score or is there a quicker and easier way?

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I've had a look through most of this thread but I haven't been able to find if anyone has answered this yet.

I'm finding my wingers get through on goal, and rather than square the ball to the striker for an easy goal they tend to shoot from tighter angles. I've got both wingers set to cross from byline but the still seem to shoot 9 times out of 10. Do I need to see if I can tutor/train them both in looks for pass rather than score or is there a quicker and easier way?

What Duty do they have?

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AML has attack and AMR has support.

Are they equally taking lots of shots, or is it weighted towards the Attack Duty guy?

Are the options in the middle available and unmarked - how many men do you usually have in the box to receive a pass?

Have you got any Team Instructions set that would affect decision making or tendency to shoot?

Do the Wingers have any PPMs which encourage them to shoot?

With the either Duty Winger, the easiest thing to do is to set them to Shoot Less Often.

On top of that, you can ask the team to Work Ball Into Box to reduce all players long shots.

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With regard to the lack of decent attacking play from central areas as per the fantastic post on the Feedback thread by akkm I was wondering if anyone has put a solo striker on "dribble more" as an instruction? Because my strikers tend to be target men I haven't as yet tried this due to poor dribbling stats but I still find even when clear through they tend to shoot on sight rather than take it a few extra steps so wondering if anyone had any success by trying to force a striker to take those few extra steps by utilising the above instruction?

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I still find even when clear through they tend to shoot on sight rather than take it a few extra steps so wondering if anyone had any success by trying to force a striker to take those few extra steps by utilising the above instruction?

This issue is a known ME bug unfortunately.

Doesn't tend to happen all the time, but it is annoying when it does.

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This issue is a known ME bug unfortunately.

Doesn't tend to happen all the time, but it is annoying when it does.

Another issue I see quite a lot is one I have just had. Just tinkering with tactics and had my striker as an CF A but in a 4231 with the midfield across the CM strata. He scores a lovely header but my Assistant is screaming that the gap between the midfield and attack is too large. Swap the CF to support and the whole team seems to lose it's shape with the striker not getting into the box and not being high enough up the field. I find this a big issue where in my experience anyway support strikers aren't attacking enough and yet if you play the rest of the team deeper, even with midfielders on attacking duties an attacking lone striker seems to be too isolated or that's what the Assistant and a lot of advice seems to dictate yet I always feel that a striker on attack scores far more than one on support does. Just my experience.

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On the team training screen, the 'fitness' focus says it prioritises strength, fitness and conditioning. Strength and fitness are obvious, but what exactly does it mean by conditioning? Am I right in thinking that this would actually reduce jadedness and therefore injury proneness, or is that only achieved by rest?

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On the team training screen, the 'fitness' focus says it prioritises strength, fitness and conditioning. Strength and fitness are obvious, but what exactly does it mean by conditioning? Am I right in thinking that this would actually reduce jadedness and therefore injury proneness, or is that only achieved by rest?

I believe it is Stamina training.

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Another issue I see quite a lot is one I have just had. Just tinkering with tactics and had my striker as an CF A but in a 4231 with the midfield across the CM strata. He scores a lovely header but my Assistant is screaming that the gap between the midfield and attack is too large. Swap the CF to support and the whole team seems to lose it's shape with the striker not getting into the box and not being high enough up the field. I find this a big issue where in my experience anyway support strikers aren't attacking enough and yet if you play the rest of the team deeper, even with midfielders on attacking duties an attacking lone striker seems to be too isolated or that's what the Assistant and a lot of advice seems to dictate yet I always feel that a striker on attack scores far more than one on support does. Just my experience.

Just ignore the Assistant; he causes far more bother than he fixes.

I almost always play single striker formations with a Support Duty striker up front, and have no issues with him being too deep, isolated or ineffective.

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What have I managed here????

Just been tinkering and thought I would try something different. Played a 433/451 away at Everton and played defensive/fluid BUT played a higher defensive line and offside trap and had all players on individual instructions of "more closing down". Won 3-0 !! Some of the play was excellent and that might be down to the defensive mentality as the play didn't seem rushed and the closing down was a lot better by setting it individually rather than have "hassle opponents". Yes it's one game but it's food for thought as I have always thought of a higher line as an attacking strategy.

Some questions though :

1. Is it illogical to play defensive with a high line and offside?

2. Do individual instructions over ride team instructions or vice versa? For example what would happen if I also added the team instruction of "hassle opponents" on top of having all players close down more individually?

3. The only area of concern was the amount of intercepted passes my keeper gave away. I played him as a SK S with the idea of him being higher because of the high line but his passing isn't the best obviously so how would you play him, still sweeping up but not giving so many passes away?

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1 - I use defensive and a high line because it just means a higher deep line. Using offside though will be disastrous long term as the d-line is still deep and it will allow player sin behind.

2 - Individual instructions override team instructions.

3 - If you are defensive then it makes sense to play out from the back imo, so maybe ask him to distribute to the defence etc?

Maybe you might enjoy reading this about defensive football and see just how attacking it can be;

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/391083-The-School-of-the-Defensive-Arts

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Why are my attackers ALWAYS offsides?? I just lost to blackpool 3-4, it would have been 7-4 but every goal I scored was disallowed because my attacker was offsides! So frustrating!!!

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1 - I use defensive and a high line because it just means a higher deep line. Using offside though will be disastrous long term as the d-line is still deep and it will allow player sin behind.

2 - Individual instructions override team instructions.

3 - If you are defensive then it makes sense to play out from the back imo, so maybe ask him to distribute to the defence etc?

Maybe you might enjoy reading this about defensive football and see just how attacking it can be;

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/391083-The-School-of-the-Defensive-Arts

Thanks Cleon. I am making my way through your thread and it was one of the reasons I thought I would change philosophy. I was amazed as how good the football can be, I was so pleased with some of the passing moves it actually looked like players were taking their time and making sure of the pass where I have found control and attacking to be more rushed and more errors occurring. It's the first time I have seen high ratings across the board as well and finally had both my attacking wide men contributing rather than one.

Can you take a look at this and advise. It was how I played in that game. It's only one game I know but a good start just in time for FM15!!!

------------- AF A------------

IF S----------------------W A

---------DLP S---CM A------

---------------AM D----------

FB A----CB D-------CB D---FB S

---------------SK S----------

Defensive/Fluid

Higher line

Offside trap

Individual - more closing down on all if not already allocated due to role and duty.

I have tried to line up with regard to using space which was also on another thread of yours. All roles I have picked to allow the player to use space in front of him accordingly for example an IF S in front of a DLP S, W A in front of a CM A and the AF A ahead of them. I have always really used a supporting forward but I didn't want him dropping into the IF S and CM A space.

Would you get rid of the offside trap?

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I suppose this question probably goes here. Would the team instruction "Be More Expressive" lead to more fouls particularly of the kind that results in being carded?

The reason I ask is that I am attempting to tweak a tactical setup that had been successful, but it started developing some issues in linking the defense with the attack and in the attack itself. Basically just an issue of a slightly different mix of players in the midfield who can't run things the same as the previous group. Anyway, I didn't change terribly much on the defensive end except to move a DM up to the CM line to help with the linking issue. I did use the TI Be More Expressive. I haven't used it much before, but I have creative attackers and I want to see if using that helps the attack out. Obviously, having moved a DM up could necessitate other changes at the back, but I want to see how the tactics play out before changing too much. That's where the issues come in -- seeing how the tactics play out.

My normally disciplined backline is suddenly getting a man sent off early in matches. I normally get a player sent off maybe once or twice a season. Since the tactical change, it's four out of five games. And when I say it happens early in matches, I mean early. One guy got a second yellow card in the 22nd minute. In the next game, a player got a red card in the 12th minute. This is severely limiting the amount of information I can gather about how effective my tweaking is. I can and do watch the first few minutes of matches of course, but the information I get is limited by the game situations that come up. And, the post-match reports are rendered useless by the amount of time my team was down a man.

It doesn't appear that there was any need for the fouls either. It's not as if the players were under pressure and it's a last resort to stop an opposition attack. I realize it could be a limitation in the match engine, but it looks as if my players just suddenly decided to have a go at the opponents. When my player got sent off in the 12th minute, the opponent's winger had the ball out wide on the flank. He was held up by one of my midfielders about 10 yards from where an extended penalty box line would have been. My DR who was standing in his line a bit deeper than that suddenly decided to sprint out and perform what I can only describe as a flying tackle on the held up winger for no discernible reason that resulted in a well deserved red card. Could Be More Expressive be causing my players to unleash what I can only imagine must be their inner rage demons that have been under wraps until now? This is just an odd coincidence, right?

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Can anyone recommend any threads I can read about playing a midfield diamond? I haven't done it before but it is something I'd like to experiment with. My biggest concern is maintaining width.

My memory is crap, so I can't recall anything recently.

My view on a diamond is that the width obviously is easiest to generate via the full bakcs.

With that in mind, the DM is a critical player, and you also need the MCs to offer a degree of defensive cover out wide.

It would appear on paper that the Half Back is a good idea for a DM Role in this system.

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My memory is crap, so I can't recall anything recently.

My view on a diamond is that the width obviously is easiest to generate via the full bakcs.

With that in mind, the DM is a critical player, and you also need the MCs to offer a degree of defensive cover out wide.

It would appear on paper that the Half Back is a good idea for a DM Role in this system.

Thanks RTH.

I have a good idea about how I would like to play the 4 in the midfield diamond; it is organising the players around them I am struggling with. I am frustrating myself by trying to get the best of all worlds but I really want width without compromising up front or in defence.

Could I get away with using WBs in a 4-4-2 diamond or is that overly aggressive?

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You can easily.. see the Defence Arts thread by Cleon... if you have HB as recommened by RTH.. you can for sure play CWB(A) / WB(S) since HB will change defence into a 3 man..and as long as you MCs line cover as well. it will be no problem.. Make sure you have good aerial keeper and good height/header CBs. as you are going to see quite a lot of cross coming in..

I personally use 4-1DM-3MCs-2STs... and yes i conceded a bit more from crosses.. but hey you have to leak goal from somewhere right?

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How to train a player's teamwork? (if trainable at all)

Can a player like Shaqiri and Thiago Alcantara, (both tw=10) reach a level like 15+ ?

Teamwork is trainable with some roles training. As is usually the case with role training, it is difficult to get a specific attribute exceptionally high. But you can pick one of the roles that involve TW (if available) and see how it goes. Of course, in such a case, you 'll be investing Ability points in the other attributes of the role too.

Note that my training facilities are below average, so I can't know whether TW becomes trainable separately with better facilities.

In the 5 years of my save, I have only had one player whose TW increased significantly (4 points within 3 years). Still, I run a LLM club with low-potential players, so it shouldn't be out of the question.

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Teamwork is trainable with some roles training. As is usually the case with role training, it is difficult to get a specific attribute exceptionally high. But you can pick one of the roles that involve TW (if available) and see how it goes. Of course, in such a case, you 'll be investing Ability points in the other attributes of the role too.

Note that my training facilities are below average, so I can't know whether TW becomes trainable separately with better facilities.

In the 5 years of my save, I have only had one player whose TW increased significantly (4 points within 3 years). Still, I run a LLM club with low-potential players, so it shouldn't be out of the question.

oh I get it now, thank u!

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About tactical attributes' meaning in editor

What does the depth, flexibility and flamboyancy of a manager/club's tactical attributes really means on the game?

i know that depth doesn't mean a deeper defensive line, that's the sitting back attribute.

i wonder if flexibility has anything to do with fluid/ridig philosophies or a game-by-game biased tactical setup

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If and when playing with a high defensive line, would you consider height & jumping reach of a defender as important attributes? My main two center backs have quite a poor header won v head attempt ratio. Neither of them are very tall and both have really poor jumping reach stats.

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If and when playing with a high defensive line, would you consider height & jumping reach of a defender as important attributes? My main two center backs have quite a poor header won v head attempt ratio. Neither of them are very tall and both have really poor jumping reach stats.

Jumping reach is always important for a center back. You can make it less important by playing a high line and keeping tall strikers out of the penalty area as much as possible, but it will still come into play at times.

I generally try to avoid shorter center backs, but if you have them I'd play a higher line (assuming they're quick/smart enough to do that).

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Jumping reach is always important for a center back. You can make it less important by playing a high line and keeping tall strikers out of the penalty area as much as possible, but it will still come into play at times.

I generally try to avoid shorter center backs, but if you have them I'd play a higher line (assuming they're quick/smart enough to do that).

I was using a tactic that deployed a very high defensive line with aggressive pressing high up the pitch, and the majority, if not all of the goals conceded against me, which bare in mind, was quite a lot, were high balls over the top. Quite often you could see via the match engine that my defenders would go for the header but completely miss the ball rendering them completely useless.

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Would need some advice and recommendations.

Penalty Takers

Generally speaking I sort them by PT ability and go from there.

I try to keep an eye on finishing, but not that much on composure (again, generally speaking available PT's average composure is 9).

Set Pieces

Because all my set pieces are given short, I don't fancy foot here that much, unless it's R or L only.

Corners (both sides) are given by right, left or either foot players.

Free kicks are given on left side by left footed players and on right side by right footed players.

Throw ins - no favors, I just sort by Long Throws and go from there.

For set pieces after writing this, I wonder about my method - considering I give them short.

Is there a stat I can hunt like general 'throws' instead of 'long throws'?

Captains

I go by leadership almost solely.

How much I should take determination in account here?

I changed captains last time in beginning of season (after few games) and GK got furious and threatened it would

have impact on whole squad morale - which it didn't.

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Hi all,

Just a quick question... Was wondering if there were any default instructions behind each mentality. E.g. 'Counter' at default having a higher tempo or 'Attacking' creating more width than normal? Is there a list of these anywhere? I always presumed this not to be the case but read that it was.

Thanks

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What role would you guys suggest for an AMC with high work rate/teamwork/determination and physical attributes? I basically want him to play like a BWM but higher up the pitch, pressing the opposition but playing it simple with the ball as his technical attributes are quite poor

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Why is there a 'Cross less often' player instruction if it doesn't do a thing? I don't want to play a crossing game, and therefore always apply it to my wide players; yet they take every opportunity to cross the ball, even when they have loads of space to take on a defender/cut in or some good passing options available. It's infuriating.

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What are some ways to strengthen defense when you are using 4-2-3-1 tactic?

I use "Hassle opponents" "Use offside trap" "Narrower play" "Work ball into box" with Control and Disciplined.

-------------AF(A)-----------

IF (S) ----- AP (A) ---------W(A)

------CM(D) -------- CM(S)-------

FB(S)--CB(D)---------CB(D)-----FB(S)

I wanted to recreate Arsenal's tactic with little bit of Barcelona style. I wanted to see IF(Carzola) disrupting the opponent's defense through dribble or pass, AP(Ozil) giving creative passes, W(A)(Walcott) destroying

the right side and CM(S) overlapping to support the build up (Ramsey). At home game or against weak opponents (when on the ball), I see these plays and I am really happy with how my players go with the offence.

HOWEVER, my team concedes too much goals. There were three common patterns that the opponent uses to score.

1. One of my central defender goes up to press, leaving the space behind. The opponent exploits that space.

2. The opponent's wings exploit the space behind my fullbacks.

3. My defense gets crushed by the opponent's pass work between fullbacks and wingers.

Any solution?

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What are some ways to strengthen defense when you are using 4-2-3-1 tactic?

I use "Hassle opponents" "Use offside trap" "Narrower play" "Work ball into box" with Control and Disciplined.

-------------AF(A)-----------

IF (S) ----- AP (A) ---------W(A)

------CM(D) -------- CM(S)-------

FB(S)--CB(D)---------CB(D)-----FB(S)

I wanted to recreate Arsenal's tactic with little bit of Barcelona style. I wanted to see IF(Carzola) disrupting the opponent's defense through dribble or pass, AP(Ozil) giving creative passes, W(A)(Walcott) destroying

the right side and CM(S) overlapping to support the build up (Ramsey). At home game or against weak opponents (when on the ball), I see these plays and I am really happy with how my players go with the offence.

HOWEVER, my team concedes too much goals. There were three common patterns that the opponent uses to score.

1. One of my central defender goes up to press, leaving the space behind. The opponent exploits that space.

2. The opponent's wings exploit the space behind my fullbacks.

3. My defense gets crushed by the opponent's pass work between fullbacks and wingers.

Any solution?

I had the absolutly same problem with this formation and i wasn't able to solve it. I think it's a weakness of this formation at all because the wingers don't work back enough. I switched to a 4411 and it worked much better. And surprise surprise if i clicked on average positions then i saw that the players were in almost the same positions like in a 4231 just the distance btw FB and winger was shorter. And Players who can play AML/R positions work also in ML/MR Position even when thev game says they play it akward. Trust me

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I had the absolutly same problem with this formation and i wasn't able to solve it. I think it's a weakness of this formation at all because the wingers don't work back enough. I switched to a 4411 and it worked much better. And surprise surprise if i clicked on average positions then i saw that the players were in almost the same positions like in a 4231 just the distance btw FB and winger was shorter. And Players who can play AML/R positions work also in ML/MR Position even when thev game says they play it akward. Trust me

That is a problem for sure; Cleon pointed it out some months back. Wingers in the AM position don't track back as they should leaving holes. What you suggest Stonebiter is absolutely the solution- use the MR/ML positions and winger roles. I hope this is something we see addressed in 15, but in the meantime, this is a fix that works without really compromising much.

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That is a problem for sure; Cleon pointed it out some months back. Wingers in the AM position don't track back as they should leaving holes. What you suggest Stonebiter is absolutely the solution- use the MR/ML positions and winger roles. I hope this is something we see addressed in 15, but in the meantime, this is a fix that works without really compromising much.

Wouldn't hold our breath though, a lack of tracking back from the AM positions full stop has been poor ever since the 3d came into play, or at least is has been more noticeable since then.

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