Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)

[RTHerringbone]

This question seems a lot more stupid than the others...

On previous FMs there was a box thing at the bottom of the tactic overview where you could select playmaker, target man and whether to counter or not... has this gone or been moved anywhere? I would like to select what sort of target man I'm playing- although the game seems to automatically- but also turn counter on when not using a counter formation. Cheers guys.

Just answered similar elsewhere.

Tick boxes have gone, and in the case of Playmaker and Target Man, this is tied to the Roles you use (Playmaker Roles are DLP, AP, Regista, Enganche and Trequartista), and using one or more of these Roles will see your team aim to pass to them before a "non-Playmaking" Role.

Similar for Target Man, where we have the Wide Target Man and Target Man Roles.

Counter (i.e. players flooding forward in certain circumstances) is linked to Mentality - Counter, Defensive and Overload exhibit this behaviour. Similar can be achieved with other Mentalities with the right combination of Team / Player Instructions and Duties.

[BiggusD]

I honestly don't think it is clearer. It actually looks like the man on the right is actually behind play so it's possible your player hasn't seen him appearing in the corner. Plus your player has low team work of 12 which means he's more inclined to shoot.

Add to this you instructed the players to run at defence which he has done, he then shoots. This doesn't help the situation because you are telling them to dribble which means head is down as they drive forward, which makes it harder to see passing options.

To be honest, I have been missing the Run With Ball + Pass option (in actual gameplay) for years. Not seeing it too often since FM2011. Most of the time, it is Run With Ball + Shoot or Run With Ball + Cross. I don't know how often that happens in real life, though. Maybe it is statistically accurate. I only know that when I was running with the ball through the centre myself in the old days (at very amateur level) I was often just waiting for the backing-off defender to finally decide that enough is enough (as I neared shooting range) before then playing a short through ball in the space he left for an attacker to run onto it. I am sure I have also seen it in professional football.

What are your impressions regarding RWB + pass/shoot/cross in FM13 and 14?

[Cleon]

To be honest, I have been missing the Run With Ball + Pass option (in actual gameplay) for years. Not seeing it too often since FM2011. Most of the time, it is Run With Ball + Shoot or Run With Ball + Cross. I don't know how often that happens in real life, though. Maybe it is statistically accurate. I only know that when I was running with the ball through the centre myself in the old days (at very amateur level) I was often just waiting for the backing-off defender to finally decide that enough is enough (as I neared shooting range) before then playing a short through ball in the space he left for an attacker to run onto it. I am sure I have also seen it in professional football.

What are your impressions regarding RWB + pass/shoot/cross in FM13 and 14?

I find players will run with the ball and pass but only if they supporting players can keep up with play. If we take the screenshot above as an example, look how his players are trying to keep up with play yet don't seem to be able to get beyond the player with the ball. If you provide the player with support he will pass I've found. I prefer my attacking players to be slower than the supporting players for this exact reason. Attacking mentality and a fast player means support is always going to be a struggle.

[RTHerringbone]

I prefer my attacking players to be slower than the supporting players for this exact reason.

That's a very interesting point.

I set something up last week with a general style of play and combination of Roles, that means we always have a playmaking ball carrier behind three mobile forward players. Where the ball is, and where the movement is, determines how many options your team has.

[Steve Odom]

I find players will run with the ball and pass but only if they supporting players can keep up with play. If we take the screenshot above as an example, look how his players are trying to keep up with play yet don't seem to be able to get beyond the player with the ball. If you provide the player with support he will pass I've found. I prefer my attacking players to be slower than the supporting players for this exact reason. Attacking mentality and a fast player means support is always going to be a struggle.

Do you take position on the pitch into account? My really slow forward drops deep and pulls some great through balls off, even when holding up the ball. Although his stats wouldn't suggest any great awareness, he seems to know where every one off the team seems to be at all times. So basically he is a DLF (s) and very slow, and passes through balls to the faster WGR's (A) a lot.

[Cleon]

That's a very interesting point.

I set something up last week with a general style of play and combination of Roles, that means we always have a playmaking ball carrier behind three mobile forward players. Where the ball is, and where the movement is, determines how many options your team has.

I think its a very overlooked part of FM and not enough people seem to even consider speed for playing a role in supporting players.

What shape did you use?

[Cleon]

Do you take position on the pitch into account? My really slow forward drops deep and pulls some great through balls off, even when holding up the ball. Although his stats wouldn't suggest any great awareness, he seems to know where every one off the team seems to be at all times. So basically he is a DLF (s) and very slow, and passes through balls to the faster WGR's (A) a lot.

I play like this too. It's why in the new thread I just posted I use a slow defensive forward, so the AP/DLP/WM's can all get involved with him laying the ball off etc. I have a more suited DF but he is fast and it means he will be too advanced when running because my midfield isn't that fast to begin with.

[RTHerringbone]

I think its a very overlooked part of FM and not enough people seem to even consider speed for playing a role in supporting players.

What shape did you use?

A narrow 4-4-2 Diamond.

It was build to maximise the influence of a Shadow Striker, so was all about using the guys in front of him (Defensive Forward and False Nine) to create space using different movement. The False Nine pulled his DC forward, the Defensive Forward Moves Into Channels and Runs Wide With Ball, to push his DC back and wide.

It creates a mass of space diagonally for the SS to move into, and he has three(!) playmaking Roles behind to offer differing types of support and supply; a Regista at DM, DLP (D) and AP (A) at MC.

[Steve Odom]

I play like this too. It's why in the new thread I just posted I use a slow defensive forward, so the AP/DLP/WM's can all get involved with him laying the ball off etc. I have a more suited DF but he is fast and it means he will be too advanced when running because my midfield isn't that fast to begin with.

First time I've heard any one made a point against speed in any player. What strikers me as odd in this case is actually the fact he gets on the end of through balls a lot too, despite his lack of pace. Probably because he turns up at just the right moment for them to happen. I haven't considered this before, thanks.

This is the player in question, by the way:

[Tery Whenett]

Can't quick strikers choose to run more slowly until their teammates have linked up? (Especially when they are played in supporting roles?)

[RocheBag]

What's the relationship between Long Shots, Free Kicks, and Finishing? I have a Midfielder with 8 Finishing, 11 Free Kicks, but 20 Long Shots. I have him set to have a go from range whenever he likes, but I'm just wondering if these other attributes are bringhimg him down.

When he shoots from 30 yards, is it only his Long Shots that matters, or does his 8 Finishing harm his chances. And with free kicks, will the Long Shots help him or does only the actual Free Kick attribute matter? Thanks guys.

[RTHerringbone]

What's the relationship between Long Shots, Free Kicks, and Finishing? I have a Midfielder with 8 Finishing, 11 Free Kicks, but 20 Long Shots. I have him set to have a go from range whenever he likes, but I'm just wondering if these other attributes are bringhimg him down.

When he shoots from 30 yards, is it only his Long Shots that matters, or does his 8 Finishing harm his chances. And with free kicks, will the Long Shots help him or does only the actual Free Kick attribute matter? Thanks guys.

Long Shots relates to accuracy from Range.

Technique is an important one to determine the quality of a difficult free kick - distance arguably makes a free kick more difficult.

Composure will determine how calmly the kick is taken, which allies with Creativity (seeing the options) and Decisions (picking the option).

Finishing for me is more about open play, but I could well be wrong.

[Steve Odom]

Why does the game list 'finishing' as an important attribute for penalties then? I never take it into account, but SI does hint it is more than just an open play attribute. I don't think it will influence long shots though, because it would be counter intuitive.

[Cleon]

First time I've heard any one made a point against speed in any player. What strikers me as odd in this case is actually the fact he gets on the end of through balls a lot too, despite his lack of pace. Probably because he turns up at just the right moment for them to happen. I haven't considered this before, thanks.

This is the player in question, by the way:

Do you remember the 'Understanding' thread I did last year? Lam had issues with Cavanni due to him being too fast for the striker role and the rest of the side couldn't keep up with him. I had the same issue with Neymar too at times and due to his speed he became an 'individual' rather than a team player. But when I played someone slower in the same role with-in the same team then link up was better. The treq would drop deep, pass the ball and then be able to support attacks from deeper.

I guess this is why your player seems to get into scoring chances because he's unmarked coming from centre towards goal? A simple ball and the defence is split, hence his goals.

[Cleon]

Can't quick strikers choose to run more slowly until their teammates have linked up? (Especially when they are played in supporting roles?)

Depends if they are team player or not. Also depends on how far behind the support is, if the player has to hold his run/speed/position for longer the more composed he needs to be to not panic and shoot from range etc.

[Cleon]

Why does the game list 'finishing' as an important attribute for penalties then? I never take it into account, but SI does hint it is more than just an open play attribute. I don't think it will influence long shots though, because it would be counter intuitive.

Finishing is the ability to hit the target and is what's used for shots inside the box.

[BiggusD]

What's the relationship between Long Shots, Free Kicks, and Finishing? I have a Midfielder with 8 Finishing, 11 Free Kicks, but 20 Long Shots. I have him set to have a go from range whenever he likes, but I'm just wondering if these other attributes are bringhimg him down.

When he shoots from 30 yards, is it only his Long Shots that matters, or does his 8 Finishing harm his chances. And with free kicks, will the Long Shots help him or does only the actual Free Kick attribute matter? Thanks guys.

The shooting attributes (Finishing, Long Shots, Free Kicks and Penalties) are about shooting accuracy. Lots of other attributes come into play before the ball leaves his foot, to put it like that. In order to get into a position to shoot, Off the Ball and Anticipation attributes are for instance no-brainers for clever movement. Then he needs to control the ball and get ready to shoot, and for that Balance, Technique, First Touch, Composure, Strength (to hold off opponents) are all likely to have a say. Then there's the player's mental focus; nervous? Likely to shoot too early... And finally there's the keeper to beat!

For Long Shots, I think Flair and Decisions come into play, as well as Technique. Maybe even Determination, as the will to win may influence his decision to shoot. I usually consider a 30 meter cannonball shot that flies into the top corner a Flair shot rather than related to the Long Shots attribute. But then maybe I'm a bit too harsh on FM

[RTHerringbone]

Why does the game list 'finishing' as an important attribute for penalties then? I never take it into account, but SI does hint it is more than just an open play attribute. I don't think it will influence long shots though, because it would be counter intuitive.

The difference between Finishing and Long Shots is relatively ambiguous. Inside / outside the box appears to be the differentiator, with Finishing (for me) inside the box.

Finishing is generally "accuracy of shot" attribute, whereas Long Shots specifically relates to accuracy from distance.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

Have a player tutored several times at the same time? No. This has never been the case on FM.

It is possible in FM10.

[Cleon]

It is possible in FM10.

It's a bug and didn't actually work, he still only got tutored by 1 player.

[RocheBag]

The difference between Finishing and Long Shots is relatively ambiguous. Inside / outside the box appears to be the differentiator, with Finishing (for me) inside the box.

Finishing is generally "accuracy of shot" attribute, whereas Long Shots specifically relates to accuracy from distance.

So a low Finishing attribute shouldn't harm him scoring from outside the box with his 20 Long Shots attribute?

[Cleon]

So a low Finishing attribute shouldn't harm him scoring from outside the box with his 20 Long Shots attribute?

Nope only inside the box:)

[pigfacemonkeyman]

It's a bug and didn't actually work, he still only got tutored by 1 player.

I'm sure it is a bug, but I can assure you that every player gets tutored. There is a second type of multi-tutoring where a player being tutored was also able to tutor another player, in this scenario no one gets tutored.

[RocheBag]

Nope only inside the box:)

Okay thanks

[Cleon]

I'm sure it is a bug, but I can assure you that every player gets tutored. There is a second type of multi-tutoring where a player being tutored was also able to tutor another player, in this scenario no one gets tutored.

The hidden attributes don't rise though or get altered. They only get altered by the first tutor.

[cainite]

I honestly don't think it is clearer. It actually looks like the man on the right is actually behind play so it's possible your player hasn't seen him appearing in the corner.

don't get me wrong i mean judging by your post count,you seem like a god but is it possible that you upload a photo in which you think is clear enough,i mean i ,for one, cannot see how it should be any clearer.as to the teamwork i don't think it's that low and i've seen my playmakers with truly low teamwork and yet able to create goals. and if it's because Run at defence thing(which wasn't the tactic i used in that game,it's merely a new tactic i've been working on since no matter what i do the opposition always floods theirwon box,i thought with the pace my team got i can catch the with thier pants down) it's really stupid-not on your part-that he simply won't pass to a perfectly open player(again I insist it's an open position) because i ticked i box

[RTHerringbone]

don't get me wrong i mean judging by your post count,you seem like a god but is it possible that you upload a photo in which you think is clear enough

Cleon's point is that if you follow the lines on the pitch horizontally, you can see that the AMR is actually a touch behind the ball carrier.

Is it therefore inconceivable that the ball carrier hasn't seen that run?

If you really feel it is an issue, then upload a .pkm from that match to the Bugs Forum, and an SI tester will watch the match back and give you their official view.

[Cleon]

I don't think its as clear as you are making out and gave you reasons why it happened. If you aren't open to the possibility then I'll not waste my time trying to help you with the issues, its pointless on my part.

[Tery Whenett]

Are team instructions additive or absolute?

To be clearer: When I choose "push higher up" is my DL then set to the value behind "push higher up" or is this value added to the DL-height already given by the mentality?

(Hope you understand me as I'm not a native speaker.)

[cainite]

Cleon's point is that if you follow the lines on the pitch horizontally, you can see that the AMR is actually a touch behind the ball carrier.

Is it therefore inconceivable that the ball carrier hasn't seen that run?

If you really feel it is an issue, then upload a .pkm from that match to the Bugs Forum, and an SI tester will watch the match back and give you their official view.

already did that with 3 pkms said they will look into that but then they said every attempt they make towards enriching whe attacking play a another bug pops out, so i doubt they will make it better any time soon

[RTHerringbone]

Are team instructions additive or absolute?

To be clearer: When I choose "push higher up" is my DL then set to the value behind "push higher up" or is this value added to the DL-height already given by the mentality?

(Hope you understand me as I'm not a native speaker.)

The Mentality dictates the initial Defensive Line.

Defensive Line modifiers such as Push Higher Up are relative to that Mentality - so Push Higher Up with Standard Mentality results in a higher line than if Push Higher Up is used with a Counter Mentality (purely because the default Defensive Line of Counter is deeper than that of Standard).

Does that help?

[cainite]

I don't think its as clear as you are making out and gave you reasons why it happened. If you aren't open to the possibility then I'll not waste my time trying to help you with the issues, its pointless on my part.

I didn't say anything i just asked if you could show me an clearer position so that i might know.i obviously want help else i wouldn't be here.

[Cleon]

Upload your PKM and tell me which minute this happens in and I'll show you off your own game.

[cainite]

Upload your PKM and tell me which minute this happens in and I'll show you off your own game.

you want me to upload that particular game?

[Tery Whenett]

Does that help?

Yep, perfectly

At least that means that I can't play a defensive mentality with a defensive line as high as attacking + push much higher up even if I apply push much higher up? (Not that I want to.)

[RTHerringbone]

you want me to upload that particular game?

Yep, and then he'll be able to see exactly what you saw.

At what time did that incident occur? I can't quite make the time out in the image - 91:08?

[Cleon]

you want me to upload that particular game?

Please and tell me which minute it happens in.

[RTHerringbone]

Yep, perfectly

At least that means that I can't play a defensive mentality with a defensive line as high as attacking + push much higher up even if I apply push much higher up? (Not that I want to.)

Correct.

Some people think that it is restrictive to remove the "control" that the sliders purported to give, but the enforcement of the Tactics Creator structure means that everything has logical increments of change.

[Tery Whenett]

Some people think that it is restrictive to remove the "control" that the sliders purported to give, but the enforcement of the Tactics Creator structure means that everything has logical increments of change.

I am happy that the sliders are gone. The advantages of this are huge in my opinion and for the first time in my personal FM career I really want to dive deep into tactics. In all previous versions it was not very important for me.

[cainite]

Please and tell me which minute it happens in.

i'll do that in a minute but before... another issue and example

as you see akif alıcı is able to pass to grimaldo even when Grimaldo is obstructed-although this kind of accurate pass is very limited (and akif is much less creative than vietto) but...

then grimaldo gets ravaged by two defender(sliding tackle issue) instead of shooting the ball when he had the chance

and anotherinstance from the same game(of which pkm i cannot upload because 5 minutes ago game crashed for no apparent reason)

i believe it's clear enough but i don't know he obviously need to pass but instead...

he elects to shoot and keeper somehow saves it

and i'm sorry but that game was unsaved too which means i cannot upload it but i'll keep playing and maybe upload another game with similar position?

[Cleon]

Screenshots on their own don't prove or disprove anything for what its worth. This is because the build up and the players positions etc as its happening are all relevant. Without PKM's to show the full moves and not just an isolated still the screenshots are worthless.

Upload the PKM from the earlier game please. You've done more screenshots surely it would have been easy to add the PKM too? Please for the love of god don't be one of those users who moans/complains but then can't back it up with actual PKM evidence.

[RTHerringbone]

The problem with screenshots is they just create subjective speculation.

In the first one, Grimaldo could be running on the defenders blind side. The ball carrier is looking that way so is it a bad pass? I don't think so based on what I can see.

The Januzaj one also looks sensible based on what I can see. Is a pass a better option than cutting inside? Doesn't look like it as he does cut inside and create a good scoring opportunity.

[cainite]

Screenshots on their own don't prove or disprove anything for what its worth. This is because the build up and the players positions etc as its happening are all relevant. Without PKM's to show the full moves and not just an isolated still the screenshots are worthless.

Upload the PKM from the earlier game please. You've done more screenshots surely it would have been easy to add the PKM too? Please for the love of god don't be one of those users who moans/complains but then can't back it up with actual PKM evidence.

no really it just crashed the moment you asked for pkm-game was alt-tabbed- (I hoped for an autosave but no) although i can propose a different solution i now built up this tactic*-which is essentially the same as i used before in terms of player roles and insstructions but for the exception that it's rigid and won the first game 6-2 with many easy through passes in the third area i'll upload that game and perhaps you can tell me if it's a lucky win or not it's trabzonspor vs besiktas but this seems a familiar patter for me because whenever i made a made new tactics at first 2-3 matches I manage win easily with beautiful football but then it all goes south i'm uploading it now---- and as i was doing that my mouse's battery died i had to go down to the market god i'm having a tough night

*

[cainite]

The problem with screenshots is they just create subjective speculation.

In the first one, Grimaldo could be running on the defenders blind side. The ball carrier is looking that way so is it a bad pass? I don't think so based on what I can see.

The Januzaj one also looks sensible based on what I can see. Is a pass a better option than cutting inside? Doesn't look like it as he does cut inside and create a good scoring opportunity.

but the player in the centre is wide open why would he choose to get past a defender rather than simply passing which would end in a certain goal?(at least this was the case in FM11-12)

[Cleon]

I's pointless discussing it if you can't provide evidence so I suggest leaving it now.

If and when it happens again feel free to restart the discussion with a PKM supporting your claims.

I'm really disappointed that 4 people who have claimed similar things in the last week or so have been unable to provide a PKM yet can throw screenshots about like there is no tomorrow. It's disheartening to see people post about stuff and then not back it up with actual visuals so we can take a look and then submit a proper bug report if we think its an issue

[kandersson]

this must have been asked already but cannot find it right now

how do I 'suggest' my U19 manager which players to play for the U19 squad, which was supposed to be an excellent new feature? I pick the players in the tactics screen and save selection, but stupid manager always does what he wants (which regularly include leaving my favourite selected prospects out of the squad). Am I missing something here?

[ighozy]

My question is how do I stop my players from unnecessary shots? Its so annoying and making me lose important matches........

[cainite]

I's pointless discussing it if you can't provide evidence so I suggest leaving it now.

If and when it happens again feel free to restart the discussion with a PKM supporting your claims.

I'm really disappointed that 4 people who have claimed similar things in the last week or so have been unable to provide a PKM yet can throw screenshots about like there is no tomorrow. It's disheartening to see people post about stuff and then not back it up with actual visuals so we can take a look and then submit a proper bug report if we think its an issue

again i apologize but i'll get a bit deeper and upload the games i sent to developer,IIRC there were same issues there but i'll inspect them first just to be sure but as I have got a football match to watch i can only do all that in 2-3 hours.hope you'll be around

[pigfacemonkeyman]

The hidden attributes don't rise though or get altered. They only get altered by the first tutor.

When I say multi-tutoring I mean One tutor and Many tutees. I've never heard of it being done the other way round, it would be a waste of precious tutors.

[Cleon]

When I say multi-tutoring I mean One tutor and Many tutees. I've never heard of it being done the other way round, it would be a waste of precious tutors.

I know. But the first person you tutor is the only one who sees a change in his hidden attributes, the others don't get the benefit. Either way it was 100% a bug and was bugged again in FM13 but was fixed in one of the patches.