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If you don't choose your team to play "regroup" or "counter press" and just leaving both unselected, what does it mean?

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4 hours ago, luka_ said:

If you don't choose your team to play "regroup" or "counter press" and just leaving both unselected, what does it mean?

It means your players will behave in accordance with their roles, duties and other instructions (including the mentality as an inherently very important factor). 

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So, anyone else noticing fullbacks getting caught offside 10+ times _every single game_? It's getting incredibly annoying, to the point where having your fullbacks participating in attack is pointless. That, combine with them compulsively going full stop after passing their man instead of crossing... I mean, what?

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clarify me please, for default settings it looks like:

Cautious: DL play more direct, attacking group play shorter

Positive: DL play shorter, attacking group play more riskly

?

I read that it worked like this in times when cautious was counter. Not sure for now. Anyway I trying to understand FM logic because I'm confusing about I can create positive counter and cautious possession and feels like it's a conflict with how AI using mentality and I lose any basis at all :D

 

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Random question but is it possibly for your analyst to provide a tactical summary of the opposition after the game?

Ie, player roles, rough team instructions, that sort of thing? Or do I need to stop being lazy and figure it out from the stats myself...?

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2 help:

1) Is there a way to stop CD to try long pass even if he have regista near him? (And of course shorter pass and even try simple pass set) 

Do try risky pass for CD increase the pass to forward, or increase to play ball risky at back without non sense long balls?

 

2) i wanna play with 3 strikers. 

Is there a way to prevent them to stay all in exact same position in attacking phase like they were ghost to eachothers? Change the Wide of team has not effect. 

Edited by FlorianAlbert9
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1 hour ago, FlorianAlbert9 said:

Is there a way to stop CD to try long pass even if he have regista near him? (And of course shorter pass and even try simple pass set) 

Of course there is a way, but we don't know what your overall tactical setup looks like. Because a player's behavior is not affected only by his role, traits and PIs, but also a number of other factors in your tactic that may not necessarily be linked directly to him (including the mentality and certain team instructions). 

 

2 hours ago, FlorianAlbert9 said:

Do try risky pass for CD increase the pass to forward, or increase to play ball risky at back without non sense long balls?

I guess you are asking about the "Take more risks" player instruction, right? 

 

2 hours ago, FlorianAlbert9 said:

2) i wanna play with 3 strikers. 

Is there a way to prevent them to stay all in exact same position in attacking phase like they were ghost to eachothers? Change the Wide of team has not effect

Again, without seeing your whole tactic (screenshot), it's impossible to find out where the problem potentially is.

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18 minuti fa, Experienced Defender ha scritto:

Of course there is a way, but we don't know what your overall tactical setup looks like. Because a player's behavior is not affected only by his role, traits and PIs, but also a number of other factors in your tactic that may not necessarily be linked directly to him (including the mentality and certain team instructions). 

 

I guess you are asking about the "Take more risks" player instruction, right? 

 

Again, without seeing your whole tactic (screenshot), it's impossible to find out where the problem potentially is.

Thanks, you're right :)

This is the last setup i try.  ( I play with last official patch) 

For now i don't care about results (0 wins, 5 draw 2 Loss) 'cause they don't learn the tactics enough (and i have a very young team, avarege under 20)

But before go further i'd like to know if i'm making several mistakes.

I'd like to have a mezzala, but if i take off the roaming playmaker i fear to left to CD few option to build up the action.

 

(And i swap the central striker from Trequartista -that Is potentially a role i love, but i cannot use It)

 

Schermata 2020-01-26 alle 13.06.54.png

Edited by FlorianAlbert9
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5 hours ago, FlorianAlbert9 said:

Schermata 2020-01-26 alle 13.06.54.png

A lot of things are problematic in your tactic overall, but speaking specifically about what you asked:

- long passes by your CB may be caused by team instructions such as "be more expressive" and "pass into space" and/or player traits such as "tries long range passes" and/or "tries killer balls" (if he has any of these traits). If you give him the player instruction to "take more risks", he will also play more long passes deliberately. If you tell him to "take fewer risks", then he may play long passes in the no-nonsense manner when pressured by opposition.

8 hours ago, FlorianAlbert9 said:

i wanna play with 3 strikers. 

Is there a way to prevent them to stay all in exact same position in attacking phase like they were ghost to eachothers?

In the attacking phase, players naturally tend to move toward the side of the pitch where the ball is at the moment. If they really stay so strangely close to each other, you may try asking the outer ones to "stay wider" via the related PI. But your setup of the front 3 roles is far from optimal anyway. The same is true for the tactic as a whole IMHO.

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1 ora fa, Experienced Defender ha scritto:

A lot of things are problematic in your tactic overall, but speaking specifically about what you asked:

- long passes by your CB may be caused by team instructions such as "be more expressive" and "pass into space" and/or player traits such as "tries long range passes" and/or "tries killer balls" (if he has any of these traits). If you give him the player instruction to "take more risks", he will also play more long passes deliberately. If you tell him to "take fewer risks", then he may play long passes in the no-nonsense manner when pressured by opposition.

In the attacking phase, players naturally tend to move toward the side of the pitch where the ball is at the moment. If they really stay so strangely close to each other, you may try asking the outer ones to "stay wider" via the related PI. But your setup of the front 3 roles is far from optimal anyway. The same is true for the tactic as a whole IMHO.

Thanks. 

About CD. I training them all to play short simple pass. The only thing that i cannot try Is to leave unticked the risk option. 

And imho be more expressive should be affect support/attack players only.

 

About strikers they have stay wider. 

But both PI and TI make no difference in the area. 

I understand that they are striker, but they also have all the area where they can position themself while they tend stay all in the same point where there is the penalty sign.

 

In general i'm third for chance created, but last (20th) for goal scoring. 

The strikers play well when One of them have the ball, but the issue Is when they all are without It.

 

However if you wanna tell me any info how you put the team with 3 strikers, i listen :)

Edited by FlorianAlbert9
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11 minutes ago, FlorianAlbert9 said:

imho be more expressive should be affect support/attack players only

Team instructions affect all players, albeit not always to the same degree. Otherwise, they would not be called "team instructions". 

 

14 minutes ago, FlorianAlbert9 said:

About CD. I training them all to play short simple pass. The only thing that i cannot try Is to leave unticked the risk option

How do you mean you "cannot leave the risk option unticked" ??? 

 

15 minutes ago, FlorianAlbert9 said:

About strikers they have stay wider. 

But both PI and TI make no difference in the area. 

I understand that they are striker, but they also have all the area where they can position themself while they tend stay all in the same point where there is the penalty sign

From my experience, I can only assume their movement will improve once you create a more balanced and sensible tactic as a whole (rather than focusing on tactical elements in isolation). That's how I approach the tactics, and I never have such type of problems. Try to think about FM tactics from the perspective of real-life football. 

 

19 minutes ago, FlorianAlbert9 said:

However if you wanna tell me any info how you put the team with 3 strikers, i listen

I will be glad to help, but you first need to start a separate thread. Because this one is exclusively for quick-fire questions (not detailed tactical analysis) ;)

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I love a 4-1-2-3 DM wide formation (just like Klopps Liverpool) and I mimic the way Liverpool play the best I can.

I use my lone striker as a F9 however have always always struggled to use a Pressing Forward attack in this position. With an F9 I'm happy for Bobby to bag 15 goals a season across all comps however when I play Timo Werner as Pressing Forward I expect a higher return but it just doesn't work for some reason.

I play with attacking mentality extremely higher tempo, slightly more direct passing and as you probably guessed, with counter press and counter on.

Line up

SK sup

Lb: WB att

LCB: BPD

RCB: BPD

RB: WB att

CDM: DLP def

LCM: BBM

RCM: Mezz Sup

LW: IF sup

ST: PF att

RW: IF att

Is it because there is no AM?

Any suggestions to get my PF firing would help, thank you

 

Edited by LDP
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I'm trying to develop a 4-1-2-2-1 with two wide attackers and a lone central striker.  Im trying to get a short passing game but one that is meaningful with an end product.  I have always employed a support role in past iterations (FM18,FM17) such as a DLF or CF (s) as the thinking was always that it was needed to ensure they were not isolated.  However, I understand that in FM20, this is not always the case.  Can a lone striker be on an attack duty and what are some of the rules/advice to make this work effectively?

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1 hour ago, LDP said:

I love a 4-1-2-3 DM wide formation (just like Klopps Liverpool) and I mimic the way Liverpool play the best I can.

I use my lone striker as a F9 however have always always struggled to use a Pressing Forward attack in this position. With an F9 I'm happy for Bobby to bag 15 goals a season across all comps however when I play Timo Werner as Pressing Forward I expect a higher return but it just doesn't work for some reason.

I play with attacking mentality extremely higher tempo, slightly more direct passing and as you probably guessed, with counter press and counter on.

Line up

SK sup

Lb: WB att

LCB: BPD

RCB: BPD

RB: WB att

CDM: DLP def

LCM: BBM

RCM: Mezz Sup

LW: IF sup

ST: PF att

RW: IF att

Is it because there is no AM?

Any suggestions to get my PF firing would help, thank you

 

 

1 hour ago, Fieldsy said:

I'm trying to develop a 4-1-2-2-1 with two wide attackers and a lone central striker.  Im trying to get a short passing game but one that is meaningful with an end product.  I have always employed a support role in past iterations (FM18,FM17) such as a DLF or CF (s) as the thinking was always that it was needed to ensure they were not isolated.  However, I understand that in FM20, this is not always the case.  Can a lone striker be on an attack duty and what are some of the rules/advice to make this work effectively?

Both of you guys need to start respective separate threads, because your questions are not quick-fire ones and thus require deeper analysis. 

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Il 26/1/2020 in 20:37 , Experienced Defender ha scritto:

Team instructions affect all players, albeit not always to the same degree. Otherwise, they would not be called "team instructions". 

 

How do you mean you "cannot leave the risk option unticked" ??? 

 

From my experience, I can only assume their movement will improve once you create a more balanced and sensible tactic as a whole (rather than focusing on tactical elements in isolation). That's how I approach the tactics, and I never have such type of problems. Try to think about FM tactics from the perspective of real-life football. 

 

I will be glad to help, but you first need to start a separate thread. Because this one is exclusively for quick-fire questions (not detailed tactical analysis) ;)

At the end i stop using the 3 strikers at front, and i switch the right one to raumdeuter and the BBM to Mezzala (att). And both these roles score well.

The Raumdeuter scores 18 goals (third in general chart)

I end the season at second place a gained the promotion to Hungarian premier division (over the mid tablet prevision)

Very good but it's a pity 'cause It Is impossible play with a real strikers wide 'cause there Is not a single role that make your player stay wide and very high.

 

(Sorry i Copy and past the raumdeuter word and somehow it change the font :/ )

Edited by FlorianAlbert9
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On 27/01/2020 at 18:47, Experienced Defender said:

 

Both of you guys need to start respective separate threads, because your questions are not quick-fire ones and thus require deeper analysis. 

This is exactly the reason I posted on here cos I knew I'd get a response. I created a thread yesterday morning and although its had plenty of views, nobody has helped

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I just love that my players have a completely green circle in the position they play at. How come a player that has 100% green circle when getting to my club later in developlement get lesser familiar in the position he plays? Is that because i let my coaches do the training, and they train him in the wrong postition?

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The search function isn't really returning the results I'd like, so I'll ask in here - is there a good couple of threads to read about individual training, particularly back in the FM18 era? If someone knows, that would be very welcome :) 

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5 hours ago, LDP said:

This is exactly the reason I posted on here cos I knew I'd get a response. I created a thread yesterday morning and although its had plenty of views, nobody has helped

Sorry, but there is no thread started by you in the Tactics forum in the last few days. Maybe you posted it somewhere else by mistake, but not in the section where people ask for tactical help and advice. 

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On 25/01/2020 at 21:05, nextqprmanager said:

Hi, anyone know how to stop older players going on £600 coaching courses without my say so?, thanks

My question seems to have been missed?, I would appreciate an answer, thanks

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50 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Sorry, but there is no thread started by you in the Tactics forum in the last few days. Maybe you posted it somewhere else by mistake, but not in the section where people ask for tactical help and advice. 

I posted it in the wrong section and have moved it, sorry and thank you 

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Hi, 

Have anyone try, with sucess, pair a MEZ with a RAUM?

I'm trying to get my 4123 formation to work, but so far i'm having mixed results in that combo. The team is winning, no complains there, but on and off, my MEZ and RAUM are getting low average rating.

My global setup is this

DLF(a)

IF(s)                                     RAUM(a)

DLP(s)          MEZ(s)

DM(d)

WB(a)      CD(d)       CD(d)        FB(s)

Gk(d)

 

Team Instructions: Play from defence, Be more expressive, higher tempo, distribute to centerbacks, counter, counterpress, higher D-Line, much higher LOE

Like i said, the team is winning, but both MEZ and RAUM often gets the lowest av. rating in the team. In theory i was thinking that MEZ+RAUM could overload that space between the oponent central defender and left fullback and take advantage of that.

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1 hour ago, Keyzer Soze said:

Hi, 

Have anyone try, with sucess, pair a MEZ with a RAUM?

I'm trying to get my 4123 formation to work, but so far i'm having mixed results in that combo. The team is winning, no complains there, but on and off, my MEZ and RAUM are getting low average rating.

My global setup is this

DLF(a)

IF(s)                                     RAUM(a)

DLP(s)          MEZ(s)

DM(d)

WB(a)      CD(d)       CD(d)        FB(s)

Gk(d)

 

Team Instructions: Play from defence, Be more expressive, higher tempo, distribute to centerbacks, counter, counterpress, higher D-Line, much higher LOE

Like i said, the team is winning, but both MEZ and RAUM often gets the lowest av. rating in the team. In theory i was thinking that MEZ+RAUM could overload that space between the oponent central defender and left fullback and take advantage of that.

You need to start a separate thread for this type of advice. Because this one is specifically for quick-fire questions. Which yours is not.

Thanks!

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When leaving team training to the AI, do staff members set up team training schedules based on their tactical style/playing style?  Let's say i want to play tiki-taka, should i hire a coach who also plays and therfore trains a tiki taka style of football? It would make sense to me but i'm not sure if the game factors that in. 

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Is there enough attacking width in my team to try and either play around or disrupt narrow, defensive teams?

I'm playing a 4-1-4-1 DM Wide/4-1-2-3/4-3-3 with an IF(a)/Mez(s)/FB(s)* in the AML/LCM/LB spots and an IW(s)/DLP(s)/FB(a) in the AMR/RCM/RB slots. I appreciate a tactic should be considered as a whole so I can upload a picture later and/or create a separate thread or update one I previously created but the other key elements are that I'm also using a DLF(s) and play on Positive, Shorter Passing at Standard Tempo and Play out of Defence.

Would a Mezzala(s) overlap an IF to create width** since I don't have an overlapping FB/WB or are they likely to be getting in each other's way in the same space detrimentally with the Mezzala occupying the space an IF would want to drive through? Would it be more optimal to have two overlapping FBs/WBs and change the Mezzala into a different role [CM(s)?/BWM(d)?] so that we have an attacking front 5 spread across the width of the pitch; supported by 2 CMs recycling possession, attempting through balls when the opportunity arises and being the first line of defence against counters? My DM(d) behind would then be changed to a HB(d). Alternatively - would another option be to swap the IF to a Winger and the Mezzala to a direct attacking CM(a)?

I've been inspired by Michael Cox's recent article on The Athletic to try and have an attacking shape resembling a 2-3-5 so this is what I'm hoping to achieve.

*I would use an IWB on defend to occupy the space the Mezzala vacates but I don't have a good enough player for this role yet I think at season one Arsenal.

** I appreciate one off/random overlaps may happen naturally during the course of matches but I suppose would this be a routine movement expected?

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3 hours ago, False Nein said:

Is there enough attacking width in my team to try and either play around or disrupt narrow, defensive teams?

I'm playing a 4-1-4-1 DM Wide/4-1-2-3/4-3-3 with an IF(a)/Mez(s)/FB(s)* in the AML/LCM/LB spots and an IW(s)/DLP(s)/FB(a) in the AMR/RCM/RB slots. I appreciate a tactic should be considered as a whole so I can upload a picture later and/or create a separate thread or update one I previously created but the other key elements are that I'm also using a DLF(s) and play on Positive, Shorter Passing at Standard Tempo and Play out of Defence.

Would a Mezzala(s) overlap an IF to create width** since I don't have an overlapping FB/WB or are they likely to be getting in each other's way in the same space detrimentally with the Mezzala occupying the space an IF would want to drive through? Would it be more optimal to have two overlapping FBs/WBs and change the Mezzala into a different role [CM(s)?/BWM(d)?] so that we have an attacking front 5 spread across the width of the pitch; supported by 2 CMs recycling possession, attempting through balls when the opportunity arises and being the first line of defence against counters? My DM(d) behind would then be changed to a HB(d). Alternatively - would another option be to swap the IF to a Winger and the Mezzala to a direct attacking CM(a)?

I've been inspired by Michael Cox's recent article on The Athletic to try and have an attacking shape resembling a 2-3-5 so this is what I'm hoping to achieve.

*I would use an IWB on defend to occupy the space the Mezzala vacates but I don't have a good enough player for this role yet I think at season one Arsenal.

** I appreciate one off/random overlaps may happen naturally during the course of matches but I suppose would this be a routine movement expected?

This definitely needs screenshots and a separate thread buddy. I can't make head nor tail of all that text...

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What are the main differences between having a young player in your first team, but available for u23,

vs having him in the u23 squad but add him to the first team on the training - units screen?

I know you need to have him in your first team squad for mentoring with the senior players, but in terms of training for example
would adding him to a senior squad training unit allow him to only train with the senior team when they do actual training, and not preparing for upcoming(tomorrows) match?

I've read a bit about how a young player trains less if he is in the first team squad, available for u23 and then do the first teams match preparations even though he's not gonna be involved in that match when he rather should be training.

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Is it better for a 17 yo to train with the U19 team and average youth facilities or with the senior team with below average facilities. I would say better with th U19 but would like to be enlighted by the experts! Thanks!

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9 hours ago, Sharkn20 said:

Is it better for a 17 yo to train with the U19 team and average youth facilities or with the senior team with below average facilities. I would say better with th U19 but would like to be enlighted by the experts! Thanks!

Youth facilities does not refer to the quality of the facilities used by your U19 team. Once the players appear in the game they all use the same training facilities which in your case would be below average. Youth facilities is one of the factors which determine the quality of your newgens.

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Made tactic based on FM suggestions on team and players. Adjust some roles slightly to adjust to best roles of players without changing the overall much. Is this a sensible tactic? Do you see any obvious problems with it? I kept the TI's as given by FM, although I doubt a Vanarama League North team is strong enough for counter-press...

Edit: Also my star player (Green) isn't being used to the best of his abilities but I hope the Mezzala role brings him forward enough to have a long shot or 2 as he's pretty decent at that.

@Experienced Defender if I need to start a separate thread for this, just let me know and I will...

1417008967_4-1-4-1DMwidefluidcounter-attack.thumb.jpg.0458697195a78401422502e8aeaddc48.jpg

Edited by DJ Sir Matthew
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4 hours ago, Hovis Dexter said:

Youth facilities does not refer to the quality of the facilities used by your U19 team. Once the players appear in the game they all use the same training facilities which in your case would be below average. Youth facilities is one of the factors which determine the quality of your newgens.

So is it better for him to train with the Seniors or with the u19 team then?

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14 hours ago, Sharkn20 said:

Is it better for a 17 yo to train with the U19 team and average youth facilities or with the senior team with below average facilities. I would say better with th U19 but would like to be enlighted by the experts! Thanks!

 

4 hours ago, Hovis Dexter said:

Youth facilities does not refer to the quality of the facilities used by your U19 team. Once the players appear in the game they all use the same training facilities which in your case would be below average. Youth facilities is one of the factors which determine the quality of your newgens.

 

13 minutes ago, Sharkn20 said:

So is it better for him to train with the Seniors or with the u19 team then?

Good question which I deliberately dodged. I'd like to hear peoples' views about this.

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Is there anything that seems to be the meta in FM 20? I see many people saying this is a really easy FM, yet it's hardest I've played, no tactic seems to be working for me. 

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@Hovis Dexter @Sharkn20 Up until the age of 18 training is more important than game time for a player. Youth teams have less intense playing schedules and more time for training, so generally he will be better off staying in the youth ranks, only promoted to the first team training if you're going to play him.

Of course if your youth coaches are absolutely terrible, and your first team coaches are really good then it might be different. But generally I only promote under 18 players if I'm going to play them, otherwise I leave them to get more training. 

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I'm starting a new save with Sunderland. There is a very intersting player there, George Dobson. He has world class Bravery (19), Teamwork (18), Work Rate (19) and Stamina (17). His other stats are so-so (think 11-13 in general). He's not very fast (10/10 for Acc/Pace). What kind of role in a two-man and three-man midfield do you think he would be suitable for? For League One, do you think he covers so much ground that he can play along a DLP(s) in a 4231? Or is his lack of speed so bad that he should play a DM(d) in a three man midfield with two other players in front of him?

image.png.9dc82f88972f3b190d18c879635c7669.png

Edited by dejarik
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If I am ussing narrow formation (4-3-1-2) is it useful to play wider to create space in the middle??? I am playing vertical tiki-taka now. Because when I used narrower TI with narrow setup I´ve got problem to break teams down and create CCC.

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12 hours ago, ypsi said:

Is there anything that seems to be the meta in FM 20? I see many people saying this is a really easy FM, yet it's hardest I've played, no tactic seems to be working for me. 

If you started a separate thread, in which you would post a screenshot of your current tactic and explain what type of issues you were facing, we could help you understand what's potentially wrong in your tactic and how you can improve it. A lot of people have solved their tactical problems exactly in this way.

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16 minutes ago, milestobudapest said:

Has anybody had any luck with using a good CF in a 4-3-3? Which pairs and combinations do you think works best?

I’ve been using Pellegri as a CF(s) with an IW(a) and a W(a) in a 433. Have left all 3 roles as they are with no PI’s - just what is hard coded to the roles and I’m getting good returns from all 3 players.

I say it’s a 433. It’s technically more a 4123. My 3 midfielders are all on roles with no PI’s at all - even hardcoded. I wanted to create the simplest of tactics to allow my players to use their traits more and not get bogged down with loads of instructions. More of a test to see what would happen really. It’s been a revelation!

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18 hours ago, sidslayer said:

I’ve been using Pellegri as a CF(s) with an IW(a) and a W(a) in a 433. Have left all 3 roles as they are with no PI’s - just what is hard coded to the roles and I’m getting good returns from all 3 players.

I say it’s a 433. It’s technically more a 4123. My 3 midfielders are all on roles with no PI’s at all - even hardcoded. I wanted to create the simplest of tactics to allow my players to use their traits more and not get bogged down with loads of instructions. More of a test to see what would happen really. It’s been a revelation!

Could I ask you what your midfield combination and fullback set up is? I'm interested in what hardcoded roles you've put together.

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