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Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)

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Eh, sorry about that.  I had training on the brain thinking about player development and transfers.  :D

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Is there anything I can do when a player is unable to learn/unlearn a PPM? My coaches say the player is unlikely to develop the trait, so if I try this two or three times will it have any result?

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10 minutes ago, kingjericho said:

Is there anything I can do when a player is unable to learn/unlearn a PPM? My coaches say the player is unlikely to develop the trait, so if I try this two or three times will it have any result?

It depends how good your coaches are - a better coaches opinion will be more valid so if you've got the best coaching team on the planet there's no point trying. If you've not got that great coaches, give it a shot but it still won't have the best odds of success.

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With a mezzala looking to play wider than his starting position and the inside forward looking to play narrower do they work well together or do they end up occupying similar spaces?

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33 minutes ago, Hovis Dexter said:

With a mezzala looking to play wider than his starting position and the inside forward looking to play narrower do they work well together or do they end up occupying similar spaces?

Personally I don't like it, in the final third they're attacking the same area.  Overall the risk taking and some of the instructions could be good for the tactic but could be more consistent if you use a role like CM-S, BBM-S or CM-A with PI's to give different options and timings without attacking same area.

Edited by summatsupeer

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If you promise a player first team football, do you then have to give them playing time appropriate to their own squad status, or appropriate for a First Team player?

i.e. Jordan Veretout is on a Rotation contract and I promised him more playing time. Does he need Rotation playing time then, or First Team playing time?

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Just now, zlatanera said:

If you promise a player first team football, do you then have to give them playing time appropriate to their own squad status, or appropriate for a First Team player?

i.e. Jordan Veretout is on a Rotation contract and I promised him more playing time. Does he need Rotation playing time then, or First Team playing time?

He needs more playing time than you are currently giving him.

If he is on a Rotation status, he would be expecting to start approximately 40% of the competitive games, I assume he is complaining about first team football because he has been getting less than that. Give him a run of maybe 5 or 6 of the next ten games, then ease back to the 40% again if he seems happier. Always praise for performance over 7.0, growl at him (assertively) for performances below 6.6 should help his happiness.

If he isn't performing, when you play him, then don;t use him, at least you gave him a chance and if he complains again, just tell him that "Player A' has been performing better, but you need to see consistently low performances over about three games.

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4 minutes ago, Snorks said:

He needs more playing time than you are currently giving him.

If he is on a Rotation status, he would be expecting to start approximately 40% of the competitive games, I assume he is complaining about first team football because he has been getting less than that. Give him a run of maybe 5 or 6 of the next ten games, then ease back to the 40% again if he seems happier. Always praise for performance over 7.0, growl at him (assertively) for performances below 6.6 should help his happiness.

If he isn't performing, when you play him, then don;t use him, at least you gave him a chance and if he complains again, just tell him that "Player A' has been performing better, but you need to see consistently low performances over about three games.

Yes I know he needs playing time, and he's getting it so he will be happy - he performs outstandingly, far better than Milan Badelj despite attributes suggesting the opposite should be the case. I dropped Badelj to rotation so he wouldn't get unhappy. But my question is, does the promise go for the player's squad status or does he actually expect "First Team" football? i.e. if a backup player complains because I'm not rotating due to being knocked out of the cup, does he just need sort of 1/5 games (as an example level) or does he need to be a starter for multiple games in a row?

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23 hours ago, zlatanera said:

Yes I know he needs playing time, and he's getting it so he will be happy - he performs outstandingly, far better than Milan Badelj despite attributes suggesting the opposite should be the case. I dropped Badelj to rotation so he wouldn't get unhappy. But my question is, does the promise go for the player's squad status or does he actually expect "First Team" football? i.e. if a backup player complains because I'm not rotating due to being knocked out of the cup, does he just need sort of 1/5 games (as an example level) or does he need to be a starter for multiple games in a row?

I'm not sure how the game sees this to be fair. I tend to look at 'last 5 games' for a lot of stuff as this seems to be the way the AI does. 

Players and playing time I look at 'blocks' of five games. So review his appearances over the last five matches, if he is under/over his squad status, then I look at next five upcoming fixtures and work out which matches I can use him to redress the balance, so over ten games it should kinda work out. Every 20 or so matches, I review the entire squad, using tactics page, sorted by squad status and appearances.

Of course, a Rotation or Backup player, may be a personality thing, particularly if younger, where they feel they are better than the squad status suggests - in which case you may find that even on Backup status he will want 50% game time, in which case you are heading down the 'new contract or I leave' road.

I have an imbalance in my statuses in midfield at the moment - took over Liverpool, Keita, Henderson and Can as MCs already on First-Team, I bring in Milinkovic- Savic on Key Player as well. The squad screams 4231 as formation at me, which is my core tactic for this team, but I also have a 4123 DM Standard - just so I can get all four MCs enough playing time (Henderson makes his appearances up as DM). 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Snorks said:

I'm not sure how the game sees this to be fair. I tend to look at 'last 5 games' for a lot of stuff as this seems to be the way the AI does. 

Players and playing time I look at 'blocks' of five games. So review his appearances over the last five matches, if he is under/over his squad status, then I look at next five upcoming fixtures and work out which matches I can use him to redress the balance, so over ten games it should kinda work out. Every 20 or so matches, I review the entire squad, using tactics page, sorted by squad status and appearances.

Of course, a Rotation or Backup player, may be a personality thing, particularly if younger, where they feel they are better than the squad status suggests - in which case you may find that even on Backup status he will want 50% game time, in which case you are heading down the 'new contract or I leave' road.

I have an imbalance in my statuses in midfield at the moment - took over Liverpool, Keita, Henderson and Can as MCs already on First-Team, I bring in Milinkovic- Savic on Key Player as well. The squad screams 4231 as formation at me, which is my core tactic for this team, but I also have a 4123 DM Standard - just so I can get all four MCs enough playing time (Henderson makes his appearances up as DM).

I tend to take occasional glances through my dynamics (usually when my monthly save point comes up) as if I'm in Europe I'll usually manage to give everyone enough game time, and if I'm not then there may not even be 5 games in a month. Personality definitely seems to be a thing - the same sort of guy who refuses to tutor / be tutored tends also to be the one who complains despite being a backup (I had Messi averaging 8.05 over the last 5 games and Ousmane Dembele didn't accept that, for example, similar to how he also refused to be tutored by one of the greatest players to ever live).

I'm thinking perhaps as this isn't really a training or tactical question I should make it its own thread in the General Discussion to see if I can get a definitive answer.

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When I first signed Gabrielle Bellodi, just before he turned 18, I promised him first team playing time next year. He was on a Hot Prospect contract.

As that second season pushed on, he was in a few games, but apparently not enough. He started to complain a little. Well, he didn't complain to me, but the "promises" screen said he was starting to get concerned.

I ended up giving him 9 games in the league and 6 more in Cups. Five of those league games were as a sub. He was fine with that. I played him 2 out of 3 games, right after I noticed the complaint and there was no issue.

557701102_ScreenShot2018-08-23at7_50_15PM.thumb.png.23bc5511fd8d440cfc67009099e0a079.png

Also, the next season, he only played in one league game and he did not complain or get upset at all.

Edited by Joey Numbaz

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Question re: Tutoring

Will mental attributes besides the personality attributes improve with tutoring if it goes well? Things like Flair, Off the Ball, Concentration, Composure, etc.?

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31 minutes ago, Joey Numbaz said:

Question re: Tutoring

Will mental attributes besides the personality attributes improve with tutoring if it goes well? Things like Flair, Off the Ball, Concentration, Composure, etc.?

I'm 90% that the answer to that is no. You might see them increase if the role the player is training on them is meant to develop them and the player's personality improves, thus making them a better trainer though.

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1 hour ago, Joey Numbaz said:

Question re: Tutoring

Will mental attributes besides the personality attributes improve with tutoring if it goes well? Things like Flair, Off the Ball, Concentration, Composure, etc.?

Depends on the tutoring.

'On the pitch' tutoring will help, but again it is a balance between position being trained, position being played and the tutor's position. For On-field tutoring, I usually try and only use tutors that play the same position. 

Saying that, I am not sure quite how big or small an effect it has.

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7 hours ago, Joey Numbaz said:

Question re: Tutoring

Will mental attributes besides the personality attributes improve with tutoring if it goes well? Things like Flair, Off the Ball, Concentration, Composure, etc.?

 

6 hours ago, zlatanera said:

I'm 90% that the answer to that is no. You might see them increase if the role the player is training on them is meant to develop them and the player's personality improves, thus making them a better trainer though.

 

5 hours ago, Snorks said:

Depends on the tutoring.

'On the pitch' tutoring will help, but again it is a balance between position being trained, position being played and the tutor's position. For On-field tutoring, I usually try and only use tutors that play the same position. 

Saying that, I am not sure quite how big or small an effect it has.

No.

Tutoring only directly affects Determination and the hidden attributes which influence a player's Personality and Media Handling skills.

You could say Tutoring can indirectly impact visible attributes because players with a decent personality may train better and so be better equipped to develop those visible attributes, but Tutoring doesn't directly improve them.

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I am thinking about trying a narrow diamond formation but I am unsure about which roles to use in the centre of midfield, would a carrilero playing alongside a mezzala in front of a deep-lying playmaker make sense?

 

I realise that the tendency for both central roles to drift wide will ask a lot of my holding midfielder, but on the other hand that tendency to go wider is the reason I am looking at those roles in the first place.

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On 24/08/2018 at 19:18, herne79 said:

 

 

No.

Tutoring only directly affects Determination and the hidden attributes which influence a player's Personality and Media Handling skills.

You could say Tutoring can indirectly impact visible attributes because players with a decent personality may train better and so be better equipped to develop those visible attributes, but Tutoring doesn't directly improve them.

So what is the difference between on-field and off-field tutoring? Pros/cons of each?

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9 minutes ago, Snorks said:

So what is the difference between on-field and off-field tutoring? Pros/cons of each?

As well as changing a player's personality, on-field tutoring can pass down PPMs - very useful if, for example, you want to have Iniesta give his successor the same PPMs. Less useful if you accidentally use Pogba to pass on "Dwells On Ball".

Off-field tutoring only does personality.

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3 hours ago, zlatanera said:

As well as changing a player's personality, on-field tutoring can pass down PPMs - very useful if, for example, you want to have Iniesta give his successor the same PPMs. Less useful if you accidentally use Pogba to pass on "Dwells On Ball".

Off-field tutoring only does personality.

Cool. that's what  I thought thank you.

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9 hours ago, Snorks said:

So what is the difference between on-field and off-field tutoring? Pros/cons of each?

 

8 hours ago, zlatanera said:

As well as changing a player's personality, on-field tutoring can pass down PPMs - very useful if, for example, you want to have Iniesta give his successor the same PPMs. Less useful if you accidentally use Pogba to pass on "Dwells On Ball".

Off-field tutoring only does personality.

Worth mentioning as well there are some Traits which can only be passed along via tutoring eg., the keeper one to release ball quickly to start a counter attack.

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6 hours ago, zZzZzZzZzZzZzZz said:

Speaking of PPMs, has anyone written a comprehensive guide of which they are, what they do and what type of roles they are suitable for?

Don't get sucked into thinking that a certain role needs certain Traits.  Think more about your own system and whether the Traits would be useful (or not) for it.  If you go down the road of "what type of roles they are suitable for" you end up thinking each role has to have certain Traits.

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8 minutes ago, herne79 said:

Don't get sucked into thinking that a certain role needs certain Traits.  Think more about your own system and whether the Traits would be useful (or not) for it.  If you go down the road of "what type of roles they are suitable for" you end up thinking each role has to have certain Traits.

Spot on, a lot of people forget this I believe and think that PPM's are suited for the role rather than what the user wants from the player for the system they use. I touched upon this when I wrote about PPM's and gave examples of what I wanted from the player and why;

https://teaandbusquets.com/blog/footballs-kindgom-player-preferred-moves-ppms

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20 minutes ago, herne79 said:

 

Worth mentioning as well there are some Traits which can only be passed along via tutoring eg., the keeper one to release ball quickly to start a counter attack.

All PPM's can be taught now I believe, was changed in FM15. You can certainly train the releases ball quickly to start counter attacks without tutoring.

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1 hour ago, Cleon said:

All PPM's can be taught now I believe, was changed in FM15. You can certainly train the releases ball quickly to start counter attacks without tutoring.

Yeh I thought that as well but I seem to recall Seb saying something about this recently.  Edge of memory so could be confusing myself.

@Seb Wassell  Can you please confirm - are there still some Traits which can only be learned via Tutoring or can all now be learned by Trait training from coaches?

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3 minutes ago, herne79 said:

Yeh I thought that as well but I seem to recall Seb saying something about this recently.  Edge of memory so could be confusing myself.

@Seb Wassell  Can you please confirm - are there still some Traits which can only be learned via Tutoring or can all now be learned by Trait training from coaches?

Argues with officials is technically a PPM, isn't it? Don't think that can be taught. :)

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Hi,

I have a problem with winning home matches;-) My team - AD Horta - is worst on the league (spanish Tercera Division) - we have most worst atributes, media said, that we should finish last. In the middle od the season we're 5 points over relegation zone. But from 21 matches we've played so far, at home we've won just 2, and away - 5 (two draws overall).

 

Usually I play defensive/structures oraz very structures. Maybe I should play more offensive at home? Or more fluid?

I use usually 2-3 attack duties and 4 defend (3 on defence + DM).

Maybe You have any idea what should help winning (or event make more draws) at home? Thanks;-)

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1 hour ago, herne79 said:

Yeh I thought that as well but I seem to recall Seb saying something about this recently.  Edge of memory so could be confusing myself.

@Seb Wassell  Can you please confirm - are there still some Traits which can only be learned via Tutoring or can all now be learned by Trait training from coaches?

Yes some are unavailable for teaching.

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13 minutes ago, Seb Wassell said:

Yes some are unavailable for teaching.

Could you expand on which please? As I can teach players every single PPM on FM18 apart from argues with officials. And when was it supposedly changed back? FM15 was the first time SI changed it so PPM's could all be taught. Before that 

  • Curls ball
  • Stays back at all times
  • Dwells on ball
  • Tries to play way out of trouble
  • Gets into oppositions area
  • Arrives late in oppositions area
  • Argues with officials

Were the only ones from tutoring. But I can now teach all these apart from the last one. 

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Speaking of PPM's

If a striker was to have shoots with power AND places shots, would that just vary the shot selection  (Placed vs Power), or complement (I.E shot with Power aimed at corners)?

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14 hours ago, patpul said:

Hi,

I have a problem with winning home matches;-) My team - AD Horta - is worst on the league (spanish Tercera Division) - we have most worst atributes, media said, that we should finish last. In the middle od the season we're 5 points over relegation zone. But from 21 matches we've played so far, at home we've won just 2, and away - 5 (two draws overall).

 

Usually I play defensive/structures oraz very structures. Maybe I should play more offensive at home? Or more fluid?

I use usually 2-3 attack duties and 4 defend (3 on defence + DM).

Maybe You have any idea what should help winning (or event make more draws) at home? Thanks;-)

Defensive/structured with three Attack duties is where the problem lies from what you have said.

Defensive sits quite deep, while your Attack duty players will be more attacking under a Structured shape, therefore further up the pitch, opening space between your lines.

Try being a bit more aggressive and fluid with the tactic. Go Standard or Control and Fluid?

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9 hours ago, plcarlos said:

Speaking of PPM's

If a striker was to have shoots with power AND places shots, would that just vary the shot selection  (Placed vs Power), or complement (I.E shot with Power aimed at corners)?

On FM18 you can't have conflicting PPM's at the same time. Read this link to see which PPM's you can't have with other ones;

https://teaandbusquets.com/blog/footballs-kindgom-player-preferred-moves-ppms

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Hi Cleon,

I'm an old man, who have been playing this game, since the early Championship Manager days. I believe I know everything about the game, but I would appreciate if you could answer a few questions.... :-)

Role training: If you don't apply role training for a player, the game tells you that the player is being trained in his playing position. What does this mean? Let's say for instance, that you don't apply role training for a midfield player. Is he then being trained in all the attributes, that suits a midfielder? What strikes me, is that it doesn't add to his individual workload........ But if you train the player in a role that he is fully accomplished in, it DOES add to his workload. So what DOES he train, if you don't apply a specific role in training? I know you believe, that role training only makes the player train the attributes that goes with the specific role, but for me it would make more sense, if role training only made him accustomed to the role being trained, and not training the attributes that goes with the role. 

Thank you for your time, and for all your insightful writings.

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5 minutes ago, Balboas said:

Hi Cleon,

I'm an old man, who have been playing this game, since the early Championship Manager days. I believe I know everything about the game, but I would appreciate if you could answer a few questions.... :-)

Role training: If you don't apply role training for a player, the game tells you that the player is being trained in his playing position. What does this mean? Let's say for instance, that you don't apply role training for a midfield player. Is he then being trained in all the attributes, that suits a midfielder? What strikes me, is that it doesn't add to his individual workload........ But if you train the player in a role that he is fully accomplished in, it DOES add to his workload. So what DOES he train, if you don't apply a specific role in training? I know you believe, that role training only makes the player train the attributes that goes with the specific role, but for me it would make more sense, if role training only made him accustomed to the role being trained, and not training the attributes that goes with the role. 

Thank you for your time, and for all your insightful writings.

The player trains the basic attributes for his natural position when no role training is selected. So strikers would be finishing, composure, off the ball. 

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Can anything substitute tutoring, when it comes to increasing Determination? I have a player who wouldn't sign unless given the First Team status, but in order to unlock his full potential, he probably needs better Determination. From a Wonderkid, he's decreased to a 4 stars in current and potential ability within some 6 months of arrival. The club has superb training facilities, but his Determination is 12. Is it killing his progress with no chance of me doing anything?

Edited by Bunkerossian

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If you have a squad personality of very determined (and I've noticed this w/team of professional too, I think, mine goes back and forth), players will be influenced by the team and increase determination, sometimes with massive, quick, improvements.

Just looking over my squad, I had a player go from 9->12 in two months. Numerous examples of players making big improvements, even without tutoring.

Of course, that's not an easy fix. You've got to bring in a bunch of senior players with high determination to get this effect.

And is 12 determination all that bad? It's not like it's 4. I mean obviously you want it higher, but if he's got ambition and professionalism 12 for determination should not be a deal breaker.

Edited by Joey Numbaz

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14 minutes ago, Joey Numbaz said:

If you have a squad personality of very determined (and I've noticed this w/team of professional too, I think, mine goes back and forth), players will be influenced by the team and increase determination, sometimes with massive, quick, improvements.

Just looking over my squad, I had a player go from 9->12 in two months. Numerous examples of players making big improvements, even without tutoring.

Of course, that's not an easy fix. You've got to bring in a bunch of senior players with high determination to get this effect.

And is 12 determination all that bad? It's not like it's 4. I mean obviously you want it higher, but if he's got ambition and professionalism 12 for determination should not be a deal breaker.

Team personality is Determined, but the player hasn't really grown in his attributes. One player with 19 Determination has been growing, meanwhile. The player in question has a Balanced personality.

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Yeah if he's balanced then he defnitely doesn't have great professionalism and ambition. I think you are going to have to tutor him somehow. EDIT ... and/or get him first team games.

Edited by Joey Numbaz

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6 minutes ago, Joey Numbaz said:

Yeah if he's balanced then he defnitely doesn't have great professionalism and ambition. I think you are going to have to tutor him somehow. EDIT ... and/or get him first team games.

He's played quite a few games in the 6 or so months. Done well, but he's not developing. Might as well say the big, missing info: it's Lautaro Martinez. Scouts turned up with some Racing youth strikers, I went rummaging through their entire team, and saw he was in the main team. Could a lot of goals affect his attributes in a positive way?

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Here's an example, gets the "Squad's general character has had a positive effect lately" on his training report. He did start tutoring in July, but he made plenty of progress before that. The screenshot shows March - August.

He went from 9->12 March through May, and he's gone from 12->13 between July-August.

Screen Shot 2018-08-27 at 3.34.52 PM.png

Edited by Joey Numbaz

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@Bunkerossian do you have available tutors? I see you mentioned him demanding First Team status, but if he's young and has low enough rep (compared to the tutors) just drop it to Hot Prospect whilst he's being tutored and keep playing him.

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8 minutes ago, zlatanera said:

@Bunkerossian do you have available tutors? I see you mentioned him demanding First Team status, but if he's young and has low enough rep (compared to the tutors) just drop it to Hot Prospect whilst he's being tutored and keep playing him.

The best Determination striker doesn't really like to tutor anyone. He's a grumpy- Resilient personality.

Edited by Bunkerossian

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1 hour ago, Bunkerossian said:

He's played quite a few games in the 6 or so months. Done well, but he's not developing. Might as well say the big, missing info: it's Lautaro Martinez. Scouts turned up with some Racing youth strikers, I went rummaging through their entire team, and saw he was in the main team. Could a lot of goals affect his attributes in a positive way? 

Game time (At appropriate level) will help him develop, Other than that, IMHO Personality counts more - Most of my balanced young players have complained, and not developed. After I tutored them to the range of Resolute-Professional (Squad personality) they develop better, even those who's determintation has declined during tutoring.

It's also worth noting that you can sign players on one level (First team) and chane the squad status, to tutor - I've done that a lot on my LLM Saves.

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2 hours ago, Bunkerossian said:

The best Determination striker doesn't really like to tutor anyone. He's a grumpy- Resilient personality.

:( hate those. Sorry dude. As everyone says, best bet is to just surround the prospect with the right sort of people and hope then.

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7 minutes ago, Armistice said:

So... Is formation your defensive shape?

No, it's your starting shape. But starting shape doesn't equal defensive shape. The roles and duties determine this.

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When you train somebody in a role you are training them in the attributes associated with that role so I invariably train strikers as complete forwards, midfielders as roaming playmakers and full backs as complete wing backs. I feel that this method should result in better rounded players and is especially important for youngsters. My question is what to do about players in other roles. If I train, say,  a natural central defender as a defensive midfielder in the role of a roaming playmaker but continue to play him as a central defender will his performance deteriorate because he is not being trained in his playing position?

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15 hours ago, Hovis Dexter said:

When you train somebody in a role you are training them in the attributes associated with that role so I invariably train strikers as complete forwards, midfielders as roaming playmakers and full backs as complete wing backs. I feel that this method should result in better rounded players and is especially important for youngsters. My question is what to do about players in other roles. If I train, say,  a natural central defender as a defensive midfielder in the role of a roaming playmaker but continue to play him as a central defender will his performance deteriorate because he is not being trained in his playing position?

Attributes-wise it shouldn't, unless the CD attributes are dropping due to not being trained. Possibly affects performance if his mentals are changing - ie: thinking like an RP when being asked to play DC  - but  I wouldn't know for sure.

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