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Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)

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7 minutes ago, Deserter28 said:

I have seen people on Cleon's training thread talking about how they have improved someone's current ability by 10-15 points. I thought CA was a hidden attribute in terms of numbers, and you could only see the star rating (from 1-5). Am I missing something or are they using a game editor or similar?

They're using an in game editor to view the hidden numbers.

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Hi,

Some questions about unlearning a trait.

1) Is it alway possible, or some player no matter how longwe ask them tehy will never unlearn it?

2) How long does it take?

In my current save i asked Gedson Fernandes to unlearn the trait to shoot from distance, and after one season it still have that trait! 

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34 minutes ago, Keyzer Soze said:

Hi,

Some questions about unlearning a trait.

1) Is it alway possible, or some player no matter how longwe ask them tehy will never unlearn it?

2) How long does it take?

In my current save i asked Gedson Fernandes to unlearn the trait to shoot from distance, and after one season it still have that trait! 

@Seb Wassell Would it be fair to assume the same principles apply to unlearning a Trait as they do to learning one?

@Keyzer Soze In your save is Gedson still a young player or are you many years in the future and he's ageing?  (Age plays a part in Trait learning - it becomes progressively harder as players age).

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@herne79

Gedson is still young, i've just start season 2018/19.

I got him the whole season unlearning the shoot from distance trait, and by the end of the first season he was still unlearning. He got plenty of game time (don't know if this influence the outcome), because i'm doing a save with Benfica playing with many youth players, so he play around 40 games in the first season.

By the end of the first season, i stop him from unlearning that trait, because i was spending 66% of the train time with that, something that i really dont understand how unlearning a trait can occupy a player train so much (but that's another issue).

I'm playing the FMT version of the game, in a IPAD, don't know if the learning/unlearning system works differently from the full fat version.

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1 hour ago, herne79 said:

@Seb Wassell Would it be fair to assume the same principles apply to unlearning a Trait as they do to learning one?

Roughly, yes.

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2 hours ago, Deserter28 said:

If I have a player being tutored, am I right in thinking I can't also get him learning a new trait?

 

That's correct. Unless he learns it from his tutor, which is hit or miss. You need to select the 'help out his game option' when asking the tutor.

Also, the tutor can learn new PPMs while tutoring either.

Edited by Joey Numbaz

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15 hours ago, Deserter28 said:

I have seen people on Cleon's training thread talking about how they have improved someone's current ability by 10-15 points. I thought CA was a hidden attribute in terms of numbers, and you could only see the star rating (from 1-5). Am I missing something or are they using a game editor or similar?

Either using an in game editor or guessing based on the number of points they've seen a player improve. A bit like when I listed which attributes changed during the season, sometimes seeing around 10-15 increases across the board. Logic tells you that you've likely gained atleast a 10-15 CA increase based on which attributes actually changed.

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Thanks Joey / Cleon - at the risk of monopolising (I am trying to make a real go of youth development this time out which I don't think I've ever done effectively before) - I have a striker, and I want to improve his strength, heading and off the ball attributes. I don't particularly want him to develop as a target man however. Am I better off focussing on improving the individual attributes, or training him as a target man just to get the attributes up?

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11 minutes ago, Deserter28 said:

Thanks Joey / Cleon - at the risk of monopolising (I am trying to make a real go of youth development this time out which I don't think I've ever done effectively before) - I have a striker, and I want to improve his strength, heading and off the ball attributes. I don't particularly want him to develop as a target man however. Am I better off focussing on improving the individual attributes, or training him as a target man just to get the attributes up?

You can do both. Train him in a role category that covers the attributes you want him to learn. 

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43 minutes ago, Deserter28 said:

Thanks Joey / Cleon - at the risk of monopolising (I am trying to make a real go of youth development this time out which I don't think I've ever done effectively before) - I have a striker, and I want to improve his strength, heading and off the ball attributes. I don't particularly want him to develop as a target man however. Am I better off focussing on improving the individual attributes, or training him as a target man just to get the attributes up?

 

31 minutes ago, Cleon said:

You can do both. Train him in a role category that covers the attributes you want him to learn. 

Exactly as Cleon says.  The names given to this individual role training are just labels used to define a collection of attributes to develop.  So you're not training a "Target Man" (or whatever), you're developing a set of attributes which just happen to have been labelled as "Target Man".

When developing players and setting individual role training, focus on the attributes you want to develop - not the name of the role :thup:.

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The perfect thread for me!  STOOPID question and scared it would be flamed!  here it goes.

In FM 2016, in english leagues (LLM to championship), i developped a little tactic that was a 4-2-1-3 that was laid-out like this:

wingbacks on attack and support (if attack right side, support would be left side)

2 central defenders on defend

1 anchor man on the side of the attack wingback and a DLP on the other side

midfielder was box-to-box

2 interior attackers on support

1 poacher (if it got the speed but no jump reach) or 1 target man on attack

team instructions were always like this: COUNTER, Structured, slightly higher defensive line, more direct passing and early cross.  putting the midfieleder, wingmans and poacher/target man with highest closing down possible.  The entire defense line always got "less pressing" in individual instructions.

It usually gave me a "not excessive" number of faults but giving me about 11 to 14 shots with 3 to 4 good scoring chances. and giving the opponents (even better ones then me), never more then 10 to 12 shots/game.  With this tactic, i managed to lose very few games each seasons and secure lots of end-game draws because of determination.  I know it can be "boring" football (i.e. not spectacular but i am a wimp who hate risk taking :/ )

 

my question is this: the new mezzala role looks interesting but the few tests i made in friendlies weren't conclusive.  is it a good solution to replace the box-to-box by the new mezzala role or was the former the good solution??? (or is there an even better solution???)

 

sorry for the lenghty stoopid question...

rien102

Edited by Rien102
typos

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On 1/16/2018 at 19:17, Joey Numbaz said:

Then you are saying these are bugs? @Nic Madden @Seb Wassell @herne79

Seems to me like the cutoff is 68 gets a rating, 70 does not (unless the player scores or gets an assist). I haven't been able to find a sub in all of my 17 games so far that came in at 69.

Screen Shot 2018-01-16 at 2.07.46 PM.png

Screen Shot 2018-01-16 at 2.07.31 PM.png

Screen Shot 2018-01-16 at 2.07.10 PM.png

Screen Shot 2018-01-16 at 2.13.20 PM.png

Hey Joey Numbaz,

I done some more research here and it was in fact changed this cycle to make the balance better for other areas of the game and this has now changed so that if a player does not play at least 1/4 of the match, they will not get a rating and this in turn will not flag them up in any Post Match Analysis as a player that contributed very little to the match. So this was infact changed this cycle from the previous 15 minutes, which can be debated of course and we have logged this to continue the debate to get the right balance overall here.

Reviewing your screenshots here and doing further testing, if a player was to make a vital contribution to the match, like Galloway in your screenshot, like score a goal, then the average rating will be displayed if the player has played a certain amount of minutes.

I hope this helps answer your very good question and observation here.

Cheers,

Nic

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@Nic Madden Not really a question gnn7tFk.png

Found it amusing while browsing this thread and had a dejavu moment since I bid for this kid 10 min ago

Edited by Fragnat

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On 1/19/2018 at 12:37, Nic Madden said:

Hey Joey Numbaz,

I done some more research here and it was in fact changed this cycle to make the balance better for other areas of the game and this has now changed so that if a player does not play at least 1/4 of the match, they will not get a rating and this in turn will not flag them up in any Post Match Analysis as a player that contributed very little to the match. So this was infact changed this cycle from the previous 15 minutes, which can be debated of course and we have logged this to continue the debate to get the right balance overall here.

Reviewing your screenshots here and doing further testing, if a player was to make a vital contribution to the match, like Galloway in your screenshot, like score a goal, then the average rating will be displayed if the player has played a certain amount of minutes.

I hope this helps answer your very good question and observation here.

Cheers,

Nic

Thanks for the confirmation Nic!

Does this mean players playing less than 1/4 of the match do not get any credit in terms of 'playing time' for development? Or is this strictly an analysis change?

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 @Cleon ocould you give me advice on how to setup my general training focus, focus intensity, match preparation, individual focus and individual intensity for my senior team, U21s and my U18s?

I am managing Shooting Stars (my dad's team) in the Nigerian Professional League. We have around average training facilities and minimal youth facilities.

Whenever I set my individual focuses, I set my youth players to a heavy intensity keeping the general focus intensity to low and add an spefic attribute focus if needed but the player always complains about the workload and if the player is unhappy with the workload they don't develop as well but I don't want to lower the intensity until they have just about reached their potential.

Also how much does a player's unhappiness about the workload decline their development because I have seen many people that have players unhappy about the workload and still have training performance to the best level.

Sorry for all the questions this is not my part of expertise in FM

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1 hour ago, Fmplaya said:

 @Cleon ocould you give me advice on how to setup my general training focus, focus intensity, match preparation, individual focus and individual intensity for my senior team, U21s and my U18s?

I am managing Shooting Stars (my dad's team) in the Nigerian Professional League. We have around average training facilities and minimal youth facilities.

Whenever I set my individual focuses, I set my youth players to a heavy intensity keeping the general focus intensity to low and add an spefic attribute focus if needed but the player always complains about the workload and if the player is unhappy with the workload they don't develop as well but I don't want to lower the intensity until they have just about reached their potential.

Also how much does a player's unhappiness about the workload decline their development because I have seen many people that have players unhappy about the workload and still have training performance to the best level.

Sorry for all the questions this is not my part of expertise in FM

Just send your save and I’ll play it for you 😂 

In all seriousness though, check out the training thread I did and then make your own mind up. There is no right or wrong, it depends on what you want.

 

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On 1/20/2018 at 03:24, Fragnat said:

@Nic Madden Not really a question gnn7tFk.png

Found it amusing while browsing this thread and had a dejavu moment since I bid for this kid 10 min ago

:applause:Thanks Fragnat for sharing. I think my newgen has more pace than I do :lol:

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17 hours ago, Joey Numbaz said:

Thanks for the confirmation Nic!

Does this mean players playing less than 1/4 of the match do not get any credit in terms of 'playing time' for development? Or is this strictly an analysis change?

Changes were made to help benefit Analysis, however I will have to check further in regards to playing time for development? The changes are only match ratings, so the playing time is still calculated and will still factor from my understanding, however @Seb Wassell maybe best to answer this question.

Cheers,

Nic

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23 hours ago, Joey Numbaz said:

Thanks for the confirmation Nic!

Does this mean players playing less than 1/4 of the match do not get any credit in terms of 'playing time' for development? Or is this strictly an analysis change?

 

5 hours ago, Nic Madden said:

Changes were made to help benefit Analysis, however I will have to check further in regards to playing time for development? The changes are only match ratings, so the playing time is still calculated and will still factor from my understanding, however @Seb Wassell maybe best to answer this question.

Cheers,

Nic

EdL has confirmed in this thread the change from 15 mins to 22 mins is a mistake and will be changed back to 15 mins in patch 18.3.

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@herne79 @Nic Madden @Joey Numbaz - Development: There is no minimum number of minutes that must be played for development purposes. Match experience is based on actual minutes played, so every minute counts. There is a bonus for playing 45 minutes or more.

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Does anyone use defensive full backs or defensive centre backs, or even full backs on defend duty? I don’t remember ever reading about any of them being used.

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8 hours ago, Hovis Dexter said:

Does anyone use defensive full backs or defensive centre backs, or even full backs on defend duty? I don’t remember ever reading about any of them being used.

All the time. My back 4 are all DCB(d) and FB (d). I'm a non-league team and just need my defenders to hoof the ball up the pitch, no nonsense like.

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3 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

All the time. My back 4 are all DCB(d) and FB (d). I'm a non-league team and just need my defenders to hoof the ball up the pitch, no nonsense like.

Thanks for that. I'll give it a go. I'm scoring goals at the moment but leaking even more at the back. Hopefully this will help.

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3 hours ago, Hovis Dexter said:

Thanks for that. I'll give it a go. I'm scoring goals at the moment but leaking even more at the back. Hopefully this will help.

I had that problem - individually all my defenders are poor quality. I solved the problem by changing my whole philosophy - if the individual defenders are poor, defend in numbers. So I've gone 4-2-3-1 with a DM or BWM(d) screening the back, and the other players all on support roles in a counter-attacking philosophy. I basically means 10 behind the ball making us hard to break down, and one speed-merchant up top to chase after those hoofs from the back.

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21 hours ago, Seb Wassell said:

@herne79 @Nic Madden @Joey Numbaz - Development: There is no minimum number of minutes that must be played for development purposes. Match experience is based on actual minutes played, so every minute counts. There is a bonus for playing 45 minutes or more.

Thanks seb.  Has it always been like this or was that a recent change?

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3 minutes ago, herne79 said:

Thanks seb.  Has it always been like this or was that a recent change?

It will have been like this for at least 2 versions.

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Is there any limitation for the score an retrained individual can have for a position (e.g. 14 score for a CM), irrelevant to its Versatility score?

I'm having trouble getting Alexandru Cicaldau (FC Viitorul) retrained as CM. Been training him for 4 seasons so far and he's only Accomplished, rather than Natural.

I don't want to check his Versatility score because it might ruin my experience, but in 4 seasons he should surely be Natural in a position he has been trained in and has attributes for.

Edited by Kelvinu

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19 minutes ago, Kelvinu said:

Is there any limitation for the score an retrained individual can have for a position (e.g. 14 score for a CM), irrelevant to its Versatility score?

I'm having trouble getting Alexandru Cicaldau (FC Viitorul) retrained as CM. Been training him for 4 seasons so far and he's only Accomplished, rather than Natural.

I don't want to check his Versatility score because it might ruin my experience, but in 4 seasons he should surely be Natural in a position he has been trained in and has attributes for.

There are limits but are based on a variety of factors.  CA is one of them - positional familiarity is part of the CA calculation so if the player is already at/near their maximum CA it won't improve.  Or, worse, some of his attributes will be reduced in order to allow for the additional position.

But he's already Accomplished.  That'll be absolutely fine for your player and you wouldn't notice any difference in his ability compared to Natural :thup:.

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25 minutes ago, Kelvinu said:

Is there any limitation for the score an retrained individual can have for a position (e.g. 14 score for a CM), irrelevant to its Versatility score?

I'm having trouble getting Alexandru Cicaldau (FC Viitorul) retrained as CM. Been training him for 4 seasons so far and he's only Accomplished, rather than Natural.

I don't want to check his Versatility score because it might ruin my experience, but in 4 seasons he should surely be Natural in a position he has been trained in and has attributes for.

Yes, there is a limit on how far a player can progress in a position based on a variety of factors (age, Versatility, position, attributes, suitability for new position, etc.). Achieving Natural (18-20) is tough, Accomplished (15-17) is a normal and perfectly acceptable ceiling for many players.

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4 hours ago, Seb Wassell said:

Yes, there is a limit on how far a player can progress in a position based on a variety of factors (age, Versatility, position, attributes, suitability for new position, etc.). Achieving Natural (18-20) is tough, Accomplished (15-17) is a normal and perfectly acceptable ceiling for many players.

In view of this comment  this would seem to be really stupid question, but am I correct to deduce from the comment that I no longer need to put players in their natural position to get the best performance but will get just as good results if I ensure that everybody is at least accomplished in the position that they are playing?

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4 hours ago, Seb Wassell said:

Yes, there is a limit on how far a player can progress in a position based on a variety of factors (age, Versatility, position, attributes, suitability for new position, etc.). Achieving Natural (18-20) is tough, Accomplished (15-17) is a normal and perfectly acceptable ceiling for many players.

 

4 hours ago, herne79 said:

There are limits but are based on a variety of factors.  CA is one of them - positional familiarity is part of the CA calculation so if the player is already at/near their maximum CA it won't improve.  Or, worse, some of his attributes will be reduced in order to allow for the additional position.

But he's already Accomplished.  That'll be absolutely fine for your player and you wouldn't notice any difference in his ability compared to Natural :thup:.

 

Thanks Seb and herne.

He did improve a lot, I guess there must been space for fully learning the position.

However, I want the same guy (Cicaldau) to learn some DLP-specific PPMs. As he's not Natural, he doesn't seem to learn those (dictate tempo, come deep) - as I see it, because he might be considered a winger. It is true?

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14 hours ago, Kelvinu said:

Thanks Seb and herne.

He did improve a lot, I guess there must been space for fully learning the position.

However, I want the same guy (Cicaldau) to learn some DLP-specific PPMs. As he's not Natural, he doesn't seem to learn those (dictate tempo, come deep) - as I see it, because he might be considered a winger. It is true?

No problem. Him not being able to learn those Player Traits (formally PPMs) should not have anything to do with him being Accomplished over Natural. Player Traits do depend on a fair few factors however, such as age, number of traits already in place, suitability for trait (attributes), coach responsible, player's aptitude for learning further traits, etc. I suspect he will fall short on one of these criteria.

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15 hours ago, Hovis Dexter said:

In view of this comment  this would seem to be really stupid question, but am I correct to deduce from the comment that I no longer need to put players in their natural position to get the best performance but will get just as good results if I ensure that everybody is at least accomplished in the position that they are playing?

There is a small difference but you won't really notice it providing the player's attributes are suited.

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A couple of questions regarding youth team coaching.

I have both youth teams copy my senior teams training schedules but every player i put in my U23s complains about the training workload. When i check them they all have 'Very Heavy' as there individual training workload even when they have no additional focus, no trait being learned and only 'Average' intensity level. I have no idea why this is happening, anyone have an idea if i have missed something?

Because of this I've put all of these players in my senior team and just make them available to play for the U23s. Will this have a negative impact on there development or is senior/youth training only different based on the ability of the respective coaches?

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player seems to be stuck with "individual training assigned not beneficial"

he's a ST. i set him up to work on his balance i think, and thats when the message came up. I since then changed additional focus to finshing, dribbling, heading; i even removed addtional focus and position/role; but the message doesnt go away. i even simmed a couple days and still the message is there; even without any indivdual training selected.

is this a bug? does the message go away after a while?

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hey liamc92,

(correct me if im wrong anyone)

basically, your senior squad and u23 share the same training schdule, the only thing thats different is the days off. so you may want to give your u23 some days off. the workload and foucs would still be the same but the u23 will have some diffrent days off than the first team.

also i think because for the most part u23 players have less stamina and natural fitness stats, they'll probably need a little less training than the first team.

and lastly, u put all your u23 in the first team and asked if it was OK. unless you are trying to do something out the ordinary for a particular reason and understand what your doing, there is a problem with that. the problem is you are swamping your 1st team's coaches. basically your 1st team coaches training alot of players and the work load (for the coaches) will increase and training wont be as good. so yea u might wanna keep em in the u23 team that way you dont swamp your 1st team coaches, and give better training overall to everyone..

also i recommend you google "football manager 2018 guide training". the football manager guide covers alot of the basics, if you type "training" along side it and google it, you should see a link to the part that talks about training, in the first couple results - less navigating that way  ;-)

good luck mate... cheers

PS 

please some1 respond to my question above, thanks yall...

 

 

Edited by qDizzy

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I shove my kids into the first team or U23 squad to benefit from the extra training, and keep all my players on low General Training and max out their individual training, so all are on Heavy.

Due to the low General schedule I don't get too many injuries, so there are no physical cons. Some do, however, complain incessantly about the workload. What this tells me is that these kids are unprofessional or unambitious - in other words they will never develop sufficiently. So basically their moaning helps me decide to offload them and keep with the ones who will be my best long-term assets.

I will pay attention to my assman's "individual training assigned not beneficial" and switch to another attribute - once. If it keeps coming up I'll ignore it.

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intresting.. 

2 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

I shove my kids into the first team or U23 squad to benefit from the extra training, and keep all my players on low General Training and max out their individual training, so all are on Heavy.

intresting...

i'm sure its not ideal in all cases (number of coaches available at the club, mainly) but very intresting. so would you prefer having a youngster with a coach thats pretty good with everything but OK with "working with youngster" -or- OK with everything but really good "working with youngster" ?

thanks phnompenhandy

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3 hours ago, qDizzy said:

intresting.. 

intresting...

i'm sure its not ideal in all cases (number of coaches available at the club, mainly) but very intresting. so would you prefer having a youngster with a coach thats pretty good with everything but OK with "working with youngster" -or- OK with everything but really good "working with youngster" ?

thanks phnompenhandy

My careers are always Youth Academy challenges whereby my only incoming players come up from my youth intake. Thus, I look for  WWY in my coaches and when designing my self as manager have 20 for WWY and naff all for all the other attributes.

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25 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

My careers are always Youth Academy challenges whereby my only incoming players come up from my youth intake. Thus, I look for  WWY in my coaches and when designing my self as manager have 20 for WWY and naff all for all the other attributes.

LoL @ i had to look up the word "naff" as im from "Merica", had to make sure it wasnt a typo... (learn something new everyday :)

either way i came across some of your other posts while looking for "what does a data analyst do really?" - bumbed into a thread about staff and youth teams... got the mentioning about WWY and stuff...

i was literally going to edit my post to let u know never mind on answering my question, cuz i read some of your other posts and stuff...  

but whaddya know   :-D

cheers mate, good luck gaming... and thanks again

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Is it intended that determination and work rate increase after players are warned/criticised for poor performances?

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6 minutes ago, YasoKuul said:

Is it intended that determination and work rate increase after players are warned/criticised for poor performances?

This will not happen every time, but yes this is an intended outcome. It can represent a positive response to your criticism.

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22 minutes ago, Seb Wassell said:

This will not happen every time, but yes this is an intended outcome. It can represent a positive response to your criticism.

Are there any similar outcomes when you criticise training levels?

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Would a False 9 average a deeper heat map position off the ball in a more fluid system than in a rigid system, in the same tactical setup? I'm about to create a 4-3-3 system around that. What I'm aiming is dropping my guy as near as the CMs as possible, so I could create a rhombus in the midfield at times.

Also, as been discussed again and again, would a TQ be deeper than an F9, in the same tactical setup?

Edited by Kelvinu
wording

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17 hours ago, qDizzy said:

hey liamc92,

(correct me if im wrong anyone)

basically, your senior squad and u23 share the same training schdule, the only thing thats different is the days off. so you may want to give your u23 some days off. the workload and foucs would still be the same but the u23 will have some diffrent days off than the first team.

 

 

Ahhhh I had no idea about the days off, thanks so much. I was only giving players a day off after a match and because the U23s were playing much fewer games they ended up with barely any days off.

Will i have to manually pick the rest days every 4 weeks or can i set it up so they follow the same rolling rota?

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On 25/01/2018 at 16:25, Kelvinu said:

Would a False 9 average a deeper heat map position off the ball in a more fluid system than in a rigid system, in the same tactical setup? I'm about to create a 4-3-3 system around that. What I'm aiming is dropping my guy as near as the CMs as possible, so I could create a rhombus in the midfield at times.

Also, as been discussed again and again, would a TQ be deeper than an F9, in the same tactical setup?

For the first one, just compare the mentality bar in the false nine's PI screen with a fluid and a structured team shape. When the mentality is lower, he will position himself ever so slightly deeper. Another view for the mentality is to consider what he does when he gets the ball. If he is on a higher mentality due to the team shape, a F9 is more likely to drive forward with the ball and look for a shot or a killer pass, with a lower PI he is more likely to pass it back to a supporting midfielder.

Just remember that small differences in the mentality bar will have pretty marginal effects in the game.

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I used to have images that I have now lost or possibly deleted from an old thread (can't remember who by).

But it was regarding the mentalities and passing distances. I was looking for more information and possible confirmation if it still applies or not.

From memory it said the more attacking mentalities would employ short passing from the back and more direct passing further up the pitch by default. Then the opposite for more defensive formations, long balls from the back and short passing further up the pitch. Do these variations in passing distance for each mentality still apply?

Thanks

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Sorry if it's already been asked, but when tutoring, what is the difference between "I'd like you to tutor x as I feel you can help improve his game" and "I think it would be beneficial if you could take x under your wing and mentor him off the pitch"

Is the second one more mental than skills based?  I'm playing FM16.

Cheers!

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11 hours ago, AndyEs said:

I used to have images that I have now lost or possibly deleted from an old thread (can't remember who by).

But it was regarding the mentalities and passing distances. I was looking for more information and possible confirmation if it still applies or not.

From memory it said the more attacking mentalities would employ short passing from the back and more direct passing further up the pitch by default. Then the opposite for more defensive formations, long balls from the back and short passing further up the pitch. Do these variations in passing distance for each mentality still apply?

Thanks

Yup still applies.

57 minutes ago, ExeChris said:

Sorry if it's already been asked, but when tutoring, what is the difference between "I'd like you to tutor x as I feel you can help improve his game" and "I think it would be beneficial if you could take x under your wing and mentor him off the pitch"

Is the second one more mental than skills based?  I'm playing FM16.

Cheers!

The first option will attempt to pass on the Tutor's personality and one (or more) of the Tutor's Traits (PPMs).  The second will attempt to pass on the Tutor's personality only.

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