Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)

[Dr. Hook]

1 minute ago, Repsalty said:

Ok, here I have a pretty stupid question: What is vertical space (it's in the description for moving into channels)? Is it space like left to right or front to back?

Vertical space is front to back, horizontal space is left-right- the channel runner looks to make a forward run into the "channel" between the CB and FB.

[Repsalty]

1 minute ago, Dr. Hook said:

Vertical space is front to back, horizontal space is left-right- the channel runner looks to make a forward run into the "channel" between the CB and FB.

Wait this is confusing why does a channel runner run into a channel between de CB and the FB wouldn't that be a horizontal run? Wouldn't he want to run in a channel between a CB and a DM or CM?

[Dr. Hook]

9 minutes ago, Repsalty said:

Wait this is confusing why does a channel runner run into a channel between de CB and the FB wouldn't that be a horizontal run? Wouldn't he want to run in a channel between a CB and a DM or CM?

The channel is the vertical space that is imagined as running in between where the FB would be positioned and the centerback, with the idea that the runner causes confusion for the backs as to who should mark him as he is narrower than a winger would be but wider than a standard center forward. It is horizontal in one sense, but the movement into the channel typically starts with the transition into to attack so it isn't as if he's at the edge of the box and moving laterally.

[herne79]

@Dr. Hook @Repsalty

Doc, you should add that to the FAQs sticky.

Oh wait...

[aderow]

If I were to give a player the 'more risky passes' PI, would it be nullified by the 'retain possession' TI? Or would the 'retain possession' PI only impact players without the said PI?

Edited December 9, 2016 by aderow

[HUNT3R]

4 minutes ago, aderow said:

If I were to give a player the 'more risky passes' PI, would it be nullified by the 'retain possession' TI? Or would the 'retain possession' PI only impact players without the said PI?

Retain Possession will reduce risky passes for everyone. By adding the More Risky Passes PI, you're increasing risky passes for that player, so essentially just negating the effect of the TI for that player only.

So, in short : Fewer risky passes (Retain Possession) + More Risky Passes = default setting for role

[Repsalty]

7 hours ago, herne79 said:

@Dr. Hook @Repsalty

Doc, you should add that to the FAQs sticky.

Oh wait...

My bad.

8 hours ago, Dr. Hook said:

The channel is the vertical space that is imagined as running in between where the FB would be positioned and the centerback, with the idea that the runner causes confusion for the backs as to who should mark him as he is narrower than a winger would be but wider than a standard center forward. It is horizontal in one sense, but the movement into the channel typically starts with the transition into to attack so it isn't as if he's at the edge of the box and moving laterally.

Even more thanks for explaining it to me and not simply referring to the FAQ

I've read it a couple of times and I think I'm starting to understand it, I guess I'll just have to try and let it sink in. Anyway many thanks for the explanation!

[yipster1986]

4 minutes ago, Repsalty said:

My bad.

Even more thanks for explaining it to me and not simply referring to the FAQ

I've read it a couple of times and I think I'm starting to understand it, I guess I'll just have to try and let it sink in. Anyway many thanks for the explanation!

I'm also having trouble understanding exactly what it does, even after reading the explanation multiple times. I'm looking for a graphical representation to help me understand.

[happyhoopy]

35 minutes ago, yipster1986 said:

I'm also having trouble understanding exactly what it does, even after reading the explanation multiple times. I'm looking for a graphical representation to help me understand.

See attached - channel/half-space

[the--dud]

I've noticed something in FM17 that I can't quite figure out. Across several different teams now when I play Control or Attacking with Fluid shape and "slightly wider" (usually a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 with DM) I struggle with possession. I also have high or normal tempo with short or mixed passing. However, if I set my defensive line to slightly deeper (one level below normal) I suddenly get much more possession and play much better football.

I've been reading Cleon's "how to" guides and I wonder if I've "accidentally" created counter-attacking tactics?   Traditionally speaking on attacking setups aren't you supposed to push your backline up and not down?

I guess my real question is, why does it work to have a lower defensive line on an attacking formation/tactics? It seems illogical to me but I suspect it works as a counter-attacking setup? I've been watching my games and my teams do very often break forward with pace, especially by utilizing the wings

Here's a recent example of one of my tactics:

(It says mentality attacking in the screenshot but I usually vary between that and control depending on who I play. If I play very good teams I pull the AMC down to DM.)

Edited December 9, 2016 by the--dud

[Fosse]

26 minutes ago, the--dud said:

I've noticed something in FM17 that I can't quite figure out. Across several different teams now when I play Control or Attacking with Fluid shape and "slightly wider" (usually a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 with DM) I struggle with possession. I also have high or normal tempo with short or mixed passing. However, if I set my defensive line to slightly deeper (one level below normal) I suddenly get much more possession and play much better football.

I've been reading Cleon's "how to" guides and I wonder if I've "accidentally" created counter-attacking tactics?   Traditionally speaking on attacking setups aren't you supposed to push your backline up and not down?

I guess my real question is, why does it work to have a lower defensive line on an attacking formation/tactics? It seems illogical to me but I suspect it works as a counter-attacking setup? I've been watching my games and my teams do very often break forward with pace, especially by utilizing the wings

Here's a recent example of one of my tactics:

(It says mentality attacking in the screenshot but I usually vary between that and control depending on who I play. If I play very good teams I pull the AMC down to DM.)

With a high tempo in an already high mentality you don't have too many options because you're pushed up high with little space, so having a deeper line creates more depth and more space to play in

[the--dud]

5 minutes ago, Fosse said:

With a high tempo in an already high mentality you don't have too many options because you're pushed up high with little space, so having a deeper line creates more depth and more space to play in

I figured that might be why but I think dropping deeper also encourage more counter-attacking "triggers" correct?

Phrased differently: when people create successful attacking tactics, with high defensive lines, what do they do different than me to make it work? I guess there's probably not one simple answer...

[ArchieNoose]

My players (mainly youth) are constantly unhappy with a high workload in training. basically any time I get them to train on a specific attribute they spit the dummy out. Any ideas on how to address this?

[PhydomiR]

2 hours ago, the--dud said:

I figured that might be why but I think dropping deeper also encourage more counter-attacking "triggers" correct?

Phrased differently: when people create successful attacking tactics, with high defensive lines, what do they do different than me to make it work? I guess there's probably not one simple answer...

I'm still learning how to create tactics but from what i've read i think it's like this. When on attacking mentality you're not really telling your players to play more attacking, you're telling them to take more risk. So with a slightly deeper defensive line you give your defenders more space and because they take more risk on attacking you're telling your players that it's ok to, as soon as you have the ball, just play it long and your attacking players will try more forward runs.  I've been reading the "The Torino Diaries" topic and trying to adapt that high pressing vision i have created a tactic on defensive mentality that will generally create more chances, shot's on target and possession then the opponent. I suggest you give that topic a read because it completely changed how my view on mentalities and how they work in FM.

Edited December 9, 2016 by PhydomiR

[the--dud]

4 minutes ago, PhydomiR said:

I'm still learning how to create tactics but from what i've read i think it's like this. When on attacking mentality you're not really telling your players to play more attacking, you're telling them to take more risk. So with a slightly deeper defensive line you give your defenders more space and because they take more risk on attacking you're telling your players that it's ok to, as soon as you have the ball, just play it long and your attacking players will try more forward runs.  I've been reading the "The Torino Diaries" topic and trying to adapt that high pressing vision i have created a tactic on defensive mentality that will generally create more chances, shot's on target and possession then the opponent. I suggest you give that topic a read because it completely changed how my view on mentalities and how they work in FM.

Very interesting thanks. I'll give "The Torino Diaries" a read through  Apparently the ME is much more complex now than it used to be! I played a lot of FM up until FM14 but I've only recently gotten back into things with FM17...

[Dr. Hook]

7 hours ago, Repsalty said:

My bad.

Even more thanks for explaining it to me and not simply referring to the FAQ

I've read it a couple of times and I think I'm starting to understand it, I guess I'll just have to try and let it sink in. Anyway many thanks for the explanation!

You're welcome, to be honest I forgot it was in the FAQ

[Dr. Hook]

3 hours ago, ArchieNoose said:

My players (mainly youth) are constantly unhappy with a high workload in training. basically any time I get them to train on a specific attribute they spit the dummy out. Any ideas on how to address this?

Ignore it as there are any negative effects to it that any of us have discovered. I guess if you piled that on to other unhappiness reasons it could be a factor in the breakdown of relationship with the player or him wanting to leave but on its own it won't effect his development and I've never seen anyone ask for a transfer because they didn't like the training. More worryingly possibly, though, is the lack of professionalism that it can indicate, so players complaining about that probably have weaker personalities which you may or may not care about.

[phnompenhandy]

3 hours ago, ArchieNoose said:

My players (mainly youth) are constantly unhappy with a high workload in training. basically any time I get them to train on a specific attribute they spit the dummy out. Any ideas on how to address this?

As Dr. Hook says, it's a hint that they won't improve enough through training. For me it's enough to make a mental note not to renew their contracts or include them in my long-term plans.

[AFCBeer]

3 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

As Dr. Hook says, it's a hint that they won't improve enough through training. For me it's enough to make a mental note not to renew their contracts or include them in my long-term plans.

How I approach this is to look at their training performances. I've had players cry about their extra, let's say tackling training, as they don't think it will work. However, its actually increased from 10.2 to 11.6 in 3 months. On the other hand if after 3 months it's flat or worse then I'll take a different approach. 

[Dr. Hook]

Let's keep in mind that there are different training complaints that signify different things: unhappy with high workload usually indicates a poor personality trait in some area. Then some will say they don't feel the focus training is beneficial- I ignore that one too until (if) it becomes clear it isn't helping- usually it's an attribute that isn't considered key to their position/role. They can also complain that a certain focus is not producing any results- this one here is probably the sign that they won't improve in that attribute, but it can be worth trying for a time. Unhappy about learning new position is another one- could indicate a low versatility rating, but it's one to also give some time and see.  AFCBeer does what I do with most training- use a 90 day cycle. This is long enough to produce benefits if it is going to at all, or decide something isn't working.

[isignedupfornorealreason]

7 minutes ago, Dr. Hook said:

They can also complain that a certain focus is not producing any results

If you're not keen on tracking this sort of thing via notes, you can always just give them individual focus training until that specific message pops up, *then* switch it about. 

 

I found that message pops up when they got bored of training it, or rather after a certain amount of time.

[Dr. Hook]

Just now, isignedupfornorealreason said:

If you're not keen on tracking this sort of thing via notes, you can always just give them individual focus training until that specific message pops up, *then* switch it about. 

 

I found that message pops up when they got bored of training it, or rather after a certain amount of time.

Yeah, there are so many great options for views and other information that I m just now playing with the for the first time

[displaced_seagull]

Could someone explain the differences between 'Move into Channels' as a PI and 'Gets Further Forward' as a PI?

I am playing a flat 4-5-1, with a BWM (D) in the centre and B2B (S) on either side in the centre of the park. One of the B2B midfielders is set with both PI's, the other with neither. Would I perhaps be better off splitting this, so one has 'Moves into Channels' and the other has 'Get Further Forward'? - in short, by giving one player both PI's, am I cancelling one or the other out?

Cheers.

[aderow]

13 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

Retain Possession will reduce risky passes for everyone. By adding the More Risky Passes PI, you're increasing risky passes for that player, so essentially just negating the effect of the TI for that player only.

So, in short : Fewer risky passes (Retain Possession) + More Risky Passes = default setting for role

Cheers for the response. I had a feeling that was the case.  Just wondering if there were certain player roles that were the exception to the rule I guess.

[torehj]

If you have an set-up for attacking free kicks with many players in the box, will this override other instructions like Contain or Play Even Safer? Or will the team hold back a few players so that they don't get hit on the counter?

[vasilli07]

2 hours ago, torehj said:

If you have an set-up for attacking free kicks with many players in the box, will this override other instructions like Contain or Play Even Safer? Or will the team hold back a few players so that they don't get hit on the counter?

Yes. If you want your players to follow your strategy instructions, use the stay back if needed. That should allow them to follow your strategy you choose. I suggest you just change your set pieces instruction as well when you want to change it to a more defensive strategy.

[Aizo4576]

I've been struggling massively in the last two iterations of this game. I didn't play much FM16 because for some reason I could never find tactics that work (mostly were very inconsistent or flat out garbage), and I am fearing FM17 will be the same way. I've tried a few different teams, with different tactics, but nothing ever seems to click. I've read multiple guides (such as BustTheNet and Lines and Diamonds), yet tactics still seems to be what is holding me back most in the game despite it being one of the most interesting parts.

 

Does anybody have any advice for me?

[Artin]

Is preferred foot important when taking corners/free kicks or should I just go with the one with the highest attribute?

[herne79]

3 hours ago, Aizo4576 said:

I've been struggling massively in the last two iterations of this game. I didn't play much FM16 because for some reason I could never find tactics that work (mostly were very inconsistent or flat out garbage), and I am fearing FM17 will be the same way. I've tried a few different teams, with different tactics, but nothing ever seems to click. I've read multiple guides (such as BustTheNet and Lines and Diamonds), yet tactics still seems to be what is holding me back most in the game despite it being one of the most interesting parts.

 

Does anybody have any advice for me?

If you've been reading the guides, perhaps the best thing I can suggest is start a new thread which details your tactical system and the issues you are having.  If you read through the sticky at the top of this forum about asking for help you'll see the type of info we need in order to offer advice - TL;DR, the more info the better .

[herne79]

58 minutes ago, Artin said:

Is preferred foot important when taking corners/free kicks or should I just go with the one with the highest attribute?

I tend to go with the highest corners attribute, but keep an eye on who is taking them.  For example, I don't really want my left back going all the way over to the right corner as he'll be completely out of position if the opposition make a quick break.

[phnompenhandy]

3 hours ago, herne79 said:

I tend to go with the highest corners attribute, but keep an eye on who is taking them.  For example, I don't really want my left back going all the way over to the right corner as he'll be completely out of position if the opposition make a quick break.

It also affects whether the corner is an in-swinger or an out-swinger.

[WhiteRose74]

I have a homesick player who I have agreed to give a leave of absence to - can't see the option to do this anywhere though... Any ideas?

 

[Jorgen]

Will FM16 tactics work on FM17?

I had great success with Fenech's  tactic and I would like to know if the match engines are alike or to different

 

[gandrasch]

I'm getting so frustrated. I play Monaco with a 3 at the back. But it's like they are only decoration, as every low cross from the left is a sure goal against me.  

 

I play them DC(D) - BPD(D) - DC(D), but instead of being more stable in defense I'm feeling like I'm even more open. Do my defenders need some kind of speciality to play them 3 at the back? Workrate etc.?

 

 

[herne79]

34 minutes ago, gandrasch said:

I'm getting so frustrated. I play Monaco with a 3 at the back. But it's like they are only decoration, as every low cross from the left is a sure goal against me.  

 

I play them DC(D) - BPD(D) - DC(D), but instead of being more stable in defense I'm feeling like I'm even more open. Do my defenders need some kind of speciality to play them 3 at the back? Workrate etc.?

 

 

Please mind the language, this is a family forum.

Without knowing your setup it's hard to say.  Please create a new thread with your detailed system and someone may be help.  Have a read through the asking for help sticky at the top of this forum to see what info we need in order to offer advice.

[mikcheck]

Hi.

For a tactic that only relys on fullbacks to give width, it's not to wise to use a CWB, am i correct? They roam too much and the width on that side may not be always there when its needed.

[vasilli07]

1 hour ago, mikcheck said:

Hi.

For a tactic that only relys on fullbacks to give width, it's not to wise to use a CWB, am i correct? They roam too much and the width on that side may not be always there when its needed.

If a player has high decision, he could probably handle the role.

[the--dud]

In terms of developing young players to their maximum potential what is generally best: loaning them out to give them regular competitive matches or keeping them in your own youth team?

My club has far superior facilities and coaches to any potential loan clubs but they would only get to play youth team matches...

I realize there's probably not a "simple answer" but in general what do you guys prefer to do?

[phnompenhandy]

9 minutes ago, the--dud said:

In terms of developing young players to their maximum potential what is generally best: loaning them out to give them regular competitive matches or keeping them in your own youth team?

My club has far superior facilities and coaches to any potential loan clubs but they would only get to play youth team matches...

I realize there's probably not a "simple answer" but in general what do you guys prefer to do?

Firstly, IF you loan them out, ensure it's to a club one or max 2 levels below yours; otherwise the benefits will be less than playing in your reserves. Also ensure that they are guaranteed first team football.

However, the decision depends on how you want the player to develop. Playing first team competitive football on loan will enable to player's CA to increase, but not in a way you can control. By keeping him at your club you get to micro-manage and mould his development though customised training and tutoring. With your staff and facilities, I'd personally keep him close (anf by the way Jurgen Klopp agrees with me according to today's news )

[the--dud]

2 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

Firstly, IF you loan them out, ensure it's to a club one or max 2 levels below yours; otherwise the benefits will be less than playing in your reserves. Also ensure that they are guaranteed first team football.

However, the decision depends on how you want the player to develop. Playing first team competitive football on loan will enable to player's CA to increase, but not in a way you can control. By keeping him at your club you get to micro-manage and mould his development though customised training and tutoring. With your staff and facilities, I'd personally keep him close (anf by the way Jurgen Klopp agrees with me according to today's news )

Thanks I think I will try something of a compromise; I'll keep youth players at the club until the age of 18/19/20 (depending on how they develop) then I will loan them out for 1-3 years. Depending on how they look I'll either sell/release or promote to first team. We'll see how that works out long-term! Exceptional talents (wonderkids) might be fast-tracked of course.

[Artin]

Any way to force my reserve manager to play my Hot Prospects (8 of them on different positions) every reserve match?

I know I could put them on the senior squad and make them available for reserve but if I do this, then my coaches' training workload will increase to Heavy/Very Heavy and I have no more room for extra coaches (they are already sharing 2 or 3 workload).

[phnompenhandy]

1 hour ago, Artin said:

Any way to force my reserve manager to play my Hot Prospects (8 of them on different positions) every reserve match?

I know I could put them on the senior squad and make them available for reserve but if I do this, then my coaches' training workload will increase to Heavy/Very Heavy and I have no more room for extra coaches (they are already sharing 2 or 3 workload).

Control the reserves yourself and sack the manager.

[bluenose91]

does team shape instruction "wide"  focus passing down the flanks as well as instructing players to stand wider on the pitch? i would like my team to cross the ball alot and was under the impression exploiting the flanks just makes full backs more attacking.

[Dr. Hook]

6 hours ago, bluenose91 said:

does team shape instruction "wide"  focus passing down the flanks as well as instructing players to stand wider on the pitch? i would like my team to cross the ball alot and was under the impression exploiting the flanks just makes full backs more attacking.

Play wider is a positional instruction. It won't focus passing down the flanks. That said, by playing wider and having players in space on your flanks will increase their availablility for passes leading to crosses. The exploit flanks shout focuses passing down the selected flank and will slightly increase the attacking mentality and forward runs of the wide players on that flank. It isn't really a disruptive shout in that sense, so it could be useful for you to try. You may want to just try wider and if you find that you are not getting enough balls out wide for crosses, try one or both flanks exploited and see the difference.

[phnompenhandy]

I 'play wider' when the opposition gets a man sent off and I want to make greater advantage of having a man extra.'

On the other hand, with my squad being youthful they tend to have low work rate stamina, so I don't want them running around too much; therefore I habitually play narrow (and have the home pitch at minimum size). However if my central midfielders are ball-winners and I have wingers with better on-the-ball skills, I'll exploit the flanks. My full backs have defensive roles; it's only my wingers on support who attack. Thus, my general set-up is narrow and exploit the flanks so that I'm tight when the oppo have the ball yet good for a counter down the wings.

[Artin]

What's the downside of using the OI Show Weaker Foot on ALL of the opposing players?

Edited December 13, 2016 by Artin

[phnompenhandy]

5 minutes ago, Artin said:

What's the downside of using the OI Show Weaker Foot on ALL of the opposing players?

Let's say you've got central defenders like West Brom who are comfortable heading away crosses all day long. You might not want the oppo wingers cutting inside and making short passes to strikers who can skin past the defenders. But most of the time, it's an advantage.

[Dr. Hook]

6 minutes ago, Artin said:

What's the downside of using the OI Show Weaker Foot on ALL of the opposing players?

The downside of using it at all, which could be magnified if used on ALL opposition is that it can push players into spots where you don't want them going. Maybe you don't really want to show that fast winger inside and put him around your area if he can shoot, as an example. So you get the attempt to limit their effectiveness, but at a risk- not to mention that the risk is made worse if the player is not that weak on the weaker foot. Not saying it's a useless or bad shout, but you want to be sure what it's going to do to your defending if you select it.

[QSF25]

How does the "Use tighter marking" instruction really work?

[hicuty]

Hi, im playing as Torino. I cant believe but there is only one central defender who has 14 jumping. Others are all 10-11 and during my play he is injured. I cant seem to handle the set pieces and corners receiving many goals from them. My question how can i play with low jumping defenders? And how teams handle this in real life?