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Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)

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It does not appear to, because it is still the same amount of training, just a different position/role. Either way, the player is still training only in one category. It used to be that training a new position was an added training load, but now positions are the default training mode for team training. The workload will increase for the player I think only when you add a focus and/or a ppm

Thanks for clearing that up

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Potential ability is a static thing (it will always be a fixed value), but whether they can reach it or not is another question entirely

In this case, your staff member doesn't think he can reach his proper PA

uggh.... I did say [in a different thread] that basically he won't develop enough to fully reach his PA (because not everyone does) but Cleon didn't like my way of saying that he won't reach it, creating a new maximum CA possible (which you're seeing here)

basically saying that the PA is fixed, but he may not get to the number, due to factors (like quality of facilities, lack of gametime, injuries, whatever) rather than a variable PA in game

Well not so in this case, I've used the in-game editor and one of the players mentioned is already at his potential ability. His CA and his PA match, so he has reached his potential. I can't be sure whether his PA has dropped because I don't know what it was when I started the save.

He hasn't had any significant injuries and 6 months into a save seems awfully soon for the AI to decide his lack of development warrants a decrease in his PA. So maybe the 'feature' is just worded wrongly? The game surely can't say "he's now only showing potential to be a League One player in the future" because A) if PA is static then he should only ever have had the potential to be a League One player and this implies otherwise and B) he's already at his peak and therefore technically doesn't have any potential because he's already reached it.

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Well not so in this case, I've used the in-game editor and one of the players mentioned is already at his potential ability. His CA and his PA match, so he has reached his potential. I can't be sure whether his PA has dropped because I don't know what it was when I started the save.

He hasn't had any significant injuries and 6 months into a save seems awfully soon for the AI to decide his lack of development warrants a decrease in his PA. So maybe the 'feature' is just worded wrongly? The game surely can't say "he's now only showing potential to be a League One player in the future" because A) if PA is static then he should only ever have had the potential to be a League One player and this implies otherwise and B) he's already at his peak and therefore technically doesn't have any potential because he's already reached it.

It just means his development has stalled and not improved much recently. The wording is wrong for those who have reached their PA though I agree. It's also nothing to do with PA changing either.

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Hey guys,

1) What kind of pairing would u use to fit Pogba, Matic and Fabregas in a 3 man midfield? Looking to focus on not conceding while also being efficient offensively

2) For another save, what partner would u use to complement a Roaming Playmaker with an Anchorman in the DM position?

EDIT: for 2), I am conceding an alarming amount of goals. mostly from a through ball down the middle

Thanks in advance

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When the TI for Closing Down Sometimes is selected this is how the PI looks:

fdvnk5.png

When the TI Close Down Much More is selected, here is the PI:

2vjr95j.png

A stupid question I have about the new tactics creator... What is the significance of the width of each bar in these screenshots?

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A stupid question I have about the new tactics creator... What is the significance of the width of each bar in these screenshots?

Basically just sets the the baseline for each PI. Setting 'close down less' on the second screen would still result in the player closing down more than setting the same instruction in the first screen because of the overall team mandate to close down more.

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As for my question, what's the difference between the 'creative/disciplined' and 'stick/roam position' team instructions? If I'm trying to create a tactic where my team pretty much bunkers and sticks to the 4-1-4-1 formation and really only breaks from it when a clear counter-attack opportunity presents itself, which one of these is the more important one to set (or both?). Also should I be setting my team instruction to 'counter' or 'defensive?'

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Does anyone have an approximate % that a rest day (either before or after) will add to a players fitness condition?

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As for my question, what's the difference between the 'creative/disciplined' and 'stick/roam position' team instructions? If I'm trying to create a tactic where my team pretty much bunkers and sticks to the 4-1-4-1 formation and really only breaks from it when a clear counter-attack opportunity presents itself, which one of these is the more important one to set (or both?). Also should I be setting my team instruction to 'counter' or 'defensive?'

You've partly answered your own question here. If you want to play a compact, disciplined formation that is hard to break down, of course you want stick to position for most players because if you lose the ball, you want them to quickly be able to get back into the shape. Too much roaming and they might struggle to get back where you want them. In terms of creativity, that isn't going to matter for your defensive shape, it is what happens when you have the ball. When you win the ball, what do you want to have happen, and more importantly, do you have players that you think should be getting more creative offensively? Your last question is also self-answered. If you want a team that sits deep and soaks up pressure and mostly goes forward when a good counter is on, why would you choose any other strategy other than one that plays deep, compact football?

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Hello,

Just two questions

I was looking into the Defensive Winger role and the Mark Tighter PI is unavailable. Why can't this role have this option available ?

The second question is about Close Down: if I set close down to much more, there are roles that only have close down less in their PI. Why can't they close down as the team ?

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:( must be an off day. My question, just how important is percentage of shots on target really? Now obviously the more on target the more goals etc etc

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Do AI opponents actually use Team Instructions and individual Player Instructions? Or do AI teams simply rely on formation, mentality, shape, roles & duties and the players available to them?

Follow up - if the AI does use TIs and PIs, given that the AI can change formation, mentality, roles & duties etc during the course of a match, would the AI also change TIs/PIs accordingly?

Pretty sure the answer to both is "yes", but would like confirmation :).

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Spitballing thoughts here as I'm not able to try things out at the moment. I've been using a 4-4-2 narrow diamond. Fluid & Counter, drop deeper, and play narrower. Its worked fairly well but I haven't taken the time to really analyze the results to see where the tactic can be tweaked effectively. One issue I have noted is that AM never getting really strong match ratings.

I've toyed with the roles. I started the AM as an Attack Mid Support, then tried Attack, then tried Advance Playmaker on both. My primary two players for that spot are both more naturally attacking wingers but attribute wise, they should do okay. I have used one of my CMs there with better success, but he usually gets better grades because he will often blast one from the top of the box and score. I haven't tried the more attacking like Trequarista, as I'm concerned that he won't help out defensively enough.

Positionally, the AM doesn't seem too isolated. The CMs are a B2B and a CM-A, so they spread out nicely. The DM is a DLP-S. The AM doesn't get a ton of touches - often around 25 a match. Part of the issue is that most of my scoring attacks are counters (obviously) and they often come from the wingbacks, and will quite often bypass the AM. When in possession, I think he is sometimes a bit too isolated - the two strikers (AF and DLF-S) aren't always easily available, and if the wide players (the WBs) and CMs aren't easily available, the ball goes astray.

While I'm sure there are ways to get the AM working more effectively, I'm toying with the idea of dropping him back as a third CM. My concern would be how isolated the strikers are and if the CMs would space out. But if I vary the roles a decent amount.... is that workable or likely to be problematic?

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Spitballing thoughts here as I'm not able to try things out at the moment. I've been using a 4-4-2 narrow diamond. Fluid & Counter, drop deeper, and play narrower. Its worked fairly well but I haven't taken the time to really analyze the results to see where the tactic can be tweaked effectively. One issue I have noted is that AM never getting really strong match ratings.

I've toyed with the roles. I started the AM as an Attack Mid Support, then tried Attack, then tried Advance Playmaker on both. My primary two players for that spot are both more naturally attacking wingers but attribute wise, they should do okay. I have used one of my CMs there with better success, but he usually gets better grades because he will often blast one from the top of the box and score. I haven't tried the more attacking like Trequarista, as I'm concerned that he won't help out defensively enough.

Positionally, the AM doesn't seem too isolated. The CMs are a B2B and a CM-A, so they spread out nicely. The DM is a DLP-S. The AM doesn't get a ton of touches - often around 25 a match. Part of the issue is that most of my scoring attacks are counters (obviously) and they often come from the wingbacks, and will quite often bypass the AM. When in possession, I think he is sometimes a bit too isolated - the two strikers (AF and DLF-S) aren't always easily available, and if the wide players (the WBs) and CMs aren't easily available, the ball goes astray.

While I'm sure there are ways to get the AM working more effectively, I'm toying with the idea of dropping him back as a third CM. My concern would be how isolated the strikers are and if the CMs would space out. But if I vary the roles a decent amount.... is that workable or likely to be problematic?

I've noticed that often the AI will mark an AMC, especially if they use a DM, and that will limit him a lot of the times. You can put him as a CM-A or AP-A in the CM spot to get him deeper and more available (and force the DM to move out to engage him and leave space if you are playing a team that uses one) or you can try giving him a roaming instruction or a roaming role such as a Trequartista. If you do go the CM route with him, I don't think isolated strikers will be a problem unless you have two poachers :D. As long as you have one dropping a little deep (DLF, DF etc.) then you should be fine.

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I've noticed that often the AI will mark an AMC, especially if they use a DM, and that will limit him a lot of the times. You can put him as a CM-A or AP-A in the CM spot to get him deeper and more available (and force the DM to move out to engage him and leave space if you are playing a team that uses one) or you can try giving him a roaming instruction or a roaming role such as a Trequartista. If you do go the CM route with him, I don't think isolated strikers will be a problem unless you have two poachers :D. As long as you have one dropping a little deep (DLF, DF etc.) then you should be fine.

Okay, cool. I know I need to analyze and experiment but wanted to ensure the train of thought wasn't way off base. I think the AM is suffering from multiple issues - being marked, not being ideally suited to the position, and being bypassed on counters. I also like that putting 3 CMs plus a DM gives me some role flexibility. Right now, I could actually switch the DM to a more purely defensive role (DM-D or Anchor) and maybe use one of the CMs as the midfield pivot (DLP), with the other two as runners. Two deep at all times that way. Maybe for more difficult games....

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Hello! I'm new here at the forum, I have a basic question about playing counter-attack.

A Counter-Attack strategy works better with a higher tempo or a lower tempo? My first tought would be to use higher for the team instructions, so that the players make fast transitions. But when I select Counter Mentality the standart tempo is slightly lower.

I'm with 1.FC Köln right now, the prediction is 15th at the end of the season, so we'll be underdogs for most of the matches in the season. I want to play a counter-attack strategy trying the to take the best from the pace of my wingers and attackers. My midfield is not great at passing, so I think I won't be able to maintain possession against most of the teams.

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Hello! I'm new here at the forum, I have a basic question about playing counter-attack.

A Counter-Attack strategy works better with a higher tempo or a lower tempo? My first tought would be to use higher for the team instructions, so that the players make fast transitions. But when I select Counter Mentality the standart tempo is slightly lower.

I'm with 1.FC Köln right now, the prediction is 15th at the end of the season, so we'll be underdogs for most of the matches in the season. I want to play a counter-attack strategy trying the to take the best from the pace of my wingers and attackers. My midfield is not great at passing, so I think I won't be able to maintain possession against most of the teams.

Counter-attack match strategy is about staying deep and tight, patiently waiting for the opportunity to break- when a counter attack is triggered in FM, the team will go on attack duties, high tempo, direct passing. You of course have all the option to make the base style higher tempo if that suits what you want more closely.

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So a high-tempo counter tactic would be high tempo at all times, whether on the counter or just holding possession, whereas a low-tempo counter would be higher tempo while countering but slower otherwise, correct?

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Counter-attack match strategy is about staying deep and tight, patiently waiting for the opportunity to break- when a counter attack is triggered in FM, the team will go on attack duties, high tempo, direct passing. You of course have all the option to make the base style higher tempo if that suits what you want more closely.

Thank you! :)

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When selecting players for certain positions are attributes the number one consideration? Or are there other things that should be taken into account?

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So a high-tempo counter tactic would be high tempo at all times, whether on the counter or just holding possession, whereas a low-tempo counter would be higher tempo while countering but slower otherwise, correct?

Yes essentially, though I am not sure how fast the game actually ramps up the tempo on a triggered counter-attack. Probably the highest setting possible, so if you were already at that, then there would be no difference or any perceivable difference more like.

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When selecting players for certain positions are attributes the number one consideration? Or are there other things that should be taken into account?

I make a tactic and shoehorn players into it, generally, so no, it doesn't have to be a prime consideration or exclusive. Obviously I want them to be good, but if my tactic has a Ramdeuter role, then someone is playing it, regardless of the attributes fitting the role or not. Is that what you mean?

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Thanks for the reply. i will use an example instead. I'm in the process of replacing my long standing centre back at the moment. The two guys I have are a 4 star rated CB with 13+ in all relevant attributes (some are as high as 17) except for one which is a 8 (might be positioning but I can remember) the other is a 2 star rated 20 yr old CB who has 12/13 across the board and much cheaper. Would you go for the guy who has the big attributes or the guy who is competent across the attributes?

Sorry if I wasn't clear earlier.

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Thanks for the reply. i will use an example instead. I'm in the process of replacing my long standing centre back at the moment. The two guys I have are a 4 star rated CB with 13+ in all relevant attributes (some are as high as 17) except for one which is a 8 (might be positioning but I can remember) the other is a 2 star rated 20 yr old CB who has 12/13 across the board and much cheaper. Would you go for the guy who has the big attributes or the guy who is competent across the attributes?

Sorry if I wasn't clear earlier.

I see what you mean. I tend to go for the better rounded players all things being equal, but it depends on what sort of game you are looking for him to play and what you care about. For me the better across the board seems to pay off more because there are very few positions/roles (if any) where an attribute is useless. The other factor, since you are talking about a 20 year old is consistency, pressure etc. He might not be up to the job and need some development. At 20, he will improve but you might want an older developed player as your starter. It's all pretty subjective though. How about you buy both :)

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:( must be an off day. My question, just how important is percentage of shots on target really? Now obviously the more on target the more goals etc etc

You have to factor in the shots themselves.

You could have 10 shots and only 1 on target. But that isn't necessarily poor shooting if the 9 off target shots are all from free kicks for example.

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Haha I just have actually (got a good deal on the older lad). I do tend to buy players that are better across the board. Just wondered if there were any downsides. Cheers Dr Hook.

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Sorry to drum on about stats and attributes.

I see people ask about what is wrong with there tactics, but what if you want to know why they are working?? Is it as simple as just making sure the players you buy are of similar or better quality and that they have the correct PPMs in place? And is this the time that you start to really work on youth development so that you have a steady stream of players you can develop for this particular tactic?

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About training, previously you picked an individual focus, be it a role or a particular attribute. Now theres a separate selection for position/role and individual focus. If i choose fullback for position/role i assume it will still put focus on attributes important to a fullback?

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Do AI opponents actually use Team Instructions and individual Player Instructions? Or do AI teams simply rely on formation, mentality, shape, roles & duties and the players available to them?

Follow up - if the AI does use TIs and PIs, given that the AI can change formation, mentality, roles & duties etc during the course of a match, would the AI also change TIs/PIs accordingly?

Pretty sure the answer to both is "yes", but would like confirmation :).

Still kinda curious on this one.

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Sorry, but for the life of me, i cant remember.

In preseason, team cohesion high-very high

more match training all the way to the left o

and teamwork in the match prep ?

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Hello,

Just two questions

I was looking into the Defensive Winger role and the Mark Tighter PI is unavailable. Why can't this role have this option available ?

The second question is about Close Down: if I set close down to much more, there are roles that only have close down less in their PI. Why can't they close down as the team ?

Also curious with these :)

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Playing in Italy you see some odd formations, what are peoples thought on the style of player these are based on? e.g. are they slow possession based?

1)

AF CFs

SS

DMd DMs DMs

FBs CDd CDd FBs

2nd

AFa

AMs

WBs Dms DMs WBs

Fbs CDd CDd FBs (very high line)

second one seems so odd player by Udinese, back 4 and the next back of 4 are basically touching each other

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Still kinda curious on this one.

As am I- Based on what I know, which isn't the entire black box workings of FM by any stretch, they do, as we've been told in the past that the AI has access to the same TI and PI we do. It also would stand to reason that AI would use them to replicate the manager styles that researchers enter. I know that the AI uses OI's, if that is any indication.

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Also curious with these :)

On the Defensive Winger, no idea why mark tighter is not an option. It seems like it should be. The close down is easier- if you have the team set to Much more, they are closing down at the max possible setting already, so any player whose closing down matches the team can only reduce it not increase because it is maxed out from the start.

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I'll be trying this out later on, but before I do so, is there anything blatantly wrong with this?

I want:

To play defensive football, sit deep and absorb pressure before countering.

Mostly score my goals on the break.

Have my left winger be the main scorer.

Defensive

Fluid

41221

Play out of defence

Work ball into box

GK - GKd

RB - FBa

CB - CDd

CB - CDd

LB - WBs

DM - DLPs

MCR - CMa

MCL - CMd

AMR - Ws

AML - Raumdeuter

ST - DLFs (move into channels, roam, dribble less)

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I'll be trying this out later on, but before I do so, is there anything blatantly wrong with this?

I want:

To play defensive football, sit deep and absorb pressure before countering.

Mostly score my goals on the break.

Have my left winger be the main scorer.

Defensive

Fluid

41221

Play out of defence

Work ball into box

GK - GKd

RB - FBa

CB - CDd

CB - CDd

LB - WBs

DM - DLPs

MCR - CMa

MCL - CMd

AMR - Ws

AML - Raumdeuter

ST - DLFs (move into channels, roam, dribble less)

I wouldn't say blatantly wrong, but Cleon just mentioned in another thread that if you are going to focus on defending and countering, having the wingers further up the pitch means they help out less. Not even regarding their roles and duties but simply where they are stationed on the pitch. They are not behind the ball, which means less players to win back the ball and launch the counter.

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On the Defensive Winger, no idea why mark tighter is not an option. It seems like it should be. The close down is easier- if you have the team set to Much more, they are closing down at the max possible setting already, so any player whose closing down matches the team can only reduce it not increase because it is maxed out from the start.

Thank you, but shouldn't the Player Instruction have the option As the Team available ? I mean, if the team is set to Much More, the players should be able to close down Much More also, right ? and not only to close down less or much less.

As for the Mark Tighter should it be logged as a bug ? if so, in what bugs forum ?

By the way, looking tp Dani Alves, I think we all agree he's a WB / CWB and that sometimes he cuts inside. Shouldn't this movement be available in player instructions (only the WB with support duty is allowed to) ?

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If I put AML(S) with get further forward will he still have the defensive workrate of a support aml?

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How do I stop my players from simply smashing the ball forward (or out of play) when they are defending in numbers? For example my team is defending a corner, CB heads the ball away and it's picked up by my lone striker somewhere near the half way line. Instead of

a) holding onto the ball

b) trying to break away with it

c) passing back to a teammate

almost always he will just kick the ball forward to the opposition keeper or even out of bounds.

This is happening with all 3 of my tactics including the one which definitely should prohibit this (control/retain possession/play out of defence/work the ball into the box).

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Hi all,

My trainning understand tell me that a player until 25 years should be put in a specific skill train and abvoe 25 in a role train. If possible, if the player is happy with the train, we should implement the two? Or no?

Thanks.

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How do I stop my players from simply smashing the ball forward (or out of play) when they are defending in numbers? For example my team is defending a corner, CB heads the ball away and it's picked up by my lone striker somewhere near the half way line. Instead of

a) holding onto the ball

b) trying to break away with it

c) passing back to a teammate

almost always he will just kick the ball forward to the opposition keeper or even out of bounds.

This is happening with all 3 of my tactics including the one which definitely should prohibit this (control/retain possession/play out of defence/work the ball into the box).

I think the Lone Striker dont have the order: "Hold the ball" If he had he would hold the ball i guess ;)

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If I put AML(S) with get further forward will he still have the defensive workrate of a support aml?

He still do some defensiv work, but he will push more forward like a AML/a does

Defensiv work depends on your philosophy. Structured AM do less defensiv work than fluid AM´s does.

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Thank you, but shouldn't the Player Instruction have the option As the Team available ? I mean, if the team is set to Much More, the players should be able to close down Much More also, right ? and not only to close down less or much less.

Closing down "Sometimes" is "As the Team". Its just bad writing causing so much confusion.

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Thank you, but shouldn't the Player Instruction have the option As the Team available ? I mean, if the team is set to Much More, the players should be able to close down Much More also, right ? and not only to close down less or much less.

As for the Mark Tighter should it be logged as a bug ? if so, in what bugs forum ?

By the way, looking tp Dani Alves, I think we all agree he's a WB / CWB and that sometimes he cuts inside. Shouldn't this movement be available in player instructions (only the WB with support duty is allowed to) ?

I think it is the way that it is worded- like Swansongs says is above- that is not clear. But basically, when the team is at the highest possible closing down, any player that has the team default will also be at the highest closing down possible, so there is no higher setting you could give, which is why it is not an option. Or think of it in numbers- if your team is set at 100% closing down, every player who has team closing down rather than a role/duty that is different from the team setting will also be at 100%. There is nothing higher, so you couldnt set him to 120%, say.

There is a bugs section where you can raise the issue of tight marking http://community.sigames.com/forumdisplay.php/519-Football-Manager-2016-Bugs-Forum

For cuts inside, Wingback w/support or IWB will do it, not sure why it is limited to support duty at all, but it is. Perhaps they thought the support duty will have space to cut inside whereas the attack duty wingback heads for the byline and no room to cut inside. I think it works fine with the support duty because he is still in the middle third. You could raise that along with the defensive winger thing, though.

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If I put AML(S) with get further forward will he still have the defensive workrate of a support aml?

He will do the exact same thing, only if he gets forward he will have further to track back so this could take him out of the play. Otherwise, his defensive play will not be changed

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Hi all,

My trainning understand tell me that a player until 25 years should be put in a specific skill train and abvoe 25 in a role train. If possible, if the player is happy with the train, we should implement the two? Or no?

Thanks.

You will always have a position being trained now in FM16- the default is the players primary playing position. There is no more training for a specific role with that position. You can use specific skill training even after a player is fully developed, though. If he has reached his full potential, what will happen is that the atributes will get redstributed, so if you wanted to boost a player who is 28 tackling skill, if it increases you will see a drop in some other attribute. I use specific skill training while they are still developing, and then only in developed players if I want to reshape some skills.

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I think it is the way that it is worded- like Swansongs says is above- that is not clear. But basically, when the team is at the highest possible closing down, any player that has the team default will also be at the highest closing down possible, so there is no higher setting you could give, which is why it is not an option. Or think of it in numbers- if your team is set at 100% closing down, every player who has team closing down rather than a role/duty that is different from the team setting will also be at 100%. There is nothing higher, so you couldnt set him to 120%, say.

There is a bugs section where you can raise the issue of tight marking http://community.sigames.com/forumdisplay.php/519-Football-Manager-2016-Bugs-Forum

For cuts inside, Wingback w/support or IWB will do it, not sure why it is limited to support duty at all, but it is. Perhaps they thought the support duty will have space to cut inside whereas the attack duty wingback heads for the byline and no room to cut inside. I think it works fine with the support duty because he is still in the middle third. You could raise that along with the defensive winger thing, though.

Thank you :) I understand that if closing down is set to maximum in team instructions, it cannot increase in player instructions. What I found strange is not being able to set the player instruction equal to the team. I started a thread at the match engine bugs forum about short cornets, I think I will raise these issues also.

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Thanks Dr. Hook.

I had a wrong understand. Just train the position, and to develop the youngs I should also add a specific train (tackling for example).

That is what I do- my young players 15-17 or so I focus on trying to develop their physical attributes with specific training focus, or things first touch and technique. At about 18 or 19 if they ahve developed physically the way I want or have stopped progressing, I move on to specific skills for their role/position, and after 25 or so, I just train positions and don't generally use specific focus except in the case I mentioned in the post above where I want to reshape a player a little bit.

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