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Dpoes 4-2-3-1 work for anyone?


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I have played either 4-4-2 or 4-1-3-2 for years and am quite happy with them.

Currently, my forwards can't hit a cow's arse with a banjo and as I have 3 AMC's, one AML and one AMR I thought about changing my formation to a 4-2-3-1.

Would it be best to set up the 3 AMC's playing close together (I have a narrow pitch), or one AMC and then the two wide AM's?

And, for each, what positions would one choose? Would they be Attackign Midf's or Inside Forwards, or wingers??

Or should all this be dependant on their skill set/attributes.

Any help appreciated, especially if tried and tested.

I am playing non league and FM2010.

Thanks

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Check out the SFraser post Meet The System, it's probably the most comprehensive fm write up on that formation

My frustration with that advice thread is that the first several posts are all about a stacked Man Utd team. I don't think much advice is needed in winning with that squad, and furthermore, a lot of the tips are only relevant to you if your own team has incredible players.

For the OP, I go back and forth between having the "2" in 4-2-3-1 be central midfielders or defensive midfielders playing deeper. Both seem to work about the same for me. I have tried the 3 AMC approach, but using 1 AMC and 2 wingers/inside forwards works a lot better for me...especially in terms of giving my creative players room to operate with and without the ball.

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My frustration with that advice thread is that the first several posts are all about a stacked Man Utd team. I don't think much advice is needed in winning with that squad, and furthermore, a lot of the tips are only relevant to you if your own team has incredible players.

For the OP, I go back and forth between having the "2" in 4-2-3-1 be central midfielders or defensive midfielders playing deeper. Both seem to work about the same for me. I have tried the 3 AMC approach, but using 1 AMC and 2 wingers/inside forwards works a lot better for me...especially in terms of giving my creative players room to operate with and without the ball.

It's also an excellent overview of an idealised vision of the system, much of it can be distilled to account for a lower calibre of player. Although, to be fair, the formation lends itself to better squads. Given that most players out of the top crop are, to some degree, fairly one-dimensional it would be hard to have a striker capable of a variety of play-styles + an impressive AM + 2 MC's who are able to both pick a pass and track defensively - my view is that those 4 players define this formation and a lack of players suitable of fulfilling the roles will often see the formation falter.

It's a matter of playing with what you've got though. SFraser's system is, pretty much, this:

ST - Either a well-rounded advanced forward or a playmaker type

AM - Capable of pushing forward to be a creative striker partner

WGs - Inside forwards, basically strikers on the wing (although he also used playmaker types)

MCs - Defensive playmakers

FBs - Hard working, good on the ball

CBs - Solid

Apart from the defensive playmakers these types of players can be found at most levels and would make a really good team setup. You could always use defensive-minded players at MC and accept a slight loss of attacking prowess and it would still be very effective.

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On FM11 i had something like this:

FB: Auto

CB: Defend

CB: Defend

FB: Auto

MCl: CM Defend

MCr: DLP Support

AMC: Att Mid Support

AMR: Winger Attack

AML: Inside Forward Attack

STC: Advanced Forward

Basically the wide Attacking midfielders and advanced forward would have massive pace and good dribbling to be really effective on the break, the deep lying playmaker and attacking midfielder would normally create the chances.

I wanted originally to have a creative striker to come deep and create space for the runs of the centre Attacking midfielder but never managed to make that work properly though i don't really tweak settings manually.

It just seems a lot easier to make a mediocre striker work just as long as he has good pace and acceleration instead of having a creative intelligent striker coming deep, could be just my incompetence though.

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I use SFraser's "System" in Bundesliga 2 with St. Pauli and it works pretty well. I'll admit, I had to change a lot of sliders (mentality, run with ball, etc) to account for having lesser players. I play:

WBs Auto

CBs Defend

MCl Ball Winning Mid

MCr CM Support

AML Inside Forward Att

AMC Attacking Mid Att

AMR Winger Att

ST Poacher Att

My defense can be a bit weak, but I'll pull the AMC back to a DMC to hold a lead.

It can work.

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Hello all. I'm Playing FM12. I've had good times playing 4-2-3-1 in the Conference with quite limited players. The key seems to be to encourage the wide men to come inside and join in with the guys in the middle, overloading the centrebacks (narrow-ish width, advanced playmaker, cut inside). Some wide men, though, just seem to want to run down the touchline whatever you tell them. I find the fullbacks, apart from tiring themselves out charging up and down the line and winning the odd corner contribute very little, so if you're leaking goals just keep them at home.

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Never got it to work on FM10 :(

FM10 strongly favours players in central positions, especially 3 strikers formations (look at Genoa's ridiculous success in each and every save).

I know that's not helpful as in providing a solution, but having played FM10 until three weeks ago, I remember that very well and wanted to give you my sympathy for still trying :)

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In FM11, I made a 4-2-3-1 based on SFraser’s thought process. I had a few different philosophies to him but largely I agreed with his way of trying to do things. In the end I found something that worked very well on that game but it’s pretty inconsistent on FM12. I started again and made a 4-1-2-3 with 3 strikers. It worked pretty well but not great. I then dropped the middle striker back to a TQ to make a 4-1-2-1-2 and it’s been extremely strong. And satisfying that I created it all on my own. But it’s little weak against teams with fast wingers (like the Manchesters) so I need to find a solution to that problem. Anyway…I’d love to find a 4-2-3-1 that works. I just don’t want to download someone else’s. I don’t know how anyone can download a tactic and then truly enjoy any success they have.

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hi!

I'm playing 4231 on fm12 successfully

But I switch a lot CMs and DMs, and also the roles. Now with the new tactics screen it´s also easier if I need to switch the AMC to the ST position or so, as I can see the familiarity.

For now I play Celta, Spanish 2nd Division, this season already promoted to liga BBVA and I´m not doing bad... 6th after 15 matches.

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I've won 8 trophies in 6 years with Celtic and am using it with good success at Real Madrid in my 7th season with this version of the 4-2-3-1, shared it with a couple of forumers in the Celtic thread over in gptg and it seems to be doing the business for them as well.:thup:

http://www.gamefront.com/files/20944383/Martin+O'Neill+(Celtic%2C+Aug+2014).tac

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Generally, I find that the 4231 in FM operates more like a 4-2-4 since advanced midfielders rarely track back, so to get 4231 to work, you need excellent defenders, particularly fullbacks who can handle the pressure you'll be facing down your flanks. Two excellent holding midfielders are also essential.

To get a more defensive Joachim Loew-style 4231, however, I find 4-4-1-1 with aggressive wingers (set to either "normal" or "cut inside" wideplay) does a better job of capturing the formation's defensive shape. A 4-4-2 with either a supporting deep forward or a treq works as well.

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I've been using 4231 so far as it worked pretty well for me on FM10 and FM11 - I'm tweaking game by game but playing LLM with ok (for the division) players and I'm currently 2nd after a dozen or so games. As I see it the key balance is in two areas: the CMs (or DMs, if you play with deeper central players) and the AML/R. I use the below:

................SK...............

.............Defend............

..FB.....DC....BPD.....FB..

Auto Defend Defend Auto

.........DLP.....BWM.........

........Supp...Defend........

..W........AM/AP.........IF..

.Supp.....Supp.....Attack..

..............P/AF...............

.............Attack.............

The central philosophy is that in any attack, I have 5 players forward - obviously my ST and AMs, plus one of my central midfielders (usually the DLP). The other CM and two full backs hold a supporting position around the halfway line, ready to re-organise if there is a counter-attack, whilst also offering an option for a backward pass if an attacker runs into traffic.

I've found my DLP (I sometimes play him as an AP on Support, depending on how often I want him to run from deep) picks up a lot of possession centrally around 18-30 yards out, occasionally switching positions with my AMC if he drops deeper. The DLP must be technically proficient on the ball, but more importantly have the composure, vision and decision-making ability that allow him to pick the right option of spraying it wide, threading a through ball, or working some interchange with the AMC.

The AML/R relationship has been a little harder to get to grips with - my best player is my AML, who favours his right foot so I've been playing him as an Inside Forward. He has high creative freedom and is essentially given free reign attacking-wise. However this does mean that naturally my DL can be left exposed and doubled up on as my AML cuts inside and works to get into the box, so my more defensive minded CM is on the left side of the duo to be nearer to play if a counter attack is made down my left flank. My AMR is usually an out-and-out winger, although I usually play him in a supporting role as my MCr is the more attack-minded, so a lot of space can be created down my Inside Right channel if both players commit too far forward in attack.

I assign my AML/AMR on Specific man-marking duties, usually against the corresponding full-back, but with 'No' for Tight Marking, as this ensures they track back just enough to get bodies back and crowd the opposition in wide areas, but not that they stick too religiously to a player who in the lower leagues is not as creative as higher up the pyramid. Tight Marking would also mean their attacking freedom would be reduced as a marker would be nearer to them when we are in possession. The affect is two players who mix-up their runs out to the flank or inside, and create a lot of my chances, but track back at least to the halfway line to dissuade the opposing full-backs from being too offensive.

I started off playing my AMC as a Trequartista but found that this obviously made him less than useless defensively. He has good physical stats so can put up with a good shift, so I changed him to a supporting AM/AP so that he will generally be dropping into space to pick up possession or track a central runner back to the centre circle, but will like to drive onto the ball and take long-shots or play through-balls for my ST. My ST is usually a Poacher as he has good Pace/Acceleration/Off the Ball/Finishing stats, but occasionally as an Advanced Forward if I need him to close the opposition defence down more, or run channels if I'm playing more direct to link-up play for my AMs.

The end result is quite fluid - in attack:

-----GK-----

---CB-CB---

WB------WB

-----CM-----

---AMAM---

-ST-ST-ST-

...and in defence...

-----GK-----

FB-CBCB FB

---DMDM---

-----CM-----

W---------W

-----ST-----

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4-2-3-1 worked well despite failing me in the 1st season.

Tweaked a little bit and is working perfectly.

Left Side----------Gk(D)------------------Right Side

FB(automatic) Ball playing(X) Limited © FB(Auto)

BWM(D) CM(S or D)

IF(A) AP(A) IF(S)

AF(A)

Philosphy should be fluid or balanced. Very fluid might backfire.

Balanced strategy works well. Im playing with Aston Villa..

Try getting your FB sticking on their side of the pitch and hugging touchline..

My IF(A) was Gabby Agbonlahor. Was a beast in my 2nd season.

Even though i played badly in the 1st half of the season in Domestic league, because i didnt have a striker (Injured)

His stats in February..

Apps : 37(2)

Goals: 19

Pens: 0

Assists 23

Motm: 4

Yellow: 7

Tck: 2.40

Pas R: 77%

Drb: 4.13

Av R: 7.58

------------------

Btw i think your Advanced playmaker role is important. I didnt know what duties to put him on, so after tweaking for a season. I finally found out AP(A) was the best..

Eriksen was my playmaker. Usually sub him off at 60+ min due to his low stamina. By the 60min mark, he will average a 5 key pass per game.. If he stay on the pitch for 90min.

He would usually get 7 or 8..

Got Kovacic on my 2nd season as a backup while slowly introducing him to my 1st team. He too worked very well :D

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Worked for me, i do have one of my wingers as an out and out winger, set to support, alway gets assists. And my other winger set as an attacking inside forward supporting the front striker.

I like to have one midfielder with more defensive duties, just to cover me on the break and hold the line.

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