FM2012 difficulty.

[milnerpoint]

Good stuff mate, fantastic to hear

[blala]

why i'm feeling that the game became easy after 12.1 i'm starting new game with leverkusen in germain and now i'm 2nd with easy lost 1 game against Stuttgart 4-1 but the rest of the matches mostly won it

[TomTranmere]

I didn't want to make a new thread for this... but has anybody else noticed how bad the team talks are? Not long ago they seemed fine but now it seems impossible to motivate the team... some of the time you say things like "Keep going out there and you can still win" And the team switches off?? Practically impossible to get a positive reaction.

Bizarre

[wally13]

I didn't want to make a new thread for this... but has anybody else noticed how bad the team talks are? Not long ago they seemed fine but now it seems impossible to motivate the team... some of the time you say things like "Keep going out there and you can still win" And the team switches off?? Practically impossible to get a positive reaction.

Bizarre

I think its been brought up once or twice , All depends on rep etc, its not perfect by any means but for a 1st attemp at trying to make the game more a challenge its a step in right direction. to me that is

[phnompenhandy]

I didn't want to make a new thread for this... but has anybody else noticed how bad the team talks are? Not long ago they seemed fine but now it seems impossible to motivate the team... some of the time you say things like "Keep going out there and you can still win" And the team switches off?? Practically impossible to get a positive reaction.

Bizarre

So you're not into reading the posts in this thread or umpteen other threads, then? No wonder your players don't respond to you.

[PaulC]

That post made my day, cheers Keyzer :-)

[Tubbs]

@Keyser Soze...i won't quote you (as it takes up too much space) but, a very good point well made. The isssues raised by "click continue and win" mob have all been addressed. And yes it's harder to motivate your team, but rightly so. IMHO this game (difficulty wise) is spot on now. It requires some effort to win, not just choosing the right teamtalk. Well done for 12.1 SI !! Really enjoying the game.

BUT that said, those not happy with 12.1, should be able to choose which version suits and play accordingly. But then that’s Steam not SI by all accounts.

[ianscousemac]

I don't know what has happened since the patch. Playing with Sunderland going into the xmas period I was 7th. Not changing tactics/teamtalks significantly I haven't won a game since the new patch. No major injuries either.

[blala]

peaople who thinking that the game is now harder after 12.1 try to start new game and see the game still hard cuz i'm feeling the opposite

[ianscousemac]

Think I am gonna have to start a new game. I just can't see what has happened to my Sunderland save to make performances and results go so badly overnight.

[ianscousemac]

I just reloaded a game v Norwich away 3 times and lost all 3 time to try different team talks. It wasn't just getting beat it was the manner of the performance that had me bemused. Norwich players had poor morale and and where 19th in the league and hadn't won for 6 games. 12.1 really seems to have spoiled this game for me.

[wally13]

I just reloaded a game v Norwich away 3 times and lost all 3 time to try different team talks. It wasn't just getting beat it was the manner of the performance that had me bemused. Norwich players had poor morale and and where 19th in the league and hadn't won for 6 games. 12.1 really seems to have spoiled this game for me.

Are you playing a new save or have you continued a save ?

[ianscousemac]

I am playing with a continued save. Was really enjoying it with Sunderland doing ok in 7th nothing to write home about then wham all of sudden after I patched up to 12.1 performances, and results went down hill massively. I'm not saying I should be winning games just since the patch the team appears unmotivated and performs poorly. I aint doing much different than before. I then tried changing team talks and still the same. I don't want to have to start again.

[Kravitz]

since last patch I'm unhappy because my players are too... however I'm sure I do the best possible team talks. Strange definition of game difficulty to make players behaviour unstable like now.

[wally13]

I am playing with a continued save. Was really enjoying it with Sunderland doing ok in 7th nothing to write home about then wham all of sudden after I patched up to 12.1 performances, and results went down hill massively. I'm not saying I should be winning games just since the patch the team appears unmotivated and performs poorly. I aint doing much different than before. I then tried changing team talks and still the same. I don't want to have to start again.

Yeah i think you will find it strange mate playing a continued game its hard to get to grips with the new moral and team talk system, i know this dose't help you but thats what it will be

[Keyzer Soze]

I am playing with a continued save. Was really enjoying it with Sunderland doing ok in 7th nothing to write home about then wham all of sudden after I patched up to 12.1 performances, and results went down hill massively. I'm not saying I should be winning games just since the patch the team appears unmotivated and performs poorly. I aint doing much different than before. I then tried changing team talks and still the same. I don't want to have to start again.

This happens to me too! Playing really well with patch 12.0.4, and after the release of patch 12.1 my team just stop winning games, and start playing so bad that i couldn' believe!

Trust me, you must tweak your tactic!

See posts number: #1655, #1658, #1661, #1662, #1663 and #1700

I had the exact same problem, and the solution was start a new game, and tweak my tactic.

[Jari Rantanen\'s Shorts]

I was playing with Droyslden, semi-pro footballer rep, and found the game ridiculously easy season 1: 120+ points, romped home, fluid football, click, continue = win.

2nd season was harder to be fair, as difficult to attract players, but still was 2nd in league and playing great stuff with only few adjustments.

Post patch however the footballing quality dropped in accordance with the morale! More realistic for BSP standard, and after three 0-0 draws in a row, I've started to get some tweaks to get the wins coming again more frequently.

The main differences I've found is my BSP players now look more like BSP players on the highlights, I'm drawing much more frequently (only drew 2 matches in 1.5 seasons pre-patch) and I'm actually having to think about squad selection, tactical tweaks and shouts in order to get results. I'm still 2nd, will be top if I win the game in hand, but it's a better challenge now. So far, so good.

I have found that the football is more realistic (albeit at a lower level than Sunderland, although maybe not that much lower level given their performances IRL!) post patch, presumable from the morale drops: most players are now Fairly Good/Good rather than a squad full of Superbs.

One slight concern is that I have seen 2-3 goals where a defender basically stands and watches a forward run twice as far as them to a loose ball to score, but may just be coincidence (all of these goals have been in my favour FWIW)

[ReggaeBwoy]

We should reach a conclusio on this, you are going to get a few people who are discontented with the game, but especially since the new patch, I think the majority of players are very happy with the game and so am I, I ponder around team threads quite often and have seen the difference in results. If you have claimed a victory where you have completely battered the team and you feel it is 'unrealistic', give yourself credit, but the debate on this thread has been led with an update that most people are very happy with it and that should be the end of it:) @Ianscousemac maybe it was that in the last patch you didnt have much to think about this time maybe you should re-consider tactics, you may have given different team talks but have you looked at your tactics eg are you playing too attacking when you could slow down the tempo, your point proves to em that the game is challenging and doesnt provide a click of the button to give victory, there are many other elements in it.

Well done SI on creating an improved match, as with every game there are some bugs/flaws but overally you have a majority of people who enjoy the game, I have some mates who play this game and are never on these threads and they never have criticism of the game, they normally want help on how to stop conceding goals

[kerryid]

I guess i am one of the oldest and perhaps sadest users of FM and that's not counting the sinclar spectrum versions of football management so i would like to think i know what i am talking about.

The game is hard and easy and well that's because of the unknown factors in the programing. I sit wondering if the player i have signed is as good as the stats i required. When you scout him there are no indications of injury proneness big match bottler of inconsistent but he just doesn't seem to be wowing me. Is it the role i have given him? i know i will check his stats with Genie scout, no no concerns there, is it the players behind him?, have i set the passing to get him on the ball enough? you could drive yourself mad but at the end of it you must tell yourself that even the best teams loose and have poor form.

The question is do you want to be the best and feel ultimately unsatified or inconsistent and constantly trying to meet the chalenge. There's probably better things to be doing with our life

[lagigia]

I am an experienced player and I am disappointed.

I have started as Sunday League player rep. Joined FC Juventus and won the Serie A with only 1 lost. My central defenders scored more than my forwards.

I am going to install FM2011 again.

[PaulC]

I am an experienced player and I am disappointed.

I have started as Sunday League player rep. Joined FC Juventus and won the Serie A with only 1 lost. My central defenders scored more than my forwards.

I am going to install FM2011 again.

If you played the whole season in 12.1 that's pretty impressive stuff. Fair play.

[Mitja]

maybe it would be worth taking a look at this thread: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/292708-defending-just-awful...-could-it-be-a-bug

[PaulC]

Interesting thread but its stuff we will review in the next gen iteration of the ME rather than tweak the current one, which btw hasn't changed enough since 11.3 for the issues being reported to be down to 12.0 or 12.1.

[Mitja]

nice to hear you have it in mind, still AM strata players tracking back doesn't sound like a major tweak, but I might be wrong. cheers

[PaulC]

It might have knockons to the balance of goals per game, etc, and that could take weeks to rebalance.

That isnt something I am willing to allocate time for unfortunately. I'd rather work all out on something for 13 or 14 that will take the whole thing to a new level.

[bigman]

so the majority of voters said the game is about right, yet si force a game ruining (for me) update that takes any enjoyment i once had out the game

good work!!! what a joke

[Kravitz]

SI hasn't increased the game difficulty IMO.

They have messed up some features (without any constructive and real motivation) in order to create (more) problems to the user. In fact they have put some bugs theirselves...

Maybe SI and some strange people consider this as increasing game difficulty, BUT in fact this is 100% flawing/messing up the game playability & enjoyment.

Unfortunately this has been one of the worst patches I have ever known. Because it hasn't improved anything, but only has ruined some game features.

SI will not accept this at the moment, but I'm sure they won't be able to clean these recent bugs in the near feature... Thats why it's easier to say that the game now is better than before...

[Mike7077]

"Strange people"?

[bigman]

this game is only fun for masochists

[flauta kicma]

SI hasn't increased the game difficulty IMO.

They have messed up some features (without any constructive and real motivation) in order to create (more) problems to the user. In fact they have put some bugs theirselves...

Maybe SI and some strange people consider this as increasing game difficulty, BUT in fact this is 100% flawing/messing up the game playability & enjoyment.

Unfortunately this has been one of the worst patches I have ever known. Because it hasn't improved anything, but only has ruined some game features.

SI will not accept this at the moment, but I'm sure they won't be able to clean these recent bugs in the near feature... Thats why it's easier to say that the game now is better than before...

:thup:

Exatly, 11.3 here I come.

[vilks]

so the majority of voters said the game is about right, yet si force a game ruining (for me) update that takes any enjoyment i once had out the game

good work!!! what a joke

It's utterly bizarre. I don't know what the percentage was before the patch but I think it was more than 50%.

But obviously pleasing less people is more important apparently. Oh well.

[chocolatecoatedballs]

My 2 cents.

I think the game is about right, but I am in no means a veteran or tacticle wizard. I only use players my scouts find and never go for a big club like MU or Barca.

The thing that I think that inbalances the game is moral/talks, it seems to have more baring on the game than player ability or the tactics employed.

[Neil Brock]

It hasn't as such been made 'harder' - if you start a new game with a low experience (such as semi-pro) will struggle more to motivate high rep players until they earn their trust.Likewise morale is harder to keep very high but likewise it's easier to get out of very low morale. The whole thing has been balanced to make it fairer and less dependent on just morale. As with all FMs tactics and signings can make a massive difference.

[chocolatecoatedballs]

My perception is that the game is set up for 4-4-2 with wingers that cross, everyone saying the game is easy plays this formation. I found the game easy using this formation, so I changed to 4-3-3 with wide inside forwards set to cross rarely one to sometimes, I find it a much greater challenge, you need a lot of luck at the start of the season when they are learning your tactic, or morale will plummet.

[bigman]

well in my original arsenal game where i won the treble, my players are low on morale and don't listen to me in team talks and generally lose alot more than before....

[Keyzer Soze]

so the majority of voters said the game is about right, yet si force a game ruining (for me) update that takes any enjoyment i once had out the game

good work!!! what a joke

I voted that the game was right, and yet i gotta say that the new patch as raise the game to a much better level! So the poll result may not be the best indicator!

[Com]

I don't know how you guys find this easy! It's not as hard as real life management (as within time, it's possible to make most low teams into CL winners), but for a video game, its one of the hardest I've ever faced.

[hursty2]

My perception is that the game is set up for 4-4-2 with wingers that cross, everyone saying the game is easy plays this formation. I found the game easy using this formation, so I changed to 4-3-3 with wide inside forwards set to cross rarely one to sometimes, I find it a much greater challenge, you need a lot of luck at the start of the season when they are learning your tactic, or morale will plummet.

I beg to differ.

In my game with Stoke before 12.1, I had only managed a 7th position in 5 seasons as manager and even then I was still about 10 points off 6th place. 12.1 came and along with it came a change of formation to a NARROW diamond. This has seen me 24 games into the season and I am sat in 3rd, this has been my best season ever so far and that is with a narrow formation. I've had to work very hard to get these results to catch the top 6, who have occupied those positions for the past 5 seasons (Man Utd, Man City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool and Tottenham). I've had to push the boat out in terms of wages to attract top players but this has also seen the size of my squad drop, where now it is only 19 players.

You can read my progress in this thread.

[chocolatecoatedballs]

Don't beg, it's so undignified.

I read your thread, enjoyed it, hope you do well this season and with your new tactic.

For me though a 4-4-2 has been easy, except for stronger teams where I would change to the christmas tree, I did ok that way.

But, I find it very difficult to replicate Bayern's way of playing, with essentialy 2 wide inside forwards, Robben and Ribbery, with Ribbery tending to cross more than Robben and Robben cutting in a lot, I do create a lot of chances, but out of 25 - 30 shots I'll get 1 -2 goals, the conversion rate is horrible, while I stop the opposition with their chances they seem to score every second shot they take lol. Yet my conversion rate with 4-4-2 with crossing wingers was a lot higher???

It's just my observation and maybe what I perceive to be ME weighted, may just be what I am better at setting up? But my players are creative and tallented enough.

[Com]

Don't beg, it's so undignified.

I read your thread, enjoyed it, hope you do well this season and with your new tactic.

For me though a 4-4-2 has been easy, except for stronger teams where I would change to the christmas tree, I did ok that way.

But, I find it very difficult to replicate Bayern's way of playing, with essentialy 2 wide inside forwards, Robben and Ribbery, with Ribbery tending to cross more than Robben and Robben cutting in a lot, I do create a lot of chances, but out of 25 - 30 shots I'll get 1 -2 goals, the conversion rate is horrible, while I stop the opposition with their chances they seem to score every second shot they take lol. Yet my conversion rate with 4-4-2 with crossing wingers was a lot higher???

It's just my observation and maybe what I perceive to be ME weighted, may just be what I am better at setting up? But my players are creative and tallented enough.

Actually, from my save with Bayern, Ribery and Robben as inside forwards works perfectly. They had tons of goals and assists. Most of them outstaning long shot strikes. I don't really know why somebody would want to keep robben or Ribery mind, as they spend a giant amount of time in the nurses office and their attributes decline. They are 28-29 years of age, sell them asap for 35-40m

The reason wingers will always work better is because on counter attacks, their crosses usually result in a point blank shot with the gk at the near post. The through passes from inside forwards however, results in a one on one, and FM rules dictate that 8/10 times the gk will parry it.

[T-Bag]

I am enjoying the game a lot but can't help feel something is amiss because there's not really much of a challenge.

I started off in BSN with no players and pretty much every season i've tonked every team in sight and won the league. Each season I just sign a new team of players and again, off I go and win the league or at least hit the automatic spot. I'm currently in the Championship with a total wage bill of 40k and again, beating everyone in sight! It's rather sad that only 1,000 fans can cram into my tiny stadium to watch my team. My team rep is lower than half the teams in League 1 !

The issue for me is the same as it has been for a while now. You don't actually need good players to win matches on FM. So long as you sign players with a few key attributes that's all you need. Physical attributes still win over everything else and mental/technical attributes can all but be ignored. They are just like an added luxory if you have money to spend, but they aren't really required.

I'm playing exactly the same tactics/formation and applying the same prinicples I was when playing FM Live a year or so ago now and nothing much seems to have changed. I've not made a single tactical change in 6 seasons, I ignore all player interaction and press conferences because there's simply no need to do it. (and it's a bit boring)

Winning matches is simply down to a few key attributes and maintaining some form... that's it. The problem is, it's hard to forget what you know. I could start playing a different formation and I could start signing players because they look good rather than because I know they will score 50 goals a season.... but it's hard to do that!

[shirajzl]

You shouldn't ignore mental attributes, but I agree on technical ones.

[wally13]

I am enjoying the game a lot but can't help feel something is amiss because there's not really much of a challenge.

I started off in BSN with no players and pretty much every season i've tonked every team in sight and won the league. Each season I just sign a new team of players and again, off I go and win the league or at least hit the automatic spot. I'm currently in the Championship with a total wage bill of 40k and again, beating everyone in sight! It's rather sad that only 1,000 fans can cram into my tiny stadium to watch my team. My team rep is lower than half the teams in League 1 !

The issue for me is the same as it has been for a while now. You don't actually need good players to win matches on FM. So long as you sign players with a few key attributes that's all you need. Physical attributes still win over everything else and mental/technical attributes can all but be ignored. They are just like an added luxory if you have money to spend, but they aren't really required.

I'm playing exactly the same tactics/formation and applying the same prinicples I was when playing FM Live a year or so ago now and nothing much seems to have changed. I've not made a single tactical change in 6 seasons, I ignore all player interaction and press conferences because there's simply no need to do it. (and it's a bit boring)

Winning matches is simply down to a few key attributes and maintaining some form... that's it. The problem is, it's hard to forget what you know. I could start playing a different formation and I could start signing players because they look good rather than because I know they will score 50 goals a season.... but it's hard to do that!

Are you using 21.1.1 patch ?

[BiggusD]

I am enjoying the game a lot but can't help feel something is amiss because there's not really much of a challenge.

I started off in BSN with no players and pretty much every season i've tonked every team in sight and won the league. Each season I just sign a new team of players and again, off I go and win the league or at least hit the automatic spot. I'm currently in the Championship with a total wage bill of 40k and again, beating everyone in sight! It's rather sad that only 1,000 fans can cram into my tiny stadium to watch my team. My team rep is lower than half the teams in League 1 !

The issue for me is the same as it has been for a while now. You don't actually need good players to win matches on FM. So long as you sign players with a few key attributes that's all you need. Physical attributes still win over everything else and mental/technical attributes can all but be ignored. They are just like an added luxory if you have money to spend, but they aren't really required.

I'm playing exactly the same tactics/formation and applying the same prinicples I was when playing FM Live a year or so ago now and nothing much seems to have changed. I've not made a single tactical change in 6 seasons, I ignore all player interaction and press conferences because there's simply no need to do it. (and it's a bit boring)

Winning matches is simply down to a few key attributes and maintaining some form... that's it. The problem is, it's hard to forget what you know. I could start playing a different formation and I could start signing players because they look good rather than because I know they will score 50 goals a season.... but it's hard to do that!

This is pretty much what happened in my Bradford save as well, but Premier League is more of a challenge. I guess it will take me a few seasons to win it. So keep going, and you will finally encounter superior teams. With that stadium, you will have economic limitations that will slow you down in PL.

[Erimus1876]

I am enjoying the game a lot but can't help feel something is amiss because there's not really much of a challenge.

I started off in BSN with no players and pretty much every season i've tonked every team in sight and won the league. Each season I just sign a new team of players and again, off I go and win the league or at least hit the automatic spot. I'm currently in the Championship with a total wage bill of 40k and again, beating everyone in sight! It's rather sad that only 1,000 fans can cram into my tiny stadium to watch my team. My team rep is lower than half the teams in League 1 !

The issue for me is the same as it has been for a while now. You don't actually need good players to win matches on FM. So long as you sign players with a few key attributes that's all you need. Physical attributes still win over everything else and mental/technical attributes can all but be ignored. They are just like an added luxory if you have money to spend, but they aren't really required.

I'm playing exactly the same tactics/formation and applying the same prinicples I was when playing FM Live a year or so ago now and nothing much seems to have changed. I've not made a single tactical change in 6 seasons, I ignore all player interaction and press conferences because there's simply no need to do it. (and it's a bit boring)

Winning matches is simply down to a few key attributes and maintaining some form... that's it. The problem is, it's hard to forget what you know. I could start playing a different formation and I could start signing players because they look good rather than because I know they will score 50 goals a season.... but it's hard to do that!

I completely agree with this. I realised this when playing FM11, especially about the over-powered physical attributes and attributes in general not being the be-all and end-all when it comes to (human) team building. However instead of giving up on FM I looked for ways to make my game challenging - I tried FMRTE (by improving rival clubs' squads), LLM rules, imposing artificial rules on myself to level the playing field with my AI opponents etc... Eventually I settled on removing the whole attribute thing from my game completely and began playing with full fog of war with an attribute hiding skin.

Now my team building boils down to effective use of scouts but more importantly - my own assessment of how good or bad I perceive a player to be by actually watching him play instead of getting an instant snapshot via attribute panels etc. I still use scouts to identify potential transfer targets, but before deciding wether to take a risk in buying them, I'll go watch transfer targets play for their respective clubs, or bring them in on trial for a few games and make my own assessments. I have no idea what their physical, mental, or technical attributes are, and never will - I base my opinion of them by how they perform in 3d matches, what their average ratings are, and their playing history (apps / goals etc), and what their personalites are. Basically removing about 90% of the non-subjective info we normally get handed to us on a silver plate and replacing it with my own subjective interpretations, intuition, and past experiences playing FM.

For me its more challenging and rewarding buidling a team based purely on my own assessments rather than that based on attribute panels etc. I still have success, but it takes much much longer to achieve and there's crucially plenty of mid-table seasons and the odd relegation thown in along the way, so its not for everyone (probably appeal to long term career players). It may be worth a try to bring a bit of challenge back to your game - especially with the 12.1.1 patch, which is a massive improvement imho

Here's a link for the no attribute skin if you're interested...

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/286772-Can-you-actually-turn-off-the-attribute-panel?p=7342961&viewfull=1#post7342961

[shirajzl]

So what physical attributes are we talking about? Just pace and acceleration for everyone?

[Govnar1]

So what physical attributes are we talking about? Just pace and acceleration for everyone?

+ balance, agility and strength + one or two players with high jumping to exploit corners and free kicks

[T-Bag]

It depends on the posistion and what style you are trying to play really, it's not all about pace and acceleration. For example, pace isn't so important for a DC (although you don't want one who's too slow either, so anything above say 10-11 should be ok) but you just need to look for jumping/strength mainly but it's useful to have other physical attributes fairly rounded for this position. But by contrast if i'm looking for a DL or a DR the only thing I filter on is pace and acceleration. My current DR only has 2 technical attributes in double figures (Championship level) and he performs just fine. There's no hard and fast rule and it still does require some knowledge and skill? to work out which players can perform in certain posistions.

I don't think I could have the patience to play with a skin hiding all the attributes though, but good effort on that! I don't really watch the games in enough detail to make my own judgements on players without seeing their atts and stats.

[Cilio]

The game is so easy :S

Cant play this..

[dking]

Well after playing four seasons I can officialy say that the game is now ridiculously easy, and by far the easiest recent FM version. I've won everything there is to win for four years. I've NEVER been able to do that with world class teams from the start of the game. Also, the amount of brilliant regens now is daft so not only does the game start easily, it just gets easier and easier.

I guess I'll start a new game with some crappy club and no money, but I already know that after two or three seasons (if that), I'll be in the top flight sitting in the top four, if not top.

People can dress it up all they like but the simple fact remains that it's way too easy now.