FM2012 difficulty.

[milnerpoint]

Even if they can i dont see the huge problem, the finacial benefits will be minimal and the big teams wont be overly interested in playing young players anyway.

[ReggaeBwoy]

TBH, you have a point but to see a club like Barcelona having a parent club just seems quite comical. Bayern one of the teams who are doing really well financially, would be silly to have a parent club.

[milnerpoint]

Yeah it would effect the realism side of things and yes your right none of these teams should have one, but for my Aberdeen team i had spurs as a feeder club, in 8 years i got 5 players on loan overall, and i got £50k a year from them, barely noticeable to my small team, for Barca and such it would be almost completely unnoticeable.

[ReggaeBwoy]

Your right, pretty decent, not too much of a problem

[Keyzer Soze]

Well,

I gotta say... if you wanted a harder FM... you got it!

Been playing the game, with my tactic... having some sucess. New patch comes out... ok... gonna start a new save game.

New game, new patch... same tactic... defeat after defeat!

The team talks... i feel the best is just dont say nothing... because any thing i say leave the players stress out or like they dont give a **** (switch off)!

Unbelievable... it's the first time that a patch simple ruined the game for me!

I would think that the ideia was balance the game, not making impossible to motive your players before or after a game!

[John Schofield]

BTW, with the bug of being a big club and having the option to choose a parent club does anyone know if computer based teams do this as this will be really off-putting, or is it just an option that the AI does not do?

You can ask for a parent club it doesn't mean the board will agree to you having one.

[PaulC]

Well,

I gotta say... if you wanted a harder FM... you got it!

Been playing the game, with my tactic... having some sucess. New patch comes out... ok... gonna start a new save game.

New game, new patch... same tactic... defeat after defeat!

The team talks... i feel the best is just dont say nothing... because any thing i say leave the players stress out or like they dont give a **** (switch off)!

Unbelievable... it's the first time that a patch simple ruined the game for me!

I would think that the ideia was balance the game, not making impossible to motive your players before or after a game!

I wouldnt read too much into the "switch off" reaction - it really doesnt make a vast difference as long as they arent totally unhappy. Besides, I always say with team talks, if you dont have something that really must be said, best say nothing!

Out of interest, what team and starting rep? What is your record so far?

[Keyzer Soze]

I wouldnt read too much into the "switch off" reaction - it really doesnt make a vast difference as long as they arent totally unhappy. Besides, I always say with team talks, if you dont have something that really must be said, best say nothing!

Out of interest, what team and starting rep? What is your record so far?

Playing with Benfica, have a National reputation.

The problem is, previous the patch the team played well. It's not like the win all the time, but they play well!

Now, sometimes they seem 11 stupid man on the pitch making wrong decisions after wrong decisions.

I really see a huge difference, and if the ME didn't have any major tweak, i'm with the same tactic... the only thing that's left is morale.

Now, the player have a overall morale ok, but for example in my last game my striker score 2 goals in the first half, and at half time he was "abismal" :confused:

[PaulC]

It may be your team was on a morale level unsustainable in the 12.1 code. What is your record since you started playing 12.1?

[Keyzer Soze]

It may be your team was on a morale level unsustainable in the 12.1 code. What is your record since you started playing 12.1?

I start a new game since i install patch 12.1

i played so far 9 games, 5 wins, 3 draws and 1 lost

But again, i must say it again, it's not the results that i'm worry about, it's the quality of the football that they play.

Same tactic, same team, but a huge difference.

[BiggusD]

I start a new game since i install patch 12.1

i played so far 9 games, 5 wins, 3 draws and 1 lost

But again, i must say it again, it's not the results that i'm worry about, it's the quality of the football that they play.

Same tactic, same team, but a huge difference.

This, a friend of mine experienced yesterday as well. His tactic that made him win Serie A with Napoli with a clear margin first season, then go 10 matches unbeaten in the second season, became useless overnight. A bit of the form dip happened before the new patch but afterwards everything became much worse.

Some tactics thrive more on form and motivation than others, so maybe yours (and his) were more that kind of tactic than you thought.

I haven't noticed anything negative after the patch - rather the opposite!

[milnerpoint]

Some tactics thrive more on form and motivation than others, so maybe yours (and his) were more that kind of tactic than you thought.

I think we will see a lot of threads on here over the next few weeks because of that. Its not ment as a dig at any users but i bet we see this complaint a lot because of tactics relying on good moral from a few key players.

[Keyzer Soze]

Some tactics thrive more on form and motivation than others, so maybe yours (and his) were more that kind of tactic than you thought.!

I think this is your polite way to say... my tactic is no good!

Perhaps you are right! Perhaps i could win with the last patch because the players got into a morale hype, and not because of my tactical knowledge.

Gonna try and review my tactic.

@milnerpoint: you could bet on it!

[milnerpoint]

Like i say bud im not in anyway having a dig or anything at your or your tactics, its a very easy thing to end up with in FM, it took me a long while to get a tactic i think doesnt really rely on moral, and a lot of reading threads on here, and i still know only bits and pieces

[shirajzl]

Brace yourselves. The "you ruined the game, it's too difficult now" threads are coming.

[wally13]

Brace yourselves. The "you ruined the game, it's too difficult now" threads are coming.

Was inevitable

[pigfacemonkeyman]

You can ask for a parent club it doesn't mean the board will agree to you having one.

Nice sidestep.

Is this included deliberately (big teams sinking in long term saves maybe), or an accident that you have given some spin? Come clean now.

[flauta kicma]

It is more difficult now, but - if I didnt started as Sunday League player, whether the level of hardness would be the same?

Because, every team talk is going badly to me now so i wanna know what would happen if I started again with automatic on my experience - should game then be with better team talks but with same hardness on the match?

Sorry for english, I hope you will understand me.

[PaulC]

I think Automatic is still quite a low world reputation, and may not make so much difference when managing the biggest teams.

[Guest]

I was under the impression that automatic gave you a mean average reputation for your nationality (Automatic & English > Automatic & Cypriot) when starting unemployed, I certainly found it easier to get jobs using auto rep over Sunday league & some of those jobs would be with some large teams.

Also, good work on the minor ME tweaks & player morale, I've only played a few games after updating but can already notice the subtle changes have had a positive impact on the game, if you could fix (non)marking at throw-ins I'd be a very happy fella.

[flauta kicma]

Thanks guys, I was just wondering about this because I wanted to know if the game is harder only because of this reputation thing.

[Keyzer Soze]

The game is harder because, now, with low reputation is harder to motivate your players with team talks.

i believe that milnerpoint and BiggusD were right about the "tactics thrive more on form and motivation".

After having lot's of problems winning after the patch instalation, i've decided to start a new game and give my tactic a major review.

Current save game, going really well... in fact too well, with the players playing really good football... despite not being on a morale hype!

[x42bn6]

It might be a little easier for some, as the AI no longer has violent mood swings, so a team fighting relegation (and consequently has low morale) no longer gets a huge boost from an unexpected win over the reigning champions. So if you play them next, they will only have a slightly boosted performance as opposed to a morale-through-the-roof-therefore-we-will-thrash-you performance.

[hursty2]

Corners are definitely a lot less accurate now...I haven't scored from one since the patch.

It also means that players other than my CB's get a chance to score from them.

[andu1]

Difficulty is good now. Started with Real Madrid with lowest rep possible and winning is not so easy anymore, games are actually a challange. I am happy so far.

[lee_uk]

im truly happy now after the latest update...the morale issue is now harder to manage

[Llew_Arshavin23]

So, to sum it all up, does this patch rectify the difficulty problems in FM 2012?

Made a PSG save recently, beat Lorient 7-0 and that then lead to me to promptly delete the save. I know things like that can happen but, Diego Lugano scored a debut hat-trick!

[BiggusD]

So, to sum it all up, does this patch rectify the difficulty problems in FM 2012?

Made a PSG save recently, beat Lorient 7-0 and that then lead to me to promptly delete the save. I know things like that can happen but, Diego Lugano scored a debut hat-trick!

The morale fluctuates more between Fairly Poor and Good, and it is not so easy getting positive results from team talks anymore. In other words, you need to work harder to maintain a winning streak than before.

I haven't started a new game yet, so I wouldn't know the effects of starting with a low reputation.

I seem less dangerous on corners and the AI seems more dangerous. Maybe it tilted a bit too much the other way? I scored the first goal of the weekend on set pieces after setting the aim to Far Post (from mixed). I set it to Mixed to avoid unrealistic central defender goal statistics in the first place.

It may seem like 12.1.0 harmed tactics that thrived on Superb morale and the winning streak flow. I don't have much evidence to support that claim, though.

[Nuttall986]

The game is way too easy if you use the right tactic.

Oldham Athletic - Won league one and the St Johnstones cup in first season, didnt buy any players, only lost 5 games all season.

Seriously thinking of going back to FM 2011, there have been alot of improvements but so far a step back in my opinion, please make this game more realistic!

[milnerpoint]

I honestly dont know why you bothered Paul, as usual this place turns into a crazy world when a patch is released and things change.

Anyway my feed back from the first 6 months of the patch.

Moral is much harder to keep ontop of now, you actually have to think about the team talk and context you give it in for each game, which is a huge plus for me, now choosing assertive team talks will not always give you the reaction you hoped for. Each game requires more thought than it did before, same goes for private chats, i am more careful about having a jerk reaction aggressive convo with a player who has played poorly.

In ME terms, corners are now less effective, perhaps too ineffective at times, i've gone from scoring every few games to about 2/3 headed corner goals in 6 months, scored a few from lower corners so its hard to tell if they are too nerfed overall. IDFK's seem to follow the same suit.

What i have noticed and it could be completely coincidental but my players seem more willing to attempt wonder goals, my right winger tackled a player about 20 yards inside our own half and immediately took a shot which floated over the keeper who was rightly on the edge of his box, it was prob the best goal ever scored in football, if i could figure out how to get it on youtube i would, i have also scored a few other wonder goals i never saw before the patch, not really complaining as long as they are not too regular.

Overall i personally think you have improved things, long winning streaks are harder to achieve and i like the fact that beating lower teams doesnt push me up to superb moral constantly, i havent started a new game and have no interest to do so i cant really comment what its like to begin with.

[Miek]

Morale fixes seem good! Thanks SI for listening to the community.

[lee_uk]

yup...im finding the morale situation way better..its tough to get a good reaction from certain players and for me more realistic...i did start a new game to try it out and well impressed...good work SI

[BSX]

Interaction in 12.1 is VERY BAD IMO

in 12.0.4 interaction wasn't good, but now it is worse.

even in 12.0.4 the main part of players reacted negative on every interaction (tutoring, PPM's and others)

I don't think players IRL will start hating their manager because he tries to improve them

but it was the case in 12.0.4 and in 12.1 it is 100 x worse

[milnerpoint]

Do you have to post the same thing in every thread you can find?

[BSX]

it just is the truth

[milnerpoint]

no its your opinion, big difference, as you can clearly see others are happy, your point of view is not the only one that exists, but even then, why do you feel the need to fill everythread with the same post?

[Casual]

I have to say that the game has finally got me jumping in my seat and cheering when I score. It didn't have that precious FM effect before this patch since it was too damn easy. Now I took Dortmund as a sunday-league reputation manager and after 10 matches I'm on the 5th spot and i'm really fighting for every game.

Although I can't sell a player to another club (what happened?), I have to say thank you SI for this update. I can play the game I loved again.

[ReggaeBwoy]

Interaction in 12.1 is VERY BAD IMO

in 12.0.4 interaction wasn't good, but now it is worse.

even in 12.0.4 the main part of players reacted negative on every interaction (tutoring, PPM's and others)

I don't think players IRL will start hating their manager because he tries to improve them

but it was the case in 12.0.4 and in 12.1 it is 100 x worse

Not entirely true. It is reported that the fallout between Mancini and Tevez started when Mancini gave Mancini started doubling the amount of training sessions they have.

[Casual]

Actually when you play for a bit, interaction becomes better. After about 6 months, I rarely have any bad reactions in my team when I praise them or tell em I have faith. They either don't react or they react positive. The "unrealistic" reactions are obviously only an initial syndrom when you take over a big club with a small manger reputation.

[Reccy]

The morale situation has changed the enjoyment for me, its gone too far backwards, If your players are only "Fairly Happy" by winning the league when they were near the bottom of the table for a quarter of the season, then obviously something is wrong with the mechanics.

[lee_uk]

Actually when you play for a bit, interaction becomes better. After about 6 months, I rarely have any bad reactions in my team when I praise them or tell em I have faith. They either don't react or they react positive. The "unrealistic" reactions are obviously only an initial syndrom when you take over a big club with a small manger reputation.

This!!!

after a few months certain players are now reacting to my talks....really enjoying this game so much now

[rpvw]

Bug or not, can someone explain how it can be that morale significantly drops after patch 12.1, while I'm a manager with World Class reputation who has spent last 6-7 seasons at the same club, favoured by much of his players playing a great season (33 played, 28w, 5d, 0l in the league, 9 won, 1 draw in the CL). Or is this just the game 'balancing' itself?

[BiggusD]

Bug or not, can someone explain how it can be that morale significantly drops after patch 12.1, while I'm a manager with World Class reputation who has spent last 6-7 seasons at the same club, favoured by much of his players playing a great season (33 played, 28w, 5d, 0l in the league, 9 won, 1 draw in the CL). Or is this just the game 'balancing' itself?

The patch is designed to keep morale out of Superb territory for prolonged periods of time because having that yielded unrealistic overperformance and maintaining it was too easy.

So yes, it is the game just balancing itself. I have seen reports of relegation candidates winning the league but still not having particularly good morale, so there is probably a need of more balancing in the coming updates.

[Reccy]

The patch is designed to keep morale out of Superb territory for prolonged periods of time because having that yielded unrealistic overperformance and maintaining it was too easy.

So yes, it is the game just balancing itself. I have seen reports of relegation candidates winning the league but still not having particularly good morale, so there is probably a need of more balancing in the coming updates.

I understand the need to tone down the "Superb" morale side of things during a season, but i cannot see why all of my players are good to poor in terms of Morale when I took over the club who were in dire straights and not far from bottom to breaking records and surpassing expectations of both staff and players alike and winning the league.

Some people has tried to justify this with demotivation, its a feature not a fault, blah blah blah!! It all gone to pish

[rpvw]

The patch is designed to keep morale out of Superb territory for prolonged periods of time because having that yielded unrealistic overperformance and maintaining it was too easy.

So yes, it is the game just balancing itself. I have seen reports of relegation candidates winning the league but still not having particularly good morale, so there is probably a need of more balancing in the coming updates.

There's a difference between keeping morale out of the superb zone and letting it drop to fairly poor for stars players who have been in absolutely amazing form throughout the whole season. 12.1 has brought a lot of great changes and I'm not crying foul (cause I understand that developing/updating a game is difficult as hell), but this morale thing imho is not a step forward.

[Kriss]

I decided to start a new save because of the changes and I'm finding things very realistic running a second division team in Colombia, I have a few individuals who seemed to always buck the trend in reaction to team talks but after 3 seasons of careful watching I've managed to suss what makes them tick pretty well.

We're not winning anything just holding our heads up but I don't find morale affecting performances very much at all.

[BiggusD]

I understand the need to tone down the "Superb" morale side of things during a season, but i cannot see why all of my players are good to poor in terms of Morale when I took over the club who were in dire straights and not far from bottom to breaking records and surpassing expectations of both staff and players alike and winning the league.

Some people has tried to justify this with demotivation, its a feature not a fault, blah blah blah!! It all gone to pish

I doubt that SI has coded "oversatisfaction" into the game. You know - in RL some players are so happy with themselves after victory that they lose focus. This I don't think is coded into the "morale engine". So as I said above, there is probably a need for more balance here, especially regarding important victories and success with small clubs.

[Candre168]

Am I the only one who's found it impossible to get a result since Patch 12.1.0?

I updated half way through my second season with Napoli, I had a massive lead and only barely won the title. Decided to make a new save with Panathinaikos, and even the low end Greek teams were knocking my players around the park prompting me to rage quit.

Back to Napoli now (always had the intention of going back), and again, it's MUCH harder to get a result.

I agree the game was easy before, but it's much more difficult now...and morale is indeed a frustrating issue :confused:.

[Diegs]

I like the new patch, for what it's worth. I like the morale changes and the slight increase in difficulty. Corner trick is still massive which I find a little boring but at least the AI now get their fair share from corners too.

Only negative thing is the bug that's been acknowledged by SI that after a sub the view switches to 3D cam when watching in commentary only.

[Keyzer Soze]

My official 12.1 Patch feeback

I never had any issues about FM 2012.04 being too easy. In fact I thought that in compare with FM2011 this year game was quite a challenge.

I start playing the game with the tactic I use last year, and from the start it was obvious to me that FM2012 was harder in compare with FM2011. It was difficult to score, difficult to beat the big teams, difficult to avoid that odd defeat against a smaller team.

So when I start reading this thread with so many people complain that the game was too easy, and when I realize that SI was going to fix the “problem”, the first thought that cross my mind was …”kcuf… the game will be even harder?!?!?!”

Anyway, as I suspect when the patch was released, my team start playing much worse. Defeats against smaller teams, defeats against big teams… my players hate every piece of conversation I had with them, but the most frustrating thing was… the players on the pitch didn’t respect my instructions! They didn’t close down, they didn’t tackle… terrible to see!

So I did the normal thing… log on to the SI forum and complain!

A couple of users (BiggusD and milnerpoint) point out an interesting issue… that probably my tactic only work well in the previous patch because it was a tactic that need players with a great morale boost.

Rubbish? Actually it makes sense! A player really fired up will play much better, and will do things for the team that a complacent player (even if a better one) would never do.

With that in mind I decided to start a new save game, and rebuilt my tactic from the scratch.

After that new save game, I start another, and another, and another, and rebuilt my tactic again, and again, and again… until I finally got it.

In this current save game I have an overall record of 14 wins, 3 draws and only 1 lost. I have already beat teams like FC Bayern (something that I never did in the previous patch).

But the great about it, is that the game is harder now! It’s harder to score; it’s harder to have a big win. My players at start that give a kcuf about what I say… now… some of them (the ones with the lower reputation) are starting to get motivated with my words. It’s a slower process, I’m conquering my players one by one… it feels so real! 

So in conclusion, I must admit that, despite my reluctance, this patch really took the game to a higher level. It’s harder now… yes… but now I realize that it’s harder with logical!

Well Done SI!