FM2012 difficulty.

[FishBowlMan]

A very interesting thread. Thought I'd chip in.

Here's a shot taken just after preseason of my match preparation (if it appears):

Attributes improving nicely, I'm sure you'll agree. Tactics 1 and 2 are both 442, but #1 is a disciplined counter-attack setup and #2 is a more fluid standard setup. This obviously explains why the majority of values are similar. There's not a great deal of difference between the two.

What I find confusing are the values for tactic #3. Tactic #3 doesn't exist. I have never trained it and have not used another tactic during a match if I remember correctly. So what do these values represent? Are they various shouts that I've used? I've experimented with most of them throughout the preseason.

Anyone else experiencing this? It seems to fall within the remit of the game being easier than I was expecting as the players seem to be gaining knowledge of tactics that I know nothing about. I do have a "fairly professional" squad, so maybe they're spending the evenings doing background reading

[suckerkevin]

Isnt too easy.

Almost got the sack twice in my 2nd season and once in my 1st.

But in my 2nd season, spurs signed an unknown African striker. 28goals in 10+ apps? Before January even started.

Wayne rooney was at 14, and my Leandro Damio was 3rd at 13. How did he even hit 28? ._.

So Tottenham are top of the table. Same point as united, but top of table because of GD

[PoolFan]

I agree with the people saying it isn't to easy. The problem is you have a few select forums members who have been playing the game for years who know every trick in the book in regards to the ME and how to get results. Personally I have found this version of FM far more playable and enjoyable, it reminds me of the old Championship Manager games actually.

I can't help but feel after seeing Paul C reading comments from a few 'experts' that once again they will patch the game and basically ruin what in my opinion is the most fun version of FM series for a very long time. This whole topic brings up once again the whole difficult setting option. I for one see no reason why this cannot be implemented (linked to manager starting reputation maybe), either way it is clear you have a lot of people who really enjoy the full on technical aspect and ultra micromanagement of FM, and then you have others like me who like something simpler and yes easy.

[phnompenhandy]

After 13 pages of very fruitful discussion with SI, we now have people offering opinions who haven't bothered to read the thread. That makes those view utterly worthless and are just degrading the debate. Have a read of what people have actually done and discovered. Since it has proved to be extremely important to Paul Collyer himself, I don't think someone who hasn't bothered to understand the issues knows better than the creator of the game.

[hursty2]

After 13 pages of very fruitful discussion with SI, we now have people offering opinions who haven't bothered to read the thread. That makes those view utterly worthless and are just degrading the debate. Have a read of what people have actually done and discovered. Since it has proved to be extremely important to Paul Collyer himself, I don't think someone who hasn't bothered to understand the issues knows better than the creator of the game.

I'd love to read the Paul Collyer post's but I can't find them.

[PoolFan]

After 13 pages of very fruitful discussion with SI, we now have people offering opinions who haven't bothered to read the thread. That makes those view utterly worthless and are just degrading the debate. Have a read of what people have actually done and discovered. Since it has proved to be extremely important to Paul Collyer himself, I don't think someone who hasn't bothered to understand the issues knows better than the creator of the game.

I have read the thread and despite what a few so called FM experts are saying, I personally believe the game is WAY more fun this year than for a very long time. Now this maybe down to what you would call bugs but honestly I don't care. The last few versions of FM have seen the game become more and more inaccessible, this new version is a step in the right direction even if it is down to a few errors. You only have to look at the endless threads last year about the voodoo science of trying to motivate your team to see how frustrating people found it.

Correct me if I am wrong but didn't Paul C say himself that he needs to be VERY careful in what changes are made as it seemed a hell of a lot of people are actually loving this version of FM?

[PaulC]

That is indeed what I said.

If I can reduce human exploitation of corners where it occurs, and also reduce extremes of morale I think everyone will be happy. But so far we havent even started testing some of this internally.........

[Mitja]

I have read the thread and despite what a few so called FM experts are saying, I personally believe the game is WAY more fun this year than for a very long time. Now this maybe down to what you would call bugs but honestly I don't care. The last few versions of FM have seen the game become more and more inaccessible, this new version is a step in the right direction even if it is down to a few errors. You only have to look at the endless threads last year about the voodoo science of trying to motivate your team to see how frustrating people found it.

Correct me if I am wrong but didn't Paul C say himself that he needs to be VERY careful in what changes are made as it seemed a hell of a lot of people are actually loving this version of FM?

It's nice to hear you're enjoying. I share your wiew in many aspects and I believe that some things have finally been fixed. Problem as this thread shows is they're facing many different groups of people who want to play the game differently. While one group will be perfectly happy with winning by pressing continue button, others will expect more realistic game and more challange. I really don't see how to make both of these extreme groups satsified. Maybe a introduction of some kind of difficulty levels isn't such a bad idea afterall. Or even realising a new game FMPro A game which would satisfy both camps might be a good game but it will never be a brilliant one.

[Mitja]

That is indeed what I said.

If I can reduce human exploitation of corners where it occurs, and also reduce extremes of morale I think everyone will be happy. But so far we havent even started testing some of this internally.........

I would defenetly look at strikers scoring too much issue, if it's possible for FM12. It's probably far more game-breaking than the corner thing. The defending is really poor at the moment.

[jdrawmer]

It's the exploitation of holes in the ME that makes the game easier than others find it. It's easy to download a tactic from various forums that has bee successful, load it in and get results without doing very much. The ME will never be perfect, but there's clear improvement. I love this years match engine, and I build my own tactics and use the roles and shouts because I feel that way you're not exploiting any holes (unless you happen to stumble on one), and your tinkering makes a difference in the game.

[hursty2]

If you're against player naming do not read on. Although no key details revealed.

[font=courier new]PLAYER               POSITION     SHOTS/GOALS RATIO    %     PENS
Tomas Hubocan        RB           -                    -      -
Robert Huth          CB           4/21                 19     -
Kenwyne Jones        ST           4/21                 19     -
Andras Nagy          ST           2/3                  66     1
Felice Natalino      RB           -                    -      -
Wilson Palacios      CM           1/8                  12     1
Jermaine Pennant     RM           5/42                 11     -
Bjorne Helge Riise   RM           2/11                 18     -
Karim Rossi          ST           3/15                 20     -
Ryan Shawcross       CB           2/18                 11     -
Ryan Shotton         RB           0/2                   0     -
Darnel Situ          CB           8/19                 42     1
Johnathon Walters    ST           1/8                  12     -
Marc Wilson          CM           3/16                 18     2
Danny Collins        LB           1/1                 100     -  CORNER
Peter Crouch         ST           2/4                  50     -  NONE FROM CORNERS
Yassine              LM           4/40                 10     -
Rasmus Elm           CM           0/25                  0     -
Matthew Etherington  LM           3/33                  9     -
Rasmus Falk          ST           1/40                  2     -
Gary Hooper          ST           10/73                13     -[/font]

Alright this is after 50 games in a season with Stoke. Huth and Shawcross are my starting CB's and both assume the default roles of front post back post, Shawcross front, Huth back. I know for a fact that Shawcross scored all his goals from corners whilst Huth did score some long shots also. One player that is drastically skewed is Situ who has a percentage of goals to shots at 42%, and I know that he scored all but one from corners in a spell where he replaced an injured Shawcross. All these goals were scored from the FRONT post glancing the headers in, in between the keeper and the man on the post almost every time. Crouch being the big man he is, didn't score from corners at all.

Just my findings.

[hursty2]

And as I posted this Shawcross has scored 2 from a corner and a free-kick.

[Mitja]

It's the exploitation of holes in the ME that makes the game easier than others find it. It's easy to download a tactic from various forums that has bee successful, load it in and get results without doing very much. The ME will never be perfect, but there's clear improvement. I love this years match engine, and I build my own tactics and use the roles and shouts because I feel that way you're not exploiting any holes (unless you happen to stumble on one), and your tinkering makes a difference in the game.

The defensive part of ME is just far from attacking counterpart, which has been improved greatly over the last couple of years. I don't want to go into great detail about it, but defending just doesn't work properly. All the defense is 1on1 in FM, there's no team defense. Shots from everywhere every second minute or attack, scoring Maradona like goals after dribbling from own half, games with more than 40 even 50 shots, strikers like Crouch scoring 30+ goals in season....it all happens too frequantly. And it's not only becouse of exploits people are using.

[phnompenhandy]

That is indeed what I said.

If I can reduce human exploitation of corners where it occurs, and also reduce extremes of morale I think everyone will be happy. But so far we havent even started testing some of this internally.........

Paul, please be very clear, this is NOT an intentional human exploitation like in previous versions; this is happening on default settings where the human manager has no idea why so many goals are being scored.

Poolfan, for me a key issue that sets this thread apart from many others is that it is a mature discussion. I ignore the many rant threads about how people hate the game, worst ever, rubbish ME etc etc. Nobody in this thread is saying that. Like most other contributors here, I believe FM12 to be the best version ever, but it is not flawless, and we have identified some problems for which PaulC, Riz Remes, wwfan and others involved in creating the game are grateful and want to put right.

[milnerpoint]

I dont think paul is meaning intentional exploitation, the standard set ups seem to be the ones doing the most damage, but since the AI does not use the same standard set ups as we do, it does not benefit from the problem.

[phnompenhandy]

Alright this is after 50 games in a season with Stoke. Huth and Shawcross are my starting CB's and both assume the default roles of front post back post, Shawcross front, Huth back. I know for a fact that Shawcross scored all his goals from corners whilst Huth did score some long shots also. One player that is drastically skewed is Situ who has a percentage of goals to shots at 42%, and I know that he scored all but one from corners in a spell where he replaced an injured Shawcross. All these goals were scored from the FRONT post glancing the headers in, in between the keeper and the man on the post almost every time. Crouch being the big man he is, didn't score from corners at all.

Just my findings.

As you rightly identify, Situ's stats are problematic; the others are all within the realms of reasonableness. wwfan who is doing the testing is trying to isolate which ket attribute or combination of attribute and positioning is the cause. You've mentioned that Situ is set to attack near post; what are his jump/head/strength/anticipation/off the ball attributes? I think this info might help.

[hursty2]

Jumping: 16

Heading: 15

Strength: 16

Anticipation: 15

Off The Ball: 8

Which suggests he's a beast.

[FishBowlMan]

All these goals were scored from the FRONT post glancing the headers in, in between the keeper and the man on the post almost every time.

This is exactly the issue I'm having. Here's an example from a preseason friendly. I am Luton (Conference) against Preston (league 1):

[video=youtube;Wg2xIZhhFDw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg2xIZhhFDw

Antwi at the near post has got himself completely free of his marker, running towards the inswinging near-post corner. He has a free header and scores.

There is terrible marking from the AI at this corner. Why do Preston have 2 people on the edge of the 18 yard box doing absolutely nothing? Why has the man on the far post suddenly run towards the penalty spot?

It seems to me that the defenders and goal keeper are completely unaware of Antwi's prescence, and that the corner is aimed at the near post, thus anyone attacking this side of the pitch is posing a threat.

Look closely at the Keeper's actions. When he finally works out the trajectory of the ball, he runs towards the edge of the 6 yard box, right in the middle of the goal, presumably to be in a position to catch the ball. He has not worked out there is a danger posed by the attacking player. He either has not seen him, or assumes that he will miss the ball and wants to be in a position to catch the cross.

After the ball is headed, the keeper tries to move back to the goal line, only to bang into the person who has left his back post position.

My guess is that something is wrong with the decision making of the goalkeeper. Surely he should anticipate the main danger is from the attacking player at the near post and position himself accordingly. If the attacker misses the ball, then he must rely on a defender to clear the danger, and get himself in position to deal with the next threat.

I have noticed this behaviour many times from the AI goalkeeper dealing with corners and general crosses where an attacker gets in front of where he wants to position himself to catch the ball.

[phnompenhandy]

To be fair, it is a pre-season friendly. This is when players are just starting to be familiar with the manager's tactics and instructions. I see any amount of defensive howlers on both sides in pre-season.

[jdrawmer]

i've been scoring heads like this all season, and although it seems to be a glitch, I don't want to NOT do it, just beacuse it's getting me a lot of freak goals. I worked on the set pieces myself so feel I deserve it!

There's always going to be exploits it's just whether you choose to exploit them. If I find my own exploits, I use them - if I read about exploits, I tend not to

[FishBowlMan]

To be fair, it is a pre-season friendly. This is when players are just starting to be familiar with the manager's tactics and instructions. I see any amount of defensive howlers on both sides in pre-season.

Agree with that. Its happened all season though. This just happened to be a good uncluttered video to demonstrate the principle. I've scored 11 corners in similar fashion in about 20 games, as well as several goals from crosses with the keeper basically not positioning himself properly, but coming out to collect the cross as if the attacker wasn't there and presenting an open net for a header or tap in.

[FishBowlMan]

There's always going to be exploits it's just whether you choose to exploit them.

Its happening a lot with standard crosses as well as corners though. Unless I force my side to play purely through the middle, I'm going to score a lot more of these type of goals than I should be getting. Result is undeserved wins and sky high morale leading to more goals, more undeserved wins etc etc

[BiggusD]

The standard attacking corner tactic is exploitative because it is set up intentionally to draw everyone away from the two CD's who are attacking the near and far posts. They typically have only one opponent near them, and that is in my experience typically their shortest player.

As long as the defending corner instructions are so generalized as they are, and marking their one main aerial threat with two or more players remain impossible, corner kicks will continue to be unbalanced in this game.

Besides, too many good corner kicks come from players who are not good at corner kick taking. Making that attribute more sensitive would fix part of this problem. 15+ 1/3 hits target, 11-14 1/5 hits target, 6-10 1/10 hits target, 1-5 doesn't target... I say why not?

[FishBowlMan]

The standard attacking corner tactic is exploitative because it is set up intentionally to draw everyone away from the two CD's who are attacking the near and far posts. They typically have only one opponent near them, and that is in my experience typically their shortest player.

As long as the defending corner instructions are so generalized as they are, and marking their one main aerial threat with two or more players remain impossible, corner kicks will continue to be unbalanced in this game.

Besides, too many good corner kicks come from players who are not good at corner kick taking. Making that attribute more sensitive would fix part of this problem. 15+ 1/3 hits target, 11-14 1/5 hits target, 6-10 1/10 hits target, 1-5 doesn't target... I say why not?

That doesn't address why the keeper reacts the way he does though. His movement seems to take him in a straight line out towards the penalty spot to catch the ball, completely ignoring the attacking threat between him and the ball. He only changes direction to get back into his goal after the ball has been headed into the now empty net. If there was no attacking player coming in for a near post corner, that would make sense, but he seems completely unaware of the attacking threat and still wanders out to catch the cross as though he's in the pre-match warm up.

I could understand it if the attacking player just managed beat him to the ball, but there's often 5 or 6 yards between him and the attacker, often with a completely clear view.

[phnompenhandy]

The standard attacking corner tactic is exploitative because it is set up intentionally to draw everyone away from the two CD's who are attacking the near and far posts. They typically have only one opponent near them, and that is in my experience typically their shortest player.

As long as the defending corner instructions are so generalized as they are, and marking their one main aerial threat with two or more players remain impossible, corner kicks will continue to be unbalanced in this game.

Besides, too many good corner kicks come from players who are not good at corner kick taking. Making that attribute more sensitive would fix part of this problem. 15+ 1/3 hits target, 11-14 1/5 hits target, 6-10 1/10 hits target, 1-5 doesn't target... I say why not?

Yes, that's something VERY specific that PaulC can look at - how do AI defenders set themselves up in defending corners? My best corner-taker has 11 for corners; fewer should hit the mark. Manageable tweaks, I would have thought.

[Äktsjon Männ]

15+ 1/3 hits target, 11-14 1/5 hits target, 6-10 1/10 hits target, 1-5 doesn't target... I say why not?

Surely can't be made *that* simplistic. How would lower league teams score from set pieces?

[PaulC]

It certainly isn't that simplistic. Getting the stats to match up to RL across the various levels we simulate means it's a constant balancing act.

[grep]

That is indeed what I said.

If I can reduce human exploitation of corners where it occurs, and also reduce extremes of morale I think everyone will be happy. But so far we havent even started testing some of this internally.........

Does that mean the first patch will miss anything related to difficulty/easiness issue ?

[Kaiser_Tottenham]

Hampton & Richamond Borough ( First season )

Media Prediction : click here

After 24 games : click here

can't say anymore ...

[ReggaeBwoy]

Hardly reveals anything, Bournemouth irl got to the play-offs last season despite being tipped for relegation due to a lack of funds and only a limited amount of players where it was often the case they had to field reserve/youth players.

[BiggusD]

It certainly isn't that simplistic. Getting the stats to match up to RL across the various levels we simulate means it's a constant balancing act.

Yeah but hitting the target doesn't equal a goal. Missing the target doesn't equal no goal either. Players that are not good set piece takers should not be able to aim at one head 2 meters in the air from 30 meters away with enough force to allow the target to hit a good, forceful header at goal almost every time he attempts it. No let me correct that; players that are not -fantastic- set piece takers should not be able to do this at all. The difference between success and failure when the target is so small and midways into a trajectory is microscopic. We're talking calculations that would put shame to the stuff they do at NASA here. This, set piece takers practice at day in and day out for years and even decades.

The rest of us just whip it in aiming at a general area and with an attempted curve... and the force of that kick is the maximum we dare to do because we know that our technique doesn't allow any more - too much force and the ball's in orbit.

Once we have kicked the ball into that general area, the rest is up to the players in the box.

What set piece experts do is, as explained above, an entirely different story. FM needs to reflect this for the sake of realism and I believe it would fix the amount of corner goals, but not entirely - not until the set piece instructions also reflect real life by allowing multiple markers of the main aerial threats.

[Erimus1876]

Hardly reveals anything, Bournemouth irl got to the play-offs last season despite being tipped for relegation due to a lack of funds and only a limited amount of players where it was often the case they had to field reserve/youth players.

Don't make it out to be something that can be so easily dismissed because Bournemouth did it IRL. Read the thread. That is not a one-off. Its typical of the type of seasons those complaining of an easy game are expriencing, and suspected to be caused by some of the insightful information garnered later in this thread (info SI are looking at to find a solution that will suit all).

[PaulC]

Yeah but hitting the target doesn't equal a goal. Missing the target doesn't equal no goal either. Players that are not good set piece takers should not be able to aim at one head 2 meters in the air from 30 meters away with enough force to allow the target to hit a good, forceful header at goal almost every time he attempts it. No let me correct that; players that are not -fantastic- set piece takers should not be able to do this at all. The difference between success and failure when the target is so small and midways into a trajectory is microscopic. We're talking calculations that would put shame to the stuff they do at NASA here. This, set piece takers practice at day in and day out for years and even decades.

The rest of us just whip it in aiming at a general area and with an attempted curve... and the force of that kick is the maximum we dare to do because we know that our technique doesn't allow any more - too much force and the ball's in orbit.

Once we have kicked the ball into that general area, the rest is up to the players in the box.

What set piece experts do is, as explained above, an entirely different story. FM needs to reflect this for the sake of realism and I believe it would fix the amount of corner goals, but not entirely - not until the set piece instructions also reflect real life by allowing multiple markers of the main aerial threats.

I agree with this, and have made delivery tougher to achieve for the next update.

But there are elements of set pieces that cant be addressed until we rework ball and player physics, which we are working towards but have no release year pencilled in for yet.

[Loversleaper]

I agree with this, and have made delivery tougher to achieve for the next update.

But there are elements of set pieces that cant be addressed until we rework ball and player physics, which we are working towards but have no release year pencilled in for yet.

I am sorry to bang on about the Match Preparation, but I think it would be a good idea for Riz to sit down with the people who program Training and maybe come up with some way to link 'familiarity' with the training regimes. It would maybe open up for more options so that the Shouts don't become contradictory in existance, maybe bigger clubs (players with higher stamina/quality/facilities, or something in those lines) can handle larger training regimes thus opening more options...

[phnompenhandy]

I am sorry to bang on about the Match Preparation, but I think it would be a good idea for Riz to sit down with the people who program Training and maybe come up with some way to link 'familiarity' with the training regimes. It would maybe open up for more options so that the Shouts don't become contradictory in existance, maybe bigger clubs (players with higher stamina/quality/facilities, or something in those lines) can handle larger training regimes thus opening more options...

Completely agree but suspect that might be too much for a patch.

[szp]

For me, this game is a little bit easier than FM 11 but... till april. I've played one save with HSV and one with West Ham. In both situations, my team played very good, we were leaders with great advantage, but in april everything changed. I couldn't win a single game. My players forgot how to play. Last 6-7 matches both with HSV and West Ham were without a win. I've tried changing my tactics, team talks etc., but it didn't help. Like a curse. How do you deal with such problem?

(sorry for my english)

[BiggusD]

For me, this game is a little bit easier than FM 11 but... till april. I've played one save with HSV and one with West Ham. In both situations, my team played very good, we were leaders with great advantage, but in april everything changed. I couldn't win a single game. My players forgot how to play. Last 6-7 matches both with HSV and West Ham were without a win. I've tried changing my tactics, team talks etc., but it didn't help. Like a curse. How do you deal with such problem?

(sorry for my english)

That's "squeaky-bottom-time", the part of the season where the players feel the weight of expectation on their shoulders and become nervous.

Until you get players with high Determination, pressure handling, professionality, big matches, ambition etc... that will remain a problem for you. Reducing the pressure in the team talks can help, but at the same time, low-pressure team talks (like "go out and have fun") are typically unable to motivate the players to fight hard and give everything they have, so they can backfire.

[ReggaeBwoy]

Don't make it out to be something that can be so easily dismissed because Bournemouth did it IRL. Read the thread. That is not a one-off. Its typical of the type of seasons those complaining of an easy game are expriencing, and suspected to be caused by some of the insightful information garnered later in this thread (info SI are looking at to find a solution that will suit all).

Well if you see other threads and posts for instant the penultimate one on this page and many others a lot of people are experiecing difficulty, the guy is 1st with Hampton and Richmond but there are many teams close to him, if he was clear by over 10 points he would have a point but after 30 games or so he may well be dropped right down the table, inconclusive for me

[Kaiser_Tottenham]

Well if you see other threads and posts for instant the penultimate one on this page and many others a lot of people are experiecing difficulty, the guy is 1st with Hampton and Richmond but there are many teams close to him, if he was clear by over 10 points he would have a point but after 30 games or so he may well be dropped right down the table, inconclusive for me

even if i dropped to 3rd, 4th or 5th, that's wouldn't prove you are right, because it's still very over-achievin for at team expected to finish 19th, remember .. it's just three places from the foot of the table, I've played in the season division for better teams, experienced more difficulities than this.

[knap]

Spurs

Can you just confirm tactic used, teamtalks and goals from corners.

PS

Anty transfers?

[Matej]

PaulC, do you have success with fixing corners and moral prob? When you could release next patch? Are we talking about few weeks or couple of months? Im not rushing things, just dont know should i wait week or two, or start playin. I didnt play real career (usually 10+ seasons) since FM2011.

Suggestion for FM2013. It would be good that strikers dont score so many goals, usually my striker(s) score 40+ goals per season. Last few days i didnt write much, but i was investigating that problem here and on other forums, and many players have same thinking. On this forum you have some threads where P. Crouch, for example, scored 43 goals in one season. Thats impossible mission for him in real life, if you look his career statistic.

One more thing for FM2013, i noticed that my players play much better for me, then for AI clubs. Every time i sell some player, and go to his history 3-4 years later, i see he has much worse avg. rating in AI team. That happens in 95% of the time. Same thing is when i buy some player from AI club. if he played 6.42 for AI club, im sure he will play over 7 for me. Are we so better then AI?

[PaulC]

No timeframe decided yet Matej.

[el_magico89]

does anyone else experience a problem like your own players dont wanna play for your, because they think, "the lack of experiences could damage the team"??? Ive started a save with everton, my managerial reputation is very low, from the first day on, almost the whole team was struggling to motivate themselves to play for me. now 10 games played, 26 out of 30 points, leading the table, qtr finals in carling cup and still there are several players with the same problem. its really annoying, as I cant get the best out of my team, when some players are not motivated. in fm 11, this problem was very quickly solved, mostly after the first 4-5 friendlies, very you really convinced everyone or at least after the first couple of games. but in fm 12, in another save, even reaching the 3rd place with everton and winning the carling cup, in the next season, there were still players, who had motivation problems, because of my low reputation. what do you guys normally do? do you set your reputation to high when you manage a pl team?

[grep]

One more thing for FM2013, i noticed that my players play much better for me, then for AI clubs. Every time i sell some player, and go to his history 3-4 years later, i see he has much worse avg. rating in AI team. That happens in 95% of the time. Same thing is when i buy some player from AI club. if he played 6.42 for AI club, im sure he will play over 7 for me. Are we so better then AI?

Good point Matej,

I think anyway it depends on the subject of this thread rather than a discrepancy ( between AI and human ) of players' performance.

[Keyzer Soze]

One more thing for FM2013, i noticed that my players play much better for me, then for AI clubs. Every time i sell some player, and go to his history 3-4 years later, i see he has much worse avg. rating in AI team. That happens in 95% of the time. Same thing is when i buy some player from AI club. if he played 6.42 for AI club, im sure he will play over 7 for me. Are we so better then AI?

Actually i always thought that this could be normal. For example, in FM2011 i was playing with Benfica and sold Nicolas Gaitan to Man United. For me, Gaitan, played very well, in a 451 formation, playing as a inside foward. He scored an average 15 goals per season, with a rating above 7.50.

When he moved to Man United, he start playing in a 442 formation, as a left winger. Of course he scored much fewer goals. Also he average rating droped just below 7 (less goals, less rating). But this could be related to the fact that the english primier division is much more competitive then the portuguese league.

I usually play in Portugal, so usually the players move to a better league (spain, england, italy, germany). It's harder for a player to get a higher rating when the competition is fiercest.

In my saves, i have lots of examples like the Gaitan one, so this is why i never thought about this as an issue (bug?).

[phnompenhandy]

PaulC, do you have success with fixing corners and moral prob? When you could release next patch? Are we talking about few weeks or couple of months? Im not rushing things, just dont know should i wait week or two, or start playin. I didnt play real career (usually 10+ seasons) since FM2011.

Suggestion for FM2013. It would be good that strikers dont score so many goals, usually my striker(s) score 40+ goals per season. Last few days i didnt write much, but i was investigating that problem here and on other forums, and many players have same thinking. On this forum you have some threads where P. Crouch, for example, scored 43 goals in one season. Thats impossible mission for him in real life, if you look his career statistic.

One more thing for FM2013, i noticed that my players play much better for me, then for AI clubs. Every time i sell some player, and go to his history 3-4 years later, i see he has much worse avg. rating in AI team. That happens in 95% of the time. Same thing is when i buy some player from AI club. if he played 6.42 for AI club, im sure he will play over 7 for me. Are we so better then AI?

I certainly notice this ALL the time, in all positions. That goes way beyond the specific fixes being discussed in this thread; however, I wonder if that is intentional. The game still has to be playable and rewarding to the casual gamer who make up the majority, so for the average FM gamer to be a better manager than FM SAF has a logic about it. Whilst I hope SI strive to improve the AI (in match and outwith matches) in all areas year-on-year, the pro-human bias must always be there. The more hard-core gamer can always set himself challenges like only buying players scouted and never using player/staff search.

Nb. regarding your quick question, did you notice PaulC saying a few posts back that he hadn't started on it yet? Patience ...

[jdrawmer]

I certainly notice this ALL the time, in all positions. That goes way beyond the specific fixes being discussed in this thread; however, I wonder if that is intentional. The game still has to be playable and rewarding to the casual gamer who make up the majority, so for the average FM gamer to be a better manager than FM SAF has a logic about it. Whilst I hope SI strive to improve the AI (in match and outwith matches) in all areas year-on-year, the pro-human bias must always be there. The more hard-core gamer can always set himself challenges like only buying players scouted and never using player/staff search.

Nb. regarding your quick question, did you notice PaulC saying a few posts back that he hadn't started on it yet? Patience ...

To be honest, I don't see this as a real issue? Typically, if a player has played well for you, then he will have moved to a BETTER club (or at least, better league), and so he's always going to struggle to replicate that form. It's obviously also down to the fact that most AI players that are successful, know how to play the game in terms of tactics / formation, regardless of the players at your disposal.

[Matej]

Keyzer Soze- i know what you thinking and i agree with you, in that part. Problem is it happens ALL THE TIME, like phnompenhandy said. Even if you sell your player in league where you play, he would play worse. Doesnt metter if the AI club is stronger or weaker then your club. Maybe 1 in 20 times player would play better in AI club. THats weird.

jdrawmer- same answer

[whilewolf]

PaulC, do you have success with fixing corners and moral prob? When you could release next patch? Are we talking about few weeks or couple of months? Im not rushing things, just dont know should i wait week or two, or start playin. I didnt play real career (usually 10+ seasons) since FM2011.

Suggestion for FM2013. It would be good that strikers dont score so many goals, usually my striker(s) score 40+ goals per season. Last few days i didnt write much, but i was investigating that problem here and on other forums, and many players have same thinking. On this forum you have some threads where P. Crouch, for example, scored 43 goals in one season. Thats impossible mission for him in real life, if you look his career statistic.

One more thing for FM2013, i noticed that my players play much better for me, then for AI clubs. Every time i sell some player, and go to his history 3-4 years later, i see he has much worse avg. rating in AI team. That happens in 95% of the time. Same thing is when i buy some player from AI club. if he played 6.42 for AI club, im sure he will play over 7 for me. Are we so better then AI?

The AI cant look at players like you do and tailor it's instructions to them. It sees players as an Age a position a reputation and a CA.If you imagine in their prime Beckham and Giggs having the same CA and being RM LM respectively the AI would assign them both the same instruction while you could examine their attributes and set different instructions to get the best from both of them.

Lots of problems with AI squad building can in my opinion only be addressed by rewriting the AI to look at players in a much more detailed and human manor.

[Matej]

whilewolf - yes, i think you said good reason why this is happening. I really didnt know AI sees ONLY age, pos, rep and CA. THats horrible. I knew its because of bad AI, thats why i wrote it would be good to fix that in FM13. I know they really need new AI, this one is close to the death.