FM2012 difficulty.

[egesagin]

I think in the lower leagues, a good tactic should let you do that. Nobody blamed god when Brian Clough did it, or did they?

and that's because in lower leagues there isn't a huge difference between clubs and as for the managers, well I probably wouldn't let them manage my school team. We are all Mourinho's compared to those managers.. At least in the game, irl of course not but than if they made it THAT realistic, only a thousand or so players could achieve something in FM, the others throwing the game to the bin asap.

[lee_uk]

1.We can\'t skip the patch because it fixes a lot of stuff.

2.We don\'t have a whole day to play games.

3.We are the majority and that\'s where money are.

WTF is all this....someone ban the clown.

[grep]

no offence pls, this thread MUST remain fair despite the hijacking tries

[JimbobWWFC]

The issue is that it is too easy to go on a long winning/losing streak due to how morale engine works. So for e.g. if you start the season with a win or two, you can go on a long winning streak with ease even with a team predicted for relegation (without changing tactics or bothering with team talks). This is because the morale stays 'superb' most of time during that streak. On the other hand, if you start the season badly, you can go on a long losing streak making the game harder for some people. This is because the morale stays 'poor/very poor/ok' most of time during that streak. So it seems that morale has too much effect on a match outcome.

I'm not disagreeing with this post; I just picked it out because of the comments about losing streaks. Doesn't anyone use team meetings to boost squad confidence and get players' morale back to decent levels? That has worked for me.

(And it has also worked for me conversely when we have been on a good run of form, and I've destroyed their confidence by saying something silly in a team meeting and their morale changed to abysmal for a few players... but let's not go any more into that!!)

[stf1979]

When it will be released the next update / patch?

The game it's not enjoyable, doesn't give any challenge...

[jase19]

So you enjoy just clicking continue and winning? How fun.

i click continue and do not consistantly win. *shrug*

[Casual]

When it will be released the next update / patch?

The game it's not enjoyable, doesn't give any challenge...

I'd like to know that as wel... I just beat Milan away 4-5 in my Napoli save and I just can't play anymore until something changes. There aren't any major changes in design or game functions in FM 2012, so I'd at least expect the gameplay that properly works, and the playable game! I don't wanna be "hostile" as Paul said, I'll give any inputs I can if needed, but at this moment I see nothing more than a transfer updated FM 2011 with less reality.

[jase19]

I'd like to know that as wel... I just beat Milan away 4-5 in my Napoli save and I just can't play anymore until something changes. There aren't any major changes in design or game functions in FM 2012, so I'd at least expect the gameplay that properly works, and the playable game! I don't wanna be "hostile" as Paul said, I'll give any inputs I can if needed, but at this moment I see nothing more than a transfer updated FM 2011 with less reality.

you won by a goal and that is just unacceptable? didn't napoli finish 3rd in serie a? wouldn't call that far fetched......

[Casual]

you won by a goal and that is just unacceptable? didn't napoli finish 3rd in serie a? wouldn't call that far fetched......

If you've read the past pages of this topic you'd know what i'm talking about...and you would've seen the screenshots i posted

[jase19]

If you've read the past pages of this topic you'd know what i'm talking about...and you would've seen the screenshots i posted

i have read the past pages, sorry i didn't take particular note to your posts... you've won the serie a i presume? beat man utd, barca, real madrid on the way to raising the champions league trophy? just a guess...

[Casual]

i have read the past pages, sorry i didn't take particular note to your posts... you've won the serie a i presume? beat man utd, barca, real madrid on the way to raising the champions league trophy? just a guess...

Actually I've just played against Real and Milan after the screenshots and that's it... Now with the rest of the flock I'm eagerly waiting for an update in hope for better & more realistical manager days...

[jase19]

Actually I've just played against Real and Milan after the screenshots and that's it... Now with the rest of the flock I'm eagerly waiting for an update in hope for better & more realistical manager days...

i just found your screens.

how did you do against real? play both legs?

[Casual]

Played the first one and lost 1-2. Was relieved to finally lose, but then I played Milan and gained a 1-5 lead with no trying to win whatsoever, no changing tactics or anything...and totally lost the will to play the game...

[jase19]

Played the first one and lost 1-2. Was relieved to finally lose, but then I played Milan and gained a 1-5 lead with no trying to win whatsoever, no changing tactics or anything...and totally lost the will to play the game...

to me, that's just telling you to go play in la liga

barca have knocked me out of the CL 2 years out of the last 3.

[egesagin]

Played the first one and lost 1-2. Was relieved to finally lose, but then I played Milan and gained a 1-5 lead with no trying to win whatsoever, no changing tactics or anything...and totally lost the will to play the game...

Yeeees, because Milan is absolutely unbeatable, Napoli is a team of poor quality and your regular tactics can't be good. What an insanely impossibly unrealistic result that is! Wow!

[bleventozturk]

@FestyF: Well the update is coming and I agree with the morale thing, so did SI apparently. However I enden my losing streaks just after 4 games with a great inspiring team meeting and a big win after that. The team meeting feature is your ticket out of losing streaks and I think it's realistic too since you can fail and make the team much much worse too and the number of team meetings you can do are limited

Well, you won because you boosted your morale to a good level after that inspiring team meeting. This is not proving us wrong. You recovered from losing streak by pumping up your morale. Without the team meeting you would have very little chance, because it is all about morale in the current ME.

As human managers we use the tools in the game better, so for us it is easier to recover from a bad start by using the ingame tools to boost the morale, grind a win and continue from there. AI is not that good in using those tools, so once an AI controlled team starts bad, it continues bad for the rest of the season bc the morale never recovers. This explains why 30% says the game is too easy, and only 5% says the game is too hard. Those 5% are the minority who haven't mastered the team talks, team meetings, etc., and they continue their season with low morale, and whatever they do with their tactics, they keep losing, bc their morale is low.

Lie I said before, the morale being tweaked in the next patch will be better for everybody. So, those who find the game too hard, don't think that the game will be even harder. The game will be easier for you, and it will be harder for the 30% who say it is too easy.

[egesagin]

Your name suggests that you are Turkish. Consider last seasons Galatasaray. Actually consider last two years'. Although their squad was pretty good, the both seasons,they lost many many points to smaller teams and that was mainly because of their morale and lack of confidence so it isn't so unrealistic. Yes the team talks need tweaking but still, low morale DO cause losing streaks even for the biggest clubs in real life

[bleventozturk]

So it should be ok to go on a neverending winning streak with a team predicted for relegation? The stronger AI clubs should be competitive enough to stop letting you go on such winning streaks because of the difference in player qualities.

Exactly. At the end of the day player quality should overcome morale at some point.

I played so many matches observing this. When the morale is high, get your worst player from U-18 team and put him in the line-up. He will play just as good as everybody else on your team. Or put your striker on stopper position, or play your CB as a striker, they will still perform.

Hopefully the tweak on the morale will fix this somewhat, but in the long run the ME should go through a drastic change until we can start being able to tell a good player from your worst one while watching the matches in the graphical representation. Right now I can't tell my best players from the worst youngster in my team when I watch them in the ME, nor their stats show the difference in their quality. If the morale is good, everybody plays well, if the morale is bad, nobody plays well. Just keep the morale high, you will win your league with the worst roster in the league.

[egesagin]

Like I said, irl poor morale causes the best squads to perform miserably. Apart from that, AI must be smarter. I definitely agree on that

[bleventozturk]

Your name suggests that you are Turkish. Consider last seasons Galatasaray. Actually consider last two years'. Although their squad was pretty good, the both seasons,they lost many many points to smaller teams and that was mainly because of their morale and lack of confidence so it isn't so unrealistic. Yes the team talks need tweaking but still, low morale DO cause losing streaks even for the biggest clubs in real life

Yes, I'm Turkish, just like you

I agree with you, of course it should be effective, but what we have in FM is overkill.

For example, do you think Genclerbirligi can win the league this year? Sure enough, they just beat Besiktas 4-2 this past weekend, those results happen when one team with lower quality is highly motivated and the better team is complacent. But it only happens every once in a while. In my game I took Genclerbirligi, and after having a good start to the saeson nobody can stop me. Ermin Zec scores 1 goal a game, Hursut Meric becomes a Messi and starts running circles around opposition defenders EVERY match I play, etc.

If the morale will remain as effective as it is in the ME right now, at least it should be harder to achieve (and maintain) high morale, and this is what PAul has tweaked as far as I understand. It is a step in the right direction. It should shorten the neverending winning streaks and we shall have a more realistic game.

[bleventozturk]

Your name suggests that you are Turkish. Consider last seasons Galatasaray. Actually consider last two years'. Although their squad was pretty good, the both seasons,they lost many many points to smaller teams and that was mainly because of their morale and lack of confidence so it isn't so unrealistic. Yes the team talks need tweaking but still, low morale DO cause losing streaks even for the biggest clubs in real life

Galatasaray didn't really have the best players to be succesfull though. They especially lacked quality in the midfield where they had to play the likes of Ayhan, Baris Ozbek most of the season. Other than that, they kept buying many new players recently, so building team chemistry becomes hard too when you do that. Finally this year they got some better players (then again they lost a very good one in Arda), and hey are already a better team, I can see it. Results show it too.

[egesagin]

I don't know, I didn't have any unrealistic occasions in the Turkish leagues, except from my performance lol. I get your point though, if other people experience that kind of stuff, than it should be fixed. And like I said, the motivation patch was needed and will do good. But AI managers need a major work, hopefully they will make it for 2013..

[bleventozturk]

I don't know, I didn't have any unrealistic occasions in the Turkish leagues, except from my performance lol. I get your point though, if other people experience that kind of stuff, than it should be fixed. And like I said, the motivation patch was needed and will do good. But AI managers need a major work, hopefully they will make it for 2013..

I agree with you on that. If they can improve the AI managers so that they can use the tools in the game as good as we can, that would be the best. But that's a lot more difficult task than tweaking the effect of morale/how easy good morale is achieved. Hopefully in the future versions.

[JamboSteven]

Go an average League 1 or 2 team, that way you'll get a good challenge. Things that you may not notice as the manager of Man Utd (e.g. agent fees) make improving your squad very difficult and more time consuming.

[Erimus1876]

Go an average League 1 or 2 team, that way you'll get a good challenge. Things that you may not notice as the manager of Man Utd (e.g. agent fees) make improving your squad very difficult and more time consuming.

What, you mean like this?

Barnet - media prediction 24th.

No transfers.

Default Tactics.

No Training.

No Team Talks.

Not only did the opposition rarely beat me, they stopped scoring against me too. That was the last straw.

The league table at the time of me giving up in dissapointment at the games ease.

I was 2 points off automatic promotion, 26 points ahead of my predicted 24th.

Had the best defence in the league.

I bought no one.

I used the default 442.

Or like this 2nd save with Barnet (remember them? the worst team in the football league?)...

Again,

No transfers.

Default Tactics.

No Training.

No Team Talks.

If I can recover my Bishop Stortford and Hartlepool saves I'll post their massive over-achievement with minimal effort too.

Point is. The argument of being a small team = a challenge is not true anymore, especially in FM12. Yes some people are finding it a challenge. But some people are not - it does not matter what team you manage.

Be thankful you have a save going that is challenging and fun. A lot of people still haven't had that pleasure yet, and the games been out what? 2 weeks?

[shirajzl]

Yes some people are finding it a challenge. But some people are not - it does not matter what team you manage.

Be thankful you have a save going that is challenging and fun.

You say that yet completely fail to see the point. SI have explicitly said they didn't intent to introduce any kind of difficulty settings in FM. As a result, this campaign of yours will make them publish an update which will make the game more difficult (with no option of keeping it this "easy"). Consequently, those who find FM 12 just right at the moment will suffer. Your side will be happy, but others will start to moan just like you do now. We will be going in circles.

[JimbobWWFC]

You say that yet completely fail to see the point. SI have explicitly said they didn't intent to introduce any kind of difficulty settings in FM. As a result, this campaign of yours will make them publish an update which will make the game more difficult (with no option of keeping it this "easy"). Consequently, those who find FM 12 just right at the moment will suffer. Your side will be happy, but others will start to moan just like you do now. We will be going in circles.

Exactly. SI can't please everyone.

Erimus, have you tried this test with the poorest team in a more competitive league, where the gap between the top and the bottom might be bigger?

[milnerpoint]

It has to be a fine balance, and people on here really need to accept there will NEVER be a difficulty setting in FM, its not that kind of game. The only option really is to improve the AI for us longer term gamers and improve the manuals and tutorials for those less experienced players.

For what its worth 5 seasons in i have not noticed this version any easier from FM11, not in the slightest.

[milnerpoint]

. Yes some people are finding it a challenge. But some people are not - it does not matter what team you manage.

So on that basis do you think SI should be focusing on making your side of the argument happy and leave behind those who do find it difficult?

Can i ask how long have you played FM for?

[FestyF]

You say that yet completely fail to see the point. SI have explicitly said they didn't intent to introduce any kind of difficulty settings in FM. As a result, this campaign of yours will make them publish an update which will make the game more difficult (with no option of keeping it this "easy"). Consequently, those who find FM 12 just right at the moment will suffer. Your side will be happy, but others will start to moan just like you do now. We will be going in circles.

He has not failed to see the point. The new update will tweak the morale system which will not only make it challenging for those who are finding it easy but will also make it easier for those who are finding it hard. Read PaulC's posts in the last few pages and you will know what I'm talking about.

[Erimus1876]

You say that yet completely fail to see the point. SI have explicitly said they didn't intent to introduce any kind of difficulty settings in FM. As a result, this campaign of yours will make them publish an update which will make the game more difficult (with no option of keeping it this "easy"). Consequently, those who find FM 12 just right at the moment will suffer. Your side will be happy, but others will start to moan just like you do now. We will be going in circles.

They're not introducing a difficulty level though. They're making what will no doubt be a minor adjustment to morale or the effect team talks have on players whose reputation is higher than the managers. I very much doubt it'll make much difference. If you had read my earlier post about letting players mod the game themselves via the editor you'll realise I'm against skill levels as I don't think they'll work and will again just be subjective to each person anyway.

Bandaid fixes rarely work and like you said, they can upset one set of players over another. Here's the direction I think SI should take this difficulty level issue (if its viable)...

I don't think its necessary, or particualrly viable to add an option in preferences for hard mode. What determines whats hard and easy? SI ?

I believe the only way forward is for SI to make next years editor include all the parameter settings for..

• Morale effectiveness
  
• Team Talk effectiveness
  
• Training effectiveness
  
• Team meetings effectiveness
  
• Match Preperation effectiveness
  
• AI transfer intensity
  
• AI newgen parameters that allow us to set minimum and maximum attributes upon their creation (very important to long-term games!)
  
• And the ability to mod AI tactics so if an exploit is found, we can tweak AI tactics to make it less effective
  

Handing those options over to the playerbase would save SI countless time trying to balance the game for everyone since we'd be able to create our own databases as hard or as easy as we'd like them to be.

Unfortunately its too late for FM 12 for all those options.

So on that basis do you think SI should be focusing on making your side of the argument happy and leave behind those who do find it difficult?

Can i ask how long have you played FM for?

My answer to that question is above, posted in this very thread yesterday? or the day before if you'd bothered to read the thread. I've played the game for 5 years, the first two very occasionally on a friends PC, the last 3 extensively once I got hooked.

Edit: removed uncalled for comments.

[milnerpoint]

You shouldn't assume anything, it makes you look daft. My answer to that question is above, posted in this very thread yesterday? or the day before if you'd bothered to read the thread. I've played the game for 5 years, the first two very occasionally on a friends PC, the last 3 extensively once I got hooked.

I didnt assume anything, i asked you a question, calm down.

Im not going to bother reading back through all 530 posts in this thread when i can ask you a simple question, again calm down a bit no need to get so defensive over it. But your answer backs up my thinking on the subject so thanks for that.

[imp44791]

The game feels easier this year, and I suspect it's due to the new team talk system being overpowered since the match engine hasn't changed. Speaking of the match engine, count me in with those who see too many woodwork strikes every game, for both myself and the AI. I have yet to play a game where there were none, and 3-5 is the more usual total. It feels ridiculous.

Back to difficulty: I always play LLM and I just restarted a save by picking a bottom division Turkish side that had just got promoted. 10 games into the season I've only dropped 2 points, hammering everyone left and right and only conceding 6 so far. We're talking 6-0s and 5-1s away here and I'm not counting a cup win, since that was against semi-amateur opposition. I use my imported tactics from FM11 so that's also a constant variable. I've only signed 3 scrubs off the street to make up numbers, so it's not a question of talent level either. It does seem that the morale of the players is always sky high and it's very easy to find the team talk setting that will get everyone "green" across the board.

[Erimus1876]

I didnt assume anything, i asked you a question, calm down.

Im not going to bother reading back through all 530 posts in this thread when i can ask you a simple question, again calm down a bit no need to get so defensive over it. But your answer backs up my thinking on the subject so thanks for that.

Ok fair enough milner. I'm just fed up with people coming on here saying be a small team if you want a challenge when they have no idea what the issue being discussed is. No doubt a lot of those people probably voted for the games just fine and skewed the results lol (but thats another story ).

[Fede_Gu]

Just my 2 cents.

I've noticed that this year if I set my past experience as "Sunday League" the game gives me a rep of 4500, instead of 1500 like in FM 11.

I'm not sure about implications, or if it's a bug, but it should be considered when starting a game for sure.

[Erimus1876]

Hmm thats interesting. If thats the case I wonder if all the other rep settings have been significanlty increased too?

[OlivierL]

The game feels easier this year, and I suspect it's due to the new team talk system being overpowered since the match engine hasn't changed. Speaking of the match engine, count me in with those who see too many woodwork strikes every game, for both myself and the AI. I have yet to play a game where there were none, and 3-5 is the more usual total. It feels ridiculous.

Back to difficulty: I always play LLM and I just restarted a save by picking a bottom division Turkish side that had just got promoted. 10 games into the season I've only dropped 2 points, hammering everyone left and right and only conceding 6 so far. We're talking 6-0s and 5-1s away here and I'm not counting a cup win, since that was against semi-amateur opposition. I use my imported tactics from FM11 so that's also a constant variable. I've only signed 3 scrubs off the street to make up numbers, so it's not a question of talent level either. It does seem that the morale of the players is always sky high and it's very easy to find the team talk setting that will get everyone "green" across the board.

A lot of people seem to get a lot of woodwork shots.. i've seen only three after 25 games @Manchester United

[FestyF]

Just my 2 cents.

I've noticed that this year if I set my past experience as "Sunday League" the game gives me a rep of 4500, instead of 1500 like in FM 11.

I'm not sure about implications, or if it's a bug, but it should be considered when starting a game for sure.

Wow that's something new. Can you please tell us what rep is given to 'semi-professional', 'professional' and 'International footballer' in both FM 11 and FM 12?

[Fede_Gu]

Yep.

Home Rep.

1. International Footballer FM 11 8000, FM 12 5500

2. Professional Footballer FM 11 6000, FM 12 5500

3. Semi-Professional Footballer FM 11 3250, FM 12 4499

4. Sunday League Footballer FM 11 1500, FM 12 4499

[Fede_Gu]

Current Rep.

1. International Footballer FM 11 8000, FM 12 8000

2. Professional Footballer FM 11 6000, FM 12 6000

3. Semi-Professional Footballer FM 11 3250, FM 12 3250

4. Sunday League Footballer FM 11 1500, FM 12 2750

[lee_uk]

hmmm..seriously considering going back fo FM11 now until maybe this years gets sorted

[FestyF]

What's the difference between Home rep. and current rep. Fed_Gu?

[Barkers]

i can only comment on what has happened in my gamesave so far and i do seem to be having an easier ride and better results than i have ever achived in past fm games.

Currently playing as Udinese in Seria A. Started the season with media prediction 10th but by March im top of the league, unbeaten in the 26 games to date with just 11 goals conceded. im 9 points clear of the second place team with 2 games in hand...

ive not got a squad of world beater by any means but iv managed to get big wins (as much as 4-0) against ac milan, inter and juve.

i never expected to get these kind of results so the game does seem to easier this time around.

*just wanted to add my assistant manager handles all pre-match pree confrences, team talks and post match press confrences and his man managment and motivation are both below 14

[Erimus1876]

hmmm..seriously considering going back fo FM11 now until maybe this years gets sorted

Its not that bad (despite my ranting ). I'm starting a save where I'm going to use FMRTE to reset my morale to neutral every 4 games or so. Maybe give it a try yourself and see how it goes? Not realistic I know but better than ditching a game you paid 30 quid for surely?

[Fede_Gu]

I'm not sure about this.

The strange part is that until FM 11 HR and CR had the same value at the start of the game. This year it's different.

I had to repeat I've no idea about implications but in a reputation based game I think it's an important change.

If anyone form SI could clarify this...

[Neo14]

Here I finished my first season with OM.

47 wins 59 games -----

Unbeaten in L1

Champion in L1

Winner of the CDF

Champions League winner against Barcelona

I don't buy players

To you to judge whether the game is too easy.*

If we could have a level difficulty in option menu it will be better for beginner and older players.

[Erimus1876]

If anyone form SI could clarify this...

They will, and they'll say its effect is negligible.

Just kidding SI

[Matej]

It has to be a fine balance, and people on here really need to accept there will NEVER be a difficulty setting in FM, its not that kind of game. The only option really is to improve the AI for us longer term gamers and improve the manuals and tutorials for those less experienced players.

For what its worth 5 seasons in i have not noticed this version any easier from FM11, not in the slightest.

NEVER say NEVER. Gap bettween casual gamers and experienced players is to big. Im reading lots of posts like "im new player and dont know nothing about tactic". - these players cant have same results as we who play for 20 years. But SI make them football GODS from beggining, making the game 2 easy.

While Ill be glad to help new players, there are other ways to help them. Like this forum for example. To make game easy is NEVER right way.

[Erimus1876]

Here I finished my first season with OM.

47 wins 59 games -----

Unbeaten in L1

Champion in L1

Winner of the CDF

Champions League winner against Barcelona

I don't buy players

To you to judge whether the game is too easy.

And I thought Barnet overachieved! Winning the league with Marseille is no biggie, but doing it unbeaten and throwing in the CL for good measure in the 1st season with no transfers too tells its only story. Did you lose any games at all (i.e. in Europe)?

[stoo_watp]

depends how easy you make it for yourself imo! i personally start at lowest rep manager and make my own tactics, sign different players etc etc! whereas others dl the amazing tactics from the web and buy the well known wonderkids etc so i think if u play the game realistically then it is a good challenge, not too hard tbf, but still challenging enough.