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[FM12] • • • MiNiMaL_FuSS Coterminosity V0.3 || 4-2-3-1 • • • NEW VERSION!


Which version do you prefer?  

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  1. 1. Which version do you prefer?

    • MiNiMaL_FuSS Coterminosity V0.3 FINAL
      159
    • MiNiMaL_FuSS Coterminosity V0.3 SKYRIM
      107


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Coming back to this, who did you play in the Defensive CM position, and who did you play in defence? As with Man Utd, I'm getting frustrated at the amount of goals I've conceded, with V.0.4B or this.

Goalscoring isn't a problem but I've so far conceded 14 goals in 12 games and I would at least like to see less goals conceded to games played, like in your screenshot and especially as Man Utd.

Mainly Parker, King and Bassong. Currently in my Tottenham save I have played 25, won 21, and drawn 4. Scored 93, conceded 23. For me, allowing about one goal per game but scoring a lot more is fine. If you want more clean sheets, perhaps you should try a tactic with another aproach, and without counter attack.

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please dont promote other tactics in my thread.

Also conceding that many is very poor - I tend to concede less than that each season with 4B.

I used this just to show you that good defending can be done this year... It was not my intention to promote this tactic...

Also 19 goals with this team is fantastic result, definitely not "very poor" as you have put it. best I've got testing all main tactics out there (including all of yours)

This is your thread and I respect that and will delete both this and the previous post if you ask me to do so, just need to say I didn't expect to see such a defesive reply from you and I'm quite disappointed...

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Firstly, would you two not start an argument in this thread please.

Have you done the MUST DO things such as holding a team meeting as soon as you lost the first game (If you didn't you've already ignored my advice)?

so what do you say in a team meeting??
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Mainly Parker, King and Bassong. Currently in my Tottenham save I have played 25, won 21, and drawn 4. Scored 93, conceded 23. For me, allowing about one goal per game but scoring a lot more is fine. If you want more clean sheets, perhaps you should try a tactic with another aproach, and without counter attack.

Who do you play as the DM? I'm ok with conceding less goals to games even only by a few but to concede more goals to games with Man Utdis worrying no? I have kept 1 or 2 clean sheets in about 18 games.

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I think you have to be realistic, on my ipsiwich save i concede almost bang on a goal a game with the tweaked version of the tactic, but im scoring between 4-5. From what i've seen on the highlights the tatcis is set up to leave the front four upfield at all times, by AM has very high workrate/teamwork/aggression, but he never tracks back, just stands in little pockets of space waiting to start the counters. Add to this the way the way the team counters by pouring forward, i generally see both MC's getting into the oppositions box, you are gonna be left open at the back. The best way I've found to improve the defence is to have fast players right throughout the team, this is the most counter attacking tactic ive ever used in FM, but it works brilliantly for my Ipswich team. I've also starting having some success using two very creative players as MC's, neither of them really plays like a DMC anyway, it makes me that much threatening in attack to have two midfielders capable of creating and scoring. For me using strikers in the AMR/L has increased goals scored as well, i was using piatti and a similar creative regen as AML/R, my results have improved dramaticley since swapping in two converted strikers there.

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In my personal game (before I lost it), my Norwich side completed their 4th season only conceding 10 goals.

In my new personal game, in my current first season with Norwich, I've 33 played, 28 won, 5 drawn, 0 lost, 95 for, 24 against....with a god awful defence.

That is using my tweaked 4-2-2-2 version though ;)

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Overall Mingus hits the nail on the head though for me: it's a plug and play counter-attacking tactic, it's going to concede, but it scores A LOT more :)

If you really want to concede less then you need to adjust your marking to be appropriate to each opponent.

Here's a nice snippet about marking that's makes an interesting summary of TT&F's marking overview:

I guess there is a lot of confusion around here about man marking and zonal. True, in real life man marking has practically died out and is only used in special situations. So, understandably most of the FM gamers want to play zonal marking as most of the higher league teams irl do. But, and this is truly counterintuitive, man marking in FM is some kind of zonal marking really, at least according to TT&F 10. When set to man marking, your player is still defending a zone, not following one opponents player all over the pitch. If you want to do this you have to set specific man marking in the tactics screen just before the game starts. The difference between man marking and zonal marking, again according to TT&F, is that when set to zonal marking your player will defend his zone more aggressively. Which means he is stepping out of his position earlier to press an opponent player instead of hanging back.

So, if you believe this admittedly counter-intuitive TT&F theory, when setting up man marking you'll actually still be playing zonal marking, but in a more aggressive heavier pressing way. According to this it wouldn't be wise to set up your CBs to man marking, because they are probably the only players (except of course for the keeper) you wouldn't want to have pressing the opponent. So I usually set my CBs to tight zonal marking and my midfielders to loose man marking and this is working well for me.

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Will you upload you 4-4-2 ?

It's done when it's done. An early version is with a couple of people to have a look at right now. but I go through a season constantly tinkering, so the odds are it'll be a while before I'm happy.

As I've said before the Coterminous series is done, and I'm working on some other projects - but they will evolve out of my own free play if at all right now, as I'm done with testing for a little while - tis Crimbo after all!

The greatest difficulty at the moment with FM12 is that a tactic can be world beating for half a season and then fall apart in Nov/Dec...and then you have to largely chuck out your work and start over. I've had some tactics achieve scarily sensational first-half-of-the-season results.....to the point where I think I've truly broken the game....but then they burst and I jack them in.

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Firstly, would you two not start an argument in this thread please.

Have you done the MUST DO things such as holding a team meeting as soon as you lost the first game (If you didn't you've already ignored my advice)?

so what do you say in a team meeting??
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so what do you say in a team meeting??

How long is a piece of string; it depends entirely on the personalities of your team and particularly your captain and how bad the beating was.

That said even a team meeting that goes 'badly' actually seems to have an impact on results, myself and a couple of people on this thread have had bad team meetings...but these have been followed by a rapid change in results....so I'd worry less about the meeting and more about the impact actually just having a meeting has. Think of it as putting down a marker, for better or for worse, you've made the team aware that things need to change.

Same as I will give my players individual conversational ear bashing if they ever score below a 7 rating.

They get 2 weeks fines for everything they do wrong and can be fined for.

I've never congratulated my team at half time - it's always not good enough or cautious & focus. I see people recommending team-talks on this forum to get players 'happy' or 'delighted', I don't want plays to be happy or delighted, I want them motivated or gaining focus. Being delighted at half time usually results in leaking goals.

If they come to me with a problem/issue/concern, they are always told I'm in charge and that they will be transfer listed if they continue. If they don't like it, I sell them...even my beloved Wilfried got transfer listed after asking for a new contract (he backed down a couple of weeks later and has been on less than 20k for 3 years despite being prem top goalscorer 2 years running).

I rule with an iron first, and am a very harsh manager...and after a while...every player always backs down on every issue.

So my overall advice is to be a harsh *******. But I'm not necessarily right on this, I'm here to talk tactics, the rest of it might work for you very differently, i just play a way that works for me.

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No it doesn't. Defensive Positioning is actually the best option.

I'd agree with serek, the tactics attack is very very good, it's defence I'm constantly working on...so I'd suggest doing everything you can to sure up the defence as the attack takes care of it's self ;)

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How long is a piece of string; it depends entirely on the personalities of your team and particularly your captain and how bad the beating was.

That said even a team meeting that goes 'badly' actually seems to have an impact on results, myself and a couple of people on this thread have had bad team meetings...but these have been followed by a rapid change in results....so I'd worry less about the meeting and more about the impact actually just having a meeting has. Think of it as putting down a marker, for better or for worse, you've made the team aware that things need to change.

Same as I will give my players individual conversational ear bashing if they ever score below a 7 rating.

They get 2 weeks fines for everything they do wrong and can be fined for.

I've never congratulated my team at half time - it's always not good enough or cautious & focus. I see people recommending team-talks on this forum to get players 'happy' or 'delighted', I don't want plays to be happy or delighted, I want them motivated or gaining focus. Being delighted at half time usually results in leaking goals.

If they come to me with a problem/issue/concern, they are always told I'm in charge and that they will be transfer listed if they continue. If they don't like it, I sell them...even my beloved Wilfried got transfer listed after asking for a new contract (he backed down a couple of weeks later and has been on less than 20k for 3 years despite being prem top goalscorer 2 years running).

I rule with an iron first, and am a very harsh manager...and after a while...every player always backs down on every issue.

So my overall advice is to be a harsh *******. But I'm not necessarily right on this, I'm here to talk tactics, the rest of it might work for you very differently, i just play a way that works for me.

First of all, thank you for sharing your work with us.

You said that you never do individual talks at half time. I was doing that and i think you are right....sometimes players would not perform 2nd half.

Question is do you praise any of the players at full time team talk if they performed great, for example over 8.5 rating? Also do you recommend any private chats with the people that performed very well, EX 8.5 and over?

Thank you and KUTGW!

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First of all, thank you for sharing your work with us.

You said that you never do individual talks at half time. I was doing that and i think you are right....sometimes players would not perform 2nd half.

Question is do you praise any of the players at full time team talk if they performed great, for example over 8.5 rating? Also do you recommend any private chats with the people that performed very well, EX 8.5 and over?

Thank you and KUTGW!

I do individual talks at half-time...I never do POSITIVE individual talks at half time.....they are always aggressive (demanding better performance, even if winning but not dominating)...or they are cautious (asking for concentration if winning by a lot).

I've no problem praising at full-time for a good win, it's done and dusted then and can't cause overconfidence.

If a player has had a really good game then I'll also go give him individual praise afterwards in private chat - I find I'll be talking to all my player individually via private chat on average around every 3 or 4 matches, so I'd say that's pretty regular.

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I do individual talks at half-time...I never do POSITIVE individual talks at half time.....they are always aggressive (demanding better performance, even if winning but not dominating)...or they are cautious (asking for concentration if winning by a lot).

I've no problem praising at full-time for a good win, it's done and dusted then and can't cause overconfidence.

If a player has had a really good game then I'll also go give him individual praise afterwards in private chat - I find I'll be talking to all my player individually via private chat on average around every 3 or 4 matches, so I'd say that's pretty regular.

I probably hit that rough Nov/Dec spot with Torino. It makes it more difficult as i used all 3 tactics Final, SKYRIM and 0.4b trying to decide witch is better and i still don't know witch one to go with:)))

I don't wanna sound like a million people asking you witch one is better, skyrim final, ETC but i guess skyrim is the most stable defensively and i'll try to use that along with switching passing to middle.

If other people on this thread have been thru a similar situation please recommend me the tactic you were most successful with during this period. I play Torino in Serie B.

Thank you

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I probably hit that rough Nov/Dec spot with Torino. It makes it more difficult as i used all 3 tactics Final, SKYRIM and 0.4b trying to decide witch is better and i still don't know witch one to go with:)))

I don't wanna sound like a million people asking you witch one is better, skyrim final, ETC but i guess skyrim is the most stable defensively and i'll try to use that along with switching passing to middle.

If other people on this thread have been thru a similar situation please recommend me the tactic you were most successful with during this period. I play Torino in Serie B.

Thank you

Marcelo's is a mix of skyrim and 4B...so might be what you're after.

It's hard to say which is best, as essentially they are all very similar tactics. I think 4B is the best personally...but it's not much different from the V3 tactics overall.

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Firstly, would you two not start an argument in this thread please.

Secondly, hoosiergunner, if that tactic worked well a season and then didn't work next, you need to consider what's changed.

Do you have new players? Are your current players overconfident? Have you re-set and re-done match prep for the new season? Have you done the MUST DO things such as holding a team meeting as soon as you lost the first game (If you didn't you've already ignored my advice)? Have you got any individual player concerns? Have you switched the passing concentration as suggested? Are you adjusting your team talks to reflect the issues?

If your team hits a rough patch then it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy, you must grind out a result and return to form.

If I lose match I never just setup with the same tactic the next match - I setup with an extremely tight and defensive tactic to grind out a win by picking up the holes in whomever I face next. Then switch back to my original tactic.

If you lose...you need to make a change to produce a change.

With a team as good as Arsenal you can win most matches with the default tactics - which suggests the problem largely lies elsewhere. Actually watch the matches in full, see where the problems are game to game and make some tactical changes to fix them. You should also use the exceptional analysis tools to see where your team are losing possession/wasting crosses etc..

Unfortunately I can't fix your own bespoke problem as I dont have access to your game (unless you want to send me the save!), so it's gunna require a little bit of football management on your part :)

Well, I will fully admit to not having a team meeting, but this particular game was a random game I had saved before. I had won 6 straight coming in. This is at about the 1/3rd point of the season.

I did team talk, expect a result, at halftime aggressive not good enough. I'm just awful at tactics so I'm only telling you all this because I loved your tactic up until this point. It was absolutely fantastic for me in the first season, best tactic I've ever seen in terms of results and quality of football. After I installed it I only lost 3 times, and they were all games I should have won, just didn't go my way (not to mention they were United, Chelsea, and Barca, and I lost each by only 1). Second season I only added 2 players and they are rotation players. Up until the patch it was still a cracking tactic, but as soon as the patch came out, it lost everything in my game. I started using a different tactic, which I don't like quite as much, and it instantly turned around. I won 6 and then saved before this West Brom game to test it again on a good run of form and the result is what I posted.

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Really odd, can't figure that one. all I can suggest is try it again after a few months....maybe a bit of a switch will help keep the AI guessing.

Glad it was the best ever tactic you tried before the patch though. Cant explain the patch changing that for you!

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How long is a piece of string; it depends entirely on the personalities of your team and particularly your captain and how bad the beating was.

That said even a team meeting that goes 'badly' actually seems to have an impact on results, myself and a couple of people on this thread have had bad team meetings...but these have been followed by a rapid change in results....so I'd worry less about the meeting and more about the impact actually just having a meeting has. Think of it as putting down a marker, for better or for worse, you've made the team aware that things need to change.

Same as I will give my players individual conversational ear bashing if they ever score below a 7 rating.

They get 2 weeks fines for everything they do wrong and can be fined for.

I've never congratulated my team at half time - it's always not good enough or cautious & focus. I see people recommending team-talks on this forum to get players 'happy' or 'delighted', I don't want plays to be happy or delighted, I want them motivated or gaining focus. Being delighted at half time usually results in leaking goals.

If they come to me with a problem/issue/concern, they are always told I'm in charge and that they will be transfer listed if they continue. If they don't like it, I sell them...even my beloved Wilfried got transfer listed after asking for a new contract (he backed down a couple of weeks later and has been on less than 20k for 3 years despite being prem top goalscorer 2 years running).

I rule with an iron first, and am a very harsh manager...and after a while...every player always backs down on every issue.

So my overall advice is to be a harsh *******. But I'm not necessarily right on this, I'm here to talk tactics, the rest of it might work for you very differently, i just play a way that works for me.

thanks for your advise. just 1 more thing when you won a game do praise you players etc?
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Wingers cut in so you effectively have 3 strikers. Also AMC gets into penalty area a lot, and sometimes even the MC and DMC suddenly pop up from behind after a pass and score. Attacking is not a problem with this tactic, defending is - but I never saw a tactic which has both at high level.

My wingers aren't set to cut in. I'm using coterminosity v0.4b.

So why aren't my strikers cutting in?

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Thanx 4 a great tactic Fuss. :) I have 1 question about corners. Is it important that u use right footed players to take the corners from the right and left footed players on the left, or doesn't that matter?

Again Fuss, great work! :)

Doesn't matter any-more as the patch fixed the corner bug, so just let it ride :)

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04B tactic is fine with all versions of the game :)

I have to say that I honestly feel the patch has done something quite significant overall - the tactic I was working on has fairly suddenly dropped off also.

okay thanks mate :) can i ask u one more question? how can i select my playmaker, im new to fm12 and can't seem to find a way to select my amc as a playmaker. is it on the player instruction?

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okay thanks mate :) can i ask u one more question? how can i select my playmaker, im new to fm12 and can't seem to find a way to select my amc as a playmaker. is it on the player instruction?
go to the tap what say set pieces
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Giving this a go FuSS as my previous tactic (wasn't mine) stopped working on new patch, i'm winning had a quality 6 - 0 against Liverpool & then 5 - 3 against swansea (all their goals was from corners) Can't decide between Marcelo tweaked or 0.4b. Which one is better? Im Grimsby in 2020, did a clean sweep last year with a Cinqtrouple but really struggling this year , chasing the pack instead of them chasing me.

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Hey Fuss, I was an avid user of the first version of this tactic and used it to great effect in a few of my games. I'm now giving the newer versions a spin with a new Newcastle game.

My question is this - I havn't loaded enough leagues for the game to know who Kevin De Bruyne is, so who else do you recommend to buy for the AMC position? I can spend up to 10m but my reputation is only Newcastle of course.

I'll mostly be using version 4B.

Thanks a lot for any tips you can give.

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they're set to move into channels - which puts them between the fullback and the CB on each side.

Thanks for the confirmation.

It's pretty misleading when I hear people say "the wingers cut inside" when they quite clearly aren't set up with that move.

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Hey Fuss, I was an avid user of the first version of this tactic and used it to great effect in a few of my games. I'm now giving the newer versions a spin with a new Newcastle game.

My question is this - I havn't loaded enough leagues for the game to know who Kevin De Bruyne is, so who else do you recommend to buy for the AMC position? I can spend up to 10m but my reputation is only Newcastle of course.

I'll mostly be using version 4B.

Thanks a lot for any tips you can give.

10m, first season?

More than I've ever had first season, so couldn't say, I only buy bargain cheapies.

For 10m you should be able to get somebody world-class in I expect - for that money you're looking for a great technical player, flair creativity, decisions, technique, passing, composure...you can have the lot.

Van der Vaart is a good example of what to look for, although a little old to spend big money on, look at him and see what you can find.

A quick glance around I'd say Willian (Shakhtar) looks like a great young AMC that will grow to be a top playmaker. I've seen Hamsik (Napoli) go cheap before, he'd be good, but likely over budget. Christian Eriksen (Ajax) is very young (19) but looks like he'll be a great playmaker of the future.

Ben Arfa looks pretty good for the role if your newcastle.....

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10m, first season?

More than I've ever had first season, so couldn't say, I only buy bargain cheapies.

For 10m you should be able to get somebody world-class in I expect - for that money you're looking for a great technical player, flair creativity, decisions, technique, passing, composure...you can have the lot.

Van der Vaart is a good example of what to look for, although a little old to spend big money on, look at him and see what you can find.

van der vaart is a word class player mate and he isn't very old (28) i alway spend a lot of money for him greeetzzz from holland hehe good tactic mate

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