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LiquidFury

I question the ME's intelligence

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This error cost me the game.

If you can't quite make it out, the opposition (Red) have a shot that hits the bar. My player (Green), under no immediate pressure, callously heads the ball into his own net, with my keeper left stranded

[video=youtube;UG0COG84o4w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UG0COG84o4w

I don't care how poor a player is, this should not happen. Under no circumstances would a player head a ball towards his own empty net. He had plenty of other 'hoofball' options available. We lost the match 1-0.

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If you are going to play Football Manager in lower divisions you need to put it out of your mind that these are "poor players." You need to assume before each and every match that the eleven men you have sent on to the field have never played, watched, listened to or talked about football before in their lives. That is the only way to put any logic toward some of the decisions you will see.

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Looks like he tried to head it back to the defender nearest to the goal but did not head it back very accurately thus he scored an own goal. Problem?

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If you are going to play Football Manager in lower divisions you need to put it out of your mind that these are "poor players." You need to assume before each and every match that the eleven men you have sent on to the field have never played, watched, listened to or talked about football before in their lives. That is the only way to put any logic toward some of the decisions you will see.

I'm well aware of the 'intelligence' of lower league players, but this is just one example I can't comprehend. If your keeper is flat on his arse, why would you, under no pressure, head a rebounding ball towards your own net? We all know the old epitah, "If in doubt, boot it out". If anything, it would have made a superb 'for' goal, because he was rather quick to make that rebound. Very.. frustrating indeed. His match rating was 6.9, but I'm still dropping him as punishment.

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If you are going to play Football Manager in lower divisions you need to put it out of your mind that these are "poor players." You need to assume before each and every match that the eleven men you have sent on to the field have never played, watched, listened to or talked about football before in their lives. That is the only way to put any logic toward some of the decisions you will see.

This is something I actually find a bit interesting. It's a challenge for SI and one that I suspect us players rarely consider: They not only have to simulate good players accurately, but crap players as well. Modelling footballing intelligence is one thing - modelling footballing stupidity is another, and probably just as difficult, if not more so.

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For me what sums it up is this, in a real football match you will regularly see goals scored because players are out of position, pulled toward the ball or with the man they are marking. How often do you see a player ignore the ball or a player running through to run off to his area of the pitch (where there are no opposition players)? A couple of times a half in my FM experience.

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I'm well aware of the 'intelligence' of lower league players, but this is just one example I can't comprehend. If your keeper is flat on his arse, why would you, under no pressure, head a rebounding ball towards your own net? We all know the old epitah, "If in doubt, boot it out". If anything, it would have made a superb 'for' goal, because he was rather quick to make that rebound. Very.. frustrating indeed. His match rating was 6.9, but I'm still dropping him as punishment.

I've scored an own goal virtually the same as that before. In one of my only appearances for my local side (not gonna name them because I don't think they like me any more!), 2 levels below the Blue Square North/South, I had a header under no pressure, facing back towards my own goal, and I tried to play it to the feet of another defender who was almost between me and the goal as he was facing the right way to put in a good clearance. I didn't get my head on it properly, missed the guy I was aiming for and scored an own goal. We also lost that match 1-0.

What the ME showed was a mistake by the player, nothing more, nothing less.

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I think I'm going to stay away from this thread, the more I think about it the angrier I get that SI decided to sell as a game this year with no improvements to the match engine. Except for new camera angles...

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It's been said by PaulC that this year's ME is just 11.3 with some updated aesthetics and not so many physics/intelligence changes. They're being kept for FM2013, I believe.

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OP, whats your passing set to, the reason I ask is, mine is shorter, so I think my defenders pass it to the keeper alot to keep the ball moving, most of the time when you dont want them to, but I think thats what he is trying there and messes it up.

I dont think its intelligence of lower league footballers more players play it to the keeper regardless of what he is doing instead of booting it out

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I'm playing a direct game at the moment. But my goalkeeper's distribution is set to 'defender collect' because he just kicks it into the air, and the opposition just lap it up. (Still having problems with that glitch, despite stopper/cover CBs and a deep line).

It's a possibility that he was trying to head back to the keeper, but the keeper was A over T, scrambling to prevent the OG. Gah!

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My defenders always love to pass it to the keeper after he has made a great save, its like that keeper training when he has just jump up after a shot to get the ball again lol

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I actually don't see a problem, unless it's a consistent error. However i've never seen anything like it in FM before. By contrast in real life i've seen equally bizzare own goals.

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People seem to have missed the point that the ME is NOT actually what has actually happened in the match but a representation of it. If you were watching commentary only and the line

"Player X hits the bar and the ball rebounds off Player Z for an own goal"....we would all imagine the ball bouncing out at speed and striking the unlucky fella on the knee/head/arse etc.

What the 3D ME shows is a graphical representation of that commentary line.

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People seem to have missed the point that the ME is NOT actually what has actually happened in the match but a representation of it. If you were watching commentary only and the line

"Player X hits the bar and the ball rebounds off Player Z for an own goal"....we would all imagine the ball bouncing out at speed and striking the unlucky fella on the knee/head/arse etc.

What the 3D ME shows is a graphical representation of that commentary line.

....

It never fails to amaze me when people bring this up as if it's an acceptable explanation for something odd in the match engine. It's like telling a Call Of Dooty player, "Oh yeah, you were killed. You see what you saw on your screen is only a graphical representation of what was actually happening." And before you say it's different because we don't actually physically control the players, it's not. If the match engine cannot represent whats happening then it makes the failure to update it even more insulting as a customer.

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Lets go for this explanation, the defender knew about the 'corner bug' didnt want to risk putting it out, couldnt take a touch incase he got tackled, so thought he would try his luck heading it to the keeper lol

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Lets go for this explanation, the defender knew about the 'corner bug' didnt want to risk putting it out, couldnt take a touch incase he got tackled, so thought he would try his luck heading it to the keeper lol

Perfect! :)

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But.. but... no-one was near him!

Fortunately the player in question, a Mr. Robert Salathiel AML ST, has redeemed himself with a superb performance in a return to the squad in a 4-1 demolition of Dagenham & Redbridge. You'd never believe that he scored with a header!

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....

It never fails to amaze me when people bring this up as if it's an acceptable explanation for something odd in the match engine. It's like telling a Call Of Dooty player, "Oh yeah, you were killed. You see what you saw on your screen is only a graphical representation of what was actually happening." And before you say it's different because we don't actually physically control the players, it's not. If the match engine cannot represent whats happening then it makes the failure to update it even more insulting as a customer.

Yeah, that frustrates the bejesus out of me too.

but that goal was funny. And players do crazy things like that. Remember Nani setting up Dirk Kuyt at Anfield last year doing basically the same thing?

[video=youtube;c21K3h0zvyc]

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If you are going to play Football Manager in lower divisions you need to put it out of your mind that these are "poor players." You need to assume before each and every match that the eleven men you have sent on to the field have never played, watched, listened to or talked about football before in their lives. That is the only way to put any logic toward some of the decisions you will see.

that is absolutely hilarious!

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It is perfectly simple to understand. The player running back is not looking at the keeper and hasn't seen him lying stranded. All he is doing is nodding the ball back to where the keeper should be if he were standing up. If the keeper was on his feet, he'd have secured the ball. Yes, it is a stupid decision, but so was Nani's in the video posted above. As he's actually an AML/ST in the lower leagues, I imagine his defensive decision making is going to be somewhat suspect at the best of times. Nothing more than bad luck.

If there's a bug in the clip. I'd argue it is that the ball hasn't lost enough kinetic energy when it hits the post, making the rebound length unrealistic.

This, by the way ...

People seem to have missed the point that the ME is NOT actually what has actually happened in the match but a representation of it. If you were watching commentary only and the line

"Player X hits the bar and the ball rebounds off Player Z for an own goal"....we would all imagine the ball bouncing out at speed and striking the unlucky fella on the knee/head/arse etc.

What the 3D ME shows is a graphical representation of that commentary line.

... is total nonsense.

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It is perfectly simple to understand. The player running back is not looking at the keeper and hasn't seen him lying stranded. All he is doing is nodding the ball back to where the keeper should be if he were standing up. If the keeper was on his feet, he'd have secured the ball. Yes, it is a stupid decision, but so was Nani's in the video posted above. As he's actually an AML/ST in the lower leagues, I imagine his defensive decision making is going to be somewhat suspect at the best of times. Nothing more than bad luck.

If there's a bug in the clip. I'd argue it is that the ball hasn't lost enough kinetic energy when it hits the post, making the rebound length unrealistic.

This, by the way ...

... is total nonsense.

wwfan - couldn't you have used a calmer tone to make your point? :)

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It's not confined to the lower leagues either. The M.E does that for top players too. You see all kinds of crap so it's a shame they didn't bother updating it. Same old bugs too like the "in off the invisible post" and players running parrallel instead of covering for 1vs1. We know the pro's make mistakes, but this game treats world class players like clowns, and League 2 like the worst sunday league team you can imagine.

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Not sure anything will beat Lee Dixon's own goal

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wwfan - couldn't you have used a calmer tone to make your point? :)

I prefer assertive.

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check out aberdeen v kilmarnock on youtube, an alan combe own goal 3 or 4 years ago, tis a belter.

posting on my phone hence no linkage etc

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People seem to have missed the point that the ME is NOT actually what has actually happened in the match but a representation of it. If you were watching commentary only and the line

"Player X hits the bar and the ball rebounds off Player Z for an own goal"....we would all imagine the ball bouncing out at speed and striking the unlucky fella on the knee/head/arse etc.

What the 3D ME shows is a graphical representation of that commentary line.

Just to avoid any confusion, the match engine isn't created from the commentary, it's the other way round.

The match engine works out all the clever stuff like exactly where the players are on the pitch and what they are doing. It then generates commentary based on the events in the match.

What you see on screen in 3D (or 2D) is what's happening in the match, in that the screen renders the players in their correct position with an appropriate animation, which the match engine has decided upon.

There's obviously a finite number of animations (although more now than in previous versions) which is where the difference between your imagination and what you see may come into effect, but it's more accurate to say that the commentary is a text representation of the 3D match engine, rather than the 3D match engine is a graphical representation of the commentary.

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Anybody have a video of John Lukic's OG? Where he punches the ball into the net? Something kind of similar happened to me today...

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Despite the funny videos I still think I am witnessing too many own goals in my games.

One of the fun moments was winning a match 3-0, and only having one goal scorer on my team...

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Not quite the same has this one then.

You know you have made a total fool of yourself when they start to play the Benny Hill anthem

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