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magicmastermind124

FM2012 Editor Advanced Rules Petition Thread

Please sign the petition with either of the following answers:  

357 members have voted

  1. 1. Please sign the petition with either of the following answers:

    • Sports Interactive should enable the Advanced Rules List section in the editor by default
    • Sports Interactive should allow the community to activate the Advanced Rules List section


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oh no!! Cant be true :-(

We are 4 friends having a tremendous and great game in FM11, with a use of advanced editing.

(we made change to: premier league (24teams), league cup, fa cup, world club cup -to fit our game perfectly, which it did!!)

Will we be able to continue doing this in FM12?

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I just saw this topic : signed !

Create a game that's good. Provide it with an editor is even better.

But creating an editor on one side and "limit" it on the other, I do not see the point.

From my point of view, the editor is simple to use, but very incomplete.

The advanced editor seems much more powerful, but incomprehensible without help.

So:

1. Sports Interactive should enable the Advanced Rules List section in the editor by default

& 2: provide assistance, a manual, something to at least be able to create simple things well with advanced rules and learn to use this powerful tool.

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Well SI suddenly seems to start to ignore customers again... That is sad... They really should wait until they have created a normal editor that have all the features the advanced panels have..

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Thank you magic for all your hard work

And yes it looks like SI will pull the plug on this one

Maybe they are planing on making the advanced edit like a separate install and make us buy it

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Sports Interactive should allow the community to activate the Advanced Rules List section

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I have voted for second option, but it's whatever - or first or second, just to keep it.

Seems advanced panel audience is quite large - mainly due to poor normal editor - and SI should listen to it.

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If they do not improve the stupid normal editor, sicerly I'm not interested to buy anymore fm, the next year and the following

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I refuse to sign this poll.. there is no "Sports Interactive made the right decision" option.

I belive Sports Interactive made the right decision and it was about time.

Petitions generally don't have a disagree option. It is not a poll.

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I belive Sports Interactive made the right decision and it was about time.

And why do think it was a right decision?

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If SI never wanted us to use it, they wouldn't have put the files in the game.

It's been fine until FM12 came out.

I wouldn't say most of us are arrogant, were upset and trying to be defensive. We've worked so hard to get our editing work to be perfect and now it's not possible, some of us, myself included will have wasted well over 1000 hours working on Advanced Rules releases.

I know SI won't make an U-Turn now. They wouldn't even fix a broken tab key function in the FM11 editor, although now the editor is separate it makes it easier for them to fix such a problem.

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are the files not there for SI to use and they are built in as part of the editor they will use?

I dont think FM12 is the problem as such, i would imagine its a culmination of them constantly coming up against issues since this pannel was unlocked, saying that i do feel sorry for you guys who have put a lot of work into your edits, just sadly you should never have been able to do what you have in the first place.

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@magic,

I noticed your Advanced Rules thread has been closed/locked by SI, for people such as myself who have not been on the site for a few months now, what has happened and why have SI closed your advanced rule thread?

Regards

---

To vote and provide feedback on my general discussion topic to introduce Staff Roles and Duties into FM Series please click on my provided link to do so http://bit.ly/u8WoDS

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SI do not endorse it as they suggest it can break the game.

No different to the likes of FMRTE really.

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SI do not endorse it as they suggest it can break the game.

Thanks for that but it now appears SI are full of BS whenever we the fans provide constructive feedback on the game whether it be features, structures, etc. they say they will look into it yet they don't change it.

The when we find a way to access features that they include but don't activate so we can make the changes SI never do, they close these threads or shut down sites,

Outside of this will you be finishing the tutorial that you were starting on the editor thread since they closed it?

Regards

---

To vote and provide feedback on my general discussion topic to introduce Staff Roles and Duties into FM Series please click on my provided link to do so http://bit.ly/u8WoDS

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Hello! Sorry for my bad English, I am Brazilian. I congratulate you for working with the Advanced Panel, I am developer of databases in Brazil and use frequently, although I have yet much to learn from it.

Without the advanced panel I lose a bit of desire to play FM. I am totally in favor of SI make it available again.

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Not really. They never had it available in the first place and did not want people to use it.

It's (select) some of us that got around a loophole and made it available.

If they actually had it available in the first place, I'd agree with you guys wholeheartedly, but that's not the case.

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Signed.

The quality of work put out by people who know what they are doing with the Advanced list is incredible. uncle ron's Level 7 and 8 database adds a tremendous amount of enjoyment to my FM experience.

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A bad decision by SI. Can't see why the advanced panel is detrimental to the development of the fan base of FM. Am I missing something?

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sorry guys been out of the loop for a few weeks....what the hell is going on??

can the advanced editor still be used to create files that can be used in game....I hope it can our I wont be playing at all

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They give you an Editor isnt that enough

Not when it is limited..

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Si has removed the Advance options from the editor, not to limit us, but those rules are still Beta phase, meaning they don't have the stability that Si wants them for us to use them.

The editor is not limited, it has set of rules that do work and have others that don't and were greyed out because they didn't work 100%. SI felt this was the best way to keep the quality of editable leagues available on internet for the other users.

Limited was league editor on FM10, now we can edit more, including Continent and International rules. It is enough to edit leagues to make interesting and different leagues.

PS: I voted the second option, but now I change my vote, SI was right to remove the Advance option, because they aren't ready yet.

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The editor is limited when there are dozens of features that don't work... Wonder what logic that makes you say it has features that are greyed out but it is not limited....

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I'm sorry but a tool that all features are not active, is a "not finished" tool.

Then limited or no, fight if you want, but the editor is simply not complete. Not finalized. Which makes no sense...

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Si has removed the Advance options from the editor, not to limit us, but those rules are still Beta phase, meaning they don't have the stability that Si wants them for us to use them.

The editor is not limited, it has set of rules that do work and have others that don't and were greyed out because they didn't work 100%. SI felt this was the best way to keep the quality of editable leagues available on internet for the other users.

Limited was league editor on FM10, now we can edit more, including Continent and International rules. It is enough to edit leagues to make interesting and different leagues.

PS: I voted the second option, but now I change my vote, SI was right to remove the Advance option, because they aren't ready yet.

Funny thing. I created a custom north american competition in both the advanced options and the basic options. In both I set Wednesday as the only day for games to be played. In the advanced file the thing works fine, but in the basic editor they play on Saturday. It doesn't matter what day I put the games are played on Saturday. And this isn't something new since I brought this up over a year ago in the bugs forum and it was never fixed. Of course you also can't assign any sort of monetary reward in the group stage of a basic custom continental competition, set TV dates, or basically anything useful that would happen in any continental competition.

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Then my recommendation is to report again and again and again until the day comes they say "We are going to fix this until you shut up about it!"

It is clear this bug was low priority, but if this bug persist to appear report it again on bug forums and if you don't have reply, ask others that use the editor if this bug appears on their version and ask them to report it. The more, the quicker they will fix it, the more basic editor will work as it should.

For what you can't assign the things you said for any continental competition (the same happens for International as well), then my recommendation is go to the editor suggestion thread and suggest that.

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Yes and I should write please put in the options which the advanced panel has because the basic editor really sucks and is very limited

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So the suggestion is to bug SI to put in the options that are already available if I just use the advanced panel? I've already pretty much got a working model of a full on combined North and South American continental competitions that mirror what happens in Europe (UCL teams going to Europa league for instance). I'd rather they just let me use the perfectly usable advanced panel and focus on fixing the other aspects of the game that are broken (like AI managers inability to understand how to build a team). The part of this whole situation that has annoyed me is that they spent time on an aspect of the game that really didn't need to be messed with right now instead of actually fixing the issues that the game has.

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The competition editor has not really progressed much since its first incarnation, in terns of the depth a domestic competition can be created to. Yes there have been changes, but they have largely been superficial. I never really worked with the advanced editor but recognise it was far more in depth than the main editor. The ideal scenario for me would be a main editor that allowed for a depth of competition created beyond EA standard. Such as: groups that don't require to be divided by 4 (i.e. so I can have 17 teams rather than 16 without needing a play off round - one group would have an extra match day or two), play offs between lower and higher divisions that could contain multiple teams from one division (like Scottish League play offs), play offs between a bottom side and the winner of a lower division championship play off, specific match dates for a league (i.e. no midweek matches at all between September and April), regional cup draws etc..

None of the above is wildly complicated but it is that kind of addition the editor needs, rather than meddling with IDs to the point that a whole load of xmls ceased to function after 11.3 (including my own)!

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The more the editor carries, the merrier :)

However, if SI have left it out due to licensing issues, I do understand them. Hence I don't sign the petition as I'm sure that SI don't leave something which is there out on purpose unless they have a valid reason to do so.

Guess that in terms of violating IP rights it may suffice to manufacture the gun and put the killer's finger to the trigger to be liable, even though the killer still has to pull it himself.

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It's clear that people want this in the game but it's sad that SI are not willing to discuss this with us.

SI claim that the use of the Advanced Rules breaks the game, but it does break it no more than what FMRTE does. Plus why do they care if the game is broken by the person who wants to download a custom database to use it for his game? It seems that the success of some files has meant that SI spent too much time looking into bugs which were influenced by these custom databases. However it would be ludicrous to state that SI want to stop all custom editor files being successful.

SI said the files shouldn't have been left and they were not meant to be used. So when a new patch comes along why are the files updated? This was the case for every patch for FM11 and holds true so far for FM12. They are being updated and they are there.

For me this is the last straw. I will never buy another version of Football Manager ever again unless the situation changes. SI have nearly ruined a great part of the FM community they should have been willing to welcome with open arms.

The loser now will be later to win.

SI, you better hope this doesn't come back to haunt you.

If you use the advanced editor it increases the chances of the game corrupting or crashing a significant amount which is why it is unsupported. If anything we're looking at ways to make certain users cannot activate it themselves due to large amount of issues FM11 users had when downloading XML files made by other people which crashed their game.

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SI claim that the use of the Advanced Rules breaks the game, but it does break it no more than what FMRTE does.

Yeah which is why we don't officially support FMRTE either and cannot officially help any user has broken their save game due to an FMRTE error. This whole advanced editor issue is something we're constantly looking into and have under review, just because we're not commenting on every single thread in regards to this doesn't mean we're ignoring you. At this stage in time there are nowhere near the resources to support the advanced editor, not to mention as jayahr mentioned numerous legal issues which would need to be investigated before it becomes official. At this stage there isn't really anything further to discuss in regards to this issue as there will be no further changes for the foreseeable future. Thanks.

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Well I hope you take from this that the editor 'as is' is not good enough to make competitions, there's no other reason to use the Advanced Rules list.

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So I'm just about to finally purchase FM12, and after browsing these forums have seen that the advanced panel has been disabled by SI? yet it also appears that some people are still using it, for example the new J-League expansion. I myself was going to delve into it, so what's the deal with the panel now? Is it available at all and if so...how? Either way can someone potentially PM with details? Cheers!

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...At this stage in time there are nowhere near the resources to support the advanced editor, not to mention as jayahr mentioned numerous legal issues which would need to be investigated before it becomes official...

With all due respect, it doesn't need to ever become official or supported by SI. All we ask is just please, please leave it "as-was" and allow us a way to get at it. Any files created with the Advanced Panel will be fully supported and tested alone by us users with the full understanding that it is not supported by SI and any errors that arise from the AP can not be submitted to SI for review.

In my opinion, use of the Advanced Panel makes FM hundreds of times better, allowing us to expand our creativity.

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With all due respect, it doesn't need to ever become official or supported by SI. All we ask is just please, please leave it "as-was" and allow us a way to get at it. Any files created with the Advanced Panel will be fully supported and tested alone by us users with the full understanding that it is not supported by SI and any errors that arise from the AP can not be submitted to SI for review.

In my opinion, use of the Advanced Panel makes FM hundreds of times better, allowing us to expand our creativity.

Exactly - the reason people use it is as I said above - the Nation Rules is nowhere near good enough for competition making.

It took me less than an hour to figure out how to get the Advanced Rules working again, you closed the thread because you don;t support it but you never close any other threads because it is unsupported - otherwise close down the whole of the editor's hideaway.

Perhaps as a gesture of goodwill you should re-open the thread you locked and let the community carry on as we did for nearly 2 years.

You didn't bother locking the FM11 thread, and your attempt to disable the Advanced Panel was half hearted.

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magicmastermind124 -

A big thank you for finding ways to make the AP available over the last couple of year and sharing it with the community and for helping us with the AP - without your ingenuity and efforts, I probably wouldn't have not purchased FM12 this year. The work you've done is greatly appreciated.

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You're right dim13, we don't say that enough but thank you magic for all your big work & for all your help, all your releases...

And I would like to say to "SI" : it was you who chose to give the game an editor. Who says editor says free rein to fantasy players. But with your normal editor, very limited, there is no fantasy.

Magic did you a favor by enabling the advanced rules. It has been attracting more and more people to the game. He did fill the huge gaps in your editor. How you thank him for all this is quite detestable.

That's my opinion.

And only now, after several years, you suddenly decide to close this chapter. Why not have done before ? Why now? While so many people buy and play the game only through and with this advanced panel work ?

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