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magicmastermind124

FM2012 Editor Advanced Rules Petition Thread

Please sign the petition with either of the following answers:  

357 members have voted

  1. 1. Please sign the petition with either of the following answers:

    • Sports Interactive should enable the Advanced Rules List section in the editor by default
    • Sports Interactive should allow the community to activate the Advanced Rules List section


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This is a message for SI on behalf of (hopefully) a majority of the FM community that uses the editor.

First of all let's start positively on what SI has done for the entire FM community:

Football Manager is probably the most community friendly game out on PC. SI have made it so that is the case. Sure you need a little bit of knowledge to get things done, but there is a great list of community sites that release content for the game. Player pictures and logos, skins, and much more recently the competition editor really has enhanced an already great feature, the data editor. Over the years SI has helped make it easier for us to not only create these for others, but for others to install them.

Now let's get on to the part that I don't understand...

I've been using the Advanced Rules List in the FM Editor for about 18 months now. I've released a few files using it, and have helped others with theirs also. I was looking forward to carrying on with this once I had activated it, as I know SI haven't supported the feature but the fact they left the code in from FM10 to FM11 suggested that they were doing it for the community - leave the code in, let us activate it and make competitions, but don't give support. It was fine! Until...

I got my hands on the FM12 editor. The relevant file needed to activate the section, format.xml, looked almost exactly the same as previous versions barring the inclusion of the International Rules button. So I moved the Advanced Rules List code into the section I previously used. Sadly it did not show up as normal. I discussed this with other editors at the time and held back on releasing it until I had a little more time to look around and see if I could activate it. Unfortunately in the end I had to change an extra line of code in the Advanced Rules List code in addition to moving the code into the aforementioned section. This resulted in the List section showing up.

This didn't make sense to me at first but it quickly dawned on me what the reality was. There was one line in the code that if I used the whole section wouldn't appear. So it must be the case that SI tried to disable the entire section from being able to be activated by the community.

Why!? You've let us create content that you previously couldn't due to licensing. You gave us all the tools and/or the means to create content for FM that made the game even greater. And then you disabled the code for the Advanced Rules List. It just doesn't make any sense.

I found a workaround but it is not ideal. I've created this thread to gather votes to petition that:

"Sports Interactive should either enable the Advanced Rules List by default or enable the community to enable the Advanced Rules List without requiring to work outside of the editor."

Please don't force us to have to lengthen the process at which we work at. Please either activate the Advanced Rules List by default and put a disclaimer that the section is not supported, or allow us to activate it without having to change parts of the file we are working on.

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so is this available in FM11? i would like to see how it works.

EDIT: of course it's available in FM11. stupid question. anyway, where can I get it?

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You should have a 3rd option saying your not bothered really, but I would like it to be enabled by default.

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Disappointing. But that also goes for the editor aswell - I had hoped the "normal" editor would have more (if not all) of the features of the advanced editor in. And I really had hoped it would be possible to mass-edit things like regional divisions etc.

I have activated the advanced rules, but a bitt more hazzle this year.

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I'd like to see the default editor have massively improved functionality so the advanced rules become unnecessary. Until such time however, enabling the use of advanced rules by the community seems like the most reasonable solution.

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My hesitations towards FM12 are massive (primarely due to the fact you are forced to activate the game through Steam, which in my opinion is a form of dictatorship, and I wonder if this is legal). And with trying to prevent the community using the advanced rules, my disgust grows even more.

So I signed the petition that they should enable the advanced rules by default. And hopelfully, they will listen and change things for FM13 (including the activation through Steam). For our sake, but also for their own sake.

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I'd love it if they were activtated by default, however I appreciate the complexity of the advanced editor and the ability of SI to offer sufficent support to all users restricts this from happening.

Therefore, for now, I'm more than happy with Sports Interactive should allow the community to activate the Advanced Rules List section

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While I agree with the thread starter I have to say the poll is not exactly scientific. There is no possibility to say that SI have made the right decision. I belive that the vast majority would not agree with that but it would be clearer if the option was included in the poll.

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I voted for Sports Interactive should allow the community to activate the Advanced Rules List section and I hope they listen to the community this time, though I havent' bought FM12. After the mess they made of the FM11 editor in 11.3 patch, and their refusal to fix it, I vowed not to buy FM12. And after reading through the forum that you have to install steam in order to play and you can't do this and you can't do that, I'm more than happy I haven't bought it. I think that FM11 is the end of the line for me, I've lost appetite for the game. But I hope sincerely that you guys can continue your great work with the advanced editor for the benefit of the community :applause:

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By default

WE NEED IT SI SO PLEASE LET US HAVE WHAT WE NEED

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While I agree with the thread starter I have to say the poll is not exactly scientific. There is no possibility to say that SI have made the right decision. I belive that the vast majority would not agree with that but it would be clearer if the option was included in the poll.

It's meant to be a petition, not a poll. You either sign a petition or you don't, you don't get to vote against what a petition stands for on the petition.

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Magic, is this petition going to be submitted to SI in a formal way? There's normally a patch in early November, isn't there? Is the intent/hope to try to get things changed in time for that patch, or one closer to Christmas?

Thanks for taking the lead on this, by the way. The whole advanced editing community appreciates it!

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I voted for Sports Interactive should allow the community to activate the Advanced Rules List section because I'm French and I don't speak English :p

Seriously the Advanced Rules are really important for the Editor

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I've voted for it to be included by default, but I think you have to be careful about how you present this to SI.

We should remember to recognize that this is possible at all, as I remember throwing days of work out the window because I couldn't make my Denmark - Belgium swap to work on FM08.

Also I think they may be reluctant to enable it officially because that could result in many more difficult issues people want solved by the SI team. If they release it officially, they'd have to support it officially so suggesting that they make it available with a warning such as "Using this feature is experimental and not officially supported" would be the way to go, I think.

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Thanks for supporting this guys. Do you think that with 100 signatures (albeit with your forum usernames) we should present this to SI? (They're probably aware of it already).

And yes, the wording will be careful and will include how SI has treated the community over the years. (One of the best community friendly developers around)

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A hundred signatures is a good start. It's only been up for a couple of days - maybe you could see how many more it gets by Friday.

You should also provide stats on how many times your advanced panel was downloaded last year (I remember seeing one post about it being over a thousand, but it was probably many, many more by October 2011). Make it clear that the demand for the panel goes beyond the number of signatures/votes to the petition.

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A hundred signatures is a good start. It's only been up for a couple of days - maybe you could see how many more it gets by Friday.

You should also provide stats on how many times your advanced panel was downloaded last year (I remember seeing one post about it being over a thousand, but it was probably many, many more by October 2011). Make it clear that the demand for the panel goes beyond the number of signatures/votes to the petition.

Not only the advanced panel itself, but how many people downloaded competion created with advanced editor? Much more, i think.

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Put me on your list I like the Advanced Editor so I can attempt and correct Australia (Hyudai A-League, Australian State Leagues, etc.).

Regards

---

To vote and provide feedback on my general discussion topic to introduce Staff Roles and Duties into FM Series please click on my provided link to do so http://bit.ly/u8WoDS

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Thanks for supporting this guys. Do you think that with 100 signatures (albeit with your forum usernames) we should present this to SI? (They're probably aware of it already).

And yes, the wording will be careful and will include how SI has treated the community over the years. (One of the best community friendly developers around)

I hope so, and i think that having it as a button would be better than having it where its normally positioned. it doesn't really matter though. anyway, good luck with this Magic.

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I've picked to enable by default.

This is the first year I have decided to look at creating leagues and competitions to co-inside with my Free4All Database where all players are free transfers. Because I want to set-up a foreigner limit for every league so each 25 man squad so to speak can only have 5 and everyone on outside that country is classed as foreign. I want to bring back the old European Champions Cup i.e. only league winners. Bring back the Euro Cup Winners Cup.

I would go has far has saying there should be an in-depth guide to creating leagues and competitions, so people how want to learn aren't left scratching their head and nagging one or two forum member for help.

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Joined the petition for the default entry of Editor Advanced Panel.

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I clicked on the first one, but it is far more likely going to end up being the second if anything. People ran into these problems all of the time when I used to mod Grand Theft Auto games as well.

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Two petitions:

- Goalkeepers must have number 1, 13 or 22 in squad registration.

- Foreign players (who are not elegibles for national team) in squad registration.

*The second rule is like FIFA proposition 6+5. National players must be elegibles for national team, so a foreign player who is international in a foreign country is considered foreign. For example, Daniel Alves has Brazil and Spain nationality but he is international with Brazil, so in this case he must be "foreign" in Spain.

Thank you so much. I know it is hard.

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Two petitions:

- Goalkeepers must have number 1, 13 or 22 in squad registration.

- Foreign players (who are not elegibles for national team) in squad registration.

*The second rule is like FIFA proposition 6+5. National players must be elegibles for national team, so a foreign player who is international in a foreign country is considered foreign. For example, Daniel Alves has Brazil and Spain nationality but he is international with Brazil, so in this case he must be "foreign" in Spain.

Thank you so much. I know it is hard.

This isn't a petition for more features, it is a petition to get SI to allow us to activate the Advanced Rules.

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I have received a reply from SI.

It is clear that they don't want us to create updates using the Advanced Rules due to the number of crashes that happen on FM when using them.

It is also clear that they want to limit the number of users being able to use the Advanced Rules because of this reason.

Rest assured that if I am able to find a way to activate the Advanced Rules without the need to edit the xml each time you want to test it, I will post it here. Until then, there will be no more updates for the Advanced Rules.

SI, your message is confusing because clearly you're letting us use it, why else would you leave the code in the editor data files?

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Thanks for passing that along, Magic. Quite frustrating. On one hand, I can see the point because the advanced panel does result in a fair number of crashes. On the other hand, as you've mentioned, they haven't made it impossible to access...

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so sad....

For this season i hoped they would improve this Editor but in fact : it's the opposite

And i really love it to use it

Using the standard Editor - after u have used the advanced one

is like Using Windows 95 when u used windows 7 before (or something like that)

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I'm eagerly awaits a post from a SI dude. It won't happen, I'm afraid.

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so sad....

For this season i hoped they would improve this Editor but in fact : it's the opposite

And i really love it to use it

Using the standard Editor - after u have used the advanced one

is like Using Windows 95 when u used windows 7 before (or something like that)

You have explained it using the best words possible...except swap Windows 95 with DOS

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