Training The Furious Way

[fm_freak]

Why this happens?

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/7651/57916440.png

http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/9011/fabi.png

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/1357/pedrojw.png

[HelloHH]

These schedules for me don't really work none of my youth players are receiving any increases or decreases at all.

[furiousuk]

Why this happens?

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/7651/57916440.png

http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/9011/fabi.png

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/1357/pedrojw.png

Sorry, really thought I'd replied to this, hmm...

Anyhow, bit odd with Cesc and Pedro but FM12 reports on any change in attributes no matter how small. How long have you used the schedules for? If you've just changed to them then sometimes players do have a small adjustment period which can lead to a tiny dip - have you seen any of their attributes actually drop? Even if they did it's not indicative of a problem (yet) because they could just be flip-flopping across an attribute boundary. If at the end of the month your assistant reports they have trained poorly then give them a rollocking and see if they pick up. If a player is jaded (doesn't look like they are from a quick inspection) then they'll drop attributes a bit, same if they haven't played enough (again, they have played enough so it's almost certainly not that).

You might find that next week they have adjusted to their schedule and get all greens as the slight dip corrects itself. It's possible they don't like training that hard or have played a lot of games (i.e 4 in 2 weeks in a lot if you've played every minute).

As for Bartra - this one is simple. He hasn't played so his stats will stand a chance of dropping - at 20 years old they should be rising naturally anyway but any spell without a football can lead to drops.

These schedules for me don't really work none of my youth players are receiving any increases or decreases at all.

As I mentioned for Bartra above - have your guys been playing games?

If they haven't then they'll (potentially) drop no matter what schedule you use. Check how many games they've played.

If you have 40 guys in your youth setup its far far too many - I run about 16/18 in my U18s to make sure they get games and even those on part-time schedules (i.e. not old enough for fully pro) see increases because they are playing.

[strangepup]

If you have 40 guys in your youth setup its far far too many - I run about 16/18 in my U18s to make sure they get games and even those on part-time schedules (i.e. not old enough for fully pro) see increases because they are playing.

I have been using your schedules and I see really nice results. I am wondering thought how many games each season should my youth, reserve, and senior be getting? Also, I just want to clarify, should youth team members training be no greater than "medium" or can you bump up higher depending on training facilities or other factors?

Thank you for the schedules and your posts...they have helped me out a great deal.

[furiousuk]

I have been using your schedules and I see really nice results. I am wondering thought how many games each season should my youth, reserve, and senior be getting? Also, I just want to clarify, should youth team members training be no greater than "medium" or can you bump up higher depending on training facilities or other factors?

Thank you for the schedules and your posts...they have helped me out a great deal.

I'm on FM11 where youth development is slightly different. Players can only use a part-time schedule before their 17th birthday - as far as I can tell the only difference between part-time and full-time schedules are that PT ones can not be as intense. I bump them up for the default youth schedule/s that comes with the game and have left my youth schedules as 1 defensive schedule, 1 midfield, 1 attack (+ 1 GK). They are fairly generic because you can't shape too intensively at that age anyway and they won't be on them for long so it would just be nice if they raise their attributes naturally until their 17th birthday - whereby I can make more decisions with them and use the FT schedules and start to see some direction in their training.

My youths play an incredible number of games per year and I think this is absolutely essential. Having 30 players in your youth is a total waste because they'll only get half the playing time they require. You're best off with 15/16 and make sure they get games. Who cares if you have an injury crisis and lose a few games? It doesn't matter at all if all those players are developing nicely. For the last few years my U18's have averaged over 5 goals a game and I don't think they've lost for years and this is with a small squad and intense training.

My reserve squad is filled with only loan players so I effectively have no-one in there. The reserve fixtures are for the handful of first teamers I have who don't get enough gametime to maintain peak fitness and for my youth team to integrate with them. Quite often it'll just be youth in the reserves so my U18 have almost double the normal amount of games. Burnout is an issue but I have an excellent staff and it's never been a problem - infact, if they can't deal with (i.e. don't develop) I consider them duds and they'll be out the door. Some players do develop later but if they don't have the personality for it then it'll never happen - this youth time is key in preparing their personalities so they can really fly (development-wise) between the ages of 18-22 and hopefully be ready for first team action at around 23 (this might be 1st team action for another club but it's cash in my pocket - you're only interesting in maximising their potential, not everyone has the talent to play at the top).

Similarly I don't carry anyone in my senior squad. I go into more depth in this thread on my current squad setup. I currently have only 3 players who are 3-deep on my depth chart and they are all considered tutors rather than players (Lallana sees a few games, Hulk a few more, Berra has played maybe 5 games in 2 years but is an absolutely top notch tutor). All 3 will leave the squad (hopefully to coach) at the end of the year and I won't look to replace so I'll have a 1st team squad of around 22 players probably. And this is with 2 games a week for most of the season (unless I get knocked out of cups which hopefully I won't).

I rotate quite heavily in 1st team which is necessary to keep them fresh and hungry. Some players will make around 50 games which will normally include a few sub appearances but all players will play 20+ games, hopefully many of those 20 games will be starts. Your younger 1st teamers need games to develop - if they aren't playing then they should be on loan or sold (they only exception is if you are tutoring them to develop their personality). An older player not playing much I can accept (even if they aren't a good tutor) because they are less reliant on game time (as they are already developed) but they will decline without regular gametime.

What you have to think is that if you are rotating purely to give game-time to someone then someone else isn't getting that development time. Part of it is a choice between where you want the development to go - ideally you rest your well-established and developed first teamer and bring in a younger chap who needs gametime. I know it doesn't work like this all the time but if you build a good hierarchy into your squad then this should happen quite naturally - it'll also allow older guys to retire and be replaced by your younger chaps who are now hopefully mature enough to play more regularly.

[mastema]

Trying these out atm. I noticed that youth schedules are only separated into GK, CB, MC and STR. Can anyone tell me if it's better to put a, for example, 17 y.o. ML into MC (youth) or leave him in General training?

[furiousuk]

I normally choose whether a young ML is either a wide midfielder or a winger/attacker. The former goes in the MC category whilst the latter in the STR.

To be honest, I don't think it really matters. I've not noticed a discernible effect of training on those on YTH schedules (I believe this is now different for FM12 as things have changed a little). In my experience they tend to gain about a point a year across the board (sometimes more physically) and don't really start to develop until they get a little older. Even 17 year olds on full-time schedules progress fairly mundanely, I don't think it's until they start playing at a higher level around 19/20 years old that the average player really starts to specialise (based on their schedule).

I always planned on creating more youth schedules but never saw the point so left it at some generic ones. Apart from being heavier than the general ones (and maybe slightly more 'pointy' i.e 'shaped') I don't think there is that much difference.

[oasis]

how do i import this training scheduele onto my FM? i've downloaded it

[AcidBurn]

I used the poacher training on this player and it has gone great, used some individual focus on finishing and composure. Sorry the first screen shot is so small couldn't find a proper sized one.

[furiousuk]

how do i import this training scheduele onto my FM? i've downloaded it

I haven't got FM fired up (someone will know the answer to this though), but isn't there just an import option in the training tab?

edit: found an old screenie, I won't put it here but on FM11 you hit the 'Manage Schedules' button in the bottom left hand corner of the training screen. From there I think there is an import or load button. You have to download the file (or move it) into your schedules folder, by default this is Documents/Sports Interactive/Football Manager 2011/schedules. Don't think this is any different for FM12.

I used the poacher training on this player and it has gone great, used some individual focus on finishing and composure. Sorry the first screen shot is so small couldn't find a proper sized one.

Cracking player again Acid, you know how to develop 'em thats for sure!

What I noted, and something I find, is that his technique hasn't improved a jot. My guys really struggle with this as well, I'm pretty sure it's just that technique is hard to train. I've rarely seen bravery improve either - any idea why this improved? I've heard it can happen due to an event happening in the game but never really paid much attention to it.

[AcidBurn]

I'm not sure about technique I don't think it ever goes up on my strikers by more than a single point no matter what training I use. I've heard bravery can go up due to certain things happen within a match but I've never really seen it happen or never really noticed. As for developing players that's down to these training schedules, knowing when to use the individual focus and game time. Also obviously helps if the player like the one above has bags of potential to use up.

[oasis]

I haven't got FM fired up (someone will know the answer to this though), but isn't there just an import option in the training tab?

edit: found an old screenie, I won't put it here but on FM11 you hit the 'Manage Schedules' button in the bottom left hand corner of the training screen. From there I think there is an import or load button. You have to download the file (or move it) into your schedules folder, by default this is Documents/Sports Interactive/Football Manager 2011/schedules. Don't think this is any different for FM12.

i've put it in schedules and tried importing it but when i go on schedule it isn't in the list? hmm

[oasis]

How do i add players to the schedule? i've imported the training regims? thanks

[Romanista1994]

Cracking player again Acid, you know how to develop 'em thats for sure!

What I noted, and something I find, is that his technique hasn't improved a jot. My guys really struggle with this as well, I'm pretty sure it's just that technique is hard to train. I've rarely seen bravery improve either - any idea why this improved? I've heard it can happen due to an event happening in the game but never really paid much attention to it.

I've often seen bravery improve by a single point in players, especially when it's very low like Demartin's. I don't know what causes it to go up, however, but it seems to happen quite a bit for me.

I'm not sure about technique I don't think it ever goes up on my strikers by more than a single point no matter what training I use. I've heard bravery can go up due to certain things happen within a match but I've never really seen it happen or never really noticed. As for developing players that's down to these training schedules, knowing when to use the individual focus and game time. Also obviously helps if the player like the one above has bags of potential to use up.

Technique is one of those attributes that most of my strikers get heavy individual focus on at one point or another of their career, normally in an attempt to get it to at least 16 before they start playing a major role in the first team.

I think you could squeeze in another couple of points of technique that way, but I don't know how close to his peak Demartin is. Beast of a player though, would love to have him just to see how he'd work with the 'Shoots with Power' PPM.

[oasis]

anybody tell me how to put players into the schedule?

[furiousuk]

Sorry I'm not on my FM machine but once you've got the schedules imported, can't you just drag and drop players from one schedule to another?

I haven't done it for a while as my FM time has been limited recently (I don't do it often anyway). You can definitely go into the player screen, select training and then select which schedule to place them in, although that is an unwieldy way for all your players. You can defo do it in the training tab, although, thinking about it, try right clicking on the player names and see if you can reassign that way. You do have to go through each player.

[underkiller]

Hello mate, i have two question.

In the opening post you say "Only send players on loan when they have the personality for it." ---> Which personalities, should the players have, before i let them go on loan?

When turtoring, we can choose between: 1."As a senior member of the squad, id like you to tutor mr X, as i feel you can help improve his game", or 2. "As a senior member of the squad, i think it would be beneficial if you take mr X under your wing and mentor him off the pitch,".

What is the difference? Is number 1 for getting skills from the mentor, and number 2 for getting mentors personality? Please help

Tutoring, tutoring, tutoring. This is absolutely crucial.

[furiousuk]

Yep, tutoring is really very important. Lots of benefits, some not very obvious.

Personalities such as determined or professional are good, spirited is normally good. There's a thread somewhere that goes through all the different personalities and what they mean - I think it also says which ones are generally good and which ones should be kept away from. I don't have my bookmarks on this machine but a quick look through the search should provide some answers, it's in the tactics forum somewhere! Note that rela players will have, at the least, a balanced personality - they might have a poor personality (i.e. unsporting, unprofessional, undetermined, lazy, etc.) but it'll only ever read balanced - with regens the gloves are off and you'll see all the negative personalities.

Also, their media handling gives a clue as to their hidden attributes. Theres a thread that goes through these and the personalities too, try to find it. Someone gave me the link before, it might even be in this thread!

Good personalities are very important as players tend to develop best when they have good personalities. Also they'll be easier to handle, easier to motivate and easier to keep happy which is not something the AI is good at so it's good if they can do it themselves before you hand over their development to the AI for a season or 2.

A little aside to this I've noticed is that players on loan develop their physicals very nicely. It might just be an age thing but I suspect its more just the effects of playing games. I've had promising but weak players go on loan for a year or 2 but come back as actually quite physical specimens. If you've read my Squad Building thread then I have a DC called Chris Gray who was very very weak at 16/17 but now boasts 16/17 in almost all physicals and I also have MC Diego Costa who has decent physicals despite starting out very physically unappealing.

As for your 2nd question: I use FM11 and I don't know if things have changed but I always just use the top option which is the most general tutoring option. It'll teach personality and PPM's, I think the bottom one will just teach personality traits rather than PPM's. You might be tutoring a young playmaking DM with an older defensive DM - the old guy might have the PPM 'Plays Short Simple Passes' which is perfect for an Anchorman but won't suit your young DLP so you don't want that transferred by tutoring.

I'm sure I've read some tests somewhere on the effects of each different tutoring option (I think there used to be 4 at some point) and the conclusion was that they don't make much difference in terms of the successfulness of the tutoring.

[Romanista1994]

There's a thread somewhere that goes through all the different personalities and what they mean - I think it also says which ones are generally good and which ones should be kept away from. I don't have my bookmarks on this machine but a quick look through the search should provide some answers, it's in the tactics forum somewhere!

I'll save you again. Here is the thread: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/213536-Tutoring-results-test

[underkiller]

Thanx alot both

Looking forward to your new guide on FM 2013 furiousuk!

[furiousuk]

I'll save you again. Here is the thread: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/213536-Tutoring-results-test

Thanks again! Muchos appreciatos!

Thanx alot both

Looking forward to your new guide on FM 2013 furiousuk!

So am I!!

As a little teaser, it won't be position based but it'll still be just as simple to use! It'll be kind-of position based, but not!

[underkiller]

Hello Furiousuk Would you make a new training\Yth guide for Fm 2013?

[furiousuk]

I'd be delighted to!! Will take a little while though, training can take a while to work out what works and what doesn't as a general rule.

All of the theory still applies though.

[underkiller]

Great

two questions for you:

Have you had time to look at the training system in this year's edition of the FM 2013?

I have some young players who have great potential, but the the mental attributes are very low. What role etc on the training would you put them onin this year's edition?

[bladfin]

I have a 18yr old CA 127 PA 180. Which schedule should I put him in ? He's been a first team member for about a month now. He is definitely ahead of all other youngsters (that most of them are 18 or younger) who have been placed in developing or young schedule. He is a central midfielder.

[DocSander]

I have a 18yr old CA 127 PA 180. Which schedule should I put him in ? He's been a first team member for about a month now. He is definitely ahead of all other youngsters (that most of them are 18 or younger) who have been placed in developing or young schedule. He is a central midfielder.

Do you really think there is a general answer to this question?

Put up a screenie of his attributes and you'll get an answer in which direction he can develop...

[furiousuk]

Great

two questions for you:

Have you had time to look at the training system in this year's edition of the FM 2013?

I have some young players who have great potential, but the the mental attributes are very low. What role etc on the training would you put them onin this year's edition?

Only done FMC so far so haven't looked at training at all yet. Hopefully not for much longer though.

I haven't even looked at it at all so I might be completely wrong but try and find a list of what each training category trained and emphasise that. Mentals rise slowly for youngsters. Tactics training always used to get the most mental attributes but some of them fell in other categories.

I have a 18yr old CA 127 PA 180. Which schedule should I put him in ? He's been a first team member for about a month now. He is definitely ahead of all other youngsters (that most of them are 18 or younger) who have been placed in developing or young schedule. He is a central midfielder.

Yeah, that he's got 53 points to fill doesn't really say anything at all. I haven't looked at the CA/PA for years (other than in-game reports), haven't found a need to as the game reports fairly accurately on this now, but I remember for way back when that the sole easiest way to be confused by a player in to assume a high CA player is good. His distribution of stats could be rubbish. Whereas a low CA player could be outstanding. I remember having one chap (I can still see his regen face but can't remember his name!) who had low CA but a brilliant distribution of stats so he was great, but due to the games preference for CA he (and his former employers) thought he was rubbish so I picked him up for peanuts and paid him in welfare tokens despite him having one of the most astounding combination of stats I've ever seen, even in very high CA players.

But, going on what you have stated (i.e. that he is a good youngster with loads of potential) I'd probably whack him on developing, particularly as you are playing him. If you are playing him as a regular and he has a good distribution of stats then the 1st team schedules would be fine as they are fairly rounded and aren't heavy enough to cause any other issues. Tutoring still helps, even if he is a first teamer, so hopefully you've got a good tutor.

[lam]

Didn't realise the old training ways still existed.

Can I still create specific programs?

[furiousuk]

Didn't realise the old training ways still existed.

Can I still create specific programs?

Oh, I don't know dude, I should fire up the full game to have a look. Probably not then.

[underkiller]

Only done FMC so far so haven't looked at training at all yet. Hopefully not for much longer though.

I haven't even looked at it at all so I might be completely wrong but try and find a list of what each training category trained and emphasise that. Mentals rise slowly for youngsters. Tactics training always used to get the most mental attributes but some of them fell in other categories.

.

Ok thanks. I just have to ask you a question about signing youngsters. Do you only look at at the "potensial star rating" and determination from scout reports when you sign them? If a youngster at 16 years old, have good stats, in mental, determination etc, and the scout report tells you that the youngster only have 2 star potensial.... can this player develop and be a 4-5 star player, or can he only be a 2 star even with turtoring and "correct" trening?

Ps. How do we train players with weakness "Teamwork"?

[fatlad86]

still use these on fm 12

[furiousuk]

still use these on fm 12

Ok thanks. I just have to ask you a question about signing youngsters. Do you only look at at the "potensial star rating" and determination from scout reports when you sign them? If a youngster at 16 years old, have good stats, in mental, determination etc, and the scout report tells you that the youngster only have 2 star potensial.... can this player develop and be a 4-5 star player, or can he only be a 2 star even with turtoring and "correct" trening?

Unfortunately players in FM are capped in how much they can rise but this doesn't automatically mean that a low star player can't be a good player for you.

Aside from judgement ability, the star rating is mainly based on a number (a hidden number) that is attached to the player. As a very general rule of thumb, the higher the number the better the player (if you want to more about the inner working its CA/PA, or current ability, potential ability). However, this ability number doesn't seem to actually correspond to the spread of attributes a player has (I haven't done extensive research on this but it's been like this in FM for a long time, please someone correct if I'm now out-of-date).

Take, for example, a striker with high CA/PA who is slow, can't finish & has poor technique but is very strong, good positionally, very fit and a solid tackler. That's player A. Player B has a lower star rating (and lower CA/PA) and is fairly weak, not fantastic mentally but has great off-the-ball, general speed, anticipation and finishing. So, who do you pick? If you're the AI then 9/10 its player A, luckily, we have less restraint than the AI and can see that player B is the perfect accompaniment to the creative chap I've been looking for a partner for, even though he has lower 'ability'.

As another example, take a midfielder with great physically, technique of 18 and passing of 17. You'd think this guy would be immense but if his mentals are poor then can he really make use of his incredible technique and passing. He is a decepticon, be wary.

As for youngsters it all depends on what you want to get out of them. A 2 star potential chap at a top club (given that you trust your scouts) isn't ever going to be the next Gerrard, Scholes or Terry (to pick on one-club top players) but it doesn't mean that he's useless to you. If his mentals and personality are good he'll likely rise quickly, he may improve your youth/reserve team which may have a knock-on effect on other players, he'll probably be good for overall squad morale (particularly amongst troublesome youngsters or first teamers with their noses out of joint in the reserves) and he'll probably be worth more on his last day at the club than his first. If you're lucky he'll be good enough to fill a bench spot or let another player rest for a game or two.

The real talent of a good youth system is not simply producing wondrous talent for the 1st team - it's producing players that can do a job somewhere, even if that somewhere isn't at the apex of your club. If you have young guy who is a decent winger with lowish PA then don't worry about teaching him to shoot or tackle, get him doing what he is good at - getting to the byline and whipping crosses in. Even if your club plays through the middle with the ball on the deck this guy will be perfectly placed somewhere and that's how you get some profit out of him.

Personality is the most important thing for youngsters (even if they have lowish determination) and some guys will just surprise you with their ability to raise attributes. I certainly wouldn't rule a guy out (particularly a youngster) based solely on their star rating.

Over the years I have been very pleasantly surprised by many players - Chris Cohen ruled the world on my long FM09 save (2nd best player of the year at a World Cup in his thirties) and Alexey Rudenok scored better than a goal every 2 games across every top competition for years on my FM11 save, I can't be sure but I'd bet neither has a particularly high CA/PA.

[Conan21]

Do you know if these work in FM13, furious?

[Cleon]

Do you know if these work in FM13, furious?

training was revamped for FM13 so no they wont work

[Conan21]

I thought as much. Thanks anyway

[underkiller]

Tell me furiousuk How do you train youngsters and how do you train first team players on Fm2013? Do you focus on the attributes or positions?

[phil79]

Download links don't work, has anyone got a working link to v2 schedules I can use?

[Jar of Jam]

I second the previous comment - any chance Furious or anyone else can reupload these ?

[Montagu]

Bump!. Is anyone able to share a link for these files, please?

[furiousuk]

Yeah, sorry, changed hosting providers and mucked up my links and images and stuff. Trying to dig up an old hard drive, they should be on there I think.

And yes, they won't work beyond FM12.

If anyone has the schedules, feel free to send me a PM and I can do the hosting if you'd prefer, or do it yourself, all cool with me.

[blasco]

Still didn't find the files?? We need this schedules

[SkyCaptain]

Any new links to download these?

[miki maus]

Any one with links for schedlues?

[bibanuuu]

Please, someone share a link for schedules!

[wobbly007]

Here you go, hope this works. I always use this schedule on FM12 http://www.sendspace.com/file/rdaxow

[bibanuuu]

Here you go, hope this works. I always use this schedule on FM12 http://www.sendspace.com/file/rdaxow

Thanks a lot, mate!

[ronaldo1026]

I've used this training guide and it's helped me tremendously. Now I've come across a month-long winter break - is it okay to rest the entire team for a week (we're in excellent condition and I've built up some good depth) or keep them going, then play easy friendlies to keep morale and tactical fluidity at its max? The human side of FM says I should at least give them Christmas off!

[miki maus]

Here you go, hope this works. I always use this schedule on FM12 http://www.sendspace.com/file/rdaxow

Thanks mate!!!

Cheers!