Training The Furious Way

[alfieham]

Im not massively clued up on the training side of things in FM but i normally take a sort of real-life approach. What i mean is if i have say,a for instance a slow technically sound DM with not the best mental stats,i'll normally give him extra work on aerobic and tactical training with the rest ticking over, does theis sort of an approach not work then?

[furiousuk]

Im not massively clued up on the training side of things in FM but i normally take a sort of real-life approach. What i mean is if i have say,a for instance a slow technically sound DM with not the best mental stats,i'll normally give him extra work on aerobic and tactical training with the rest ticking over, does theis sort of an approach not work then?

What you're suggesting is a personalised schedule and it's definitely the best way to go for actually 'perfecting' a player. Depending on how you wanted to approach it you could try and minimise his faults (as you're suggesting) OR you could try and maximise his strengths. The former builds an all-round player whereas the latter builds a specialised player. Generic schedules like the ones that come with the game or I've posted here are in the former category, only individual schedules can be in the latter.

The way I see it there are 3 types of schedule - individual, generic positional and graded generic.

Individual -

These are schedules created for specific players. It is up to the manager what criteria they are created against but the important thing is that they consider the actual attributes and development of the player making use of the schedule. They do not need to be as time consuming as is often reckoned but are the most time consuming of your training schedule options.

PROs

Specialised for every player - offering the best opportunity for training a player optimally

Necessitate monitoring - this is a strength because it forces you to check on a player and change appropriately

CONs

Labour and time intensive - this is the biggest downer, it doesn't take as long as you think but longer than the other options. Not everyone has the time or inclination for this (and that's cool, I'm in time category myself at the moment)

Necessitates monitoring - Similar to the above, this method requires your attention but the more of it you put in the more you'll get out.

Generic Positional -

These schedules are based purely on a representation of a player in the position the schedule is designed for. The ones that come with the game are not even positional but based on an overall role for the team (i.e. Defender, Midfielder, Attacker). These schedules WILL develop your players just fine (there's more to development than just their schedule) and don't require much effort or time either but their development won't be optimal.

PROs

Easiest to use - just place a player in there and forget about him

Minimal time and effort - Similar to above, but re-emphasised because this is the reason you'd use generic schedules

CONs

Less optimal player progression - You're going to get gains and losses where you don't want them occasionally because the schedules weren't designed with the specific player in mind

Does not require monitoring - This is a negative because whilst checking on them is still useful, unless you have a number of different positional schedules you can't do much even if you spot a problem.

Graded Generic -

The schedules I've produced here are graded by position and by development range. They are slightly more specialised than a straight generic schedule but are still optimised for my view of the 'perfect' player for my team in a certain position (I'll elaborate in a bit) and not for the specific players in the schedule. They require slightly more effort than straight generic schedules and give slightly more optimised results, but not as optimal as individual schedules.

PROs

Slightly more optimised - They take into account player development.

Require monitoring - At least once a year, so not too much but it does force you to check on your players from time to time.

A good balance between time and efficiency - This is purely subjective of course but for me the results are significantly better enough to warrant a bit of extra effort on my part.

CONs

Not as efficient as individual schedules - This does grate somewhat but it's a trade-off you have to make if you don't have the time or inclination.

They're still generic - If you have one brute of a DM and one creative DM they'll be on the same schedule but require very different handling meaning that one of them will not be optimal (infact, neither will be but that's going a bit TOO deep). This effect is diminished by offering numerous schedules, you can always stick the creative one on an MC or AMC schedule.

Require more effort and monitoring than true generic - They do require more time, particularly if you want to make your own as there are many schedules.

Tailoring a schedule to create a 'club'

I've written quite a lot about creating a 'club atmosphere' but have usually linked that to tactical decisions i.e. irrespective of personel over the years Ferguson's Utd have always been different from Wenger's Arsenal etc etc. Now whilst those club atmospheres are typified by their tactical decisions they are primarily created by their training methods.

Barcelona have a superb academy that specialises in producing technically gifted footballers. Whilst Guardiola, a manager who respects technical ability, is at the helm this is fantastic for the young players and has allows them to become the biggest club in the world whilst also keeping an eye (alright, a weary eye) on their transfer bottom line. But unless whoever the new manager is spends money on 'buying' a team the club will remain a 'technical' club for years to come. This is their 'flavour'.

Arsenal, Man Utd, Chelsea now, even Liverpool still, all retain a different 'flavour'. Whilst they will all line up slightly differently you roughly know what to expect. I'm not an expert on real-life football but even I know that Chelsea are primarily a 'power' team (and woe betide any manager who tries to alter that too quickly Mr Villas-Boas), Arsenal a technical team and Utd a determined one.

In each of these cases the manager is key to emphasising or diminishing this flavour but for any manager who has been at the club for a significant amount of time (i.e. Ferguson and Wenger) the whole club is set up to maximise their brand of football.

Arsenal certainly weren't technical and flamboyant before Wenger but they will be for a while after because that is what the player (and youth players) and the club is set around.

Key to making this happen over any length of time is training methods and training philosophy, particularly in the youth. Barcelona, Man Utd and to a lesser extent Arsenal have provided the top flight of football with many sparkling talents that haven't quite made it to their own first team over the last number of years.

You can do this in FM too if you like by taking care over your schedules.

As I mentioned somewhere above, the more you put in the more you get out. It's that simple.

[Romanista1994]

The way I see it there are 3 types of schedule - individual, generic positional and graded generic.

Another option is to have a mix between individual and generic schedules, for example creating individual schedules for young players already at the club/joining the club so that they benefit the most from their training and leaving the senior players, who should already be more 'complete' players, on generic positional schedules. That's the way I've been doing it on FM12 and will probably continue to because of a lack of time.

Very good post though, I particularly like the creating a club part. What's your Southampton like now? I remember you saying that you had relied on brute physical strength to get you to the top and would now build a more technical and intelligent squad.

[alfieham]

Cheers @furious yeah that's what I meant I do individual but you have just made me think I try to improve there weaknesses at times I should build on their strengths. I may do why's has been said a group of generic for say veterans and then individual ones too.

Cheers

[alfieham]

Yeah I tend to do individual regimes,but you have made me think intend to try to improve their weaknesses which isn't always the best way to go. I'm probably going to do a few generic for say veterans,then individual ones too.

Cheers

[furiousuk]

Another option is to have a mix between individual and generic schedules, for example creating individual schedules for young players already at the club/joining the club so that they benefit the most from their training and leaving the senior players, who should already be more 'complete' players, on generic positional schedules. That's the way I've been doing it on FM12 and will probably continue to because of a lack of time.

Yeah I think thats a great way of doing it. The guy (Esposito) in the screenshot is a classic example of where I've wanted to do this. My DM schedules are biased towards creating a 'covering' DM, a guy with great physicality who is able to cover the ground (pace, acc) to close down danger areas, do this reliably (stamina) and physically dominate the game (strength) whilst having the smarts to identify dangerous areas, react to situations and play sensibly with the ball. This isn't going to be Esposito's game. He will never be physical enough for this while his skillset is better matched to be better with the ball - he's never going to be a truly top class DLP but if I can buff his creative aspect he'll do a job for me and do it differently from my other options.

SFraser noted this is one of his training threads - if you can make a player capable of doing a job then its more useful to you than a player attempted to be proficient at all jobs and failing. If I stuck Esposito on the DM schedule he'd improve his mentals more (which is good) and he'd get slightly more physical (but never a proper specimen) whereas he wouldn't improve his repertoire as much. I'd end up with a player not quite able to do any job for me.

So he's on MC or AMC schedules.

Very good post though, I particularly like the creating a club part. What's your Southampton like now? I remember you saying that you had relied on brute physical strength to get you to the top and would now build a more technical and intelligent squad.

The guy above is more typical of the regens I'm gradually moving in to the squad. Less physical, still mental enough, but with increased technical ability and more specialised to do a job. The squad is still very physical with good pace, strength and stamina but the new, younger guys all have good to great technique. It's already having an impact with the type of play I'm seeing.

Half volley from the corner of the 18 yard box with his outside foot straight across his body and looping over the GK to the far corner of the goal!! Even Van Basten would be proud!

This is the 'genius' who scored this (and other equally amazing) goals:

Hardly a genius.

Quick and fit with fairly good technical skillset for a traditional winger whilst also determined and hard-working enough to do a job.

Not well rounded. Not able to delicately thread a through ball in between a packed defence. Not able to contribute much defensively and could well struggle with pressure (actually he does alright in big games but I think if anyone kicks him around too much he loses heart, coward). Not even a good finisher.

So how'd he do that?

Simple, flair and technique.

But my other right winger is a super physical striker or sometimes Jack Wilshere. So this guy is totally different and produces a totally different dynamic which is crucial for creating a good squad. He didn't have a particularly prolific season although was fairly busy when given a start. I don't have a more up-to-date screenie but his subsequent seasons have seen him have more of a role, so much so that I've moved around my star AMR to incorporate him.

Now that I'm at the top things change and things have to change as technique and mentals become more important for consistent success and breaking through the negativity you meet more regularly.

Yeah I tend to do individual regimes,but you have made me think intend to try to improve their weaknesses which isn't always the best way to go. I'm probably going to do a few generic for say veterans,then individual ones too.

Cheers

Mixing and matching is a good thing to do to start with. If a guy is an example of your 'typical' ideal of a position then the individual schedule is going to look very similar to the positional one so there isn't much point in creating one in that case.

Also, unless you are changing someone's position or specifically changing the role they're filling in your squad then your '1st-teamers' should already be well-developed players who need to concentrate more on performance than improvement. In that case they need a fairly balanced training schedule that keeps them ticking over. They don't really require an individual schedule.

[alfieham]

Yeah true,I'm not planning on staying at my club long started a career game unemployed. It is more for the younger talented players at the squad.

Funnily enough the DM someone asked about on this page is a guy who I was focusing on his weaknesses(athletic),you helped me realise he is never going to be physically great but I can improve his strengths and make him a decent DLP. I'M actually a bit annoyed with myself for not seeing that I alway focus on weaknesses.

What is best to do with players on youth contracts? Make generics regimes? Cos you can only give them do much training am I correct in thinking.

[furiousuk]

Yeah true,I'm not planning on staying at my club long started a career game unemployed. It is more for the younger talented players at the squad. Funnily enough the DM someone asked about on this page is a guy who I was focusing on his weaknesses(athletic),you helped me realise he is never going to be physically great but I can improve his strengths and make him a decent DLP. I'M actually a bit annoyed with myself for not seeing that I alway focus on weaknesses. What is best to do with players on youth contracts? Make generics regimes? Cos you can only give them do much training am I correct in thinking.

I'm still on fm11 and things have changed regarding youth contracts so I can't really advise other than to say get them full time any way possible and get them playing any way possible - intensive time in youth and reserves is good but usually better is a good loan club with a good manager.

.Try cleons thread if you have a specific on youth stuff, she covers loads in there on fm12 and fm in general.

[Romanista1994]

I like the approach of having different players who can interpret the same role differently and can each do damage in their own way. Variation is one of the things that I always like to have throughout my squad. I also agree that training a player to be specialised in one role can often be more useful than having him decent at many roles. Training to be able to do at least a job for the first team early on is my main priority when training youngsters and I've usually had good results as them being able to play decently at first team level means they improve, which means they play better, which means they improve further and so on.

Oh and congrats on your new moderator status, well deserved.

[stothy]

Basically, I'm looking to making a tactic including a Sweeper/Libero, I have it all set out, but I have no Sweeper. Is there any chance you could create a Sweeper regime so I can mould one?

[furiousuk]

Basically, I'm looking to making a tactic including a Sweeper/Libero, I have it all set out, but I have no Sweeper. Is there any chance you could create a Sweeper regime so I can mould one?

I can do, that's not a problem but it's not a position I have much experience with. How does it differ from CB? Do the differences make the schedule the same as the DM? I suspect they probably do in which case there is nothing wrong with placing a player in the DM schedule and retraining his position to sweeper.

There's a few things to remember though:

* Training is an irrigation system that distributes gains (and losses) - sorry I can't remember who that is quoted from, if it's you then tell me and I'll reference you the next time I use it!

* Training influences a players' development (ah, durrr!) but there is only so much it will change. John Terry, for example, is never going to be a great sweeper despite his dedication and determination (I'm talking if you got him at 16) - his skillset just has too many differences from a classic sweeper/libero but is far suited to the role he's adopted during his career. Gary Cahill, on the other hand, (or Rio Ferdinand) would be far more suited as they are better on the ball to begin with.

* This phrase is only moderately relevant but I like the phrase so I'll repeat it here - you can't polish a turd. If the player you are training is wholly unsuited to the role you're trying to train him for then forget about it because its not going to happen.

* Your idea of a sweeper/libero will likely differ from mine and as I have no experience using such a schedule I can't tell you whether it's going to be any good or not. Each schedule, even the couple I added after the original, I've had players on for a few years so I know they work pretty well. If I match them correctly to the player then they work very well.

If you read post #2 it shows how I made each schedule. It's not difficult or time-consuming to do it yourself and I'd highly recommend giving it a go. I use a system of clicks to give some order to how I set up my schedules but the click system is unnecessary (it's benefit is in its usage, not its outcomes), if you *think* you should go a couple of notches higher or lower then do so - you won't and can't break the "system" like that.

Have a go at making them, if the next 3 attribute points all go into strength (they won't) instead of passing or creativity then you've probably done something wrong (but you won't).

I like the approach of having different players who can interpret the same role differently and can each do damage in their own way. Variation is one of the things that I always like to have throughout my squad. I also agree that training a player to be specialised in one role can often be more useful than having him decent at many roles. Training to be able to do at least a job for the first team early on is my main priority when training youngsters and I've usually had good results as them being able to play decently at first team level means they improve, which means they play better, which means they improve further and so on.

There's a couple of lengthy threads on squad-building but I've always wanted to do one myself and I'm just on the verge of slowly edging the old guard out and creating a new team which might give me the emphasis to do a squad-building thread. Replacing players as you rise in status is fairly straight-forward but developing a squad requires a bit more nouse and guile I think. Particularly if you're working to any sort of budget.

I'd love to have a youngster come through my youth academy, progress through the U18s and become a star for my first team. I've bought in a youngster at 16/17 and had them progress to a 1st team star on a number of occasions but never had a homegrown (i.e. at the club) player through. Never had the talent to be honest. I like the challenge of developing them based on what I require of them NOW and what I think I'm going to require of them in the future. It's part of squad-balancing I guess, maybe I should coin the phrase progressive and predictive squad-balancing?

Oh and congrats on your new moderator status, well deserved.

Many thanks

[Romanista1994]

There's a couple of lengthy threads on squad-building but I've always wanted to do one myself and I'm just on the verge of slowly edging the old guard out and creating a new team which might give me the emphasis to do a squad-building thread. Replacing players as you rise in status is fairly straight-forward but developing a squad requires a bit more nouse and guile I think. Particularly if you're working to any sort of budget.

Would be great if you did a squad building thread and I'd certainly do my best to contribute to it.

I'd love to have a youngster come through my youth academy, progress through the U18s and become a star for my first team. I've bought in a youngster at 16/17 and had them progress to a 1st team star on a number of occasions but never had a homegrown (i.e. at the club) player through. Never had the talent to be honest. I like the challenge of developing them based on what I require of them NOW and what I think I'm going to require of them in the future. It's part of squad-balancing I guess, maybe I should coin the phrase progressive and predictive squad-balancing?

I've been quite lucky on both FM10 and FM12 in getting youngsters through. In an all-Italian Roma save on FM10 I had 4/5 proper first teamers and a number of backups who came through my youth squad (one of them doing a Pique/Fabregas in being sold and later bought back), on the save with Christian Erichsen my starting goalkeeper came through in the first season and at Barakaldo I had a few starters in the Segunda B and Liga Adelante. Those saves are all abandoned though and I haven't had much luck so far in my current Roma save, but I'll keep my fingers crossed for both of us. However, I do think that it's become easier to get good youths through on FM12 with the addition of Junior Coaching, which plays part in the starting ability of the intakes, and the removal of the FM11 Youth Recruitment bugs.

[furiousuk]

At Southampton I've got top youth facilities and decent youth coaches and I get a decent intake but nothing spectacular. I normally end up keeping 3 or 4 which I don't think is actually too bad. I can often make a bit of money on them but nothing exciting. I almost always sign 10-12 16 year olds each year (I normally run a budget of 8-10M for youth) so my U18's run to about a squad of 15 to 18 players whilst I'll have a few more 17/18 years olds who could play for the U18s out on loan. I know its different for FM12 and requires different handling.

[Abaddon879]

I am currently using the old SFraser schedules which are based on many of the principles used here, but I am always on the lookout to improve my training.

I can see that these would require a little more micro-management, but would these show a better return compared to SFrasers set would you say?

[furiousuk]

I am currently using the old SFraser schedules which are based on many of the principles used here, but I am always on the lookout to improve my training.

Other way round, much of what is presented here is learnt from SFraser. I added a bit but I'm not trying to pass it all off as original ideas

I can see that these would require a little more micro-management, but would these show a better return compared to SFrasers set would you say?

It's been a while since I looked at SFrasers' training thread but I know the idea of creating a base schedule and multiplying by the number of attributes in a category came directly from SFraser but I don't think he used schedules based on development age did he? Oh, he may well of done but I know a lot of what he was saying was leading to individual training schedules anyway, which I believe he moved to in the end because he enjoyed spending time in that area.

It's hard to say that one set of training schedules are better than another as most have merits and drawbacks in different situations. I think mine work great because they are differentiated by position and by development stage and because they almost force a user to keep checking up on their players (at least once a year). This second step is very very important if you really want to crank the efficiency of your training (it'll never be as efficient as individual schedules but its a fairly good balance between results, ease of use and time).

I can say that in most cases it's better than generic schedules or straight positional schedules but its not as efficient as individual schedules. You might of missed a post a few days ago (have a look up the thread a bit for a 'colourful' post ) that explains in more detail.

The micro-management is as involved as you want it to be. Generally I'll put players in the pre-season routines until they are ready for the season (usually a week or 2 before first game, differs for different players), I'll then take a bit of time (not too long) to decide which schedule to place a player on for the year. I check that players are progressing alright normally once a month (some players I look at more, some players less) at least by checking the training arrows (these have changed slightly for FM12 and are more sensitive than my FM11 butt is used to) and very very rarely I'll change a players' schedule during the season but if you didn't want to check that closely on players they'd still develop well if they're playing well.

The things that I've noticed about these training methods vs other methods I've used (admittedly on different versions of FM):

* Attributes gains are more obviously pronounced where I want them.

* I'm better able to specialise a player (linked to the 1st point).

* The loan system absolutely rocks.

* I've had great great success at extending the life of older players.

* I have far less injuries.

* My squad are always pretty chipper.

* I've developed better squad relations.

At some point I'll have to adapt these schedules because my squad is changing and I need schedules that better reflect that change in ability.

[Abaddon879]

Other way round, much of what is presented here is learnt from SFraser. I added a bit but I'm not trying to pass it all off as original ideas

Yeah sorry that's what I meant. I can see you have put a lot of extra work in though and appear to have created more specialised schedules whereas SFraser stopped short at base positions such as GK, DL/R, CB, MC, AMC, AML/R, FC - DLF, ST -AF.

I will give your schedules a go as I do like that added element of detail that these seem to add. Is there a post that gives a breakdown of what sort of players belong in which schedules (particularly the attacking roles as you now have WNG, IF, POA, STR, TGM, AMC in v2 and I could not see a breakdown of the additional schedules)?

[furiousuk]

Yeah sorry that's what I meant. I can see you have put a lot of extra work in though and appear to have created more specialised schedules whereas SFraser stopped short at base positions such as GK, DL/R, CB, MC, AMC, AML/R, FC - DLF, ST -AF.

I will give your schedules a go as I do like that added element of detail that these seem to add. Is there a post that gives a breakdown of what sort of players belong in which schedules (particularly the attacking roles as you now have WNG, IF, POA, STR, TGM, AMC in v2 and I could not see a breakdown of the additional schedules)?

Yeah, fair point actually.

At the moment I'm wrestling with my printer but when I have that little problem solved (give me an hour, if it isn't sorted by then the printer is going out the window) I'll provide a short write-up and some screenies to show the type of player I currently have on those schedules and why.

[Abaddon879]

Yeah, fair point actually.

At the moment I'm wrestling with my printer but when I have that little problem solved (give me an hour, if it isn't sorted by then the printer is going out the window) I'll provide a short write-up and some screenies to show the type of player I currently have on those schedules and why.

Great work, always good to see a tactic or training creator still very active and monitoring their thread. It's excellent to get quick responses.

Oh, and congratulations on being promoted to Moderator, good work

[PequenoGenio]

Work on FM 12?

I want to test this

[Abaddon879]

Work on FM 12?

I want to test this

Yes, these work on FM 2012. The only slight difference is the separation of Goalkeeping into two categories, but other than that I believe training stayed pretty much the same.

[furiousuk]

Work on FM 12?

I want to test this

Yes, these work on FM 2012. The only slight difference is the separation of Goalkeeping into two categories, but other than that I believe training stayed pretty much the same.

A couple of attributes have moved categories which technically should change all the slider positions but in reality no-one has noted anything. The slider position theory is flawed in many ways anyway, it's only a basis to create the schedules. The schedules work very well and I know that through the experience of many different people in 'real-world' situations, not just based on theory.

Great work, always good to see a tactic or training creator still very active and monitoring their thread. It's excellent to get quick responses.

Oh, and congratulations on being promoted to Moderator, good work

Many thanks, and many thanks!

I will give your schedules a go as I do like that added element of detail that these seem to add. Is there a post that gives a breakdown of what sort of players belong in which schedules (particularly the attacking roles as you now have WNG, IF, POA, STR, TGM, AMC in v2 and I could not see a breakdown of the additional schedules)?

Yeah, fair point actually.

At the moment I'm wrestling with my printer but when I have that little problem solved (give me an hour, if it isn't sorted by then the printer is going out the window) I'll provide a short write-up and some screenies to show the type of player I currently have on those schedules and why.

Ok, printer went in the bin. Stupid Win7 and old printers. There is a solution but its not for tonight!

SOME MORE PLAYER EXAMPLES

WNG (Winger)

Wingers for me are traditional British wingers. Hard working, very quick and fit, good with the ball at their feet and good at getting the ball into the area (crossing is essential but they have to have some vision to spot opportunities). This means they need dribbling, crossing, pace, agility, acceleration and stamina in abundance whilst work rate, technique (this is overlooked in my opinion but augments all the other technical abilities), balance and a bit of vision (creativity, decisions, teamwork, and anticipation) never hurt anybody. Flair and off the ball are also useful but a winger is typified by pace, dribbling and crossing ability in my book.

The guy (Luiz) featured further up the thread typifies this skillset, here's a newer shot of him (he's been injured for a while in the screenie but was enjoying a sparkling season - he's shed a little technical ability including technique (GRR!) but that should bounce back up when he recovers hopefully).

IF (INSIDE FORWARD)

Inside forwards for me are best summed up as strikers on the wing. They cut inside and create destruction. They are usually used opposite footed (i.e. a right footer on the left and vice versa) but with the relevant amount of technique and mentals this isn't a requirement. They are fast, good with the ball at their feet and pretty darned good at getting the ball in the net. PPM's can be useful to augment striking ability.

I've talked about this chap in a number of my threads and will continue to do so (hopefully) for a long time. Apart from his anticipation and determination which are pretty shoddy his skillset is firmly that of a striker but I've played predominantly lone striker formations and he's not really well rounded or creative enough for me to play regularly through the middle so he is out at AMR with a left peg to cut inside and drop bombs - which he does extremely regularly (for Belarus he plays isolated up front in a 4141 and has scored something like 35 gls from 20 apps in the last couple of years so what do I know?)

POA (Poacher)

A poacher lives to get the ball in the net. He doesn't necessarily need an abundance of pace but he needs the smarts to know where the net is and the technical ability to get the ball there. Loads of anticipation, off the ball, finishing, technique (this guy needs to get the ball in from all sorts of odd angles and whilst off balance, under pressure etc), concentration and composure. So high in mental and shooting but slightly less in physical than maybe some people were expecting (all of my schedules are fairly physically heavy though).

STR (Striker)

A basic striker differs from the poacher because they are more rounded as a player - a poacher is a specialised version of the Striker. A striker is pretty physical in my book with good pace and a bit of strength to be able to mix it (at least a bit) with big burly centre-halves who want to chop them in half. So very high in aerobic and shooting and more modest in the other categories to keep them more rounded.

TGM (Target-man - Creative)

I think some people might be surprised at my target-man schedules but they are meant for a biggish creative type who can match it with the CB's up front but also has an eye on playing in his team-mates. A targetman should be strong and good in the air and able to finish well but part of his role should be playing in other players as well. So attacking training is fairly high to train creativity and passing whilst strength is slightly favoured over aerobic.

You won't of seen this guy before because I have only just purchased him (there will be more coming on this very soon, hopefully next week) but, whilst he isn't without his flaws, he pretty much sums up the above - strong, good in the air, good mentally (particularly creativity and decisions which is a great combo) and technical enough to do justice to his vision (he knows where the net is too - his international start (not under my guidance at all) has been immense).

AMC (Attacking Midfielder)

The AMC position in your tactics can be played in very different styles but for the purpose of the schedule a classic Gazza-style midfield maestro is assumed. It is actually a fairly well rounded schedule that puts an emphasis on mental and technical over physical. The developing schedule tries to boost mental ability (including creativity which is obviously critical in this position) whilst the 1st team schedule brings the technical side back in line with the emphasis on mentals. Technique is very important for this position but in my experience you can't massively influence the rate of increase of technique so I don't emphasise ball control to try and do that - to be a truly great AM you've got to be 'born' with good technique.

Here's an example of Jack Wilshere in 2021. I normally play him wider but he pretty much sums up a typical AM. Not abundant physically but pretty good mentals matched with good technicals. Whilst he isn't bereft of defensive ability his skillset is clearly more attack-minded than defensive.

Sorry didn't quite make the hour!

[Widzew]

2) Only send players on loan when they have the personality for it.

How can you tell if a player has the personality for it??

BTW Amazing write up you got here. I can't wait to get home from work and implement your system into my Widzew Lodz(Poland) team and see what happens.

I'm only in my second season at this club. I'm running default training schedules. Players are already complaining their workload is to heavy. Will I have major problems with your system if I put it in now?

[Abaddon879]

Sorry didn't quite make the hour!

You are forgiven, especially as you have given such an in-depth analysis of the attacking schedules. Makes selecting what schedules to use for my players a lot easier.

It definitely seems that these schedules are designed for the long term and with youth production in mind? They seem to be structured so certain stats are increased during certain periods of their development (such as Youth, Development, and 1st team). If you bring in a youngster (say 18-24), but they are playing first team football on a regular basis for you, would they warrant the use of 1st team due to the workload, or is the development schedule suited to playing regular football? I wouldn't want one of my up and coming players missing out on development due to playing him regularly in the first team.

[furiousuk]

2) Only send players on loan when they have the personality for it.

How can you tell if a player has the personality for it??

BTW Amazing write up you got here. I can't wait to get home from work and implement your system into my Widzew Lodz(Poland) team and see what happens.

I'm only in my second season at this club. I'm running default training schedules. Players are already complaining their workload is to heavy. Will I have major problems with your system if I put it in now?

Understanding personality is pretty difficult but you get a good idea by looking at their 'personal' screen and checking out their personality and media-handling type or on your squad screen you can view by 'Assistant Report' and it'll show each squad members' personality. Your staff or scout reports will also show you some good stuff. After a while you get to understand how a player will react to interaction and that is your biggest clue although this is hard to judge in youngsters that you don't keep such a close eye on.

There's a post somewhere (just had a quick look and couldn't find it but try searching for personality - here's a link but I thought I had a more up to date list that included media handling hmm) that's a little old but still relevant I think that goes through the different personality types and what goes in to each personality trait. If you don't want to know about hidden attributes and what they are etc then it's fairly straight forward (be aware that real players might HAVE a bad personality but will always be written as balanced, regens will be named as being casual or slack etc etc). It's fairly self explanatory which are good personalities and which are bad but it's hard to tell which could be better.

My squad, for example, are mainly determined or professional with a couple of resilient's and spirited thrown in, I even have 1 model pro and 1 driven which is pretty nice. My U18's are fairly similar but there are a few ambitious I would like to round out and a few fairly pro/determined who I would like to improve to pro/determined.

The schedules often work better at better clubs who can carry more coaches and better facilities but give them a go. If after a month or 2 every one is complaining then you'll know they are too heavy for your facilities/coaches/players. Just lower the intensity bar on each schedule a few notches and try again for a month or two and repeat until everyone is happy (be aware that a few might complain but they might be the guys who just like a whinge - I haven't had a complainer for years and years but I have excellent facilities, excellent coaches and a professional and determined squad, if I wasn't at the top I might tolerate different personalities).

You are forgiven, especially as you have given such an in-depth analysis of the attacking schedules. Makes selecting what schedules to use for my players a lot easier.

It definitely seems that these schedules are designed for the long term and with youth production in mind? They seem to be structured so certain stats are increased during certain periods of their development (such as Youth, Development, and 1st team). If you bring in a youngster (say 18-24), but they are playing first team football on a regular basis for you, would they warrant the use of 1st team due to the workload, or is the development schedule suited to playing regular football? I wouldn't want one of my up and coming players missing out on development due to playing him regularly in the first team.

The choice of when a player is a Development player and when he is a 1st teamer is always difficult. My general rule of thumb is that if the player is going to START less than 15/20 games in the season then he should be on the development schedule but if he is going to be starting more then he's good enough to be a 1st team regular and should be on 1st schedules. However, this requires a big squad.

If you run a smaller squad as most clubs outside the top 6-8 will then you have to make allowances. The development schedules are very intensive but if a player still needed a boost in the specific areas the schedule highlights then they'd be on the dev schedules. If they just need a more overall improvement to really develop into a better player then I'd stick them in the 1st team schedule.

[RedBones]

Excellent stuff Furious (the tactics themselves, as well as replying to all the questions on here)

I’ve read everything here, and I apologise but I’ve borrowed the philosophy behind these training methods and created my own. Tactical plagiarism you could call it

I’ve yet to put them into practice though as that real football stuff has been on the telly a lot this week (only got FM’12 last week so I’m early in season 1 as Liverpool [Oh not again! Ed]

I’m sure I’m not alone in being one of the CM/FM players over the years who gets more reward from the game by scouting & developing young players, and then 3-4 seasons later seeing them break into the 1st team, before peaking as top performers in the game a few seasons after that..

There are some hits, and some misses, but that’s the beauty of it, and it also makes it a challenge. This training philosophy has a lot of logic, and so I look forward to seeing its results. Thank you.

[Romanista1994]

There's a post somewhere (just had a quick look and couldn't find it but try searching for personality - here's a link but I thought I had a more up to date list that included media handling hmm) that's a little old but still relevant I think that goes through the different personality types and what goes in to each personality trait.

Here it is.

[Widzew]

Thanks a lot for the reply. I’ve been using your schedules and I’ve seen great improvements.

Question… In the Polish league once the transfer window opens in January there is a big break between games. 1.5-2 months. Depending if your in Europa or not.. Would you recommend during that break I use the preseason heavy schedule or stick to the regular season ones?

[duskhorizon]

I know that is kinda off-topic but can anyone recommend me some good part-time schedules?

Thanks.

[furiousuk]

I know that is kinda off-topic but can anyone recommend me some good part-time schedules?

Thanks.

Sorry dude, I've never required part-time schedules so don't have any experience with them. I think the general consensus is that part-timers don't train enough to see drastic improvements - they'll improve sure but you can't really use training to 'funnel' growth and decay where you want it so part-timers just need really general schedules (Def, Mid, Att would probably do) and they'll develop pretty naturally.

Try using the search button in the top right-hand corner, might throw up some more stuff.

Question… In the Polish league once the transfer window opens in January there is a big break between games. 1.5-2 months. Depending if your in Europa or not.. Would you recommend during that break I use the preseason heavy schedule or stick to the regular season ones?

That's a cracking question and I don't think I've seen anything posted on it before. Unfortunately I'm not really in a position to help much as I've never been in that situation! If I were to speculate on my approach however...

I'd approach it as a mini pre-season (although nearly 2 mths is a LONG time). I'd probably let the players have a little break for a week or 2 (depending on if they needed it) and then stick them on pre-season schedules until a week or 2 before the season resumes as you would do at the start of the season. Do you play friendlies in the break at all?

I think the challenge is to STOP the decline of stats while your boys aren't playing games and pre-season schedules are probably best equipped to do that (although any fairly hard generic schedule would be a good choice).

If you're really clever then you could use the time to try and redistribute a few points. By resting for a week or two (or maybe longer if you've got 6/8 wks to play with) they may well shed a few points, if you could try and lose stats you wouldn't mind losing then you could use a different schedule and crank back up the intensity to try and regain those points in better places when they start playing again.

Here it is.

Many thanks! Hat doffed in your direction!

I've also bookmarked the link now

Excellent stuff Furious (the tactics themselves, as well as replying to all the questions on here)

I’ve read everything here, and I apologise but I’ve borrowed the philosophy behind these training methods and created my own. Tactical plagiarism you could call it

I’ve yet to put them into practice though as that real football stuff has been on the telly a lot this week (only got FM’12 last week so I’m early in season 1 as Liverpool [Oh not again! Ed]

I’m sure I’m not alone in being one of the CM/FM players over the years who gets more reward from the game by scouting & developing young players, and then 3-4 seasons later seeing them break into the 1st team, before peaking as top performers in the game a few seasons after that..

There are some hits, and some misses, but that’s the beauty of it, and it also makes it a challenge. This training philosophy has a lot of logic, and so I look forward to seeing its results. Thank you.

Hopefully you'll get some good results! Feel free to post up some screenies when you've got a little way in, would be good to see your success after a year or so (lots of years progression would be good if you've got a good breakdown! I wish I'd been taking shots every year, I've only done it with a few players for 3-4 yrs and they are all youngsters who haven't yet matured so not much to show...yet!

[Widzew]

That's a cracking question and I don't think I've seen anything posted on it before. Unfortunately I'm not really in a position to help much as I've never been in that situation! If I were to speculate on my approach however...

I'd approach it as a mini pre-season (although nearly 2 mths is a LONG time). I'd probably let the players have a little break for a week or 2 (depending on if they needed it) and then stick them on pre-season schedules until a week or 2 before the season resumes as you would do at the start of the season. Do you play friendlies in the break at all?

I think the challenge is to STOP the decline of stats while your boys aren't playing games and pre-season schedules are probably best equipped to do that (although any fairly hard generic schedule would be a good choice).

If you're really clever then you could use the time to try and redistribute a few points. By resting for a week or two (or maybe longer if you've got 6/8 wks to play with) they may well shed a few points, if you could try and lose stats you wouldn't mind losing then you could use a different schedule and crank back up the intensity to try and regain those points in better places when they start playing again.

Last season as I had no Euro games I had 9 weeks off... I normally dont schedule friendlies unless the AI offers them.. do you recommend I schedule some? WOuld that be more beneficial than putting them on a preseason hard schedule?

Another question... Right now im at the stage of this club where every young player i buy (under 20) goes straight into the first team as they are way better then the players i got now. Should I be putting these lads on the first team schedules or should I still use the youth and dev ones depending on their age??

Thanks in advance!

[furiousuk]

Last season as I had no Euro games I had 9 weeks off... I normally dont schedule friendlies unless the AI offers them.. do you recommend I schedule some? WOuld that be more beneficial than putting them on a preseason hard schedule?

9 weeks off! Jeez! I guess it gets pretty cold in January in Poland though.

I've played sport in situations where we have a bit of a gap in the middle of the season (nothing like 9 weeks though!) and I think most teams use the time as a pre-season. With 9 weeks off it's like 2 short seasons that are stitched together rather than 1 longer season.

I'd probably have 2/3 weeks of light intensity to bring any jadedness down, recover injuries etc etc (I'd probably judge this based on the player, your workhorse midfielder who has played every minute will require more of a break than your rotation striker for example). Your players may lose a point here although maybe not as they have only just finished playing really.

I'd then crank up the intensity and have a short pre-season for about 4 weeks to try and either regain a point or stop them falling.

That would leave 2 weeks where I'd slowly bring down the intensity to a normal seasonal level based on whether the players' have regained fitness (not sharpness, just condition). If your first game is on a Saturday I'd play two easy-ish friendlies on the Saturdays before with a mid-week game (or two) if you have a large squad. This should help them regain sharpness and be ready to fire on all cylinders for the end of the season.

Another question... Right now im at the stage of this club where every young player i buy (under 20) goes straight into the first team as they are way better then the players i got now. Should I be putting these lads on the first team schedules or should I still use the youth and dev ones depending on their age??

Thanks in advance!

This is a tough call and one that only becomes easier with experience of using the schedules and seeing how they perform.

If they just need to improve across the board then the 1st team schedules are best as they are lower in intensity which should allow them to regain condition for all those games whilst the number of games will keep them gaining. This is probably what I'd choose most of the time.

For those guys who will miss the odd game or need a boost in specific places I'd consider using the Dev schedules. Infact, I'd probably start with that but if they were getting niggling injuries (particularly in training - impact injuries in games, and in training I suppose, are freak events and aren't regulated by training) or not regaining condition between games (if they go from 1 Saturday to another without getting back to 100% either your facilities are crap, the player is downright lazy, they're training too hard or they have pretty severe jadedness) I'd switch up to the 1st team schedules.

[Widzew]

Thanks alot bud, very helpful. Much appreciated.

[PequenoGenio]

I use this tactic http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/308616-Mr-Hough-s-4-2-1-3-for-FM12 and i use wingers in the STL and STR. i put them in IF schedules. I'm i doing it right or wrong?

[furiousuk]

Yeah from the list of desirable qualities given in the thread I think you are spot on!

[PequenoGenio]

Yeah from the list of desirable qualities given in the thread I think you are spot on!

Thanks a lot mate.. Amazing thread

[PequenoGenio]

Yeah from the list of desirable qualities given in the thread I think you are spot on!

One more thing..

And for the others positions what you recomend for ich position?

[furiousuk]

One more thing..

And for the others positions what you recomend for ich position?

I think they'll fit pretty normally into the schedules i.e. CBs into the CB schedule etc. The MC's could go on MC or AMC, depending on the player. Outside strikers sound like strike players so IF should be good and center striker is probably a TGM (Creative Targetman) or, possibly (I can't be sure just from the attributes listed), he might be more of a goal-scorer so STR or IF would fit.

Try to look at the player as well as the role you want them to play. It works best if you try to match up where the player is now and where they are going with what you want from them now and what you think you'll want from them in the future. I understand this is made more difficult using a downloaded tactic and I'd strongly recommend trying your hand at your own tactic (although you paid for it so it's up to you how you want to play ).

Looking at the outside strikers again, are they more creative? If they are then AMC might fit but watch their physicals because I think they need pace as well.

You won't do ANY harm at all by trying your players on the schedules and watching them for a few months. You should start to see a result after a few months with some players which will give you an idea. Any training schedule takes a year or longer to gain any visible results from but you can get an idea of how it is performing after 4-6 months. If after this time things aren't working then try a different schedule - whilst the schedules are designed for each position they aren't sufficiently extreme to allow any proper errors so don't worry about messing up a player - you can't.

[PequenoGenio]

My big doubt is in front of three men.

The STR ​​and STL are like IF advanced interior so IF schedules it's perfect.

Now the STC i'm in doubt which of the three best fits. I want thar STC be quick but great finishers.

A goal machine.

Regarding the MC he is the most creative in midfield so AMC?

[furiousuk]

Yeah AMC will be good for the creative midfielder. I'm using on my creative DMC at the moment to give him a boost to his creativity.

STR schedules hit finishing and aerobic ability but not too much else, POA is actually more rounded (due to being less physically intensive) for everything apart from creativity so I'd go STR or maybe IF schedules if speed and finishing is most important. TGM is more rounded but slightly favours brawn over pace. Maybe try and consider the player more than the role with this one. Also decide whether you want to emphasize the strengths of the player or make them more rounded.

[PequenoGenio]

You are the man:applause:

thanks

[coxy100]

Been using these schedules for years now - work wonderfully thanks

[furiousuk]

Been using these schedules for years now - work wonderfully thanks

Thanks for the feedback coxy - long may it continue.

I'll do some new ones for FM13

[fm_freak]

Where should I put Javier Hernandez? As poacher,striker or tgm?

[Full Time Legend]

Sorry is this has been mentioned before but are the 'Lite Rest' schedules for players returning from injury?

Thanks a lot for making these schedules, have been improving my teams on FM for months really appreciate it

[furiousuk]

Where should I put Javier Hernandez? As poacher,striker or tgm?

Depends entirely on how you want him to progress. Targetman I see more for strong but creative types rather than quick guys but if you wanted to round him out differently to his current skillset then it could be an option.

Can you post up a screenshot and I can say how I would train him for my team? (I won't be offended if you disagree and train him differently though )

Sorry is this has been mentioned before but are the 'Lite Rest' schedules for players returning from injury?

Thanks a lot for making these schedules, have been improving my teams on FM for months really appreciate it

Thanks for the feedback, it's always good to know they are working for people

Sorry I don't think I clarified coming back from injury and the rest schedules:

When players are coming back from injury I get them back on their regular schedule and carefully manage their reintroduction to the team based on the length of the injury period. The 'Lite Rest' schedules are for those periods during a season when you are playing loads of games, they are particularly useful if you have a small squad who you need to keep fresh. My schedules are pretty darned hard on a player and can cause fatigue and jadedness if you don't or can't manage your squad playing commitments.

I sometimes use them around New Year in the English season as you can potentially play twice a week, followed by 3 times the next week and 2 more times a week later - pretty tough on any squad, I can't imagine players train much at all during such a run in real-life (at least not physical training).

[fm_freak]

Depends entirely on how you want him to progress. Targetman I see more for strong but creative types rather than quick guys but if you wanted to round him out differently to his current skillset then it could be an option.

Can you post up a screenshot and I can say how I would train him for my team? (I won't be offended if you disagree and train him differently though )

I want him to fast striker with good finishing

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/8379/javierhernndezoverviewa.png

[furiousuk]

Yeah I'd go striker, it's heavier on the physical than poacher so should suit.

Maybe even inside forward - it's basically a striker schedule as well just slightly more rounded. Striker should be good though.

[Full Time Legend]

Depends entirely on how you want him to progress. Targetman I see more for strong but creative types rather than quick guys but if you wanted to round him out differently to his current skillset then it could be an option.

Can you post up a screenshot and I can say how I would train him for my team? (I won't be offended if you disagree and train him differently though )

Thanks for the feedback, it's always good to know they are working for people

Sorry I don't think I clarified coming back from injury and the rest schedules:

When players are coming back from injury I get them back on their regular schedule and carefully manage their reintroduction to the team based on the length of the injury period. The 'Lite Rest' schedules are for those periods during a season when you are playing loads of games, they are particularly useful if you have a small squad who you need to keep fresh. My schedules are pretty darned hard on a player and can cause fatigue and jadedness if you don't or can't manage your squad playing commitments.

I sometimes use them around New Year in the English season as you can potentially play twice a week, followed by 3 times the next week and 2 more times a week later - pretty tough on any squad, I can't imagine players train much at all during such a run in real-life (at least not physical training).

Thanks for that just started a game with Crewe and this has came in very handy with the start of the season due to lots of midweek league and cup games especially as we've gone to extra time twice in the league cup.

[furiousuk]

You might find this thread interesting from a passionate Crewe bloke!

[Full Time Legend]

You might find this thread interesting from a passionate Crewe bloke!

Good Read thanks for that