Training The Furious Way

[furiousuk]

The Way Of The Fury

Download link for all of the schedules

With FM2012 now out and my current FM2011 save eagerly anticipating a new season I thought I’d share the training schedules that I’ve been developing. These schedules are for FM2011 but most of the core of the training module is unchanged so will work fine for FM12. I don’t know if there is an option to import the schedules from FM11 to FM12 but I’ll briefly explain my method and how it works for me later in the thread (2^nd post) so that anyone who wants to create their own schedules but doesn’t know where to start will have something to go on.

Note: the method I use to shape my training schedules is not a new one and this short thread won’t be ground-breaking but it does create a system that works and is relatively quick and easy to use. Posts by SFraser, Cleon & Mantralux have most definitely shaped most of the methods I use.

The Method Behind The Madness

The download contains 37 schedules – there are 3 pre-season schedules, 2 base schedules and 32 season schedules. The seasonal schedules include 8 different positional schedules in 4 different flavours which represent 4 different levels of player development.

The reason for so many schedules is that I have 8 different positional types that I employ with my team and I categorise players into 4 basic levels of player development. A young centre-back, for example, has very different training requirements to a veteran centre-back, hence I needed to create separate schedules.

The pre-season schedules are split into 3 schedules, for GKs, defensive players and attacking players. Each schedule has a slightly different emphasis but they basically crank up aerobic, strength and tactical training to prepare players for the coming season. Players only need to remain on these schedules until they have hit peak fitness, to be honest I usually leave players on it until about a week or 2 before the first competitive game – most players should be at peak fitness by then and I want to make sure that players away on international duty still get a chance to have a few weeks of specific pre-season fitness. The pre-season schedules slightly favour strength over aerobic as heightened strength training seems to help them gain peak fitness quicker and also seems to stave off ‘niggling’ injuries during the season (no training schedule will stop impact injuries like broken legs and you’re bound to get a few injuries but I find that those small 4-5 day injuries are kept to a minimum when using a decent pre-season routine).

How To Use The Schedules

Having created all of the schedules (I’ll explain how I did that a bit later – or just download my schedules) they are relatively quick and easy to use.

When the players return from their off-season put them all into the pre-season schedules. Some players, such as all-round midfielders will be hard to quantify as either defensive or attacking but the schedules are almost identical so it doesn’t matter too much anyway. I generally give players about 2 weeks of solid training before the first pre-season game. I’ll then try and make sure that every player in the squad gets at least about 270 minutes of football (that’s 3 games), preferably with at least 1 whole game in there. Players who have been on international games don’t generally require match practice, I’ll stick them on the schedule but they won’t play many games (nor should they, jadedness – a hidden attribute - can kill a players’ season).

About a week or 2 before the first competitive game hopefully every member of your squad has gained peak fitness (any players who had an injury will be slightly behind, you might want to keep them on the schedule for a little longer but I’d definitely switch to a seasonal schedule within a week or 2 of the season beginning and keep a close eye on their amount of game time). Now it’s time to work out which schedule to put them on. I’ll go through each positional schedule a little later but the key decision to make is the level of development the player is at.

Youth – All the schedules are full-time schedules but the youth ones are targeted at those who have just turned professional. They are heavy schedules that emphasise physical training. Most youth at my club play U18 and Reserve matches so it’s fairly strenuous being a young player at my club, if they don’t make it through this development phase with loads of green arrows then they’ll be shown the door. Baptism by fire my young chums.

Developing – Players stay on the youth schedules until they are too old for my U18s. At this point 99% of players will go on loan so the Developing schedule is really aimed at players who will be fighting to get into the first team but might only end up with a handful of appearances. As they will be playing less games these schedules are very heavy. These schedules start to really emphasise the tactical aspect of play to make sure that players are also developing their minds ready for 1^st team football (their physical attributes should be at a sufficient level by now to ensure they can physically handle first team games, if not they'll probably get another year or 2 of Youth schedule).

1^st Team – Players on this schedule should be playing the bulk of the 1^st team games at the club and need to maintain their fitness levels so these schedules are slightly lighter and more well-rounded. Players in this category should be pretty well developed in all areas so these schedules see a more gentle shaping process to ensure that players are well maintained.

Veteran – The main objective here is to stem the ravages of age on the physical attributes of a player whilst hopefully redistributing any physical loss to mental gains. Any player who is just starting to suffer with age should be placed here.

These stages of development are not based upon age. I’ve had players sign a contract at 17 and head straight for the first team so they get a Developing schedule whereas I’ve had players who have needed intensive tutoring so they’ve stayed at the club on Youth schedules until they’ve hit 20 and then gone on loan. Similarly I’ve had players with lower natural fitness requiring a Veteran schedule at 30 whereas others haven’t felt the negative effects of age until 32. The definition of where a player is in their career is subjective but don’t worry too much, you can’t really break a player with these training schedules so if you get it wrong you’ll just end up with a slightly different player, the key to them gaining attributes points is playing games anyway.

Once you’ve selected a schedule you just need to leave it. By all means check on it every month or so just to make sure you’ve got green arrows in the right places and to make sure that you’ve made the correct call. Re-assess during the off season and just leave them to it. It’s not the most efficient method but it’s quick and it’s easy and it works.

Other Crucial Aspects Of Development

There are a few golden rules to abide by when developing players.

1) Players develop best when playing games. If they are too old for the U18s but not yet good enough for your 1^st team then get them out on loan.

2) Only send players on loan when they have the personality for it.

3) Tutoring, tutoring, tutoring. This is absolutely crucial.

4) If you're keeping a player at your club for tutoring or some other reason but they aren't getting many first team games then keep them match fit - arrange Reserves friendlies if you have to. Not having a bloated squad is crucial for this very reason (see point 6).

5) Happy players develop faster. Generally, enough games at an appropriate level will keep players happy but a new contract or good relationships will help.

6) Not every player will make it. Some players just don’t develop fast enough, or suffer badly with injuries or can’t overcome inherent weaknesses in their attribute distribution. These players need to be sold - they are just taking away game time from other prospects. Don’t keep a bloated squad. Give them game time in pre-season and move them on or sell them after a loan spell where they’ve played.

The Positional Schedules

GK: Pretty standard schedules really. Get your keepers on them.

FB: My FB’s are usually attacking in nature so these schedules give them a fair amount of ball control and attacking training and not too much defensive work. Aerobic is favoured over strength.

CB: My CB’s need to be solid brutes so strength, tactical and defensive training is favoured. As with all my schedules there is still a healthy amount of ball control.

DM: My DM’s need to be quick and very good mentally so tactical and physical training is emphasised. Sometimes my more creative CB’s will be placed here to increase their mental attributes for a season or so.

MC: I don’t tend to have too many solid box-to-box type midfielders who are equally happy attacking or defending but these schedules are fairly balanced to create a steady gain across the attributes. They slightly favour the attacking category to try and boost passing and creativity.

AMC: My attack-minded midfielders and playmakers need to be good on the ball so ball control, tactical and attacking is emphasised. Creative wingers are placed here as well.

IF: This schedule is for my inside forwards who are basically strikers on the wing, hence, out-and-out striker-types (i.e. poacher-type players) will also be placed on these schedules. Aerobic and shooting are the emphasis here.

TGM: This is for target-men or creative forwards. I generally play lone striker formations at the moment so I like my frontmen to be well rounded players who are strong enough to play by themselves whilst creative enough to play with others but still be goal-scorers. Tactical, attacking and shooting are the big areas here.

Conclusion

Whilst training is only one slice of player development it seems to be an area that a lot of FM players are afraid of. I’ll explain my method for creating schedules in a subsequent post as well as go through some of the players I’ve developed using this method. Devising personal schedules is definitely more effective than this method but requires a lot of time, patience and effort, in contrast, these schedules are easy to use but you’ll have to accept that you’ll get the odd attribute gain in a place you might not necessarily want it. This method is fairly simple, the bit that takes time is devising the schedules in the first place but so long as you’re happy with my definition of each type of player you can just download and get playing with them.

As I said at the start there's nothing ground-breakingly new here but it is a simple enough method to follow that is quick.

Download link (original)

Additional Downloads

Furious Training v2 (Added Winger schedules - renamed schedules - no other changes)

Striker Schedules (Poacher & Adv.For additional schedules)

Links To Relevant Articles

Mantralux FM2011 Training Masterclass

SFraser A Guide To Developing Youngsters

SFraser Setting Up Your Backroom Staff

[furiousuk]

Creating Schedules

This is the most time-consuming and most daunting aspect of the whole process but, once done, will rarely have to be revisited. In order to make creation easier I used a logical system based on the number of attributes in each category. This is an old idea and is based around the assumption that a series of complex ratios were necessary for balancing a schedule. Very briefly it stated that if there were 5 attributes in one category and 3 in another then for equal gain the number of clicks would have to be in the ratio 5:3 (e.g. 15 clicks on one slider against 9 on the other). If you wanted to emphasise a category then you’d need to ensure that the first category has more than the ratio. Sound complicated? It is really and it’s since been proven that it's not true either due to different attributes having different learning curves - attributes won't necessarily increase at the same rate depending both on the current value of the attribute and what kind of attribute it is.

Ok, technical bit over with. These schedules are based on ratios but don’t worry, the whole system is supposed to be simple and easy so I don’t absolutely strictly adhere to the ratios. Every schedule that is created comes from a base schedule:

The numbers represent the number of clicks on the sliders which correspond to the number of attributes in each category (I believe this might have changed for FM12, the sticky by Mantralux will explain in more detail but it’s not absolutely crucial anyway).

In order to create a new schedule I’d decide on what I want to emphasise and then increase the slider by the corresponding number of clicks. For example, my Young Centre-back schedule focuses on strength so the Strength category goes to 20 (5 x 4), whilst Aerobic is set to 15 (3 x 5). Tactics and Ball Control are increased by 1 level to 10 clicks each, whilst Defending was increased by 3 levels to 12 and Attacking & Shooting are kept low on 1 level (3 clicks). The resulting schedule looks like this:

I use the switch between Heavy and Medium as a gauge to how hard a schedule can be, I mostly favour professional determined types so they can all handle around the Heavy mark and I’ve NEVER had a whinger, even those youngsters with poor(ish) personalities. I suspect that those that would whinge are put off by tutoring and the fact I’m now a high rep manager. Give them a stern talking to, if they don’t buck up their ideas (and quickly) then get rid of them, if they aren’t already of a sufficient quality to challenge for a first team spot they’re unlikely to improve quick enough to be much use so try and cash in as soon as you can and stop any ill feeling spreading.

If you wanted to change the overall workload then just change away. A few clicks harder or lighter won’t make a massive difference to the overall effectiveness of the schedule but might keep a less disciplined squad happier which will make a difference. The ratio system is just a basis to give some logic to the system, half-jumps will still work of course. It’s still worth watching any general trends over a number of months just to make sure you’ve got things as you’re expecting.

My schedules are all fairly heavy on tactical training as this category contains the prime attributes anticipation and decisions which are well worth valuing in every player.

These schedules are generic, meaning that the only player attributes they take into consideration are my ideas of the ideal player for each position. If you had a young DM with fantastic technique and passing who you want to train up as a playmaker then the MC or AMC schedules might suit them better. In a similar manner I have a creative young striker on the AMC schedules because they suit his attributes better.

[furiousuk]

The Furious Way In Action

A set of schedules are only as good as the results I guess so here are a few different development stories from my save (the schedules are developed in-situ but they have been pretty stable for the last few in-game years, as has the level of facilities and coaching). These aren’t necessarily the best examples of progress I’ve got but they show some realistic examples of how the schedules work during the progression of a save for different players.

The progress of this sparkling young chap has been just about perfect. The increases shown here are over 2 whole seasons, from the age of 18-20 and he used the Inside Forward Developing schedule. The first season used a mixture of quickness, technique & finishing focus training whilst the 2^nd season saw no individual focus set. When he joined at 18 I had no suitable tutor that could have added to his personality which is the only negative part of his development.

He was introduced slowly into the first team but quickly started scoring goals (I use a lone striker formation which is tough on a youngster but he had the attributes and personality for it). The 2^nd season saw him bang home more than 40 goals and his progression just went through the roof. Even though he still has potential stars to fulfil he’ll go on the 1^st team schedule next year as his physical attributes don’t need any more encouraging so his remaining potential would be best driven into mental and a bit of technical improvements.

The increases for this guy are over 3 seasons, from the ages of 21-24. He joined a year or 2 previous to that and made good increases very early on although he was pretty much first choice DM almost right away. He has been on the DM 1st Team Schedule for the last 3 seasons.

The biggest problem he had to overcome was a 6 month injury at the age of 21 (hence a loss to stamina). I was worried it would ruin him as he is a superb covering DM who needs pace but he recovered well and is starting to turn into a half-decent playmaker as well (although his technique and his PPM’s will always hamper him in that regard). He has made good progress in just about all the right areas although I would have liked a bit of increase in tackling and decisions.

To show that the schedules work on slightly older players this shot shows progress from the last 3 seasons, during the ages of 23-26. When he joined he had been sat on the bench behind Pastore at Palermo so missed a huge chunk of development during the crucial 18-21 age range (he played almost no games during this period but played well in the handful he did make?!?). Despite this he had excellent attributes in all the right areas for a playmaker.

The most pleasing aspect here is the number of high attribute increases as well as the strength increase which means he can just about handle a job at MC. His strength increase required individual focus for a year, I also upped his positioning using focus training before realising it didn’t have any affect with the ball. We all make mistakes.

Saving the best for last is the last 3 seasons development over the ages of 18-20 (he’s very nearly 20 in the SS). The development of this guy has been, quite simply, spectacular. Make no bones about it he was an incredible player at 16 when I signed him (and not cheap either) but a little lacking in physicals. I needn’t of worried.

His development began with 2 seasons of successful tutoring which I think has contributed to his impressive mental gains at that age (he played only a few first team games but was involved in 2 U18 Cup wins). Last season he played a full season on loan to Liverpool where he was quickly first choice and his physicals flourished. He will be back with me this year and will be placed on the CB Developing schedule and positioning focus (although I play a man-marking scheme which he is already perfect for). He will also gain one last bout of tutoring to just finish his character.

Hopefully this short summary of the development cycle of 4 players will also give some insight into which development level to place a player.

[furiousuk]

Backroom Staff

I wasn’t intending to post a section on staff here as it doesn’t cover much new ground at all but I felt that the post didn’t quite seem rounded without at least a mention of how to structure your backroom staff. The benefits of a well selected staff seem to be growing with each iteration of FM but the effect of staff on development is astounding.

My long save on FM09 had a number of well developed talents but they took their time over developing. I’ve always valued the importance of good backroom staff but went to just maximise star rating and gave no attention to attributes such as motivation and man management. During my FM11 save I encountered a certain Mr Fraser who wrote a number of good things about how to structure your backroom staff. I won’t reiterate everything that he has written before but, suffice to say, his methods work. I’ll briefly show you my backroom staff setup and make a few observations:

This is the staffing set-up I have been developing as my club has risen in stature, it’s not quite perfect yet by any means but it’s a fairly well balanced set of people who each have a distinct job to do (apart from David Artell, he works only with the youth now that Puyol has joined). The orange jobs show my ‘work-horse’ coaches with 4.5-5 star rating in their respective categories. The yellow are the GK coaches whilst the green are for conditioning. The pinks are the most interesting – I’ll elaborate for those who haven’t seen the SFraser thread (link at the top).

Edgar Davids is kept only for his knowledge of Holland. My scouts are all on roaming so they don’t pick up much knowledge of a country. Edgar isn’t a great coach but I figure a high-rep player round the club can’t do any harm even though I don’t need him to pad out the odd session. Dodd is the same, I don’t really need him to pad out 1^st team sessions but he’s been at the club forever and I don’t have the heart to get rid of him yet – besides I’ve put him to more use with the youth.

The other pinks are even more interesting (if you like that sort of thing!):

My AssMan is a useful character who is also an excellent coach (which was crucial when I couldn’t sign 1000 coaches). His high determination typifies the squad whilst he is a good all-rounder – his tactical knowledge is sound enough, his motivating knowledge is equally good (although extremely aggressive!) and he can just about judge a player. He is slightly better with the youth (his Working With Youngsters is higher than his Man Management) but that isn’t a problem as I have a predominantly young(ish) squad.

Al Stewart is the 1^st Team Motivator. He isn’t a great coach (his star rating isn’t fantastic) but he works well with other coaches. He has awesome motivating skills, great mental skills and his man management and working with youth are pretty good. A little more determination and he’d be perfect but, as it is, he’s a great addition to any coaching session.

Dannie Bulman is the 1^st Team Psychologist. His role is to make sure everyone is happy. As the Star coaches ‘beast’ the boys this guy mentally picks them back up. He does this with his awesome mental and man management skills. He used to be better but his lack of discipline has meant that he has regressed as a coach. He was a player for me at my previous club which I feel is always a nice nostalgic touch (it has some value in-game, but not much) but he’ll have to be replaced as he’s only going to get worse – I could use him as the youth psychologist but I already have this guy managing my youth:

This guy is my Youth Psychologist although he’s also taken over managing the youth side this year as 2 of my other youth coaches assigned to be manager were pinched and it wasn’t worth me upping their salary to keep them. This guy is a rubbish man manager but it doesn’t matter – he’s only interested in the Yoof!

For completeness, here is a break-down of the staff that work with my youth:

A similar story to the 1^st team with each category having a star work-horse and a motivator and a psychologist who work with everybody (plus they also have the versatile AssMan looking on). The star rating for the youth setup isn’t quite as high but that is because most of the coaches here are still developing, just like the young charges they work with. As more of my players retire the best will end up here while Di Vaio & Puyol will move to focus solely on the 1^st team. It’s a useful system for developing a club culture of old boys – even if they don’t stay for long they may well be valuable for you at other clubs (either through loan players or through the skulduggery that is the transfer business).

These guys actually don’t do much work as my youth team are either on a full-time contract or awaiting one on their 17^th birthday. I spend a lot of time hand-picking my U18’s and don’t want them wasting development time by only training for some of the day so very very few will remain on a youth contract for long.

The backroom staff are extremely important in developing a harmonious (and productive) club, neglect them and you’ll never see truly astounding levels of player development. Remember – developing a player well might mean he never sees your first team, but if he’s bagged you a healthy profit he’s been a useful cog in the machine of success!

[Cleon]

Ahh an excellent post mate well done

I'd also like to add match fit is key to player development, any player who is not match fit cannot improve via training. Many people overlook this (i don't mean you though)

[furiousuk]

Great point, I figured I'd miss a few bits and bobs so I'll add that the small list I've included, thanks!

[Marcelo]

Veteran – The main objective here is to stem the ravages of age on the physical attributes of a player whilst hopefully redistributing any physical loss to mental gains. Any player who is just starting to suffer with age should be placed here.

Great post! I'm curious if you have had any success in reducing the decline in physical attributes of veteran players with these schedules?

[furiousuk]

Great post! I'm curious if you have had any success in reducing the decline in physical attributes of veteran players with these schedules?

Pretty good but I think it has a lot to do with Natural Fitness and Determination as much as the training schedule. Steven Taylor, who has 12 for Natural Fitness lost his pace at just past 30, his excellent mentals made up for it as he declined but I couldn't stop his acceleration, agility & pace dropping below the standard I required.

On the other hand, Christophe Berra, with 18 NF and 20 Determination is still just about capable of doing a job in the Prem at 35 and actually saw an increase in his pace when he was put on to the veteran schedule at about the age of 30-31. Hulk, with 20 NF and 16 Det, is still packing strong physical stats at the age of 34. I expect his decline to increase but I will probably get most of the season out of him as a first choice and should even extend his playing usefulness for next season. Danny Simpson is 33 (15 NF, 14 Det) and his physical stats are only very very slowly declining.

All of the players have gained some mental attributes as you would expect. To be honest Simpson and Berra played only a handful of games between them last season so I expected their physicals to plummet but was quite surprised. I think they are both pretty professional which helps too.

[Romanista1994]

Nice write-up furious.

The way you've built your schedules is pretty similar to what I did during the past year on FM10, though I preferred to focus more on mental attributes and made individual schedules for all outfield players. Lately, however I've been experimenting with some more extreme schedules to test the limits of attribute redistribution. I recently made a specific schedule for a young midfielder who had high Pace and Accelleration(which I don't require for my defensive minded midfielders) and only average mental and technical attributes. The schedule had zero Aerobic training and maximum Tactics, Ball Control and Attacking and medium for the rest.

Immediately after putting him on the schedule his physical development stalled (though after the short time and due to his age the attributes haven't yet started to decline) and the attributes in the three trained categories immediately got a boost.

So I'm wondering would you use more extreme versions of your schedules to get specific players to fit or become more efficient in a role?

[furiousuk]

I made tentative attempts at this quite a while ago http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/266716-Intensive-Training-to-boost-Youngsters

It's not a particularly well written thread but it just shows my attempt to quickly boost an attribute by matching intensive training with individual training focus. But my schedules didn't see anywhere near enough difference between the intensive category and other categories so I didn't see any results like yours. I also didn't use the schedules for very long, luckily I've learnt a lot since then.

I'm actually starting to move away from these generic schedules for the very reason you're suggesting - I want to shape players based on their attributes, not necessarily on the generic ideal for that player. I'm slowly introducing personal schedules for those players who really need specific shaping and who I really think will make superb players. But this takes time. I'd love to spend more time really squeezing each bit of potential from players but...

I think if you really have the inclination, patience and time to really develop players fully then you have to design individual, extreme schedules. Certainly the ones I have tried are based on the schedules here but they require regular upkeep.

These schedules won't normally produce the sort of results that others have posted (such as SFraser) but they get pretty close with much less effort.

[Cleon]

I've just had a look in game at the schedules and the MC 1st team one seems really heavy (the work load) do you get many complaints?

[furiousuk]

The 2 guys I've had on the schedule for a couple of seasons are Resilient/Evasive and Resolute/Level-Headed so they both have fairly good personalities and they haven't complained. The workload is only 1 into heavy which I normally find is ok, occasionally I think that youngsters will complain but I haven't had a complaint from anybody for several in-game years. My personal manager rep has risen considerably during this time although I have also hand-picked a squad in this time paying careful attention to personality so I'm reasonably confident that all of my players have good personalities (they certainly have decent determination). In fact now you mention it, it's a little odd that I haven't had ANY complaints since the early days of taking over Southampton (7-8 years ago), where I took over from a lower league side so my rep was presumably pretty low at that time. Even when I'd just taken over only a few players complained when I used this workload level (the schedules have considerably changed since then but the workload is comparable).

I wonder how much of an influence manager rep has on how willing a player is to make a complaint. I'm fairly strict on the players but not overly so. It's logical but I haven't read any info on the influence of manager rep so I've never paid much attention to it, might be a factor though.

[matty2323]

really good thread Furious. I've been playing FM so years now, and never once have i had the patience to sit down and study the training side of the game! People like yourself that put in all this hard work make life so much easier for me! cheers pal, great schedules!

[phnompenhandy]

Looks a great set of schedules - I installed and set them up last night. Will keep you posted, although I'm a plodding micro-manager, typically taking a real-time month to do a season.

There appears to be one GK schedule light (GK developing).

Your playing style matches mine, especially re. full backs/wingbacks. However, in my pre-season friendlies I've conceded a lot of goals through balls being played down the flanks behind my hopeless full backs, so I wonder if a separate schedule focusing more on fullback defending might be useful.

[furiousuk]

Looks a great set of schedules - I installed and set them up last night. Will keep you posted, although I'm a plodding micro-manager, typically taking a real-time month to do a season.

I'm the same, this save began when 11.3 was released (is that April??) and I'm only just venturing into season 11. I find that now I've got a top side seasons really are taking a long time as I take more time over player development and watching games more carefully.

There appears to be one GK schedule light (GK developing).

Your playing style matches mine, especially re. full backs/wingbacks. However, in my pre-season friendlies I've conceded a lot of goals through balls being played down the flanks behind my hopeless full backs, so I wonder if a separate schedule focusing more on fullback defending might be useful.

Agreed, I'm not sure why the extra GK was omitted when I made them, I rarely need a developing one as any GK at that level of development should be on loan, if they aren't for some reason then I'll keep them on the young schedule. I think I'll add one to the download link as it should be there really, thanks for the heads up!

I stick my more defensive FB's on the CB schedule (they are usually competent CBs as well) and keep an eye on them to make sure their ball-playing attributes don't drop. It's a great point though that every managers requirements will differ.

A glaring omission from the set is a dedicated winger schedule as I don't really use them, I think I'll add some for completeness but with a caveat that I have no experience of how well they work (yet). I'll hopefully add some examples today of how well the schedules (and development method) have worked for me to show how the schedules help to shape a player.

I've just had a look in game at the schedules and the MC 1st team one seems really heavy (the work load) do you get many complaints?

Further to my earlier response I have noticed that 1 of the players on the heavier MC schedule actually often takes slightly longer to regain peak condition, I attributed this to being just a characteristic of the player (perhaps due to hidden stats) but it might well be the cumulative effect of training slightly harder than his team-mates. I'll amend, probably by lowering the shooting category by a level (3 notches).

[phnompenhandy]

Cheers furious - yeh I'm using wingers for the first time in a couple of years too, so I could do with those schedules.

So if you put up extra schedules, when I install them will I have to reassign all my players, or will they add to the ones I've already got running?

[furiousuk]

I'll add an additional download. I think you can just import them then and they won't affect the setup you're already using. Hopefully will be done by tonight!

[mantralux]

Good work on the schedules, but I just want to say one thing:

"meaning that for every attribute gained in the Ball Control category there is less chance of it being flair"

This isn't true, as every attribute in a training category has an equal chance of improving (if they have the same value). So if your player has Flair and Dribbling both at 15, they have an equal chance of improving when training the Ball Control category - one isn't preferred over another.

[NakS]

Actually, I recall Riz Remes saying (I am looking for that message atm) that flair improvement is somehow tied to technical abilities improvement because in itself it's a tendency attribute, don't ask me how I don't know.

So, though I agree with you Mantralux about the "equal chance of improving" thing, I do think there is some exception and that's what Furiousk is saying about flair. And honestly, I have always wondered why such an attribute is trainable, obviously determination, bravery and agression are not trainable and they are tendency attributes as well...

Good work from both of you by the way

Edit: Found the message

Like I've said before, Flair attribute is defined in the very core of the game as a tendency, which means we cannot tie it to CA or PA or other attributes that are relative to CA. However we did make changes in the last patch to allow flair to develop along with some technical attributes, so very skillful players would become more likely to try spectacular moves as they gain more ability and confidence.

[furiousuk]

This isn't true, as every attribute in a training category has an equal chance of improving (if they have the same value). So if your player has Flair and Dribbling both at 15, they have an equal chance of improving when training the Ball Control category - one isn't preferred over another.

This was my original understanding too and I've always found that flair develops just fine, I think I must of read similar things to NakS hence why I put flair as the example. Natural Fitness is in the strength category but rarely develops either. I've updated the OP to remove any ambiguity. My basis for the number of base clicks for each category is based on your FM2011 article on training, I will also update the OP with a link as it's clearly relevant here.

Cheers furious - yeh I'm using wingers for the first time in a couple of years too, so I could do with those schedules.

So if you put up extra schedules, when I install them will I have to reassign all my players, or will they add to the ones I've already got running?

I've also updated the download link to include a GK Developing schedule in the original schedules and included another .tsh with 4 Winger schedules. I've used the same method to devise them and they favour Aerobic, Attacking and Ball Control to hopefully create quick, scampering wingers. They are somewhere between the Inside Forward schedules and the AMC schedules. I haven't tested them but in theory they sound work well for most players (the workload for each development level is comparable with the other schedules).

I've also lightened the workload for 1st Team MCs.

[mantralux]

This was my original understanding too and I've always found that flair develops just fine, I think I must of read similar things to NakS hence why I put flair as the example. Natural Fitness is in the strength category but rarely develops either.

I think the reason Flair and Natural Fitness develop slower is because different attributes have different learning curves, so even if they have an equal chance of increasing, they won't necessarily increase at the same rate. Which means that if you train a category, Ball Control for example, all attributes will increase, but some will increase faster than others - both depending on the current value of the attribute, and what kind of attribute it is.

[furiousuk]

I think the reason Flair and Natural Fitness develop slower is because different attributes have different learning curves, so even if they have an equal chance of increasing, they won't necessarily increase at the same rate. Which means that if you train a category, Ball Control for example, all attributes will increase, but some will increase faster than others - both depending on the current value of the attribute, and what kind of attribute it is.

Brilliant explanation - that was exactly what I was trying to say!!! If you don't mind I'll update the OP almost word for word.

[mantralux]

Brilliant explanation - that was exactly what I was trying to say!!! If you don't mind I'll update the OP almost word for word.

No worries. =)

[dribbler]

thanks for doing this furious...big time saver

[furiousuk]

I've added some examples of progress and of how I have used the schedule set for a couple of different players (including some mistakes). I didn't realise quite how impressive the improvements to some players are but it's the shaping that is important when deciding how useful a schedule is. It should be noted that all the players in the examples had a high potential star rating. Whilst the schedules obviously still work for lesser ability players it should always be remembered that you can't polish a turd. The key to seeing really good development is, of course, getting players with plenty of growing room!

[yonko]

I would like to ask at what level should Match Preparation be?

I would assume that in the beginning it should be on very high, which means that players would devote only 50% to the actual training that we set up. When is it best to start dropping the level of Match Prep so players devote more time, i.e. % to training and therefore develop their attributes? And what is the recommended minimal level for Match Prep to use throughout a season?

If we keep a very low level of Match Prep then that is 10%. Then another 10% goes for individual training focus (on FM12 we can now adjust that between 5-15%) and if we want a player to learn/unlearn a PPM then that is another 10%. If we add it all up we have 70% left for training. Is the first notch of "high" workload really that high to make players unhappy? It is only 70% of that high workload......

Furthermore, what is the recommendation for schedules for regular 1st team players who do not need their attribute developed or they can't develop them further (for example, I'm playing as Barca and Xavi/Iniesta/Messi do not need the specific attributes for their positions/roles developed further)? How much should these players' schedules be focused on tactics, attacking, ball control, etc.? Keep in mind they play regularly, specifically Messi who plays in every game.

According to your theory for base schedule for outfield players, in FM12 is:

Strength = 5 (workrate, jumping, natural fitness, stamina, strength)

Aerobics = 4 (acceleration, agility, balance, pace)

Tactics = 5 (anticipation, composure, concentration, decisions, teamwork)

Ball Control = 5 (dribbling, first touch, heading, technique, flair)

Defending = 3 (marking, tackling, positioning)

Attacking = 4 (passing, creativity, crossing, off the ball)

Shooting = 2 (finishing, long shots)

[dribbler]

I posted this in Mantralux's thread but I thought I'd put it here as well because nobody's replied and I'm interested in the answer (obviously)

I found this a very interesting section and it's just starting to sink in how important it may be:

MANTRALUX SAYS:

"Training Levels (Advanced)

An often overlooked panel is Training Levels, located in Player Profile – Training Levels (the far right tab at the top). The reason this panel is useful is because it tells you how high your training score is in a specific training category – the bars indicate how well a category is trained, based on player happiness, fitness, hidden attributes, current attribute levels, training facilities, etc.

Contrary to popular belief, the bars do not tell you how hard the player is training – they aren’t telling you if the player is in the risk zone for injuries or unhappiness.

If a bar is low, it tells you that either a) the workload slider for that category isn’t high enough to make an impact, or b) the player already has very high attribute values in the category, making it less likely that his attributes will increase, or c) the player has ‘run out’ of current ability points, so there is nothing left to take from to increase attributes.

If a bar is high, it means this category has a high chance of improvement – calculated by current attribute values, category workload, and so on. You should aim to have as high bars as possible in the categories you want to train, but there is no penalty for low bars – that just means that the chance of improvement in the affected attributes is small.

This info means that we can customise training schedules solely based on this information. With access to a visual indication of our training score, we can control the height of the bars by increasing or decreasing the workload in the player’s current training schedule. For example, if you only need a player to increase his Tackling and Pace attributes and don’t care about the rest, you could use the Training Level bars as a guide to scale away all unnecessary training."

ME AGAIN:

So it's just occurred to me that if you have a player with potential to improve, the left-hand bar of the graph which shows the overall training level is critical...assuming your player is match fit is it reasonable to say that if this bar isn't high then your training is wrong somehow? In other words if this bar isn't high you're putting training time into areas that won't improve much or into areas that aren't particularly important for his position.

[dribbler]

Sorry to moan but it would help a lot if you'd use the f-word a bit more...I mean label your schedules furious this and furious that...they're all mixed up with mine now :confused:

Why do you train strength harder for developing wingers than for youth wingers? You seem to be prioritising aerobic over strength when they're young and then switching emphasis when they're older, but I'd have thought stamina was a major priority so they can train harder and play matches.

I also worry that you're training youth players much too hard. Obviously this comment only applies if they have low stamina but surely you'll just exhaust them and injure them?

[jimbobBRFC]

very good thread, will give these a try later on tonight, need to sort my training out and never really delved into it before so these will be a great help.

[mantralux]

I would like to ask at what level should Match Preparation be?

As soon as your players are fully familiar with your tactics, you can lower match prep to the second lowest notch without getting a penalty in familiarity levels. If you keep it at the lowest notch, the familiarity bars will start decreasing.

[yonko]

As soon as your players are fully familiar with your tactics, you can lower match prep to the second lowest notch without getting a penalty in familiarity levels. If you keep it at the lowest notch, the familiarity bars will start decreasing.

The levels are:

None

Very Low = 10%

Low = 20%

Average = 30%

High = 40%

Very High = 50%

Are you saying we should keep Match Prep on "Low" or "Very Low"? In other words, should Match Prep be at 20% or 10% of workload?

[Marcelo]

The levels are:

Are you saying we should keep Match Prep on "Low" or "Very Low"? In other words, should Match Prep be at 20% or 10% of workload?

Very low is enough to keep the "fluid" status.

[mantralux]

The levels are:

None

Very Low = 10%

Low = 20%

Average = 30%

High = 40%

Very High = 50%

Are you saying we should keep Match Prep on "Low" or "Very Low"? In other words, should Match Prep be at 20% or 10% of workload?

As Marcelo says, Very Low is enough to not get a penalty in the familiarity levels.

[axelkoch28]

Great Work, Many thanks for this going to give it a shot

[furiousuk]

Sorry to moan but it would help a lot if you'd use the f-word a bit more...I mean label your schedules furious this and furious that...they're all mixed up with mine now :confused:

Yeah, sorry about that, a shocking over-sight. I'll try and amend!

Why do you train strength harder for developing wingers than for youth wingers? You seem to be prioritising aerobic over strength when they're young and then switching emphasis when they're older, but I'd have thought stamina was a major priority so they can train harder and play matches.

It's just a matter of getting the overall balance right. The slightly less hard Aerobic training left room for it and it's in preparation for the rest of their careers. Stamina isn't a major preference for me for a wide player - incredibly useful yes, but my wide players don't tend to run much further than the other players anyway so I prioritise in other areas. It's a matter of preference really. My MC's do most running in my 451/433 tactic, often averaging over 12km in a game, in contrast my FBs are normally in the 10-11km range whilst my wide players are between 11-12 (so roughly the same).

I also worry that you're training youth players much too hard. Obviously this comment only applies if they have low stamina but surely you'll just exhaust them and injure them?

I was very worried about this, especially considering my youth players will play the majority of reserve games so they'll frequently exceed 50 games, but it doesn't seem to happen. My U18 squad is generally small, generally around 13-18 players, to make sure they all get games and it's rare I'll see a non-real player standing in (apart from international call-ups - which have ruined a number of U18 cup runs ). I've added a post at the top which runs through my backroom staff. I have an excellent staff and excellent physios - this might help keep injuries at bay (and hasten recovery times).

very good thread, will give these a try later on tonight, need to sort my training out and never really delved into it before so these will be a great help.

Great Work, Many thanks for this going to give it a shot

Cheers.

I've added an update to the original post which runs through my backroom staff setup. Again, there is nothing particularly new here but I felt a mention to the backroom setup was necessary given it's importance to the development of players.

[Lashley]

fm12 should be here tomorrow, will deffo use this

[cundyno1]

Very anal of me to not know this but where do i add this training schedule? Downloaded it and searched the forum but cant find where to put it?? Can someone help??

[catennacio]

Interesting thread indeed.. however when looking at the screenshot, after all these years playing FM, I don't think it's possible for an attribute to increase by 2 units at a period of time when showing the RECENT attribute change. For 2 units (i.e. 10 to 12), you need at least 6 month to have it changed...

Just my 2 cents..

[phnompenhandy]

In your mydocs/SI/FM12 folder you have to make a new folder and name it 'schedules'. Pop it in there.

[furiousuk]

Interesting thread indeed.. however when looking at the screenshot, after all these years playing FM, I don't think it's possible for an attribute to increase by 2 units at a period of time when showing the RECENT attribute change. For 2 units (i.e. 10 to 12), you need at least 6 month to have it changed...

Just my 2 cents..

Normally I'd be annoyed at someone questioning my integrity but I'm going to take it as a compliment that my photoshopping is better than I thought!

The screenshots show increases over a 2/3 year period. My schedules aren't anywhere near extreme enough to get much more than a point per year in any one category but their generality means that there is a fairly well rounded emphasised increase. I've seen a 0.4 increase in the graph over a month so you could, in theory, gain 2 points in 5 months, possibly more if you're also losing from other attributes OR if the increase was from high 10 to low 12 then it's potentially only a 1.2 increase (due to rounding from 10.4 (10) to 11.6 (12)) so 3 months is possible. Anyway, that isn't what's happening in the screenies, they're just photoshopped to show attributes from 2/3 years ago alongside current ones - all the little arrows are cut and pasted on, if you look closely none of them line up properly due to irresponsible use of the guide layer!

[dribbler]

It's just a matter of getting the overall balance right. The slightly less hard Aerobic training left room for it and it's in preparation for the rest of their careers. Stamina isn't a major preference for me for a wide player - incredibly useful yes, but my wide players don't tend to run much further than the other players anyway so I prioritise in other areas. It's a matter of preference really. My MC's do most running in my 451/433 tactic, often averaging over 12km in a game, in contrast my FBs are normally in the 10-11km range whilst my wide players are between 11-12 (so roughly the same).

but you train them harder on aerobic on the youth schedule and then you switch emphasis on the developing schedule training strength harder than aerobic...if you just decided to train aerobic harder then fine, fair enough, your choice etc...it's the decision to concentrate on the aerobic and then switching to concentrate more on strength that I found illogical...just wondered if it was on purpose or an accident?

[furiousuk]

Strange, the my schedules look like this for the winger:

Each one has an emphasis on aerobic. The youth one more so than the developing but they all regard aerobic more highly than strength.

[mantralux]

Strange, the my schedules look like this for the winger:

OT: Are you still using FM2011, or did you find a FM2011 Dark skin that works for FM2012?

[furiousuk]

OT: Are you still using FM2011, or did you find a FM2011 Dark skin that works for FM2012?

It's FM11. I still can't quite put down my FM11 save.

[catennacio]

Apologies if my post makes you upset. I didn't question your integrity it was just a misunderstanding. If you said this is the improvement over 2-3 years then it makes sense a lot. Again, sorry if it makes you upset. I downloaded and used your schedules and they turn out to be good ones. Thanks

Normally I'd be annoyed at someone questioning my integrity but I'm going to take it as a compliment that my photoshopping is better than I thought!

The screenshots show increases over a 2/3 year period. My schedules aren't anywhere near extreme enough to get much more than a point per year in any one category but their generality means that there is a fairly well rounded emphasised increase. I've seen a 0.4 increase in the graph over a month so you could, in theory, gain 2 points in 5 months, possibly more if you're also losing from other attributes OR if the increase was from high 10 to low 12 then it's potentially only a 1.2 increase (due to rounding from 10.4 (10) to 11.6 (12)) so 3 months is possible. Anyway, that isn't what's happening in the screenies, they're just photoshopped to show attributes from 2/3 years ago alongside current ones - all the little arrows are cut and pasted on, if you look closely none of them line up properly due to irresponsible use of the guide layer!

[furiousuk]

Apologies if my post makes you upset. I didn't question your integrity it was just a misunderstanding. If you said this is the improvement over 2-3 years then it makes sense a lot. Again, sorry if it makes you upset. I downloaded and used your schedules and they turn out to be good ones. Thanks

No worries!

It says beneath each screenshot in the post how long the development period was.

Glad the schedules are working out for you. The winger schedules are new and untested but in theory you should get a shaping for a young-Giggs style winger (i.e quick, crosser, fairly creative).

[dribbler]

Strange, the my schedules look like this for the winger:

Each one has an emphasis on aerobic. The youth one more so than the developing but they all regard aerobic more highly than strength.

Ooops sorry furious...remember I said your schedules were all mixed up with mine...got confused which were which :o

[Aoede]

I noticed there are only 4 youth schedules.

It seems players in the U20 team in Italy can't be placed on full time schedules despite being old enough.

Is there any easy way to convert the "young" schedules into youth schedules?

[phnompenhandy]

I noticed there are only 4 youth schedules.

It seems players in the U20 team in Italy can't be placed on full time schedules despite being old enough.

Is there any easy way to convert the "young" schedules into youth schedules?

Do they have full-time contracts? If they do, you can move them to the first team or reserve squad, put them on full-time training schedules, then move them back to the U20 squad. Works in England anyway.

[furiousuk]

I don't pay too much attention to the youth schedules as my players are generally on them for a short time and as there effectiveness is reduced I prefer a pretty all-round schedule so that any attribute gains are distributed across the whole board.

I think the 4 schedules are GK, CB, MC & Str. This covers the 3 major strata but I don't think there is any significant difference between them to be honest, and probably no significant difference from the default schedules (apart from the very important fact that they are harder). I can see how they would be more useful if you have to wait until 20 years old rather than 17. I don't think there is any way to 'convert' them but if you follow the theory at the top then it should be fairly straight forward to make your own based on what you want (and shouldn't take too long either!).