Ventura116 Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 I'm looking for tactics to Barcelona ... I am looking for a long time Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 krunccrni, I'm having troubles on deciding where I should put Neymar & Eden Hazard. Got the AML & AMC's slots left to fill. I'm thinking of putting Hazard as AMC due to him being a better passer and Neymar as AML due to his better finishing (which he can use when cutting in from the flank). Is my thinking here, correct? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedimanutd Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 with the classic tactic, we cant select our playmaker can we? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bromi88 Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 great tactic useing it for my dortmund side just beat schalke 5-0 in super cup 75% possesion with badeij making 98 pass's out of 107 and lukasz piszczek making 105 out of 111 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneskyride Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 with the classic tactic, we cant select our playmaker can we? you can, just go to Set Pieces, he should be there, than drag and drop your desired Playmaker. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bromi88 Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 has anyone found a striker that can play in this formation barrios just isnt doing it for me what type of player do i need Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwark Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 any update here? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoetermeer Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 After playing with this tactic, I'm even more convinced that this kind of thing doesn't jive well with the ME than I was before. These tiki-taka tactics aimed at maximizing possession are great at just that, but they do not really emulate Barca's style, IMO. 1) Way too much time is spent passing the ball around in your own half. To emulate Barca's high defensive line while on the attack, we use a team setting of 'high defensive line'. But this setting cannot emulate Barca's dropping of defenders deep when their keeper has the ball in order to create space in the midfield. Right now my keeper spends a lot of time unsure where to pass because my defenders are pushing up and space is compacted in the midfield. 2) The ME rewards variety in chance-creation. This tactic (and others) throws out long shots, crosses, even crossing corners -- basically everything aerial, as well as direct counter-attack style ball movement. But the ME will not allow you to score much when you are slowly building up your attack in the opponent's half, compacting space and giving your scorers little room to operate. The ME rewards tactics that are good at creating space. 3) It's very vulnerable to conceding off the break. If you push up this far, you will inevitably give up easy goals on the counter-attack the way the ME works. Maybe this is similar however to real life, since that is a weakness of Barca's approach. 4) It will not be as effective with any team not named Barcelona. My thinking is that much of the reason for the success the OP had with this tactic managing Barcelona is that their players are loaded with the right PPM's, and they suit this style very well. Also, having the best ball movers in the world enables you to score at a high rate in spite of using a tactic that limits your offensive potential. Maybe this works for some people, but I just keep seeing these tactics show up and they always seem to have the same problems (everybody is posting 'great tactic, but I can't score goals, I'm conceding too much', etc. The ME can be thought of as a big scale with multiple platforms: Chance creation --- Possession --- Defensive integrity. You cannot maximize all three, or even two of these, simultaneously. You emphasize one at the expense of the others. If you want more "good" chances (higher rate of scoring per chance), you must take risks with the ball, and taking risks means you will lose possession more often. Similarly, emphasizing chance creation might mean pushing your defensive line up, which sacrifices defensive integrity. I don't mean to steal the OP's thunder here as I think he's done a good job trying to emulate Barca here, but the best tactic I've found so far that balances the three factors above is Darren Smith's Manchelona tactic, which aims to fuse Barca's possession-based style with Man U's defensive integrity. With the right players you can achieve a great balance of the three (especially defensively), though it still occasionally suffers from the not-many-goals-but-many-chances problem. Just my two cents. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yonko Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Man United's defensive integrity? LOL. I don't think they are better defensively than Barcelona. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoetermeer Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Just because they allow fewer goals because they hold the ball the entire game does not mean they are better at playing defense. Anyway, the point is that you can concede far less in the ME and still retain a good possession ratio if you don't go so extreme in your pursuit of tiki-taka. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yonko Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 I wasn't referencing goals allowed at all. There is nothing good or special about United's defense to suggest they are better in that department than Barca, individually or collectively. In FM12 I don't know of anyone to struggle with conceding too many goals with Barca, regardless if they choose to play tiki-taka or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoetermeer Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 If you read my earlier message you would see that I was specifically suggesting this tactic for people who are not managing Barca. Again, the point is not "who has the better defense in real life". I don't want to turn the thread into a "Man U vs. Barcelona" argument. The point is that the tactic I suggested gives you a good chance of achieving balance. Just pretend I said "the defensive integrity of [insert your favorite good defensive team here]". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exius Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 4) It will not be as effective with any team not named Barcelona. My thinking is that much of the reason for the success the OP had with this tactic managing Barcelona is that their players are loaded with the right PPM's, and they suit this style very well. Also, having the best ball movers in the world enables you to score at a high rate in spite of using a tactic that limits your offensive potential. I think it's pretty realistic. IRL there are few teams that can play such tactic. It requires perfect technique, passing, first touch, decisions, teamwork. Arsenal, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich - maybe these are the only teams that could successfully use this tactic, but not as successfully as Barca. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yonko Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 If you read my earlier message you would see that I was specifically suggesting this tactic for people who are not managing Barca.Again, the point is not "who has the better defense in real life". I don't want to turn the thread into a "Man U vs. Barcelona" argument. The point is that the tactic I suggested gives you a good chance of achieving balance. Just pretend I said "the defensive integrity of [insert your favorite good defensive team here]". Where did you suggest this tactic for people who do not play as Barca? The point is you made a wrong statement with "Man United's defensive integrity" comment as if Barca do not have defensive integrity themselves. It would've been more acceptable if you has said that the tactic combines Barca's possession style with Man United's chance creation style. Personally I have found that tiki-taka tactics on FM are quite solid defensively and I have never had problems with my defense when using them. The problem with recreating the high possession Barca tactic is that it doesn't create enough CCCs and it doesn't make your team score high enough amount of goals as RL Barca does. In all honesty, it is not that difficult to create and implement a tactic with Barca that achieves a little less possession (but still more than the opposition), creates plenty of CCCs and scores a lot of goals, while also being solid defensively. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlm_77 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Been tinkering and trying to do my own version of this for ages... Finally getting some decent results. This is the best possession % I've ever had after 90 mins. Complete domination. Still suffering from the very strange 'left sway' which I'm trying to reduce but thought I'd share things first. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneskyride Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 most possession % i've ever seen. 147 completed passes for xavi is insane. Would you upload that tactic ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlm_77 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I will upload the tactic soon. Got to be happy with it. Here's another decent result after a bit more tweaking... I'm about 97% finished with it, just need to get the same results against some harder opposition and away from home to - I have done this to a degree and had some amazing results 4-1 away to Real Madrid but lost a couple without creating any GS opps in some matches...not sure why. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlm_77 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Couple more... My team really took their foot off the pedal at about 75 mins, or ran out of steam as before that, Xavi was already on 90 passes and I thought he'd do a lot more, still 106 / 99 is still good and over the target 100 mark. 70% possession was also higher until the latter stages but away from home, awesome result. Oh, and 16 shots / 9 on target...their keeper kept the score down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samfisher Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Upload your tac man , look better than the other barca tac .... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneskyride Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 if you upload it maybe we can make it all better away from home/against better opposition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unique One Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 upload the tactic , lets give it a try Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlm_77 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 V-Twin <---- DOWNLOAD and have a go Link works. Tactic is called V-Twin This is still a work in progress - don't forget to set Xavi (or whoever is in the CM role) as Playmaker, free kick and corner taker - i dont think that is automatic. I've only tried this with Barca. Feedback welcome. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samfisher Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Thanks , i'll test it next match :x .......... your possession is very very good Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlm_77 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Anyone had a go yet? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlm_77 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 I've finished version 1.1 - seems to have just about got rid of that left sway issue and seems a bit more potent. I'm off to work now and not home until after midnight, i'll try and get it uploaded tonight, if not, tomorrow morning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samfisher Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 i've try with my spain save , match with france i win 2-0 (neutral) and poss 68 % ... really good , shoot on target many ^^. the match with ireland i win 4-0 and poss above 70 % , i love your tac ..... sr i don't have to upload ss ...... btw , your tac is very good , congrat tlm_77 PS : waiting for your next ver Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kammeng_nando Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Hi Krunccni, I am from Macau SAR (lower part in China) Thanks for making a crazy amazing tactics for us !!! Here are some pictures to show how great your tactics is : By ba60146 at 2011-12-09 By ba60146 at 2011-12-09 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bromi88 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 tlm_77 im using your tactic with man united doing ok 8 games played won 5 drawn 3 havnt concecded a goal but im only scoring one goal a game if that any think i can do to improve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabusribut Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 tlm_77 tactic suffered the same thing as Krunccni tactic.No doubt about passing and possession but with no end product. Which means they can't score goal. I mean a lot of goals. Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlm_77 Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 tlm_77 tactic suffered the same thing as Krunccni tactic.No doubt about passing and possession but with no end product. Which means they can't score goal. I mean a lot of goals. Thanks! I am working on this and think I've improved goals for version 1.1 - just got back from work (late as usual) so going to do a little more testing in the morning before uploading V-Twin 1.1 - so far, some good results and it appears more consistant Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yaşar Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 tlm_77 ım looking your version 1.1 ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlm_77 Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 1.1 looking good. Great team effort against Valencia away. Should have been 0-4 but Alexis missed a penalty for his hat-trick...5 CCC's too. My only niggle was that Xavi didn't hit over 100 passes but I don't that is possible in every game (although that's what I'm trying to get from my tactics, as well as the free scoring!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlm_77 Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Some screenies of Xavi's awesome passing leading to a Cesc goal in latest match... I'll try to upload a video of the move cause it's so pleasing on the eye! Here's your download link for V-Twin 1.1 - V-TWIN 1.1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yaşar Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 tlm_77 thank you for the version 1.1 .Did you use any opposition instructions ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlm_77 Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Thank you. No, I don't do anything once the matches start. I reckon if one were to do so, the results might be even better. I plan to do more in-match over time, firstly, I just wanted to see how the tactic plays. Without any in-match shouts or moving players etc, it's pretty good to be fair. With changes, it might be a monster, especially with Barca players. I think it definitely achieves nearly all that real Barca does, maybe just minus the amount of goals - perhaps the ME wont allow this, I actually believe I need to further tweak to get more goals. Version 1.2 will happen in due course!!! Always a work in progress! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneskyride Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 you can upload the xavi assist on youtube ( upload highlights ) would love to see it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben carter Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Hi all, After reading through many threads and trying many tactics trying to emulate the Barca style I have become somewhat obsessed trying to copy them. I've created my own version based on the premises of tlm_77's and krunccrni's ideas who got me most of the way, so excellent work there. Very limited testing so far but early results I'll test a bit more and post back Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben carter Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Just a bigger version of the screens because the text etc looks a little small on the ones before Click for the full size Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpsia518 Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 & how about playmaker ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlm_77 Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Excellent stuff Ben! What formation are you using? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ventura116 Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Match of Ac milan - http://imageshack.us/f/4/barca30acmilan.jpg/ Stats - http://imageshack.us/f/440/statsmatchacmilan03barc.jpg/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Perfect-Fm'er! Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Anyone tried re-creating the 3 at the back system? I've got a great one in terms of results and possession but not quite passing stats of specific players i.e Xavi, I think it's because the midfield is too overloaded maybe. Won 12 la liga games in a row and have had at least 65% possession in all games, majority over 70%, with some reaching 80%+ ...but passing is spread out over the team, rather than Xavi making a lot more than others. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mydreamteam Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Anyone tried re-creating the 3 at the back system?I've got a great one in terms of results and possession but not quite passing stats of specific players i.e Xavi' date=' I think it's because the midfield is too overloaded maybe. Won 12 la liga games in a row and have had at least 65% possession in all games, majority over 70%, with some reaching 80%+ ...but passing is spread out over the team, rather than Xavi making a lot more than others.[/quote'] could you upload your 3 at the back tactic please Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
2xtreme Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Some screenies of Xavi's awesome passing leading to a Cesc goal in latest match...I'll try to upload a video of the move cause it's so pleasing on the eye! Here's your download link for V-Twin 1.1 (...) Could you provide another download link for the tactic? The filefactory one isn't working for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitja Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 After playing with this tactic, I'm even more convinced that this kind of thing doesn't jive well with the ME than I was before. These tiki-taka tactics aimed at maximizing possession are great at just that, but they do not really emulate Barca's style, IMO. 1) Way too much time is spent passing the ball around in your own half. To emulate Barca's high defensive line while on the attack, we use a team setting of 'high defensive line'. But this setting cannot emulate Barca's dropping of defenders deep when their keeper has the ball in order to create space in the midfield. Right now my keeper spends a lot of time unsure where to pass because my defenders are pushing up and space is compacted in the midfield. 2) The ME rewards variety in chance-creation. This tactic (and others) throws out long shots, crosses, even crossing corners -- basically everything aerial, as well as direct counter-attack style ball movement. But the ME will not allow you to score much when you are slowly building up your attack in the opponent's half, compacting space and giving your scorers little room to operate. The ME rewards tactics that are good at creating space. 3) It's very vulnerable to conceding off the break. If you push up this far, you will inevitably give up easy goals on the counter-attack the way the ME works. Maybe this is similar however to real life, since that is a weakness of Barca's approach. 4) It will not be as effective with any team not named Barcelona. My thinking is that much of the reason for the success the OP had with this tactic managing Barcelona is that their players are loaded with the right PPM's, and they suit this style very well. Also, having the best ball movers in the world enables you to score at a high rate in spite of using a tactic that limits your offensive potential. Maybe this works for some people, but I just keep seeing these tactics show up and they always seem to have the same problems (everybody is posting 'great tactic, but I can't score goals, I'm conceding too much', etc. The ME can be thought of as a big scale with multiple platforms: Chance creation --- Possession --- Defensive integrity. You cannot maximize all three, or even two of these, simultaneously. You emphasize one at the expense of the others. If you want more "good" chances (higher rate of scoring per chance), you must take risks with the ball, and taking risks means you will lose possession more often. Similarly, emphasizing chance creation might mean pushing your defensive line up, which sacrifices defensive integrity. I don't mean to steal the OP's thunder here as I think he's done a good job trying to emulate Barca here, but the best tactic I've found so far that balances the three factors above is Darren Smith's Manchelona tactic, which aims to fuse Barca's possession-based style with Man U's defensive integrity. With the right players you can achieve a great balance of the three (especially defensively), though it still occasionally suffers from the not-many-goals-but-many-chances problem. Just my two cents. defenetly agree with everything what's written above. here's my two cents.. first, looking for both Barca and Xavi to have realistic amount of passes is stupid, since FM game doesn't last 90 minutes. I think it's 'real time' is something like 45 min, maybe a bit more. to translate this into FM, anything more than 50 passes should be considered as realistic as Xavi's real life's 100 passes. second thing, Barcelona's zonal pressing cannot be replicated in current ME. closing down doesn't work as it should - there's only 1on1 defending (the basics of zonal defending is to defend as a unit) and players don't anticipate well enough, they start pressing only when opposition receives the ball plus some other stuff. real life Barca's high posession is based as much as on their attacking style and ability, also on their master high zonal pressing game. having this in mind posession you will automatically loose at least 10% of posession. but probably even more. any tactic that tries to replicate high amount of posession based on extra slow tempo is fundamentaly flawed. one touch, pass and move football, which tika-taka defenetly is, requires apropriate tempo settings. achieving high posession via extra slow tempo should be considered as artificial, as it leads to low amounts of created chances and ultra slow buil up of play. while Barcelona's build up surely isn't the fastest direction wise, it relies on qiuck passing and movement on small space where they constantly beat opposition and find goalscoring chances in gaps which have created. Barcelona basic formation is 4-3-3: DL DC DC DR DM MC MC AMR AML FC. while I agree it's much easier to replicate wingers cut inside roles via AMC positition, any deviation from 433 isn't realistic. fullbacks overlap, especially Alves, Xavi is link between defense and attack, Iniesta is box to box player performing also on the wing, both wingers have cut inside roles, Villa is basiclly a striker comming from the wing and Messi takes part in build up much more than he used to before. great amount of this is impossibile to recreate in detail on current ME. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerobianchi Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Barcelona haven't played 4-3-3 for about 5 years now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitja Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 looks like it's been a while since you watched them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yonko Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Barca plays 3-4-3 more than 4-3-3 this season. In their last game against Santos, they used the following: ---------------Valdes------------------ ---------------------------------------- ----------------Pique------------------ ---Puyol-------------------Abidal----- --------------Busquets---------------- ---------------------------------------- --------Xavi------------Iniesta-------- ----------------------------------------- Alves--------Fabregas---------Thiago ----------------------------------------- ----------------Messi------------------- To be more specific, this is actually a 3-1-2-3-1 or 3-6-1. Against Real M, the formation was similar also. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
123hello Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Barca plays 3-4-3 more than 4-3-3 this season. In their last game against Santos, they used the following:---------------Valdes------------------ ---------------------------------------- ----------------Pique------------------ ---Puyol-------------------Abidal----- --------------Busquets---------------- ---------------------------------------- --------Xavi------------Iniesta-------- ----------------------------------------- Alves--------Fabregas---------Thiago ----------------------------------------- ----------------Messi------------------- To be more specific, this is actually a 3-1-2-3-1 or 3-6-1. Against Real M, the formation was similar also. If your talking attacking shape then yes, but no way is that there standard formation. Alves is primary a right-back. Yeah he deos get well forward but he is not a right winger! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ataggy Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 its all very nice to knock it about and dilly dally on the ball and get high poss stats but it aint no bloody good if you dont score! maybe we need time to get familiar fluid levels. trying v1.1 btw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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