The Barcelona Style: My Interpretation

[Guest]

I've read it's a big no no to play a lone striker with an attacking duty without any AMC support behind but what would the Eto'o role be in Barca's 2008/09 system under Guardiola in his 1st season? I was thinking an AF but wouldn't this be difficult to get working in FM?

It's not the most optimal approach but if you have players with the right level of quality playing & use the right roles in midfield a lone ST in an attack duty can be very effective, i've used an AF or Poacher in the lone role with a lot of success & will often use a CF(a) or DLF(a) in my current primary 4-1-4-1 formation.

[Fritz13]

Saw Cesc Fabregas talking on Sky last night about how Barca changed their formation once he arrived to a 3-4-3 with him and Messi taking turns to play the F9 role whilst the other dropped deeper to be an AMC.

He mentioned that both he and Messi were technically F9s but knew that if Messi dropped then Fabregas would stay up higher and if Fabregas dropped deep them Messi would swap and play higher

I was wondering how to set this up in FM

TIs for roaming perhaps

PIs for drop deep plus a few more

Wasn't sure if you'd just have 1 playing the F9 and the other as maybe a TRQ in the AM strata.

I'd imagine they'd just get in each other's way though.

Would this ever be achievable via FM?

[DanP123]

I'd imagine a F9 and a Shadow Striker at AM. Then you could play around with the PI's and make the two players swap positions.

[yonko]

Saw Cesc Fabregas talking on Sky last night about how Barca changed their formation once he arrived to a 3-4-3 with him and Messi taking turns to play the F9 role whilst the other dropped deeper to be an AMC.

He mentioned that both he and Messi were technically F9s but knew that if Messi dropped then Fabregas would stay up higher and if Fabregas dropped deep them Messi would swap and play higher

I was wondering how to set this up in FM

TIs for roaming perhaps

PIs for drop deep plus a few more

Wasn't sure if you'd just have 1 playing the F9 and the other as maybe a TRQ in the AM strata.

I'd imagine they'd just get in each other's way though.

Would this ever be achievable via FM?

Messi = False9

Cesc = SS

Instructed them to swap places/positions. With the current Barca squad you could do that with Messi and Suarez, I suppose.

Btw, there is no PI to drop deep. It's a PPM.

[Fritz13]

Messi = False9

Cesc = SS

Instructed them to swap places/positions. With the current Barca squad you could do that with Messi and Suarez, I suppose.

Btw, there is no PI to drop deep. It's a PPM.

My bad Yonko

(I knew what I meant to write!)

Is the option to swap only available outside of the PIs and TIs?

I can't think offhand where to select it?

[Jean0987654321]

My bad Yonko

(I knew what I meant to write!)

Is the option to swap only available outside of the PIs and TIs?

I can't think offhand where to select it?

You don't see the swap positions option in the PIs??

[yonko]

My bad Yonko

(I knew what I meant to write!)

Is the option to swap only available outside of the PIs and TIs?

I can't think offhand where to select it?

The swap instruction should be part of the PI. It is also available during matches too.

[Fritz13]

The swap instruction should be part of the PI. It is also available during matches too.

I haven't looked - not played for a few days ..... Have never used swap in a tactic before

Cheers for the help guys.

[kingjericho]

Looking at this for FM17  probably still comes in handy

[Shameless1]

On 28/9/2011 at 11:36, wwfan said:

I've been promising to write this for a while now, but never had the time to sit down and do it. Wet weather has curtailed my evening plans, so I'll take the chance to do it now.

I got involved in a debate/rant in the GD forum about the 'unrealism' of tactics and the ME. One of the arguments from the side attacking the ME was that if it were realistic, then it would be possible to recreate the Barcelona style of tactic in FM. It was posited that because nobody had successfully done so, then the ME was patently flawed. I disagreed with the premise, arguing that such a tactic should be extremely difficult to get right, as so few teams had ever approached that level in the real world. The user manager would need to have in depth knowledge of tactical theory, know how to translate that into the game, and also have a team full of the right players to get it working. However, I decided to experiment in designing such a tactic. This is the outcome.

Limitations

Before continuing, there is one serious limitation in the ME that prevents the tactic being exactly like the Barcelona tactic, in that defensive midfielders do not have the flexibility to drop between the DCs when the team is in possession. There is also one override required in the TC, namely the choice of Primary Playmaker. However, everything else in the tactic is done through the TC and shouts, with no manual tweaking.

Flawed Interpretations

The biggest problem I had with those trying to design a Barcelona-esque tactic was their insistence that Barcelona played an attacking style of football. Every time I watched them, they played possession football deep on the park, either moving the ball slowly upfield and probing space or attacking at pace if gaps opened up. Both types of play produced goals, the former through the technical brilliance of their midfield, the latter through the pace and directness of their inverted wingers and attacking full backs.

Barcelona: My Interpretation

My interpretation of the Barcelona tactic is that it has a triple-pivot playmaker system, with Xavi, Iniesta and Messi all dictating play from central positions. Xavi is generally the deepest and Messi the highest, although they often are not that far apart. This creative central trio is supported by three defensive players in the DC and DM positions, who provide a stable base of excellent defensive positioning and simple possession passes. Out wide, the inverted wingers angle into the space Messi creates by dropping deep and the full backs surge into the wide spaces behind them.

The tactic operates on the basic principle of controlling space, being high and tight in defence, and low and wide in attack. This is possible because the team are a hard working unit in both defence and attack and technically excellent in keeping the ball. As they keep the ball so well, they can afford to press aggressively in defence without getting tired, even in hot conditions.

Formation, Strategy and Philosophy

4-1-2-2-1 (4-3-3): Flat back four, one DM, two MCs, AML, AMR and FCC.

Counter: My own take on the Barcelona style is that is closest to the Counter Strategy in Football Manager than any other. When Barcelona get the ball, the first thing that happens is the defence drop deeper, opening up passing space between the defence and the playmaking midfield. The Counter Strategy enables this deep move. As mentioned above, they attack in two ways, the slow probe or the fast counter. Again, the Counter strategy allows this.

Balanced: Because their Barcelona get much of their width from the rampaging full backs while keeping the ball deep, the philosophical system that has the biggest differential between the full backs and the defence is the go to. This encourages both the possession play centrally, reducing the risky pass mentality, while allowing FBs on Attack duties to bomb forward at will. Balanced has the biggest mentality gap in these areas, hence it is my choice.

Adjustments

Shorter Passing: Barca play a short passing game. Anything that encourages this is required.

Greater Creative Freedom: You need to give players their head to create chances out of tight spaces, so encouraging creativity is a must.

Zonal Marking: Actually, not really needed as the shouts will determine this. However, I believe they mark zonally in reality, so....

Heavier Pressing: Barca press when they defend. Again, not really needed as you will use the shouts to do this. However, set it at maximum anyway.

Normal Tackling: Again, I'll use the shouts to set this.

More Roaming: Barca players move from their standard positions all the time. Greater roaming encourages this.

Player Roles/Duties

Sweeper Keeper/Support: Encourages the keeper to play short passes and make quick throws.

DCs/Cover/Stopper split: Barca have a high d-line when defending and a low one when in possession. The split DCs makes sense as it supports both. NB: I actually use a Ball Playing Defender in my tactic because I have players who can do the job. However, it is not a requirement.

Wing Backs/Attack: A key position on both flanks as it gives the team width when going forward. I will happily spend my entire transfer budget on a world class wing back they are so important to the system.

Defensive Midfielder/Defend: Although the deepest lying midfielder in the Barcelona tactic is the least technically accomplished, he is by no means a donkey and is a good ball player in his own right. The Anchor Man role is thus too limiting. The Defensive Midfielder role gives him a little more scope to feed players ahead of him.

MCR/Deep-Lying Playmaker/Support: Xavi's role and vital to ball maintenance. Will rarely get into goalscoring positions, but the deepness of his positioning due to the strategy ensures the payer is invariably unmarked and can dictate possession all match. Override the tactical defaults by ensuring he is the primary playmaker.

MCL/Advanced Playmaker/Attack: Iniesta's role and the key link between attack and midfield. As with Iniesta, might not score many goals, but provides multiple assists.

AML/R/Inside Forwards/Attack: This role encourages both wide men to move into open central space off the flanks when the FC drops deeper. It also opens space for the FBs to advance into on the flanks.

Trequartista: Messi's role, the playmaking centre forward who drops deep into midfield and runs at the defence.

Shouts

Retain Possession: Encourages keep ball.

Pass into Space: The technical passing shout that encourages all the players to play through balls to teammates breaking from deep.

Work Ball into Box: Encourage the edge of box passing moves and close range shots that typify Barcelona goals

Push Higher Up: Increases the d-line height when defending

Hassle Opponent: Ensures heavy pressing from all players

Stay on Feet: Ensures players stay on their feet in the tackle so they are able to immediately play the ball after winning it

Performance

I've only played one full season with this tactic, but results have been impressive. Won 35 out of 38, scoring 89 and conceding 8 in the league. Also won the League Cup and Champions League. Lost 3 matches all season, all of them 1-0.

NB: I'm not uploading the tactic. It can be created in minutes using the TC.

Hi' i've been reading this post, just now and what i noticed is that i'm just playing in a very similiar way, counter, balanced and what i had is a great possession football. The problem is understand fm mechanism beacuse when u think about barca you think control mentality,but in fm counter with slow tempo short pass act better. 

 

i'm actually building it according to my players strongess and weakness

[False 9]

Bump! Has anyone looked into recreating this for FM18 with possibly the use of the new roles, such as the Mezzala?

[yonko]

The thread that never dies.

[Kelvinu]

On 11/22/2017 at 20:02, yonko said:

The thread that never dies.

Yep. Also my hope to replicate didn't. Have bought fm for the past years trying to do it.

I'm very curious of your opinion on this wwfan's interpretation in FM2018 yonko, and also of Rashid's (have seen his video about Pep's City). Been reading that you replicate Guardiola's play to Structured and not Balanced, or do you just base it on its City squad?

Also, would Counter still fit that Barca's tactic, or Control would be better in these newer versions?

[rdk]

I am currently playing with Barcelona B team in my save (first season). The reason why I picked barca B (1st job, 1st team, 1st season, new save) is very simple. There are few good replications of Guardiolas tacitc during his time in barca, I don't want to replicate Guardiola's tacitc, I want to replicate Guardiola's barca. I don't want players who are similar to Xavi and Iniesta (thiago, veratti, denis suarez, arthur, de bruyne etc). I need the ones who are exactly the same, maybe not exactly the same because it is impossible, but very very similar

 

So I need to develop 4 core players for Guardiola's tactic, from La Masia, who fit the Cruyff's and Barca's philosophy (physical conditions, using brain, making good decisions, teamwork, character, etc). 

 

To do this I need to use replication of Guardiola's tacitc. But he made the tacitc for the players he had, world class Messi, magician Iniesta and genius Xavi. I need to develop the new ones. So I need to make the tacitc a little bit more simple, not that complicated. I can't expect from 17 yo kids to understand and fit the tacitc that was made for world class players. 

 

So I will be using 4-3-3 (with dm, wingers etc). As I have seen before in replications, people chose Control and Very Fluid for Guardiola's barca. I think for my B team I will chose control/fluid or maybe even standard/flexible? 

the roles I picked are: sk, 2x wing back (s), 2x bpd (d), HALF-BACK/deep-lying plamaker (d) for the Busquets role, DEEP-LYING PLAYMAKER(s)/roaming playmaker for Xavi's role, ADVANCED PLAYMAKER (A/s) for Iniesta's role, 2x inside forwards (s) and FALSE 9 for Messi's role.

TIs: retain possession, shorter passing, work ball into box, play out of defence, closing down more. I think 5 TI's might be enough as I want to keep it simple but some people will probably say it's already too much  I also thought about adding "push higher up", feel free to share your thoughts about TI's, mentality, shape etc.

PI's: standard PI's for wingbacks to stay wide, for goalkeeper to pass it to defenders and not throw it away as I want to keep the ball and have high possession. Also I want my inside forwards to stay wide and get further forward, tackle harder and mark tighter. For my ball playing defenders - I want them to close down much less. The most important ones: HALF-BACK (d) AKA BUSQUETS ROLE (close down much less), DEEP LYING PLAYMAKER (s) AKA XAVI (more risky passes), ADVANCED PLAYMAKER (a) AKA INIESTA (get further forward, and default ones: dribble more, more risky passes)

I don't expect the players to be on the same skill level as I think their potential is limited somehow by the creators of the game. I just want them to fit the system, to play like legendary barca team and get promotion to the La Liga 2 or make as man appearances in first team (and national team) as possible. To be honest, I don't really care about the results because youth teams are about developing players and not winning the games, but I need some good results because they will fire me  

 

So I think, the best picks from u-19 and current barca B's squad will be Oriol Busquets or Sergi Samper as the defensive midfielder, I was also thinking about Jandro Orellana. Carles Alena and Wilfrid Kaptoum as the players who are very similar to Andres Iniesta. Alex Collado also might be the next Xavi. The biggest problem is that I can't really find the player who might be playing Messi's role. I'm thinking about Carles Perez as he has high potential, he plays on right wing and is left footed, similar height/weight, I just need to train him to the false 9 role in the forward position, shadow striker in offensive midfielder position and advanced playmaker in right winger position. 

 

Sorry for the long post and lack of screenshots, maybe I will add that later on. I thought it would be better idea to write this in here instead of making new topic as it's thread about Barcelona's style which never dies and comes back to life every year. 

 

I would like you to take part in discussion with me, feel free to correct me, feel free to help me, feel free to add some of your thoughts and all that stuff.

Questions for now:

- should I stay with control/fluid or switch to standard/flexible or others?

- are the players picked for the roles good and close enough? (oriol busquets, sergi samper, jandro orellana = sergio busquets, carles alena, wilfrid kaptoum = andres iniesta, alex collado = xavi, carles perez = messi) Who should I pick in your opinion? 

- should I add more TI's like push higher up? dribble less? roam from positions?

- should I change somehow players instructions?

- should I add some opposition instructions?

 

Main goals for now: 

-  learn the preferred moves of Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Busquets and train the young players to do that stuff.

- don't get sacked because of poor results

- maybe get promoted from Spanish Segunda Divison to La Liga 2

- maybe get promoted to main Barca team (a man can dream) 

 

I hope many people (or at least anyone) will get my attention and try to discuss about this stuff with me I think its pretty cool idea and something not that usual as the typical recreation of Guardiola's tacitc. 

[kingjericho]

How about a refreshment for FM19? Is the "Tiki Taka" preset the way to go?

[yonko]

This thread never dies....7 years....

[Miravlix]

On 15/11/2018 at 22:19, kingjericho said:

How about a refreshment for FM19? Is the "Tiki Taka" preset the way to go?

 

I think we need to restart the thread, the changes in FM19 seems to obsolete most of what we said in this thread.

 

The pre-set's seems to be made by someone who designed them looking at real football and forgetting that FM is a game with a ME and our simulation technology is just not advanced enough that the ME is anywhere near real world football.

 

The only one that seems to really work is GEGENPRESSING as pressing is the big thing in FM19 + hoofball is golden.

 

The Tiki Taka seems to be a gegenpressing light who has little offensive power, because the players just don't move around to allow the passing system of Tiki Taka to work.