The Barcelona Style: My Interpretation

[yonko]

well i hope to get some more passing from xavi so i did not put it here, but here is link... any feedback is welcome, I know that there is a lot of fm fans that want to get statistic in game like "real life" barca

http://www.fileserve.com/file/Gahwc4U/Tic-Tac_barca_1.3a_(Barcelona,_Sep_2011).tac

Ah, I see you already are posting the tactic. But the link doesn't work for me. Could you repost it/upload it on a different server? Is it created in Classic mode or using the TC?

[krunccrni]

Ah, I see you already are posting the tactic. But the link doesn't work for me. Could you repost it/upload it on a different server? Is it created in Classic mode or using the TC?

try now http://www.fileserve.com/file/Gahwc4U/Tic-Tac_barca_1.3a_%28Barcelona,_Sep_2011%29.tac

[krunccrni]

try now http://www.fileserve.com/file/Gahwc4U/Tic-Tac_barca_1.3a_%28Barcelona,_Sep_2011%29.tac

thread opened http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/277153-Barcelona-style-in-FM-2012

[gipsy]

Very interesting read, wwfan a couple of questions: How would you set the crossing on the tactics/team instructions panel both for a 433 and 343 formation? Secondly, at some point in the thread Los_Culés suggests to put xavi with forward run often, how can I set this? Thanks

[gipsy]

I have completed the demo with both tactics described by wwfan in the thread, using the 4-3-3 formation away and 343 (or 370) for home games and away against "small" teams, I must say the results are impressive

wwfan, I would still like to know how you would set up the crossing on the team instructions panel, any hints?

here are two screenshots, if you have questions, shout

Team

Tactic analysis

[gipsy]

how can i change the res on imageshack so that people can actually read the screenies?

[furiousuk]

The images in this forum are always set to 800x600 so that you don't get annoyingly large images clogging up the forum and slowing everything to a crawl.

When you upload to imageshack there should be an option that says something like 'don't resize', click it and they'll stay the original size in imageshack then when users click on the image they should be directed to it's full-size counterpart. If you're playing on a large resolution then the image in the forum screenie will always be difficult to see.

As regards your earlier question about Xavi and forward runs:

For FM11-> Click on Xavi and then change the other half of the screen to see player instructions (this should be done automatically). Click on the advanced button (near the top right of the player instructions area I think). You'll then see all the sliders and options beneath the TC. There should be a slider for 'Runs From Deep' that can be set to rarely, default, often - Runs From Deep is the new term for Forward Runs and they are exactly the same. If you click it to often Xavi should move into more advanced positions more often when your team regain possession.

[gipsy]

Thanks for the hint on imagehack furiousuk, it's working but in order to get full size pics, IE needs to be used, I'll try your suggestion for FWR

[aderow]

You know....I wonder how many MCs you can put on the field before it starts to hurt you defensively....

I mean, theoretically, if you are a team of barca's pedigree and you are getting 70+% possession every game, playing with like 7 MCs shouldn't hold too many defensive issues right?

I wonder if I worded that right....

[furiousuk]

I did try this experiment of using loads of midfielders and the results were, well, interesting.

This shows my original interpretation with the average positions at half-time. The WB's continually drifted deeper than the DM's which meant that the opposition strikers were frequently played onside in dangerous positions. At half-time I changed the WB's to Wide Midfielders which greatly improved the situation. This meant that I finished the game with a compact 343 (DM,DM,DM, MR,MC,MC,ML, AMR,AMC,AML).

This shot shows the final, disappointing, stats. The 5-0 scoreline is largely attributed to the fact that I am vastly superior to my opponent. A better team against me would certainly have scored many times, particularly if they had a quick FC, largely due to the FB's playing them onside. Attack wise it was quite potent as it encouraged the opposition to push forward and allowed soooo many through balls in behind but, as is most clear, it did not gain enough possession and when you are playing that high you need to control the ball.

The reason for a lack of possession was 2-fold. Despite high closing down and plenty of roaming and CF the team liked to hold their shape which meant they didn't push forward to put pressure on the opposition defenders who were, in turn, quite reluctant to play forward passes as none were available. I have seen this type of thing in other threads too. The 2nd point is that my players were continually playing through-balls because they were always on, hence the high score line.

This next shot shows how the central player played as a DM when not in possession (as is usual for Barca).

However, you can already see that there is quite a hole developing in the middle. Any decent opposition would exploit that gap easily, but not on the counter as this next shot shows:

The DM has withdrawn into the 'defensive line' whilst the FB's have pushed forward. The shape here is not entirely un-Barcelona like although one of my MC's has gone on a little jolly.

The biggest problem was that the central 3 DM's didn't really operate at all like a back-line. Sometimes the DMC would push forward and leave a gap that wasn't covered whereas a lot of the time the DMCR & DMCL would push forward and leave the DM or FB's playing on-side the FCs. As the 2nd shot shows it plays so high the opposing FC's are often in a very dangerous position and surely decent opposition would use them whereas Partizan didn't really have the ability although they did, rarely, try this to no avail.

As this was an experiment my team had almost no fluidity with the tactic so it might be that a lot of the problems could be ironed out with tactical fluidity and more extreme tweaks to elicit the behaviour you want to see but I have a feeling that your 'backline' would play so high that this defenderless formation wouldn't really work.

Interesting though

[aderow]

furiousuk......well that was quick

I say give it a few more games and see what happens

[däkkä]

It seems that getting good amounts of possession is easier than it was in FM11. I think the new shouts 'play out from defence' and 'pass through defence' are great for a passing game. I also like the 'cross early' shout as the full-backs are happier to retain possession from deeper positions. While the previous two sentences might've sounded like an attempt to promote the game, it does feel easier to control the game against lesser teams that drop back.

I just played a friendly with AS Roma. Using simple TC tactics I had 75% ball possession and Gago (dlp / def) completed 111 passes, a number which I never reached in FM11. I haven't played enough to make a judgment about teams that press higher up or are of higher quality but still I'm pretty excited that to have great possession %, I don't need to resort to classic tactics that make in-game tweaking so time-consuming.

[furiousuk]

furiousuk......well that was quick

I say give it a few more games and see what happens

It was something I had the idea for earlier (no back-line) but your post reminded me that I'd got some screenies!!

If I had more time to play then it might be something I'd pursue, I think it would take ALOT of work to get to a solid tactic. It's extremely compact, as you'd expect, but the opposition didn't seem to have a great deal of success playing long over the top of everybody. This might be to do with the fact that my 'back-line' had a minimum of 15 for pace but it might also just have been that the opposition were rubbish, I suspect, unfortunately, that it is the latter.

I think the shouts I used were the same as wwfan suggests in the opening post.

[Los_Culés]

It seems that getting good amounts of possession is easier than it was in FM11. I think the new shouts 'play out from defence' and 'pass through defence' are great for a passing game. I also like the 'cross early' shout as the full-backs are happier to retain possession from deeper positions. While the previous two sentences might've sounded like an attempt to promote the game, it does feel easier to control the game against lesser teams that drop back.

I just played a friendly with AS Roma. Using simple TC tactics I had 75% ball possession and Gago (dlp / def) completed 111 passes, a number which I never reached in FM11. I haven't played enough to make a judgment about teams that press higher up or are of higher quality but still I'm pretty excited that to have great possession %, I don't need to resort to classic tactics that make in-game tweaking so time-consuming.

Well, I've never used shouts, but I can't stress how important is to be very stingy with the FWR instruction. Eg. a simple flat 4-4-2 with both central mids set as deep lying playmakers with FWR rarely and your team will have a loads of possesion anyway.

[headcoat]

Fascinating thread. I'm still deep in my FM11 save as Barca - currently using a 2-4-2-2 tactic, 2 CD's, then two WB's and two DM's, then two APM's and finally two strikers.

Used much of wwfans strategy and philosophy (not formation)...one thing I do differently is use pass to feet rather than pass into space and retain possesion. My reasoning being Barca do play through balls but more often than not play patient (tica-tac) passing to feet prior to finding the right moment for the through ball. Perhaps retain possession + pass into space creates similar.

Finding I get 60%+ possession most matches, sometimes 70%+ but when game is close more like 55%+...

Other thing I thought to add is imho when Barca play 4-3-3 the forward three are more like (at least last season) - Messi (trequatista) - Pedro (AMLR) - Villa (STRCL). Villa seems to sit to the left of centre striker role rather than AML, certainly he drifts wide now and then but he is usually more advanced than AML and also more central most of the time. Almost half way between STRL and AML...?

[gipsy]

just play Villa i the AML position in a 4-3-3 as you mentionned headcoat, he bags them for fun

[Jorgen]

I hope you will find a way to make this work for FM12 too.

[Braumiller]

I am using the exact tactic as laid out in the original post with Leicester in my FM12 career game, and it is a great tactic. Produces very nice football and solid at the back.

P16, W13, D0, L3, F35, A10, GD+25, Pts39 (5 clear of 2nd).

Leicester are predicted 5th and have a great squad for the division, ticked 'no transfers in first transfer window' and in November, so squads are 'as you were'.

Injuries have hit hard, Beckford (starting FC) out for 2 months, Vassell (starting AMR, 9 goals in 11 lge games) also 2 months.

Great tactic and I can delude myself that we are a mini Barca

** Edit, my DC's are both 'Limited Defenders' with a Cover / Stopper split - only change from original post

[The-Perfect-Fm'er!]

It's hard to fully replicate Barca but I'm doing (IMO) a fairly good job. Swansea City, every game in Premiership, I've had more possession and in large majority, even including United ..60%+. My deep lying playmaker makes around 60-80 passes per game, sometimes more and sometimes (Arsenal/City away, 45-50ish) against Man United, he made 93 passes out of 100 attempted which was pretty impressive. He's also only 19 so can only get better, while not too mention, more teams will possibly sit back after my 10th place finish when they play at home, so should mean get more and more on the ball.

The problem is breaking teams down still, hard to get that balance between making good runs to get in behind but also making sure enough players are dropping deeper so there are always options on.

A bit different to Barca in that I have both full backs bombing on and not just the one, although I guess Barca still do push on the other full back but not quite to the extent of Alves.

Also, I play with a DM, CM, AM, ST ....again different. Danny Graham up front, I didn't want to try 'total football' in possibly the shape Barca play (when playing 4-3-3 as 3-4-3 is too difficult to replicate IMO)...where Messi drops in the hole, so I have got a striker in Graham that has runs from deep on 'medium' so he does both show and cause a goal threat. My attacking midfielder to be fair doesn't push on, so in that way, I do recreate the Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta feel to things, with Joe Allen, Verratti and J.Viera (not quite the same quality mind!)

Trying to get both inside forwards to make runs in between full backs/centre backs. Sometimes to success, sometimes not so. Something I'm trying to work on, which hopefully will also keep allowing the wing backs to bomb on.

I'm hoping once I bring in more quality and better players, it will grow as a tactic and only improve, rather than show little progression which I found on FM2011.

Has anyone else been trying to keep this going?

[martywigham]

With the addition of some new shouts in FM12, would you suggest adding 'Play out of defence' and 'Play through defence' to the list you posted wwfan?

[wwfan]

With the addition of some new shouts in FM12, would you suggest adding 'Play out of defence' and 'Play through defence' to the list you posted wwfan?

Play out of defence, yes. Play through defence, no, as it will reduce Messi's runs.

[martywigham]

Yes I wondered about play through defence. I guessed that if you were trying to implement this style with another team it might have this effect on the Trequartista, but with Messi specifically it might not be so much of a problem due to the high creative freedom and his Run With Ball Often PPM.

[Benoit2]

Im surprised noone has talked about width and tempo yet. With the setup from the first post, the width is narrow and the tempo is slow/mixed. Do Barca not play with very high width and high tempo (=less time on the ball, quicker passing)?

[wwfan]

Im surprised noone has talked about width and tempo yet. With the setup from the first post, the width is narrow and the tempo is slow/mixed. Do Barca not play with very high width and high tempo (=less time on the ball, quicker passing)?

Not from my observations. Much of their passing is done in very tight spaces in the centre of the pitch, with only overlapping FBs providing width. Further, their game is slow-slow-fast rather than high tempo when in possession. They are certainly high tempo in defence, but many of their passing moves initiate with the ball being recycled to the back line and built from slow pass probing between the DCs and DMCs/MCs. It is only when space opens that they hit the accelerator.

[Benoit2]

Not from my observations. Much of their passing is done in very tight spaces in the centre of the pitch, with only overlapping FBs providing width.

Do their wingers not try to stretch the field of play by playing wide, near the touchline?

Further, their game is slow-slow-fast rather than high tempo when in possession. They are certainly high tempo in defence, but many of their passing moves initiate with the ball being recycled to the back line and built from slow pass probing between the DCs and DMCs/MCs. It is only when space opens that they hit the accelerator.

So how would you try to replicate one touch passing? Afaik, the Barca players often spend little time on the ball, as they very quickly pass it to someone else. You need high tempo for this to encourage players to quickly pass the ball.

One of the downsides of the TC is that tempo and width cant also be adjusted up or down via a setting. If I change passing to short, it automatically drops width and tempo as well. It would be nice to also have options to change these two up or down. The only way now is to do it manually, but then it wont change at all when chaning strategies.

Another downside if that you cant train tactics with shouts for match preparation. Now, you create and train a tactic, but you always play with a highly altered tactic.

[Mitja]

imo they're passing the ball around at fastest possible rate which is basic element of tika taka. Xavi, Iniesta and Messi have complete freedom with the ball. it might apear they don't play at very fast tempo becouse the ball doesn't move forward quickly but that is the difference between posessional and direct/counter-attacking style. translated into FM words tempo is fast with little amount of players playing through balls, so that passing is into feet. key element is mentality which should be quite low so that the ball doesn't move forward quickly. unfortunatly there are many downsides of low mentality which can't get you replicate Barca style even further.

central diamond Busqets-Xavi-Iniesta-Messi is the base for Barca posessional play. Camp Nou is a huge ground and Barca are taking advantage of it. width is provided by fullbacks with ALves being more like winger but left back much more conservative (no metter who plays there). wingers both provide width and move inside, providing passing options when needed on wing or cutting in and moving inside and around the box depending on where the ball is.

[Fabian Jonsson]

@wwfan: one of the key concepts of Guardiola's football philosophy is that the midfielders should never try to hang on to the ball if they recieve it with their back to the goal. Since they indeed as you state pass the ball around among the defenders to lure the opponents up, this results in a lot of passes from defenders to defenders, defenders to midfielders and then straight back to defenders. When you look carefully, eventhough the midfielders are extremely good with the ball, they rarely even try to hang on to the ball or look for a different passing option - they send it straight back to the defence. Only when they have managed to lure the opposition high enough for Xavi, Messi, Fabregas or Iniesta to find space between defence and midfield of the opponents, do they try a through ball, and only then does the reciever try to turn around and "make something happen". Is this emulated in your tactics, and if not, can it be?

[Benoit2]

Also, is it not true you should use hard tackling to make your players try to win the ball back quickly? With easy tackling, they give too much time on the ball for the opponent. With hard tackling, they'll be quicker to engage. I think a better description of the tackling slider is rarely, mixed, often, rather than easy, mixed, hard..

[Cleon]

Also, is it not true you should use hard tackling to make your players try to win the ball back quickly? With easy tackling, they give too much time on the ball for the opponent. With hard tackling, they'll be quicker to engage. I think a better description of the tackling slider is rarely, mixed, often, rather than easy, mixed, hard..

The type of tackling doesn't mean he will tackle quicker at all though, just how agressive the tackle is. So the current description is fine. Hard tackling means they will attempt a tackle even if there is only 10% chance of winning it. Easy is like when a player is certain they will win the challenge.

[Benoit2]

The type of tackling doesn't mean he will tackle quicker at all though, just how agressive the tackle is. So the current description is fine. Hard tackling means they will attempt a tackle even if there is only 10% chance of winning it. Easy is like when a player is certain they will win the challenge.

You seem to contradict yourself. First you say that tackling is how aggressive the tackle will be. This means that in a particular situation, it doesnt matter what the tackling setting is, a player will go for the tackle. However, with hard tackling, he will go in more aggressively. Probably more physical contact, more chance of injury, more chance of yellow card. With easy tackling, a player would go in less physically. Less chance of winning the ball, but also less chance of injuries or cards.

However, then you say that with hard tackling, a player will go in even if there's just a 10% chance of winning the ball. With easy tackling, he would only tackle when he's certain to win it. This means that in a particular situtation, the tackling setting does determine whether the player will go in. This is exactly what I was saying as well. Hard tackling means going for it, even if the chance isnt big of winning. Its the aggressiveness of the player himself which in this case would determine just how hard/physical the tackle will be. This also means you'll have a higher number of attempted tackles. Thats my point. Because with easy tackling, you'll have fewer tackles (which is why 'rarely' would be a better description), therefore your opponent will have an easier time on the ball, as they will be challenged less often.

You do agree that there's a difference between how often a player goes for a tackle, and how hard/physical he will go in for the tackle? Which of the two, in your opinion, is what the tackling setting does?

[Cleon]

You seem to contradict yourself. First you say that tackling is how aggressive the tackle will be. This means that in a particular situation, it doesnt matter what the tackling setting is, a player will go for the tackle. However, with hard tackling, he will go in more aggressively. Probably more physical contact, more chance of injury, more chance of yellow card. With easy tackling, a player would go in less physically. Less chance of winning the ball, but also less chance of injuries or cards.

Yes thats true.

However, then you say that with hard tackling, a player will go in even if there's just a 10% chance of winning the ball. With easy tackling, he would only tackle when he's certain to win it. This means that in a particular situtation, the tackling setting does determine whether the player will go in. This is exactly what I was saying as well.

It doesn't make the tackle happen faster though, it just determines how agressive the challenge is. For them to challenge faster would be mentality and closing down. Which is why I got confused because originally you said;

Also, is it not true you should use hard tackling to make your players try to win the ball back quickly?

For that you would need to close down heavily with a high dline to increase the chance he'd use the required attributes.

You do agree that there's a difference between how often a player goes for a tackle, and how hard/physical he will go in for the tackle? Which of the two, in your opinion, is what the tackling setting does?

Tackling is the aggressivness and his attributes determine how often.

Ultimatley his attributes would determine how often he tackles.

[Benoit2]

Im pretty sure I understand your viewpoint, which is that tackling determines how hard/aggressive a tackle will be.

However, what still doesnt add up for me, is your claim that hard tackling means a player will go in, even if there's a 10% chance. Because this claim talks about frequency of tackling, not aggressiveness. To add to that, your last claim is that attributes determine how often a player will go in. So everything you say pretty much points to one direction, except for that particular sentence. Could you clarify that?

Also, by attributes, do you mean player attributes (if so, which one would encourage more/less tackling?), or tactical instructions?

If we than also look at the names of the two shouts 'get stuck in' and 'stay on feet', and realize that these simply translate to hard/easy tackling, the names do not suggest a change in tackling frequency, but rather tackling style. This fits with your viewpoint, correct? So basically, easy tackling equates to trying to poke the ball away, whereas hard tackling means flying in along the ground, not caring whether you take both the ball as well as the man. Correct?

[Cleon]

However, what still doesnt add up for me, is your claim that hard tackling means a player will go in, even if there's a 10% chance. Because this claim talks about frequency of tackling, not aggressiveness. To add to that, your last claim is that attributes determine how often a player will go in. So everything you say pretty much points to one direction, except for that particular sentence. Could you clarify that?

Also, by attributes, do you mean player attributes (if so, which one would encourage more/less tackling?), or tactical instructions?

10% chance of winning the ball, its still aggressivness. What doesn't add up? Tackling (the slider) is about how aggressive the tackle the player makes are. So on hard he will still try and tackle even if he knows he might not win the ball.

Also, by attributes, do you mean player attributes (if so, which one would encourage more/less tackling?), or tactical instructions?

Yeah player attributes. Decisions, agression, composure, tackling, workrate, positioning all come into play. As for tactical instructions dline, closing down all help increase the chance of getting the tackle in earlier due to been pushed up and closing down heavily.

If we than also look at the names of the two shouts 'get stuck in' and 'stay on feet', and realize that these simply translate to hard/easy tackling, the names do not suggest a change in tackling frequency, but rather tackling style. This fits with your viewpoint, correct? So basically, easy tackling equates to trying to poke the ball away, whereas hard tackling means flying in along the ground, not caring whether you take both the ball as well as the man. Correct?

Yes spot on. The names say it all to me of the shouts, I think they are correct. As a kid I was told to get stuck in and that meant be more aggressive in the challenge. When they say stay on your feet it meant don't rush sliding in etc.

[Benoit2]

10% chance of winning the ball, its still aggressivness. What doesn't add up?

That you seem to suggest that when there's only a 10% chance of winning the ball, a player will go for it on hard, but not on easy tackling, in identical circumstances. If tackling doesnt determine frequency, but only aggressiveness, than it shouldnt matter how big or how small the chance is, the player is equally like to try and get the ball, regardless of easy or hard tackling. So if a player decides to go for it with a 10% chance, a player on easy tackling should also go for it with just 10% chance, except he will just stick a leg out to try and nick the ball away, rather than make a sliding tackle.

You understand my confusion? (only with this particular argument)

[ZdlR]

Let's use this image as a real-world example. It shows the progress of an inverted winger, the white circle, as he progresses down the line before coming inside on his stronger foot. The grey circle is the defender, who is jockeying the attacker as he dribbles. At point #1, the defender had just arrived at the attacker, having moved to close him down. He has a decision to make - do I tackle or not? There are too many variables in play to determine exactly what he might do at this point. First, you have his attributes - aggression, tackling, composure, concentration, decisions, etc. These are known to you, but not controlled by you. Then, you have his hidden variables like dirtiness. Finally*, you have the manager's input - his closing down, mentality, tackling (perhaps even creative freedom). Given that everything else is equal except tackling instruction, would the player be more likely to tackle at #1, #2 or #3? Personally, I cannot say absolutely. I can hypothesise that hard tackling will result in the player tending to tackle a greater percentage of the time at #1 than #2 or #3. I can also hypothesise that it doesn't matter whether or not he has hard tackling because it affects only style of tackle, not frequency (which are determined by tests against other attributes and settings). For this latter hypothesis, whether he tackles at #1, #2 or #3 is irrelevant but, when he does tackle, it will be 'hard'.

Cleon, when you referred to 'percentage likelihood of attempting a tackle' you favoured the first hypothesis. However, you also said that it does not affect how quick the player is to tackle, which falls into the second hypothesis. Thus, the contradiction.

For what it's worth, I think I sway toward the latter hypothesis. Logically, it makes more sense.The options aren't labelled 'rarely', 'mixed', 'often', like other sliders, which would directly imply frequency. Instead, they are labelled 'easy', 'normal', 'hard' which imply style. Also, it means that you can vary style and frequency independently: a defender with a very low mentality (ie: extremely risk averse) will only tackle when sure of getting the ball. Coupled with hard tackling from the second hypothesis, when he does finally choose to make this tackle, he will do so in with a hard style (ie: more likely to cause a foul but also more likely to stop the attacker). However, if you used the hard tackling definition from the first hypothesis, then you dilute the aversion to risk for this defender - albeit only with respect to tackling.

*Not finally at all, there are many, many other things at play: morale, motivation, condition, match practice etc.

[Cleon]

That you seem to suggest that when there's only a 10% chance of winning the ball, a player will go for it on hard, but not on easy tackling, in identical circumstances. If tackling doesnt determine frequency, but only aggressiveness, than it shouldnt matter how big or how small the chance is, the player is equally like to try and get the ball, regardless of easy or hard tackling. So if a player decides to go for it with a 10% chance, a player on easy tackling should also go for it with just 10% chance, except he will just stick a leg out to try and nick the ball away, rather than make a sliding tackle.

You understand my confusion? (only with this particular argument)

It's hard trying to find the right words to describe what I mean. Let me try another way;

A players attributes determine how and why the tackle is made. Decisions, workrate, concentration etc. The tackling slider just indicates how aggressive the tackle will be when the player decides to attempt it. A defender with hard tackling set will look to give his all in the challenge even if he risks injuring himself or picking up a card or whatever. Someone with easy tackling will still tackle but won't be wreckless in his challenge. Now this is were it gets tricky. What determines that point of the tackle is down to closing down. If for example someone is set to stand off but given hard tackling they will make the tackle at the very last point of their zone (well that's the theory if they have good anticipation, concentration, decisions etc). Someone with hard tackling and closing down often would look to make that attempted tackle a lot sooner, as someone enters his so called zone.

You can't isolate the slider on its own as it has far too many variables. Grrrr still don't think I've put across what I'm trying to say properly. My head is elsewhere and is focused on getting married tomorrow. So my apologies if it still doesn't make sense for you, but hopefully you get what I'm trying to say.

[wwfan]

My head is elsewhere and is focused on getting married tomorrow.

Congrats. Who's the lucky chap then?

[Cleon]

Congrats. Who's the lucky chap then?

Thank you kind sir and he's called Tim

[phnompenhandy]

Get off the forum Cleon! Have a wonderful day and honeymoon. Don't report in for a week!

[Jorgen]

Have a wonderfull day tomorrow Cleon!

[RTHerringbone]

Really interested in this thread. I'd tried to create a modern 4-5-1 / 4-3-3 and had done an OK job.

A few roles and duties differed between my attempts and this, and by tweaking I can already see the benefits of making those changes.

Have also just started using a new skin, so all in all a good night so far!

[thomit]

I'm currently using a tactic that is sort of a mix between wwfan's approach at making a Barca tactic, and Mantralux' FM 2011 Arsenal tactic. http://www.mantralux.com/2010/11/the-real-arsenal-4-2-3-1/

A few tweaks to combine the two, like using a complete forward instead of a trequartista up front (van Persie instead of Messi), and setting the overall team tempo, width and DL a little bit different than the tactic wizard comes up with, and a few tweaks in the individual instructions. The result is very very good indeed ... so far, 21 matches into the season, I have (w)18-(d)3-(l)0 (with Arsenal). Total goal difference 64-14. The goals just keeps coming, allmost equally distributed between van Persie, Gervinho and Walcott. Amazing. And that with a Gunners line-up that is far from optimal.

I use the same shouts at the start of every game that wwfan does ... Barca and Arsenal plays much of the same game.

[daleuk8]

Just started looking at this system, how would you adjust things? Say if you need a goal or need to keep a lead?

[thomit]

Me, I never change anything, except subs. I guess shouts like "pass to feet" instead of "pass into space", and take off the "work ball into box" shout, remove the runs instructions - stuff like that, if you just want to keep the ball to defend a narrow lead. But I have rarely been in need of that.

If i desperately need goals (not had much of that either, to be honest), I just sub under-performing attacking players, maybe use the get ball forward shout .... but I think the latter would have little effect, due to inherent attacking nature of this tactic and these players, really. Move the biggest and bestest headers up front and use the "pump ball into box" shout, if you're really really desperate But that is not really Barca's or Arsenal's way, is it ...

Edit: Well well ... finished the season as champions: 29-9-0 111-25 96Pts.! Won the FA cup 3-0 vs. Stoke in the finals ... Won the Champions League 1-0 in the last few seconds of the extras vs. Real Madrid. They got a player (Higuain) red carded early, and my players knocked on the door the whole match, but couldn't get passed Casillas ... untill the very last minute.

Absolutely thrilling. My gf thought I was going mad, screaming at the computer screen like an idiot. And needlessly to say - I'm going to stick to this "mixed" tactic for a while It looks really good in the 3D view as well.

[Exius]

Guys, any ideas how to make players make more passes?

[ham_aka_stam]

Can I just say, wwfan, this tactic is pretty much spot on.

The game's interpretation of dribbling seems slightly off, and players with the PPM Long Shots will still shoot too often, but well done, sir.

[ham_aka_stam]

Hmm, saying that, I've given it more of a bash and found (despite now having a DM) that my defence is very leaky (was using a flat 442 with two DLP, one Support and one Defend).

I've also found my possession is very poor, looking at 35% in some games.

I'm Manchester United, and whilst I don't have the best team in the world, I have won the league both seasons so far, and reached the CL final this.

Team is usually:

-----------------------De Gea

Rafael/Fabio, Evans/Smalling, Vidic/Rio, Evra/Angel

-------------------Fletcher/Jones

----------Carrick/Anderson, Costa/Cleverley

Nani/Morrisson---------------------Young/Sturridge

------------------Rooney/Macheda

[bhocielbaru@yahoo.com]

Hi there !

This sum screenie of my project about making mediocre team play Barca-esque style.

I'm using Swansea btw,

Sum best passes record from my playmaker (Joe Allen), and he consist producing 80+ pass every match. After half season my Swansea just sitting at 7th place EPL. So, I create new game with Swansea again to make the tactic more sharp in attack.

So far looks good, CCC increases, but the consequences my playmaker pass is reduced.

[Exius]

bhocielbaru@yahoo.com, what tactic are you using?

[bhocielbaru@yahoo.com]

bhocielbaru@yahoo.com, what tactic are you using?

I'm using 4-2-3-1 with radically tweak of course

And now my concern is the tactic very easy conceded from counter.

Vs Man U, I've got 60% possession, equally CCC (2 each), and Joe Allen got outstanding 85 pass. But I've lost 2-0 all from counter. Any suggest about that?