Tactical Theorems and Frameworks '07

[Miksu]

Originally posted by wwfan:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Miksu:

I like to use one good header as a target man and set everyone to cross ball to his head.

I don’t use a target man as I feel it limits attacking options. However, I think you could choose either alternative. The deeper FC may be able to flick on headers or hold up the ball if played to feet. Neil Purvis used to get really frustrated that this wouldn’t work in ’06, so it would be interesting to see if it does in ’07.

A quick ST could also reap dividends with balls played for him to run on to. It’s a matter of trial and error. It would be great if you could post any findings on target man.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for the answer. I tinkered with this yesterday, playing couple friendlies and watching them fully. I'm playing with a Finnish 1st division team, so my players are generally poor.

First, I set FCd as the target man (aim head). What I noticed was that almost every attack (about 95%) started by someone kicking the ball to my target man who usually nodded it to opponent, because his teammates weren't near enough. I tried setting attacking to go through both flanks but still all the balls were played through middle to target man. Meaning, as soon as my defenseman got the ball he kicked it to middle, even though wingers were free.

I then tried to put my target man to hold the ball but it didn't have any effect. I'm going to have a FM2007 weekend and hopefully after that I can give more details on how my tinkering with target man is going.

Why I try to play with a target man is because in my team I have one really good header (jumping/heading 17) and in the level he is playing, he only loses one or two of the headers per game. In my test game his stats were 39/40 and 30/30. I would like to _end_ my attacks to his head but it seems that if I use target man, my attacks start from his head. And most of the times, they end there...

Would be nice if I could get my wingers to cross to my best header, without using target man. I suppose the best I can do is to make them aim to center.

[fg]

Originally posted by mr.rooney:

Right, I'm going to buy FM07 tomorrow, and I almost always play with Manchester United and England. I just need a few pointers as a start to implement my first TT&F tactic.

First, I take it you play with two tactics, a home and an away version?

First, I'll go through what I have picked up should be the settings for the home tactic.

Tempo: 15 (fast)

TimeWasting: 5 (rarely)

Width: 15 (Wide)

Defensive Line: 5 (deep)?

GK: Mentality 14

CF/CD: 5

CDs: Mentality 6

Closing Down 17

Creative Freedom 3

Passing 14

Everything set to rarely, except through balls which is mixed

DMC: Menality 8

Closing Down 15

Creative Freedom 5

Passing 12

Forward Runs Mixed

Through Balls Often

Long Shots Often

Both Cross + Run with ball rarely

Hold up ball

DL/DR: Mentality 10

Passing 10

Creative Freedom 5

Closing Down 15

Everything mixed, except cross ball which is often

ML/MR

Mentality 12

Passing 8

Closing Down 10

Creative Freedom 10

Forward Runs, Cross Ball and Run with ball often, everything else mixed

FC1 : Mentality 14

Passing 6

Creative Freedom 15

Closing Down 5

Forward Runs, Through Balls often, everything else mixed (I plan to make this player Wayne Rooney, and give him a Free Role). Hold up ball as well

AMC: Mentality 16

Passing 4

Creative Freedom 15

Closing Down 5

Forwards Runs, Through balls, long shots often cross ball rarely, run with ball mixed

FC2: Mentality 18

Passing 2

Closing Down 5

Creative Freedom 15

Forward Runs often, everything else mixed

Please tell me if T've got anything wrong for the home tactics.

I've read how to counter the 3-3-2-1-1, so I should be okay when I encounter that.

Also, what changes do I need to make throughout the season? What should the away tactics be?

Sorry if the answers to these questions are further up in the thread wwfan. If I can understand everything about the TT&F tactics, I may have the most fun I've had in a long time with FM. I barely complete more than a couple of season's these days because I struggle so much with tacics.

So please help me to fully understand the TT&F tactics. I'm enthusiastic about the TT&F all of a sudden, and I'm very willing to put the time in to get my tactics working like they should.

Thanks in advance for the help wwfan, and I hope you enjoy 07 as much as you enjoyed

06.

rooney, you played fast tempo home? What tempo did you use for away games?

[mr.rooney]

It's 5 (slow) for away, and for against the 3-3-2-1-1 (correct me if I'm wrong someone). Wouldn't that also mean I would have to turn down CF to 5 for away, as per mirroring in the first post?

[Guest Romie]

WWFan wel ive tested Tight Team Marking and Man Marking and well im not impressed because something is wrong with it.

Tight Marking in the team doesnt seem to be effective as it was in FM 06. Ive seen on numerous occasions that when the team is on tight marking they dont always mark tightly. Its like they do it once and then they stop doing it after. Similar to the set piece problems with the game.

Man Mark & Tight - This is worst Man Marking since FM was created in my view. Simply because my defenders get turned far to easily, they dont always man mark along with tight. Deespite me flirting with different levels of Closing Down. The CB and even the full back seem to drift away and leave huge gaps for the opposition midfielder or striker to have acres of space and score goals.

Its my players stop doing as ive instructed them too and just do what they want. As i said ive used many difference levels of CD and in tandem with low CF. But still the problem re occurs again and again. Its not like my defenders are crap either. Rio Ferdinand and Kompany in reality wouldnt get turned every time and loose they markers like the AI does to them in the game.

[mr.rooney]

Originally posted by wwfan:

I used two systems, a 4-2-3-1 a la Benitez (long farrowed wingers) and a 4-4-2 Diamond with sarrowed FCs and no farrows at all.

QUOTE]

The 4-2-3-1 is exactly the same as the away tactic, isn't it?

[PaddyPantsDown]

I would first like to thank wwfan for a very interesting read and the inspiration to try tweaking a tactic based around your teachings for the first time.

Being a Luton Town fan I decided to try to apply this theory to their team.

So what happened...

This is my Team so far

League Position

Results so far

As you can see its a pretty mixed bag so far but I put that down to the quality of the opposition and the ability of my players.

Luton are not a Chelsea and it has alot of weakness at the back which Im looking to rectify with drafting in good young talent.

But when Luton are allowed to attack with this tactic they can be devastating.

In conclusion I think with this tactic I can finish midtable and looking at the team of players I have...I think thats a success to be honest.

Here is the tactic I created. I would appreciate it if people gave it a go.

4-4-2 Diamond Attack V.1.tac

It may need tweaking with regards the style of play as I play more direct than most Premiership teams would need to.

I will post how I finished the 1st season when its done!

Thanks.

PaddyPantsDown

Update...

I got the sack on 18/03/07. Everything was going fine till I hit about halfway. Then my side collapsed. Scoring loads of goals but was conceding masses. Lots of goals conceeded from the kick off too. Back to the drawing board fro me.

[andysafc]

Well done wwefan! I'm sure many a person will build a tactic based around your ideas.

One qustion i would like to ask is...

I notice that you grade teams like LLM - Conference National and Regional and Lower L2.

Higher L2 through to poor Premier teams.

But is there not a difference in each division?

For example in each of the lower divisions right through to the Championship you have some teams that are stronger than the others within that division.

Should they try more passing because they have more ability? Or would you stick to Long/Direct passing?

[FourThreeThree]

Starting from the back, not literarily, is a good way of a framework because a framework first needs a base. Ignore attack altogether and design a defence mechanism that would get zero risk chances on your goal mouth. From there on work upwards putting one player at a time into a more attacking role.

[jaycar]

wwfan, unless I've missed it you've missed RWB, what are your thoughts on that?

[crazy gra]

Target Man Testing

I always used a target man in FM06 and played it ‘mixed’ to my lone ST in a 4-1-2-2-1 formation (the 1-2-2 part assembled as a DM, 2 MCs, an AMR and an AML). This worked really well for me as long as I had a striker who was very good in the air and with quite a bit of pace. In this test, I’m playing a flat 4-4-2 as I have been for most of playing the demo.

Game 1 (target man mixed): Result: 5-0. Toni started as the target man, but was injured so Smith replaced him after about 10 minutes. Ball played up to target most of the time to start of attacks with ball occasionally played to feet. First goal came from a foul on smith on edge of area when high ball was played to him. 3rd goal flicked by smith, free header just outside area, onto rooney in the area for easy chance.

Target man was often beaten in the air, so I played the game again, but this time had rooney as a target man ‘to feet’ to hopefully take out their effectiveness at the back in the air.

Game 2 (target man to feet): Result: 2-1. Used Rooney as the target man and balls were played to his feet quite a lot. This is effective with Rooney as the target man as he’s obviously very technical and strong so laid off plenty of balls to the other striker and the wingers to create chances. Playing with the target man ‘to feet’ didn’t start off as many moves by looking to involve the target man as much as mixed did. I think this is because with a ‘mixed’ target man, there is the option to play the ball in the air. As long as the target man is in position, then you should always be able to play the ball in the air to him, but ‘to feet’ would require an available pass to the target man to be on, and ‘run onto ball’ would require the target man to have space in front of him for the ball to be played there.

Game 3 (no target man): Result 3-0. Had Toni playing for the first hour upfront with Rooney and quite a few balls were to his head and created chances. He scored from a through ball and also a header from a cross from a cleared corner. Changed him for Solskjaer to see if high balls would still be played to the front line as much, and to my surprise they weren’t. I suppose this depends on your players having good decisions to know what ball to play.

Conclusions: Using a target man to ‘mixed’ or ‘to head’ when in need of a goal may be a good idea as other players always look to quickly play the ball up to the target man in the air, so this gets the ball moving quickly up to the forward line.

It could also be used during a game if you notice that you have an obvious advantage over your opponents i.e. either balls over the top are often putting a striker or winger through behind the defence; high balls are often getting flicked on to the other striker or winger; or at least one of your strikers is able to beat other players or make good chance-making passes frequently. In these cases it’d obviously need a target man to ‘run onto ball’, ‘to head’ and ‘to feet’ respectively, but as wwfan has said that using a target man limits attacking options, it should only be used when one kind of pass is proving particularly effective.

As I saw with no target man, decisions may help play the right ball to the forward line, so players with low decisions like in lower leagues may find it more effective to use a target man to simplify things.

I’ll continue to use no target man for the time being and see what effect that has over several games.

[neonlights]

Congrats WWFan - makes for a very interesting read indeed.

Unfortunately I can't offer anything constructive at present because I am currently without the game; I will certainly look at getting a copy over the weekend.

I would like to make the point though that, based entirely from my experiences on FM06, I think your conclusions in the whole Global mentality section might be slightly harsh. I notice that the notches you are using are very general like 5, 10 and 15, and I think that it is difficult to judge the whole theory of global mentality based just on these figures. The other thing is that I think a mixed global mentality is something that can be very effective; ie having the defence and attack as seperate units based on mentality, but perhaps having different mentalities for the midfielders to join the two. Anyway it is something I'll look into once I am a proud owner of the game.

Goodluck and ciao!

[Guest]

In away games there is a lot emphasis on counter-attacking moves that exploit the channels. At home the defensive line is deep but presses heavily. Away the defensive line is high but presses much less.

Does this mean you use counter attacking when playing away? At what point do you decide to use counter?

Home: Width 15 vs. Time Wasting 5

Away: Width 5 vs. Time Wasting 15

Creative Freedom versus Closing Down

With the changes to time wasting in 07 are you changing your theories on this? I would have thought 15 time wasting from the start of the game would lead to problems in 07?

NB: I only tried this system at home. For away games I went for CD of 5 across the board (CF as above system) with the exception of the MCd who remained at 15.

Are you saying that you use a CF of 15 for most of your players apart from your MCd away from home? (5 Closing Down so 15 CF as per your system)

Thanks dude,

Look fwd to hearing your responses,

The Hitman

[jornada]

The high time wasting is countered by the high tempo; i find that players tend to hug the touchline and corner flag when you reduce the tempo to near-zero.

[Guest]

Another question for you wwfan.

I am implementing your theory of CF/CD. My attacking players generally have high CF and low CD, and for defenders, high CD and low CF.

However, you mention one should consider lowing Closing Down for defenders when playing away or vs a high quality attacking team. How does this affect the CF? Since I would be reluctant to UP the CF of the defenders in line with lowering their CD.

And what of attackers? Aren't you of the idea that away from home attackers should press high up the pitch? However, going from your theory, the attackers have high CF, and so in turn, low CD.

So how would one implement a high pressing attack, low pressing defence with your theories?

Thanks in advance

[crazy gra]

i always like to have my strikers on 20 for CD, but in 07 as you can specify players to close down so i might try to put them on a low CD and always specify the team to close down the opposition keeper and DCs.

[chrcel]

wwfan,

thanks for your guides! They really make it much easier for dummies like myself.

cheers

[Olly Dickinson]

not sure if i mentioned it before, but good post wwfan.

i've been looking at team talks, one thing i've picked up on is using the "i have faith in you" option. a few good times to use it is if your starting a player in a bigger game than he's used to, or giving a youngster a chance. an example is Alan Smith was 2nd choice behind saha, and had only scored 1 in i think 5 starts and 8 subs. i gave him a chance in the CL against lyon and told him i had faith, he then played a 9 and got 2 goals. he looked good in the next game too.

[mr.rooney]

wwfan, just to make sure, it is tempo 5 and timewasting 5 against the 3-3-2-1-1 isn't it?

[Olly Dickinson]

i've got a few more ideas on team talks.

1) bit obvious but what you tell an individual has to match the team, don't tell someone you expect a performance if the rest of the team has been told to relax.

2) tell a player you expect a performance if you have a match plan where he's important, but don't over use it.

a good example is away to spurs, they are starting with mido as a lone striker, he could be dangerous so i've told my players to always close down and mark tightly, i also told Ferdinand i expect a performance from him. seemed to work a treat as he marked him out the game.

[mr.rooney]

wwfan, I’ve just created my first set of TT&F tactics using the above frameworks, and I’ve uploaded screenshots of the individual player’s and the team instructions. Could you please take a quick look at them and mention anything that needs changing?

Home Tactic:

Team Shape:

http://img306.imageshack.us/img306/8831/teamshapefj2.jpg

Team Instructions:

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/43/teamhe7.jpg

Goalkeeper:

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/1613/goalkeepercz9.jpg

Dl&DR:

http://img306.imageshack.us/img306/9044/dldrjm5.jpg

DC’s:

http://img348.imageshack.us/img348/2248/skf9.jpg

DMC:

http://img348.imageshack.us/img348/8231/dmcvn3.jpg

ML+MR:

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/6818/mlmrxt6.jpg

AMC:

http://img348.imageshack.us/img348/523/amckr9.jpg

FCd:

http://img284.imageshack.us/img284/1913/fcddm2.jpg

FCa:

http://img348.imageshack.us/img348/1417/fcaqg4.jpg

Away Tactic:

For this I’ve changed the width to 5, timewasting to 10, tempo to 5, and changed the d-line to 14, focused the passing down the flanks and clicked counter-attack. I’ve also changed the closing down of all defenders and DMC to 5.

3-3-2-1-1 Tactic:

This is the tactic designed to counter the 3-3-2-1-1 and other defensive formations. I’ve kept the tempo at 5 and put timewasting down to 5. I’ve upped the width to 15, focused the passing to mixed, and removed counter-attack. I’ve given the wingers long-farrows and the FB’s short farrows. I’ve also upped the closing down of all defenders and DMC to 15. I’ve also changed the d-line to 5.

4-2-3-1:

I’ve not made this yet, but isn’t this just the away tactic with two DMC’s and one FC?

Thanks for the help in advance.

[anarchoi]

Originally posted by mr.rooney:

3-3-2-1-1 Tactic:

This is the tactic designed to counter the 3-3-2-1-1 and other defensive formations. I’ve kept the tempo at 5 and put timewasting down to 5. I’ve upped the width to 15, focused the passing to mixed, and removed counter-attack. I’ve given the wingers long-farrows and the FB’s short farrows. I’ve also upped the closing down of all defenders and DMC to 15. I’ve also changed the d-line to 5.

4-2-3-1:

I’ve not made this yet, but isn’t this just the away tactic with two DMC’s and one FC?

Thanks for the help in advance.

amazing post by wwfan.

thanks to mr.rooney for summarizing things - im also trying to get a hold of this.

2 things : How to counter the 3-3-2-1-1 when playing at home and where does the 4-2-3-1 formation suddenly come from and what is it used for.

thanks

[PaddyPantsDown]

Team Instructions:

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/43/teamhe7.jpg

Doesnt Work

[mr.rooney]

Originally posted by PaddyPantsDown:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

Team Instructions:

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/43/teamhe7.jpg

Doesnt Work </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It should work, it works for me.

[anarchoi]

Works for me aswell.

Rooney - can u check my post above and answer my questions please?

[mr.rooney]

Originally posted by anarchoi:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mr.rooney:

3-3-2-1-1 Tactic:

This is the tactic designed to counter the 3-3-2-1-1 and other defensive formations. I’ve kept the tempo at 5 and put timewasting down to 5. I’ve upped the width to 15, focused the passing to mixed, and removed counter-attack. I’ve given the wingers long-farrows and the FB’s short farrows. I’ve also upped the closing down of all defenders and DMC to 15. I’ve also changed the d-line to 5.

4-2-3-1:

I’ve not made this yet, but isn’t this just the away tactic with two DMC’s and one FC?

Thanks for the help in advance.

amazing post by wwfan.

thanks to mr.rooney for summarizing things - im also trying to get a hold of this.

2 things : How to counter the 3-3-2-1-1 when playing at home and where does the 4-2-3-1 formation suddenly come from and what is it used for.

thanks </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You always play the same formation against the 3-3-2-1-1, whether your home your away. As for the 4-2-3-1, wwwfan mentioned it in his first relpy to my post:

I used two systems, a 4-2-3-1 a la Benitez (long farrowed wingers) and a 4-4-2 Diamond with sarrowed FCs and no farrows at all.

I'm presuming from that that the 4-2-3-1 is simply the away tactic with two DMC's and one FC.

Hope that helps.

[Hermanni]

Really nice guide and thank you for the effort. But I am having problems with these tactics. I used the tactics that mr.rooney displayed. I played over 10 games with West Ham and won only twice. Then I started with Newcastle and haven't won once in seven competition games. I even lost to Farul 0-2 at home! I don't even know which country they are from.

Main problem seems to be, that I don't score enough goals. I have to make some changes. Maybe more direct passing...

[anarchoi]

Wow Ive missed this completely - you play with "completely" different tactics home & away?

sorry but i need to understand this and my english isnt the best.

[wwfan]

It's difficult to manage this thread when I'm only able to access it at work, but, here goes.....

First off, single tactic systems! A few of you have built one tactic and, although having some success, haven't performed as well as you may have expected. A few hints for people in this situation:

Frameworks and Multi-Tactics

The mentality frameworks are the base settings for all tactics. However, to get the best out of the RoT systems you will need to build at least two tactics, one home and one away. When you have had a lot of success you will start having to employ the home tactic almost exclusively, but, until then, you will need to pick and choose between systems. In the opening post there are differences in the theorums section that must be applied between home and away systems. Playing a home system only, with a low manager reputation and a poorish side, will get you sacked. I would advise building three tactics, a home, a counter-attacking, and a shut up shop. Pick the right one depending on opposition and the results will start to fly in.

CD/CF

My CD/CF splits are based on the home/high closing down tactic. The CF can be regarded as standard for all tactics, but CD needs to be switched between home and away. High CD works against negative formations, low CD works against attacking formations. If you use high CD while playing a quality side away you will struggle. As for high CD attackers away from home; it may be a great idea and I know Rashidi has it working well. I don't use it but would love to hear about successful tests.

Counter-Attack

I didn't make it clear, but counter-attack should be ticked for away formations. It is counter-intuitive in that it doesn't mean your team will look to break at every opportunity, but, they will balance attacks between risk and reward, so won't go forward unless more obvious chances present.

Run With Ball

I also forgot to mention this. It is basically fairly intuitive. At home you can allow anybody, minus the DCs, freedom to run with the ball as long as they have the right stats. For away games, tone it down for the FBs and DMC.

Notes

It's interesting to see that a long-time RoTer (crazy gra) is having a similar degree of success in '07 as '06. The key for me is understanding when to do what, and because of the sheer volume of information I have written, that can be difficult. Key things to remember:

1: Build a home and away system, no matter which team you are managing. I generally used three systems, a standard home and two away tactics, a 4-2-3-1 which was quite counter-attacking with the wingers and the AMC, FC getting forward, and a more defensive 4-4-2 Diamond, which generally countered through the sarrowed FCs. I only began to employ the Ultra-Attacking as a system to counter the 3-3-2-1-1, so use it with care.

2: Because you have a poor reputation a lot of sides will attack you more than you may expect, so early on in the game, defensive or possession based tactics may be more effective.

3: Use excessive Time Wasting with caution, as its effectiveness has been toned down for '07. My 15-5 split may not work any more, so be careful.

4: High CF should ONLY be employed for the front 3. I have six players on CF of 5 or less (GK, DCs (3), FBs 5), DMC,MCd (5)), two on 10 (ML/R) and only three on 15 (MCa/AMC & FCs). High CF across the board DOES NOT work. CF is consistent home and away, no matter how you decide to employ CD.

5: Marking. I only advocate tight marking with the back 5, not across the board. It seems there may still be issues with man-marking, so be careful.

I hope that covers everything, and thanks for all the comments.

[Stephanie McMahon's Secret Lover]

At the moment there are certain things in FM07 that have me thinking about returning to FM06.

1) No-one is ever interested in any of my players unless they get listed. I have had this problem with FM for the last few seasons. Being told by MV that I have a nice stable squad does not impress me. Without players being bought and sold how the hell can you improve at Premiership level?

2) The reward for finally selling a player is finance going straight to increase capacity. Doesn't it occur to them to consult me a little first??? Obviously with contract expiring and the odd sale the squad is seriously weak, making season 2 impossible!!!

3) I am sick to death of dominating possession, shots, shots on goal, losing & then being told how "unlucky" we are! Better not buy a lottery ticket or I'll probably be the first to PAY THEM £8m!

4) Some tactical instructions clearly do not work well enough. Such as TIME WASTING! Not difficult eh but apparently putting time wasting on "often" leads to us taking throw-ins, corner, goal kicks etc immediately! SHORT corners apparently means hammer it so hard it goes straight out the other end for a throw-in.

5) Injuries - too many - too frequently and still quite often in the SAME POSITION. For instance, I had 2 centre backs out through injury so I went to call up reserves and guess what? Yep the best 3 centre backs were all injured!!! Don't get me started on sendings off!

6) How can a player get injured during a training session on a Saturday afternoon when he is AT THE GAME???

7) Suddenly towards to the end of season (and this has happened FOUR times so far) the team falls apart. Despite being the same squad, with high morale & apparently a very strong understanding not only starts to conceed at least 3 goals every game but also dominates these games! Inevitabley this leads to the SACK.

8) Training! Clearly does not work how it should. If I take the time to get the stars up etc all it does is keep the players at their current level. Yet if I leave it alone with every coach doing everything VOILA! Attributes increase.

Here's my latest game as an example. For this game I have TWO guys suspended for violent conduct and conveniently they re my only 2 right wingers (see what I mean?).: -

BOLTON 0-1 Portsmouth

Possession 54/46

Shots: 17-11

On target: 7-2

Action: 17/57/26

Fans criticise tactic??? Look at the stats you morons!

Apparently this time the excuse is made to rue missed chances. Clearly Anelka and Diouf have no idea where the net is.

[/rant]

[Jumbalumba]

I am having a little trouble understanding the numbers.

There are 20 positions for the sliders. Taking the furthest left position to be 1, the 'first' notch of little would be 6. The 'first' notch of often is 15 as you say.

Also, as there are 20 notches, 10 is not the centre, there is no centre. Yes, the notches are unevently distributed between the 10th and 11th notch making the 11th notch seem like the centre (again, taking the furthest left to be 1).

Now, I read mentioning of 0 CD, which would mean furthest left is 0. This would mean the first notch of little is 5 but first notch of often is 14 and it would only go up to 19.

Any clarifications?

[wwfan]

Originally posted by Jumbalumba:

I am having a little trouble understanding the numbers.

There are 20 positions for the sliders. Taking the furthest left position to be 1, the 'first' notch of little would be 6. The 'first' notch of often is 15 as you say.

Also, as there are 20 notches, 10 is not the centre, there is no centre. Yes, the notches are unevently distributed between the 10th and 11th notch making the 11th notch seem like the centre (again, taking the furthest left to be 1).

Now, I read mentioning of 0 CD, which would mean furthest left is 0. This would mean the first notch of little is 5 but first notch of often is 14 and it would only go up to 19.

Any clarifications?

Work on the premise of staying within the first notches (rarely vs. often). I usually work from the lowest setting being first notch rarely, the highest first notch often. I think I only diverge from that with DC CD, which is 3. Generally, start at the left and count the clicks.

[Asmodeus]

I've switched to RoT in my annual inaugural Arsenal game and it's paying off nicely. Pure global may still work, but the old Slider Apathy ideas just don't seem as cohesive as before, due to the slider changes I guess.

[Guest Bleed]

I have built my tactics around these ideas and have had great success with Spurs using a 4-4-2 diamond. I blew my entire transfer budget on Stuart Downning for the ML and managed to win the EPL by 6 points.

A couple of things I have noticed is in my away formation i was using a high DL as stated but this can be suicide against teams that have a very pacey attack (Arsenal). By dropping this by about 2-3 notches it seems to contain them a lot better.

Also turning off tight marking but having above average CD for the FB's against teams that have very good wingers seems to work well.

[Asmodeus]

Yeah I'm playing with a relatively deep defensive line (6) even though my most attacking midfielder is on 16 mentality.

Lot more defensively sound that way.

[Giantplaything]

Wow what a guide wwfan.

Must have taken ages to make

After I read this and some serious tinkering with my formation my team played loads better. I can now get results away from home.

Now I'm off to continue my unbeaten with the mighty Bognor Regis.

[acidmonkey]

great guide wwfan i agree multi-tactic systems are the way to go, just read over your thread and made a 4-4-2 for my sunderland side and played one game at home to barnsley now i know they aint world beaters but

Sunderland 3-0 Barnsley

Position: 54% - 46%

shots 15 -3

shots on target 8-0

shots off target 7-3

this is encouraging

[El Padre]

Ok, two things I've noticed so far with RoT

Keepers on a high mentality tend to run out and pick up the ball way outside thier box and end up conceeding 45 yard goals, and the strikers mentalitys may be a little too high, as I'm finding that theyre consistantly isolated from the rest of the team, which means that shooting opportunities are extremely limited throughout the 90 minutes.

Playing the diamond formation seems to leave a huge hole in midfield which teams exploit with absolute glee, and even with a solid DMC its (so far for me) a very weak formation.

[Bigwig]

I seem to have got myself into a complete mess this time round. My systems which worked in 06 aren’t working in 07 so I’ve had to re-jig things round.

Not so sure if this is because of a change in the system or if it’s just because player attributes have come down so my players aren’t suited to my previous systems.

My home and away tactics seem to have completely changed. I’m currently playing a fast direct game at home and a slow short game away. I’m tempted to fine tune them as I don’t think this is how I should be playing but I won the league in my first season so I’m terrified to change a winning formula.

[Asmodeus]

Originally posted by El Padre:

Ok, two things I've noticed so far with RoT

Keepers on a high mentality tend to run out and pick up the ball way outside thier box and end up conceeding 45 yard goals, and the strikers mentalitys may be a little too high, as I'm finding that theyre consistantly isolated from the rest of the team, which means that shooting opportunities are extremely limited throughout the 90 minutes.

I've noticed both of those things too. I simply think that the sliders work better this time; and the effects are more noticeable in the 2D engine.

[Robioto]

Brilliant topic. But what concerns me is that FM has come to the point to where the only way to do well is to look in to the game like this.

It feels like a practice program for hackers. I'm still struggling to enjoy FM ever since 01/02 it just doesn't fell like a management sim to me anymore. Anyway I will give it another go like all the others........

[jornada]

Originally posted by Robioto:

Brilliant topic. But what concerns me is that FM has come to the point to where the only way to do well is to look in to the game like this.

It feels like a practice program for hackers. I'm still struggling to enjoy FM ever since 01/02 it just doesn't fell like a management sim to me anymore. Anyway I will give it another go like all the others........

Not really. If you watch the entire game then you start to notice this stuff, it's not obvious to some or all at first but you just tinker tactics until you have something that works.

[El Padre]

Heres my take on the RoT tactic. - Rot Solid Home and away RAR

The MC's are set with darrows so the centre of the park isnt as bare as it can be when using a full diamond formation, meaning that when going forward, the MCd sits in the MC position, while the MCa shifts forward to AMC, and when defending the opposite happens, the MCa sits in the MC position, while the MCd pulls back into DMC.

The wingers are set with NO Farrows, to allow them to link up with the FB's a little more effectively.

Team instructions are as per RoT.

All in all its been quite solid for my Aberdeen side, I'm sitting top of the SPL, I'm holding my own against the better sides (Rangers, Celtic, Hearts and Hibs), and the overall flow of my team is good.

All in all RoT seems to be a very reasonable and logical system.

[wwfan]

It seems that people are beginning to get a degree of success now. I would be interested in hearing if those finding their strikers are isolated are doing either of the two following things:

1: Mentality split MCa 16, FCd 14, FCa 18

2: Long-farrowing wingers

I found that long farrowed wingers significantly improved home tactics. Mentality split as above worked fantastically well for counter attacking away games. As people are winning/have won The EPL with Spurs and the SPL with Aberdeen, plus an unbeaten run with Bognor Regis, there are signs that the frameworks hold water through all levels.

Thanks all for posting.

P.S. @ Robioto Once you have 'got' the game in terms of understanding exactly how and when to employ which systems, you will enjoy it more than any previous version. The learning curve is steep and I for one was hugely frustrated at first in '06. However, once I worked things out I had the most fun ever!

[El Padre]

Originally posted by wwfan:

It seems that people are beginning to get a degree of success now. I would be interested in hearing if those finding their strikers are isolated are doing either of the two following things:

1: Mentality split MCa 16, FCd 14, FCa 18

2: Long-farrowing wingers

I found that long farrowed wingers significantly improved home tactics. Mentality split as above worked fantastically well for counter attacking away games. As people are winning/have won The EPL with Spurs and the SPL with Aberdeen, plus an unbeaten run with Bognor Regis, there are signs that the frameworks hold water through all levels.

Thanks all for posting.

P.S. @ Robioto Once you have 'got' the game in terms of understanding exactly how and when to employ which systems, you will enjoy it more than any previous version. The learning curve is steep and I for one was hugely frustrated at first in '06. However, once I worked things out I had the most fun ever!

I've found that my strikers are actually not so isolated anymore after switching to the version of the tactic I posted above. It seems that the team moves more as unit when the ML and MR are not given farrows. Theyre linking up with the full backs and protecting each other, while allowing the whole team to move forward as one, so that by the time the ball is moved towards the front two, the space between them and the strikers is not such a problem.

I've also posted the tactic here - Clicky clicky

Give it a bash if you can and let me know what you think.

[eggyegg]

What an excellent thread wwe! It has made for some interesting reading. I have just started a season with West Ham and my results are as follows:

1-0 Sheff Utd home

1-0 Reading away

2-2 Aston Villa home (should have won this)

2-2 Newcastle away (lots of chances for both sides)

I have enjoyed tinkering with the tactics as I disliked just having one formation in previous fm's/cm's that was a so called super tactic.

I still don't think I have all the facets right that you have talked about i.e. I have only just realised for away matches, I need to have counter attack on.

I'l update you as my season unfolds (and pester you for advice!)

One question is there a aprticular shape when playing the 3-3-2-1-1?

[eggyegg]

Sorry to double post...

When your winning at home say 1 or 2 nil, do you change mentality/tempo down to 5? counter attack?

[Asmodeus]

Like EL Padre I've found that forward arrows have been fairly disruptive in my tactics so far. They seem more cohesive on individual mentaliities alone.

[frostrup71]

Thanks WW once again for a informative look into FM tactics.

However have created a few tactics based on your mentality / mirror instructions, some with success and some not..

But I allways run into the same problem. My players can't hit the f*** goal. Is there anyway I can improve their hit rate by adjusting some of the sliders?

[El Padre]

Originally posted by frostrup71:

Thanks WW once again for a informative look into FM tactics.

However have created a few tactics based on your mentality / mirror instructions, some with success and some not..

But I allways run into the same problem. My players can't hit the f*** goal. Is there anyway I can improve their hit rate by adjusting some of the sliders?

Thats probably more an issue of training rather than your tactic.

[kevinhinnells]

Originally posted by Asmodeus:

Like EL Padre I've found that forward arrows have been fairly disruptive in my tactics so far. They seem more cohesive on individual mentaliities alone.

I have found that barrows work very well. For example when placed in and AMR, an arrow back to MR will get the player behind the ball when oppo is in possesion.

-K