David Kempshall

A Message On Football Manager 2012 Activation

4,165 posts in this topic

It seems like the only way to play this game without steam is by waiting for the pirated version..

I really hope that the one time steam activation will combat piracy, but do you have any figures that prove that steam activated games are less pirated? To me the decision seems to be more based on nudging us towards the use of steam. I would not at all be surprised if Steam pays you guys for the extra signed up members, because everyone who downloads steam will see the ads. This makes the decision perfectly logical, but hardly made out of security reasons.

These are just my 2 cents and I may be completely wrong, but a quick search shows that all the popular Steam titles are available on the common torrent websites and makes me doubt that the nuisance for paying customers is worth it.

  • On a completely different note: When (And I say when because I will buy it) I activate my CD through steam, does that mean that I no longer have to play with the CD?

Yup, once a game is activated on steam you can take play the game without a CD in the drive.

Another positive for the use of steam which many dont know about.

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Bertie BG - "More people play the game pirated each year than do legally." - Complete crap, now SI are even resorting to bull to try to wriggle out of this one.

It's true. Whether you believe me or not that's your prerogative, but that doesn't take away from the fact that it's the honest truth.

As was mentioned in the opening post. If a quarter of people who pirate the game instead buy it then our sales would over double. Piracy is a huge problem for Football Manager.

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So why spend X amount of £'s making CD/DVD's of the game when after the inital activation they are basically useless? Did a 4 year old think this system through?

Because some people still like being able to install via CD/DVD?? not really rocket science. This is really not the end of the world

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Without stating the flipping obvious mate, most of us have mobile phones!

What kindof phone do you have?

EDIT: That looks off-topic, you can connect some phones to your PC/Laptop and there-by connect the PC/Laptop to the internet.. meaning you can get steam and spend 5 mins activating it then set it to offline mode.

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So why spend X amount of £'s making CD/DVD's of the game when after the inital activation they are basically useless? Did a 4 year old think this system through?

It's ideal for me - means I can install the game without it destroying my download limit.

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No overreaction here and no hysterics. I just don't want Steam on my computer. I've installed it before, didn't like it and have never installed it since. In this day and age, it is nice to have a choice to be honest. I don't like having to pay my hard earned money for a game then be told I have to install a piece of Software I don't want, to be able to play it.

I've bought every single game this company has produced and even bought extra copies when i've been stupid enough to lose a copy. Piracy?

You've just lost a customer.

consumer choice is what has been sacrificed by the media/entertainment industry in their bid to chase increased profits... i mean... pirates... my bad

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I'am thinking about not getting the game now. So we have to have use steam with the disc. Sorry absoulte joke.

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Firstly, as has already been stated no money changed hands with Steam. We're using them because we feel they offer the best system for combating piracy that is currently available.

To answer your question. Once activated through Steam you won't need the CD any more.

Fair enough, thank you for your answer =). I suppose the sad and hard fact is that piracy is winning the battle, also over the backs of paying customers =(

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So why spend X amount of £'s making CD/DVD's of the game when after the inital activation they are basically useless? Did a 4 year old think this system through?

And if everybody needs internet access and Steam to activate anyway, people may aswell just buy it through steam. Are you sure you havent taken any money off Steam?

Because retail is still the most popular way of buying the game and, as many people have mentioned in this thread, they prefer to own the boxed copy. It's just, thanks to Steam and other digital providers, not necessarily the only way of doing things any more.

EDIT: As Ackter has just pointed out (beat me this time :p), it also means that people with capped download limits don't have to download the whole game.

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I trust that everyone who has indicated they have breached the EULA will be banned from the forum, if SI are going to rightly take a strong stance on the issue of piracy they might aswell start staright away.

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Yes because 19,853 is a massive amount of sales isnt it :rolleyes:

Did I say it was? That is just the people using Steam with FM11 right now if you looked. Hundreds of thousands of copies have been sold on Steam, and that is a massive amount of sales.

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If you game on the PC you better get use to STEAM. It is fast becoming a very popular piece of software that developers/publishers are using. Ive got it installed and have never had any problems with it. The amount of PC games in stores on the high street are also at there lowest ever, so this makes perfect sence for SI. Bring on 21st October I say!

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I trust that everyone who has indicated they have breached the EULA will be banned from the forum, if SI are going to rightly take a strong stance on the issue of piracy they might aswell start staright away.

I find it a bit harsh if they start banning people for sharing copies between family. Who hasn't done that with a game before?

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No overreaction here and no hysterics. I just don't want Steam on my computer. I've installed it before, didn't like it and have never installed it since. In this day and age, it is nice to have a choice to be honest. I don't like having to pay my hard earned money for a game then be told I have to install a piece of Software I don't want, to be able to play it.

I've bought every single game this company has produced and even bought extra copies when i've been stupid enough to lose a copy. Piracy?

You've just lost a customer.

The reason we didn't go Steam only in previous years is because we didn't think it was good enough at the time. It's improved though, a lot, and we do think it's good enough now so I really would encourage giving it another go (perhaps install FM11 through it for a week or two?) before you decide. If you don't like it, uninstall it - no harm done.

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What kindof phone do you have?

EDIT: That looks off-topic, you can connect some phones to your PC/Laptop and there-by connect the PC/Laptop to the internet.. meaning you can get steam and spend 5 mins activating it then set it to offline mode.

I have a galaxy s2, and yes i can tether the phone and use the internet connection but as I live in a rural area i have a shocking data connection also, but thanks for the advice :) (Y)

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Dear Si/Sega,

As a long standing customer I feel the need to make you aware of my stance on this. I will not under any circumstances be forced into downloading steam and activating the game via that method. Every year I have bought the game from a local store and I feel that is sufficient. Whilst I understand you may want to protect your game against piracy you are in fact punishing loyal customers.

Is there no middle ground here?

Why can't you have a standalone SI activation system? well for me the answer is staring everyone in the face. It would take too much effort to implement and you would rather assume customers will be ushered into using steam like brainless sheep. I'm sure I'm not the only person who feels insulted by this move. An outrage is about the only description I can offer at this stage. There are several methods SI could look at but this is the easy option.

As I have already mentioned, I will not be forced into using steam.

To make this as clear as possible I will not be purchasing the game this year if there is a requirement to install steam. It's really that simple. I have only read the opening post but I know that many other people feel the same. How do I know this? well the above points have been mentioned several times by many users during previous releases. This is yet another example of SI saying they will take the customers views on board but actually doing whatever they want.

Today is a new low for SI. Every customer who doesn't use steam currently should boycott the game in my opinion. SI and Sega have made it obvious that the only thing they actually care about is money. So the only way a customer can communicate a view is by defining SI and Sega a much valued sale. A decrease in sales compared to 2011 would be absolutely amazing.

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you cant use an Ipod unless you have the internet and use Itunes, i dont see anyone kicking up a huge fuss over that.

But there is a million other great mp3 playing alternatives to the ipod, there really isnt an alternative to FM!

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Yup, once a game is activated on steam you can take play the game without a CD in the drive.

Another positive for the use of steam which many dont know about.

Thanks Siven, I do know about it but simply LOVE playing with the CD stuck in my laptop =D

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Steam is awesome, I use it every day. I like having all my games on there, it's convenient and makes updating straight forward as there's no need to faff about downloading from external sites and running installers

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Don't you remember what happened when they used horrible DRM and had an activiation code?

1) the DRM servers were attacked by anti-DRM protestors and less savoury types.

2) They used the worst activation code font in the history of activation codes that no one could read.

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My questions might have been overlooked.. so I try by posting them again. Maybe you can shed some light on these ones. Sorry for being so impatient (take it as a sign I'm really interested in the game).

* Will this Steam-measure affect users in 'illegal' countries, e.g. Germany? I'm not even allowed to view FM-videos(!) on Steam because I'm based in Germany... but if I get a DVD copy of FM12, it would work, right?

* Also: Will the game get updated via Steam or will there be the usual boxed patches? Might be another issue.. I know I can turn out auto updates, but would I be stuck with v12.0.0 then?

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Bertie,

I appreciate your stance and i'm not going to get into a discussion about it. I respect your opinion as an employee of SI and a fellow gamer. It's really simple. I don't want a third party piece of software on my computer, especially not Steam, and If I have to install it to play a particular game I will simply not buy the game.

I genuinely wish SI all the best for the future if they are going down this road.

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Software like STEAM is the future, better get on the digital wagon.

Ive used STEAM for some years now, and I havent received bad/intrusive mails, phonecalls, knocks on my door late at night, nor suspicious PC behaviour.

STEAM is not the work of Satan, so please try it out eh?

Have to agree. I'm sure many idealists on here lament the entertainment industry for failing to adapt to new trends and technology; those record companies and movie studios that have battled and continune to battle the download phenomena. The games industry has actually adapted technology in a positive way and we're fighting it!

If you want to play music or watch a movie on your computer you need a player - and I'm sure a lot of people don't use the default players that come with their OS. And sometimes you need to download extra codecs to play these files. Downloading Steam to play a game is not that much different. I never wanted to do it as I liked the physical disc. But when I moved to the US the easiest way to get the game was to go digital. And it works fine. I click 'start in offline mode' when I start the game and that's it. I'm not aware of Steam even running on my computer.

- 9lives

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We had to activate 09 on steam, and I imagine it was quick and smooth for a majority of people, so I'm amazed that there's such a fuss now. I'm normally an 'if the old ways work fine, why try the new way?' guy, shopping in person with cash and things like that, which is why I didn't use steam when I didn't need to for 10 and 11 (which was good for the latter as I dodged the bullet of the 11.2 patch messing up games with Poland loaded, as I could choose to install when the fix was out and not be stuck with the earlier version), but aside from '0' and 'O' looking the same on the activation code, I guessed which was which correctly first time and despite inevitably being a little unsure how it would go, using steam for the first time, it was simple. Recently used it again for the first time since, for Civ V, and having it 'offline' nearly all the time, it's been just as simple a process to activate and that's it, it's hardly been a burden to carry on my laptop even with such infrequent usage, and while there may be problems for some people, which is unfortunate, actually activating online is hardly a massive hurdle to fear.

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Shopto.net are selling the game as a digital download, does this mean that I will get the code to redeem via Steam and download it through Steam?

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I'll just wait for the FM12 version of this thread cos it's the only way I'll buy the game now

You'll probably have to wait forever.. :)

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So...after reading 4 pages of posts, I've come to realize that some people like Steam and some do not. Nothing I didn't know before. Any method, any application for the reason of security and intellectual rights protection will have its supporters and detractors. However, after the first...maybe 5 posts, nothing really new has been posted. Having this post around and stickied is good for people to learn about new measures, but all this has become is Wakers called people names simply because people do not agree with his opinion. I'm sure that was not the point of the OP. Time to lock this. Provide the info and let people rant somewhere else.

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It's true. Whether you believe me or not that's your prerogative, but that doesn't take away from the fact that it's the honest truth.

As was mentioned in the opening post. If a quarter of people who pirate the game instead buy it then our sales would over double. Piracy is a huge problem for Football Manager.

Can you provide us with the report into those results? Very interested into how that conclusion came to be. I am not saying it's true or not true, but I always like to see facts rather than rely on one person's statement.

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No overreaction here and no hysterics. I just don't want Steam on my computer. I've installed it before, didn't like it and have never installed it since. In this day and age, it is nice to have a choice to be honest. I don't like having to pay my hard earned money for a game then be told I have to install a piece of Software I don't want, to be able to play it.

I've bought every single game this company has produced and even bought extra copies when i've been stupid enough to lose a copy. Piracy?

You've just lost a customer.

I think they'll survive the loss of you :)

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I've never read any solid evidence to suggest that piracy actually increase sales of anything. At best any evidence behind it that I've seen has always been circumstantial. It's certainly not the case with Football Manager though.

More people play the game pirated each year than do legally. To say that piracy helps sales when that's the case is just rubbish. Piracy is illegal and it threatens the continuation of any creative product including FM.

FM selling more games is to the benefit of those who buy the game legally as well. The more we sell, the more is invested into the studio and the more progress we can make with each iteration.

Well it seems that the anime definitely sells better because of piracy.

The Japanese say so http://www.rieti.go.jp/en/publications/summary/11010021.html

If you learn japanese you can check out their elaborate .pdf file on the matter.

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Shopto.net are selling the game as a digital download, does this mean that I will get the code to redeem via Steam and download it through Steam?

I'm not sure of the specifics with Shopto but I'd imagine you'd be able to download it through them but still need to activate the game through Steam in order to play it.

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Bertie,

I appreciate your stance and i'm not going to get into a discussion about it. I respect your opinion as an employee of SI and a fellow gamer. It's really simple. I don't want a third party piece of software on my computer, especially not Steam, and If I have to install it to play a particular game I will simply not buy the game.

I genuinely wish SI all the best for the future if they are going down this road.

Is there a reason you are so against downloading a small program, which uses very little resources, other than out of pig headed stubbornness to change?

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Well here was me thinking that this forum was full of level headed people. Evidently not.

I've just read every single post above and it leaves me disheartened quite frankly. As Neil said, if you're alienated by a small piece of software (which actually helps you rather than hinders you) then don't buy the game.

I'll buy two copies to make up for some of the idiots on here.

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Don't you remember what happened when they used horrible DRM and had an activiation code?

1) the DRM servers were attacked by anti-DRM protestors and less savoury types. - I was one of the lucky ones who activated within 5 minutes on day 2

2) They used the worst activation code font in the history of activation codes that no one could read. - Not our fault, SI should have proof checked before mass publication

+10 characters

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My questions might have been overlooked.. so I try by posting them again. Maybe you can shed some light on these ones. Sorry for being so impatient (take it as a sign I'm really interested in the game).

I'm afraid you're stuffed but that's thanks to EA & the rather agressive German laws on the licencing issue.

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Apologies about claiming steam would only allow 1 game open at once, but in the past i've tried with a few games only been told to close one of them first, so it must have changed, or only be with games on the same engine.

Either way though, to claim the move is to prevent piracy will be pretty ridiculous when on day 1 people are playing it for free, and if SI allow you to pre-load the game then most likely earlier than release

Upsetting :(

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I'll just wait for the FM12 version of this thread cos it's the only way I'll buy the game now

You'll never get it.

Sega as a company has moved to steam as it's DRM/Digital Distribution method.

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Dont you think SI and Sega have done lots of calculations before making this decision? - Many FM'ers already use Steam and perhaps many pirates will actually buy the game now and then the loss of those who do not wish to use steam may be ignored..

IMO this is a smart decision of SI to at least try it out to see if it helps. They have to do something and IMO Steam is a good option to choose. If you disapprove, then dont buy FM2012.. :)

You have clearly forgotten the 2008 release day debacle. Your line about not buying the game is pathetic by the way (only 1 step removed from "go play FIFA", "wens da demo owt" or "wot taktix werks") however I would like to say that I will buy the game on day one, I am looking forward to it that much however I am dreading the activation (due to the 2008 experience).

Maybe SI can assure us that the game will be labelled with a very large clear warning that internet access is required to play the game, rather than as a footnote in small print. Maybe SI can confirm 100% that the 2008 issues (we all know what caused them) cannot happen this year. Of course SI cannot do the latter because by involving activation like this they are leaving the back door unlocked to the kind of "Terrorists" that attacked the servers back then.

As for Steam, unless I completely Uninstall I get it popping up lots when I dont want it to (may be in part a Vista issue but Steam is the source of the problem, so here I am having to install 3rd party software I already cannot wait to completely remove again.

Yesterday I felt like an excited customer looking forward to 21/10/11, now I feel like a mug punter, to be honest.

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Right, if you're just going to start calling each other names I'm going to be deleting the posts.

Please try and remain civil, we can discuss this issue without resorting to petty name-calling.

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So what happens if many of us decide not to buy the game this year? Will that help your piracy problems too? We need to take a stand here guys.

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So what happens if many of us decide not to buy the game this year? Will that help your piracy problems too? We need to take a stand here guys.

Enjoy taking your petty little stand against a non-issue. Keep making up your little Steam stories, when the truth is it works fine for 30 million users.

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My only question is are you guys at SI aware just how feeble a protection Steam is? As illustrated here it clearly earns the ire of some of your customers, but the game will still be pirated through false steam platforms. If it is genuinely the case that more people pirate it than buy it, this is even less effective than a DRM system. On various gaming communities links will be up and guides will be up to provide people with the workaround. To give an example Brink had no proper offline gameplay, but was still hugely pirated for online play a mate of mine making fun of me for bothering to get it on the 360 when it was so easily available on PC for free. Basically all it required was a download and 2 or 3 dll files dropping into the steam installation and you could connect online.

DLL files at best will take a minute to download, it is no deterrent. It doesn't affect me, I assume I'll be able to activate my copy when it gets sent out but it seems like someone has been told something that clearly isn't true. I'd never condone or supporting pirating games but at the same time I won't pretend I'm oblivious to it happening, when involved heavily in discussing gaming, computer parts and overclocking there will always be the flipside where people promote the piracy and make it as easily accessible on a 'How to play X, Y, Z' as a 'How to overclock X, Y, Z" guide. If money (especially a sizable amount) is being spent on this then its largely money being thrown away, as I said before it will at best delay the torrents by a couple of days.

If anything like last year people will be able to pirate it a full week before it goes on sale.

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SEGA will regret this decision, I'm afraid. I honestly think they will turn many of their regular costumers to piracy. Instead of tackling the problem, they'll make it bigger. A very, very bad decision.

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On a related note: Will there be Steam Cloud integration this year? I suspect not but I would absolutely love that.

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This could be as bad as FM 09 or worse.

Or, shock and horror, maybe not that bad.

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