David Kempshall

A Message On Football Manager 2012 Activation

4,125 posts in this topic

[quote name='pigfacemonkeyman']Post #3991, Page 40. :thup:[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]Tiger - the issue is there's an abundant amount of posts saying "Steam sucks".

And nobody saying what they think "sucks". It gets into a debate about civil liberties and being forced to install 3rd party software. None of which is anything new on computers. You buy a computer, your first 3rd Party software is the Operating System, Windows or Mac. You then have an internet client, a music client, a video client, etc. and now a game client.

Yeh SI and Sega went with Steam. But in the first post they said it was their best option and forewent anything for FM10 or FM11 until an acceptable solution was presented to them. They've spent 2 or 3 years on this and figuring out the best option for them AND their customers. And they also said the decision was not made lightly. I take that there was absolute war and battles happened over this in the meetings.

At the end of the day, it's what we all have to work with. We're all in the same boat. We all have to get it working.

I'm advocating that any one with issues should really post about what their exact issue is, either here or on the Steam forums. If you don't want to use Steam - then fine. Announce your disposition with DRM and your unwillingness to buy the game. If you're refusing to buy the game because of Steam related issues, I can only urge people to post the exact issue, and contact the support teams already in place, or visit their forums.

It's black and white for me. If you want to play FM12 you need Steam and Internet. If you don't want to install Steam you can't play FM12. And if you don't have the internet you'll have to figure out a way to get it to Authenticate the game, switch to offline mode and enjoy FM12, or else you won't be able to buy it. It's marked clearly on the box "internet connection necessary". Anyone that hasn't got Internet can't download it anyway. Anyone buying it in the shop will see the warning on the front of the box and can say "I don't have internet that game is not for me".


Regards to all the people saying "Steam is great and I have no issues" that's simply because they see all the negativity portrayed by people that have a problem with Steam before they even download or try it out or have downloaded it and can't get it to work and refuse to try and fix it but rather complain instead. [/QUOTE]

i think your mistaken :)
you were looking at post 3988

[QUOTE]I'm sorry, clearly I didn't phrase it the way I meant. I don't mean "It's better than it used to be" so much as I mean "It used to be bad. Now it is good."
And I'm simply saying that people are acting like SI made some horrible decision without thought. I'm simply saying that they probably gave it a lot of thought and decided that of all of the alternatives, Steam was the one that provided the best pro:con ratio.

I am not defending Steam blindly. I am defending Steam with, what I feel are reasonable arguments. I'm sorry that you disagree and think I'm being a blind fan, but the last issue that I've ever had with Steam was the fact that Bioshock didn't unlock (I'd preordered it) until almost the next day... something that turned out to have been 2K's decision. That was about four years ago now. The legitimate argument I -am- hearing from people is that people don't like digital DRM systems. I completely agree that they aren't fun, but I also think they are necessary and have proven time and time again to delay, or reduce piracy. A single online activation is not "treating everyone like a criminal". It's just a simple nod that they're asking for. I don't think it's that much to ask (that said, I refused to buy Ubisoft games or Diablo 3 (when it comes out) because I think those games have crossed the barrier to causing the consumer experience serious harm with their anti-piracy measures. I'm not pro-evil-DRM, but I think that a single online activation isn't asking much... and I'll repeat... a lot of people beg developers to add Steamworks to their games and games often find that the Steam version sells more because people enjoy the benefits... This is not a DRM system without it's benefits.)
Steam is not perfect. It sucks to have to activate online at all, but it's a two second thing that you were -always- going to have to do with one system or another. I have experienced the classic "Game is not available" error on Steam and it sucks, but I have not had it in years now.

I guess I'm just saying that people don't act like Steam is a big evil decision that SI made. It's a decision made with customers as their first priority. If not, there are far worse DRM systems they could've used that stop piracy a lot better. [/QUOTE]

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[quote name='Carrottop']It was me who said that actually. And... Yeah, you make a good point. I think that drawing the line at "a single one time activation" or "installing a service that provides a lot of additional benefits (even if I don't care about them, they will be useful to a lot of people)" seems to be pushing it to extreme... especially seeing as these people were fine with the activation we had last year...[/QUOTE]

[quote name='milnerpoint']i think your mistaken :)
you were looking at post 3988[/QUOTE]

You are both right and I apologise to Eugene Tyson. My original mistake was missing out a chunk of my post that referred to the second quote, and my second was not checking properly when the original was pointed out, and for this I would like to apologise to Carrottop.:o

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Just pre-ordered on Steam. I had never used Steam before FM 09 and have bought about 15-20 games since on Steam constantly looking at their sales.

I some people do have issues, but I for one have nothing but praise for it.

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[quote name='Carrottop']It was me who said that actually. And... Yeah, you make a good point. I think that drawing the line at "a single one time activation" or "installing a service that provides a lot of additional benefits (even if I don't care about them, they will be useful to a lot of people)" seems to be pushing it to extreme... especially seeing as these people were fine with the activation we had last year...[/QUOTE]
Thing is, FM doesn't have to be exclusively availible on Steam to be availible through Steam. Those additional benefits that other people are going to be given are a totally irrelevant point, because people could chose to have them anyway.

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[quote name='viiralx']Steam Guard. nuff said.

Unless they hack your email to nobody can get into your account.[/QUOTE]

So, I take it that you don't have a g-mail account? :D

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A point raised in podcast 3, journalists have a preview version of the game. Assuming (but I may be wrong) that this is pretty much the demo then surely they were issued on trust only, so in theory if a journo sold it to a pirate they could get a cracked version out very soon.If that is a realistic scenario and if that happens all this DRM extravaganza will have been in vain.

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[quote name='viiralx']Was that some kind of snide remark at google's secuirty. you guys are just silly.[/QUOTE]

Hey, I was just trying to lighten the air - things have been getting so serious lately. Anyway the pro-side has really done enough to convince me to repent! Except my public announcement I am about to broadcast in the link below:

I REPENT: [url]http://youtu.be/6cjqkkxWG3o[/url]

Please take note on the emailing part, because it comes from the bottom of my heart!

P.S. (lighten up pal...) ;)

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[quote name='viiralx']Steam Guard. nuff said.

Unless they hack your email to nobody can get into your account.[/QUOTE]

So Steam Guard is 100% infallible to Joe Bloggs who uses the same password for everything?

No.

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To be fair, the email associated with a particular Steam account is not displayed anywhere before you log in, so unless it's someone you know they wouldn't know which email to target.

That being said, no system is infallible. Security-consciousness is, as always, advised.

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for anyone worried, the only information that steam actually takes from your computer is info about steam(unlike EA's origin). You don't have to worry about them peeking at everything else on your computer. It only looks at your steam habits, and even then, I believe you can opt out of it.

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[quote name='tigerhgrrrrrr']A point raised in podcast 3, journalists have a preview version of the game. Assuming (but I may be wrong) that this is pretty much the demo then surely they were issued on trust only, so in theory if a journo sold it to a pirate they could get a cracked version out very soon.If that is a realistic scenario and if that happens all this DRM extravaganza will have been in vain.[/QUOTE]

Not unless they have to play their demo copy through steam ;)
The hack is not FM its self, its hacking the steam client to bypass the DRM.

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[quote name='milnerpoint']Not unless they have to play their demo copy through steam ;)
The hack is not FM its self, its hacking the steam client to bypass the DRM.[/QUOTE]

Which, of course, is simply not possible. No games on Steam are hacked or pirated... ;)

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[quote name='tigerhgrrrrrr']A point raised in podcast 3, journalists have a preview version of the game. Assuming (but I may be wrong) that this is pretty much the demo then surely they were issued on trust only, so in theory if a journo sold it to a pirate they could get a cracked version out very soon.If that is a realistic scenario and if that happens all this DRM extravaganza will have been in vain.[/QUOTE]

I would have thought that there would be a digital signature that SI/Sega can use to track who originally had the journalist preview and take the appropriate action. I doubt that most hackers could find and fix that; after all in previous pirated versions of FM there were deliberate errors that cropped up in them, like wrong clubs in the wrong continental competitions, that the hackers didn't find and fix.

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I know alot of you guys are scared to death about this whole piracy issue, probably the sales pitch that Steam used on Miles. Pulling out figures on (general) global piracy probably freaked the crap out of him especially when Steam was ramming the ammount of money SI/SEGA was missing out on (based on statistics). They just seemed to forget to tell him that most pirating happens in places where the consumer simply can't afford it (even if you put a gun to their heads)...

Miles: "You can stop the piracy and we can make extra buck?"

Steam: "Yeah, of course we can.... well, almost at least... We can delay it for you, just check out this graph..." (also known as the 'peek-a-boo' trick)

I used to sell silk boxer-shorts, and I could convince you that buying those shorts were just about the best thing that could happen to you...

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True Loversleaper ...

Another question also : How can Direct2drive, GamersGate, Metaboli, Nexway and Co can tolerate that ???

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Loversleaper I admire your dedicating in exposing the faults in Steams process but it's wasted in this thread, people will decide on there own merit if this decision was a wise one on Sega's part, but they will lose people like me who has been a long term buyer since 1992.

People who pirate games will still do so no matter what precautions these gaming companies take, all it has done is alienate those who have been loyal and have bought the game legit.

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[quote name='cynet']Loversleaper I admire your dedicating in exposing the faults in Steams process but it's wasted in this thread, people will decide on there own merit if this decision was a wise one on Sega's part, but they will lose people like me who has been a long term buyer since 1992.

People who pirate games will still do so no matter what precautions these gaming companies take, all it has done is alienate those who have been loyal and have bought the game legit.[/QUOTE]

I may suggest that next year they do not release an FM13 game at all, not because it is an unlucky number but because no game at all = (guarantees) zero pirated copies. The SI/Sega Strategy Reich can then slap each others backs until they are sore and have a party if they so wish.

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[quote name='tigerhgrrrrrr']I may suggest that next year they do not release an FM13 game at all, not because it is an unlucky number but because no game at all = (guarantees) zero pirated copies. The SI/Sega Strategy Reich can then slap each others backs until they are sore and have a party if they so wish.[/QUOTE]

To be honest Sega have had a very bad year with regards to profits, they actually lost millions through bad games and poor marketing.

SI should be concerned with Sega as a licence promoter because in truth they are a company in dire straits making dire decisions.

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[quote name='cynet']Loversleaper I admire your dedicating in exposing the faults in Steams process but it's wasted in this thread, people will decide on there own merit if this decision was a wise one on Sega's part, but they will lose people like me who has been a long term buyer since 1992.

People who pirate games will still do so no matter what precautions these gaming companies take, all it has done is alienate those who have been loyal and have bought the game legit.[/QUOTE]

You are correct in all aspects of this post, I know it's all in vain and that is why my last 5-6 posts have changed a little in tone (having a little more fun with it). The gamming industry is still quite 'young' compared to many other business's so they naturally think a little differently - and they think the money/lawyers can change the world. Good business has elements that seem to evade the gamming industry, as I have said a few times: movies/tv, music and clothes are being copied an'masse. Take Armani for example or Luis V, they are being copied all the time - and with incredible ease no matter what precautions they take. Are they going out of business? Do they come out and express self pity? No, they rely on good marketing/distibution - these people are experts in making a brand and stay on top of the game - things that the gamming industry has seemed to have missed out on. Cracking down on the loyal customers seems to be their mantra, which in it's deepest form is a sign of 'not knowing any better'...

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[quote name='cynet']To be honest Sega have had a very bad year with regards to profits, they actually lost millions through bad games and poor marketing.

SI should be concerned with Sega as a licence promoter because in truth they are a company in dire straits making dire decisions.[/QUOTE]

SI should not worry about stability, the loyal fanbase will keep the FM series viable in business for a while yet. They may want to worry about bad decisions being forced or pressured upon them though. So Sega & SI is not the dream marriage it was originally painted to be - quelle suprise! At least the match engine footballers are not a load of Sonic the Hedgehog's -yet! Miles would do a videoblog on why that is a good move though, dont worry.

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[quote name='tigerhgrrrrrr']SI should not worry about stability, the loyal fanbase will keep the FM series viable in business for a while yet. They may want to worry about bad decisions being forced or pressured upon them though. So Sega & SI is not the dream marriage it was originally painted to be - quelle suprise! At least the match engine footballers are not a load of Sonic the Hedgehog's -yet! Miles would do a videoblog on why that is a good move though, dont worry.[/QUOTE]

Someone at Sega thought Sonic the hedgehog was still fun to play, but sadly nobody told the guy that was 1991 and not 2011 :p

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[quote name='cynet']Someone at Sega thought Sonic the hedgehog was still fun to play, but sadly nobody told the guy that was 1991 and not 2011 :p[/QUOTE]

The same ones that thought the DRM chastity belt would become a much loved fashion accessory for the "wearers"

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Could somebody come up with something original and on topic please, this thread has once again descended to a level which would get most threads closed and quite a few people infracted for trolling/spamming etc.

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latest steam update, now has finally started working on my Mac :) Roll on FM12,

any idea how to turn off the ad's it pops up?

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Fairly sure its the tickbox under settings that says:

Notify me with steam instant messages about additions or changes to my games, new releases and upcoming releases.

Hope that helps.

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Not original but important I think.
[quote name='Kriss'][B]A Steam FAQ is being prepared (nearly complete I understand[/B]) it may be they wanted to see what came from this thread so they could make it as complete as possible in relation to FM12, [/QUOTE]
So, 6 days later, any news on this?

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[quote name='pigfacemonkeyman']Not original but important I think.

So, 6 days later, any news on this?[/QUOTE]
Been here for a few days.

[url]http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/156429-Steam-Problems-FAQ-and-Basic-Crash-Troubleshooting[/url]

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[quote name='Dune297']Been here for a few days.

[url]http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/156429-Steam-Problems-FAQ-and-Basic-Crash-Troubleshooting[/url][/QUOTE]

Yes, that is there, and the OP of that year old thread posted of it's existance 2 days ago. That has nothing to do with an official SI Steam FAQ. So, Kriss, any news on this?

Cheers
xxx

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[quote name='Dune297']Been here for a few days.

[url]http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/156429-Steam-Problems-FAQ-and-Basic-Crash-Troubleshooting[/url][/QUOTE]

And just when you didn't think the entertainment could get any better... ;)

But on a serious note, I wish that I had stumbled on this thread earlier. I honestly didn't know that it existed because something like this is really needed, if I didn't see the link it would have gone un-noticed, for me at least. Well worth a sticky somewhere more visible, maybe even make a pamphlet that could go with the game.

Good stuff, Aim_less! :)

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I hardly ever post, but this is a prime example of the failed logic behind the piracy numbers.
Using made-up numbers, SI is assuming that they'll sell a million copies through normal channels, and a million copies will be pirated. Their OP point is that if they can convert 25% of those million pirated copies to sales *because of DRM*,
they'll have another 250,000 units sold.

This is the standard line given by anti-piracy groups, and it is just plain wrong. First, it assumes that there won't be any hacked copy available. Second, the numbers of people it presumes will buy are hyperinflated.

People who pirate games fall into three groups:
Those who will *never* pay for the game (vast majority)
Those who will try the game, and pay for it if they like it (the minority)
Those who *want* the game, but will try to get it hacked, and only buy it if they can't get a hacked version.

Does SI really think that the last category really represents 1/4 of all the bittorrent folks out there? If they exist at all, they're a tiny, tiny majority. the "i use bittorrent, but I can't find a hacked version, AND I'm willing to pay for it".

Sorry, but the numbers are wrong.

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[quote name='Eugene Tyson']
If you want to play FM12, you have to have STeam and an Internet Connection. It's up to you to get it working. If you don't want to do that then don't buy FM12. It couldn't be any simpler.

Decision has been made, you need Steam to play FM12. Either get it working or don't.[/QUOTE]

I agree. I don't want to authenticate using Steam, so I won't buy the game. I know though I will be in the huge minority, and the number of people that don't buy it will be hugely,massively outnumbered by the number of people that grumble, but buy it anyway.

I know I'm an exception. I've harboured a long (partly irrational) grudge against SI since CM4 due to the way that was handled. I've only bought 2 versions of the game since (despite swearing I wouldn't buy any ever again....).

With a game as popular as this, SI will do as they please, and people will still buy it. It's like any business or industry. Why would SI change if people are still buying in large numbers? I guess they've done the maths and worked out the number of people that will stick to their guns (like me) will be outnumbered by the increase of sales due to increased piracy protection. They might be right, they might be wrong. But it is their decision to make.

I don't have faith in SI to get it right (or is it SEGA, I'm not sure where the line is drawn these days). I lost faith in them over CM4, and I can remember the last time they tried to enforce something through Steam was a total and utter b@lls up.

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[quote name='valvesucks']forcing Steam to try stop piracy? FAIL.[/QUOTE]
Nice nickname ;).

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Well guys, I have all FM boxed versions since 2006, and I'm going to explain why I'm not going to buy FM 12 if it uses Steam.
Steam takes about 20 seconds (sometimes more) to launch in my computer. If I play FM let's say 1000x a year, I would have lost in this year, 333 minutes or 5,5 hours just waiting for Steam to launch, while the guy who pirated the game (with a Nonsteam version), won't have lost this time.
In my opinion, you have to think it over, or else, you're losing another loyal customer.

Sorry for my bad english.
Regards!
Jeff

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Waiting 20 seconds is not a big deal. It's like saying you're not buying a computer because it takes 5 minutes to boot up. Buy a better computer.

If it is the case that it takes 20 seconds to launch, I suggest you never turn your computer off or reboot it ever again and you'll save yourself 300 hours of your life over the year.


@thesandman - have you tried steam lately? It probably works a lot better than you remember in CM4...

@Scaryberry - did you know that in some countries it was never available through Steam at all - and it is this year? That's right. Some countries where it took WEEKS to have the game delivered in the box. These can now buy and download from Steam. I can imagine a lot of those would be happy to buy the game instead of perhaps in some cases where they were pirating it like they did before.

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Can you delete Steam after authenticating your copy of the game or is it forced upon me to use Steam for years to come?

I'm not too keen to have a ***** third party software installed in the first place but there's simply no way I'm getting Steam just so I can play FM. I can only hope the sales plummet and SI admit their mistake.

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Steam needs to be running alongside the game, so no, you cannot uninstall it and still play FM12.

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[quote name='Eugene Tyson']Waiting 20 seconds is not a big deal. It's like saying you're not buying a computer because it takes 5 minutes to boot up. Buy a better computer.

If it is the case that it takes 20 seconds to launch, I suggest you never turn your computer off or reboot it ever again and you'll save yourself 300 hours of your life over the year.


@thesandman - have you tried steam lately? It probably works a lot better than you remember in CM4...

@Scaryberry - did you know that in some countries it was never available through Steam at all - and it is this year? That's right. Some countries where it took WEEKS to have the game delivered in the box. These can now buy and download from Steam. I can imagine a lot of those would be happy to buy the game instead of perhaps in some cases where they were pirating it like they did before.[/QUOTE]

Your first statement is typical of the nonsense being ejaculated about to support Steam activation. Owning a PC to play a PC game is a physical requirement. Using DRM is a choice removed from me on the whim of a manufacturer - absolutely no comparison at all. I do accept they have the right to protect their product as they please and am trying to see a complicated list of Steam troubleshooting suggestions as a cure to any possible problem, rather than a suggestion that there is an awful lot that could go wrong, but its not easy right now! Like the idea of never turning off though ;-)

Have to say, Scarryberry has hit the nail on the head, I believe. I have no stats to prove it though. SI's stats are debateable, but they used them in their own favour, of course.

Am getting frustarted that DRM is linked in the main to the behaviour of our foreign "friends". I dont want to sound zenaphobic but a game made in England aimed primarily (if not soley) at fans of English football (yes I know it has a worldwide following) is made more awkward to access due to (mostly) foreign criminals.

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[quote name='Scaryberry']I hardly ever post, but this is a prime example of the failed logic behind the piracy numbers.
Using made-up numbers, SI is assuming that they'll sell a million copies through normal channels, and a million copies will be pirated. Their OP point is that if they can convert 25% of those million pirated copies to sales *because of DRM*,
they'll have another 250,000 units sold.

This is the standard line given by anti-piracy groups, and it is just plain wrong. First, it assumes that there won't be any hacked copy available. Second, the numbers of people it presumes will buy are hyperinflated.

People who pirate games fall into three groups:
Those who will *never* pay for the game (vast majority)
Those who will try the game, and pay for it if they like it (the minority)
Those who *want* the game, but will try to get it hacked, and only buy it if they can't get a hacked version.

Does SI really think that the last category really represents 1/4 of all the bittorrent folks out there? If they exist at all, they're a tiny, tiny majority. the "i use bittorrent, but I can't find a hacked version, AND I'm willing to pay for it".

Sorry, but the numbers are wrong.[/QUOTE]

You, like more people, seem to be missing one set of people who pirate the game.
Those people who buy a copy of the game with someone else (friend or family member) and both play it at the same time. That doesn't seem like piracy to most people but it is and it's that form of piracy that will be most affected by this change. The license for the game only allows one user to run one instance of the game at a time.

I suspect that at least some of the naysayers for Steam fall into that category.

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The "if you don't like Steam, then don't buy FM - plain and simple" is the sales pitch these days. I am sure this is going to do wonders for SI/SEGA, especially for thier résumé... :rolleyes:

I don't think that the minority is a small as suggested, it could turn out that the procentage of people who won't buy the game due to this Steam issue might just out-weigh the one's who SI/SEGA think will purchase a genuine copy instead of a pirated one (it won't make that much a difference at best). FM has already been part of Steam for a couple of years at least, they must know (or have an idea) how many procentage of sales actually go through Steam (the ones who buy through other sources usually have their reasons) - take away the ones who don't have internet or the ones who have poor internet connections and I think you are going to see a whole other aspect. Many of the people who popped into stores to buy FM are football fans, you know, the ones who don't usually sit around and game all day, Steam and all it's advantages doesn't really mean anything to them...

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[quote name='AL-K-PWN']This thread is hilarious.[/QUOTE]

What an amazing first Post, you should get an award! May I suggest there is a little room for improvement though going forward. Anyway, Welcome to the Forums, look forward to your sides being well and truly split.

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Sorry, after reading over 3500 posts in this thread that were made with no logical thought process, I've facepalmed so many times I must have given myself brain damage.

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[quote name='pigfacemonkeyman']Not original but important I think.

So, 6 days later, any news on this?[/QUOTE]

I've heard nothing so I've prodded where I'm able to prod, we're approaching the time when the forums are reorganised for FM12 so it could be they're waiting for that, hope to hear something definitive soon.

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[quote name='spankie']You, like more people, seem to be missing one set of people who pirate the game.
Those people who buy a copy of the game with someone else (friend or family member) and both play it at the same time. That doesn't seem like piracy to most people but it is and it's that form of piracy that will be most affected by this change. The license for the game only allows one user to run one instance of the game at a time.

I suspect that at least some of the naysayers for Steam fall into that category.[/QUOTE]

Your last statement may or may not be true, it is a dangerous assumption - glad you slipped the word "suspect" in there!. However the main point you raise is an excellent one. SI would not want to come down hard, or appear to, on (for example) 2 brothers who share a copy so this is in effect a gentle nudge for them to own a copy each - fair enough. But on the other hand surely unless they turned into Pirates overnight they would both need a copy if playing separately at the same time?, so in that example SI only lose out (in theory) when the 2 brothers play separately at different times and share the disk. Yes this breaks the licensing agreement but come on, is that really worth all the anti piracy efforts - surely not in this case.

In my experience when 2 FM'ers in the same household both want to play FM they play a 2 player game on a single game copy anyway, perhaps SI are working on a way of making that a criminal offence too.

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[quote name='Loversleaper']I know alot of you guys are scared to death about this whole piracy issue, probably the sales pitch that Steam used on Miles. Pulling out figures on (general) global piracy probably freaked the crap out of him especially when Steam was ramming the ammount of money SI/SEGA was missing out on (based on statistics). They just seemed to forget to tell him that most pirating happens in places where the consumer simply can't afford it (even if you put a gun to their heads)...

Miles: "You can stop the piracy and we can make extra buck?"

Steam: "Yeah, of course we can.... well, almost at least... We can delay it for you, just check out this graph..." (also known as the 'peek-a-boo' trick)

I used to sell silk boxer-shorts, and I could convince you that buying those shorts were just about the best thing that could happen to you...[/QUOTE]

megaLOL

definitely post of the day

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[quote name='AL-K-PWN']Sorry, after reading over 3500 posts in this thread that were made with no logical thought process, I've facepalmed so many times I must have given myself brain damage.[/QUOTE]

That is extremely unfair, I admire you read them all - I have but only as I followed the thread from the start, I would not have the patience to read back though I confess. Whilst a lot of posts may be mindless there are a lot (the majority) which are well intentioned and well thought out - and I include many I strongly disagree with, although some (included some of my own) would have been well served by stepping back and thinking for a bit before posting. To be fair we have all faceplamed to the point of brain damage by now. I llok forward to a surprising smooth activation and never ever feeling I need to visit this thread again. Im sure Kriss seconds that emotion! ;-)

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[quote name='tigerhgrrrrrr']

In my experience when 2 FM'ers in the same household both want to play FM they play a 2 player game on a single game copy anyway, perhaps SI are working on a way of making that a criminal offence too.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps when you make some software and 40 million people steal it, you might be a bit more sympathetic to SI's plight.

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[quote name='tigerhgrrrrrr']That is extremely unfair, I admire you read them all - I have but only as I followed the thread from the start, I would not have the patience to read back though I confess. Whilst a lot of posts may be mindless there are a lot (the majority) which are well intentioned and well thought out - and I include many I strongly disagree with, although some (included some of my own) would have been well served by stepping back and thinking for a bit before posting. To be fair we have all faceplamed to the point of brain damage by now. I llok forward to a surprising smooth activation and never ever feeling I need to visit this thread again. Im sure Kriss seconds that emotion! ;-)[/QUOTE]

It's been an interesting thread, my only problem with it is that people aren't content to state their position/argument once or at least in context to other posts and then move on. i.e. it could have been 35 pages shorter and still achieved the same:)

Both sides have grasped at illogic too often to prove the unprovable, the actual proof lies in the future.

I resent some of the motives ascribed to Sega/SI, profit has to be in the equation of course (nothing wrong with that) but the abiding aim at SI Towers is , and always has been to assure the long term future of the game.
They will have taken this decision with that uppermost in their minds.

I find some of the logic used to object to Steam prehistoric and I say that in the confident knowledge that I'm the oldest person to post in this thread so far
:D

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[quote name='Eugene Tyson']Perhaps when you make some software and 40 million people steal it, you might be a bit more sympathetic to SI's plight.[/QUOTE]

And when you have 2 children, give them 1 copy of the latest "toy" to share, and then have to deal with the tantrums and fall out as they both want to play at the same time, you will realise the nonsense of the "Piracy" arguement as presented. Now days £30-£40 is a very small outlay for something that gives so many hours enjoyment (less than a seat to a Premiership match?), pirated copies are in the vast majority held by those who would not pay the price for the game regardless (for various reasons it would be unfair for me to judge). I do not present this as a "fact" but it would seem a logical conclusion from a common sense consideration of common knowledge about piracy habits of gamers.

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