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David Kempshall

A Message On Football Manager 2012 Activation

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To put it bluntly, I suspect in private the SI bods are disturbed and upset about this, especially as a lot of the walkaway-sayers are loyal customers of many years standing. On the other hand I suspect Sega bods dont give a to$$ - its all about a few more ££'s to them and to be fair that is their business.

Not purchasing because you aren't willing to install something that will take five minutes out of your day and will barely disturb you in the future hardly sounds like "loyalty" to me.

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I would like to point out that the advice about going to public internet places (like hot spots, McD, ect...) is false, I wish some of you would stop saying this as you are going to cause a lot of people problems (which is unfair). I have been doing some research and it suggests that this is one of the problems when dealing with Steam, I move around a lot - living in three different countries in Europe due to work. Due to my moving around I have to change the internet connection relatively often, this is where a lot of the problems occur - it is essential that the internet connectivety is not slow or poor, if it is then Steam will cause problems. I know a lot of you that don't have problems are basically on the net 24/7 (and of course have good connectivety), most of the problems with Steam is the "going to offline mode" as shown in this clip below:

I know for a fact that a lot of public places simply don't allow you to visit these type of sites, so for the sake of the community - please be 100% sure before you post this type of advice...

@milnerpoint. I don't hate you so why do you even say something like that? To use a car analogy: just because I would never buy a Wartburg it doesn't mean I hate it... ;)

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To use a car analogy: just because I would never buy a Wartburg it doesn't mean I hate it... ;)

If it was the only car you could buy you'd have to, or walk;)

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@milnerpoint. I don't hate you so why do you even say something like that? To use a car analogy: just because I would never buy a Wartburg it doesn't mean I hate it... ;)

:) It was just a joke mate, it just so happens i appear to be in the very lucky bracket, no steam issues, no issue using steam, never needing to go back to a previous patch, no BT issus, i have it all, like i said before i have a spare room in my land of happines, its open to any FMers who arent so lucky!! hahaha

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Not purchasing because you aren't willing to install something that will take five minutes out of your day and will barely disturb you in the future hardly sounds like "loyalty" to me.

I think you have played that "loyalty" card before in this debate, it didnt add much first time to be honest. Personally I have not reached the point where I will walkaway from FM12 ("loyal"?, I wouldnt brag that point), but a bad experience downloading the demo may tip the balance against it for me (see previous posts about this weekends disheartenenig"adventures" with Steam!).

If your girlfriend sleeps wth another man and you decide you cannot forgive and walkaway - is that disloyalty? - Not a direct comparison of course, but I think that proves loyalty can be a very subjective thing.

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If it was the only car you could buy you'd have to, or walk;)

Game. Set. Match. ;)

*edit*

infact Tiger has just taken it to a new level, now steam is like dumping your cheating girlfriend, i dont think anyone can top that.

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If it was the only car you could buy you'd have to, or walk;)

If this was the case, I would find out how to make my own wheels fast - you can be sure about that. I think the entire merc, bmw, audi driving population would kick up a crap storm, though, so the Wartburg forum mods will have got to take some crash courses asap...

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Game. Set. Match. ;)

*edit*

infact Tiger has just taken it to a new level, now steam is like dumping your cheating girlfriend, i dont think anyone can top that.

Dont you believe it, Im just warming up! ;-) I wasnt actually comparing Steam to anything - I was assimilating "loyalty", but like the rest of the fiercely pro Steam brigade - dont let truth get in the way of a good (or indeed not so good) post!

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you've lost me with "assimilising"??

you are right tho, none of us should let the truth get in the way, but we at least need to find out what the truth is, so far that isnt possible.

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you've lost me with "assimilising"??

you are right tho, none of us should let the truth get in the way, but we at least need to find out what the truth is, so far that isnt possible.

assimilising was a dreadful piece of mis-typing - apologies for that! :-/

Agreed though the truth is hard to assess using the forum as a strawpoll of opinions, not representative perhaps, but on this very page it is stated that signing up to Steam takes 5 mins - took me 60 for the reasons stated previously. And that Steam is not intrusive. That is a Lie. Steam is intrusive, it affects my log off, it will affect my FM12 experience, I dont want it - it is intrusive...but as stated I will go with Steam this once, I have no choice. Pro Steamers are posting from the position of their experience which if good is great, we are all very pleased for them - but for some of us (many much worse than mine) there are problems.

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I've asked V Bulletin if there's a way to loop a thread so there's no start and no end;)

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Kriss you must have boosted your post count in this thread by 5000 :p

Is there no sign to the end of this recycled thread of the same old, same old, see I'm at it now sigh :D

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Is there no sign to the end of this recycled thread of the same old, same old, see I'm at it now sigh :D

closing the thread = another thing for people to moan about

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I've asked V Bulletin if there's a way to loop a thread so there's no start and no end;)

I fear that will be unnecessary! Actually am getting irritated by my own posts now.

As someone much more famous than I once said:

"Where there is bias, let me bring perspective. "

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Tbh, I have no real issue with Steam whatsoever, but I do think that SI forcing its client-base to use the service is really quite poor. Tempted not to buy the game, partially due to the lack of exciting new features in FM12 and this out-of-touch decision. Disappointed.

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May I be allowed to voice my thoughts about the 'Steam' thing? I am against it for the following reason/s. I will be paying around £25 for the game. It then becomes my property. I should not have to install and run a third party piece of software before I can use my own property. You wouldn't buy a new car and sgree to buying only the sellers own petrol. My fear is that once the 'Steam' thing is fully operational and set up there will, at some future date, a 'nominal' charge made to enable you to use 'Steam'. For the first time in six years I shall be buying FIFA Manager 2012. I am very loathe to even have to consider not buying Football Manager 2012, as I have bought every one since the 'Domark' inception of the game. I hope that 'Sega' will have a rethink but I fear that it has already been decided and that the views of it's customers are of little significance to them.

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May I be allowed to voice my thoughts about the 'Steam' thing? I am against it for the following reason/s. I will be paying around £25 for the game. It then becomes my property. I should not have to install and run a third party piece of software before I can use my own property. You wouldn't buy a new car and sgree to buying only the sellers own petrol. [My fear is that once the 'Steam' thing is fully operational and set up there will, at some future date, a 'nominal' charge made to enable you to use 'Steam'. For the first time in six years I shall be buying FIFA Manager 2012. I am very loathe to even have to consider not buying Football Manager 2012, as I have bought every one since the 'Domark' inception of the game. I hope that 'Sega' will have a rethink but I fear that it has already been decided and that the views of it's customers are of little significance to them.

Just to ask a question why would Valve need to charge us customers for the Steam client? It has been up and running for about nine years now as it was created to distribute Half Life 2 originally. Valve makes a fortune on game sales through Steam and has a fairly successful game development thing going on. You just have to look at Portal 2 or even the Half Life series to see that. Not to mention they also charge developers/publishers to be able to distribute their games through the steam client.

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everybody makes that silly assumption about things that are free, and that eventually they will cost money because it is profit going amiss, steam won't be charging anybody anytime soon, if they do then I'll eat my hat, or a hat shaped dinner

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May I be allowed to voice my thoughts about the 'Steam' thing? I am against it for the following reason/s. I will be paying around £25 for the game. It then becomes my property. I should not have to install and run a third party piece of software before I can use my own property. You wouldn't buy a new car and sgree to buying only the sellers own petrol. My fear is that once the 'Steam' thing is fully operational and set up there will, at some future date, a 'nominal' charge made to enable you to use 'Steam'. For the first time in six years I shall be buying FIFA Manager 2012. I am very loathe to even have to consider not buying Football Manager 2012, as I have bought every one since the 'Domark' inception of the game. I hope that 'Sega' will have a rethink but I fear that it has already been decided and that the views of it's customers are of little significance to them.

Enforced DRM is just a hard nosed business decision. Using Steam only (no alternatives) is a shortsighted one. May I recommend that SI never write a "Hospital Manager" game, because

in such a game the comparable decision would be to let the most ill (and expensive to treat) patients just slip away.

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I have a rule of thumb that when a thread brings tears to my eyes I close it, jeesh!!!!!

What the hell next:D

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A Steam client update is now available. To apply the update, click the File menu inside of Steam and then select "Check for Steam Client Updates...". The specific changes include:

  • fixed high CPU usage in game library view
    Fixed switching into offline mode
    Fixed server browser for games using the HL1 engine
    Fix favorite games showing in server browser that don't respond to pings
    Fixed defragmentation if depot file is compressed by NTFS
    Fixed retail installer setting correct game language

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I hope people will keep updateing fm2011 cos I wont be buying Fm2012 for the same reasons as most people on here i.e lack of new features and the steam issue.

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I hope people will keep updateing fm2011 cos I wont be buying Fm2012 for the same reasons as most people on here i.e lack of new features and the steam issue.

What issue do you have with Steam? Perhaps we can help.

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I dont want it on my system and I just dont see the worth in spending what little money I have on a game which is basically an updated less buggy FM2011, yeah there is one new decent feature but thats it and untill the demo proves me wrong I aint going to buy the game, even if the game was really good I would not buy it cos I want to be in control of whats on my computer and not be forced to have software on there, now I know you will reassure me that Steam is great etc but it could be the best thing ever and I still will not want it on my computer, its a shame really Ive been a loyal customer of Football Manager since the first ever Championship Manager, I appreciate you trieing to help Dune.

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May I be allowed to voice my thoughts about the 'Steam' thing? I am against it for the following reason/s. I will be paying around £25 for the game. It then becomes my property..

Actually it doesn't. You have a licence to use the software but it isn't "your" software.

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I have a rule of thumb that when a thread brings tears to my eyes I close it, jeesh!!!!!

What the hell next:D

What the hell indeed - maybe an we'll have to update Steam to effectively fix the bugs! Only joking ;-)

Oh........! :-)

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It's statements like this that give no feedback to SI, Sega or Steam.

Tell us what you don't like about it. Or what you would prefer instead.

What makes it horrible for you?

I don't think I need to reiterate every point on here that has been beat to death, but I often go without Internet access for weeks, sometimes months at a time, which means I cannot access Steam. I am not looking forward to traveling around Montevideo just to find a coffee shop that has free wi-fi, or paying for wireless Internet at my temporary residences down south. That's all, really.

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Steam is horrible because it has over 30 million accounts and 3 million gamers online at any time of day. Makes sense! :lol:

Microsoft ring a bell? How many users and still not that great of a product?

Okay.

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Been away for a week or so and missed all this fun!

Approaching 4000 posts on this subject, many users posting multiple messages. Shall we say 2000 unhappy users who are thinking of not buying this years edition?

All due respect but 2000 missing sales isn't going to make a dent, especially if people are more reluctant/unable to pirate the game and make a purchase (time will tell)

I admire SI and SEGA for having the balls to try and combat a growing problem for pc games.

I

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Microsoft ring a bell? How many users and still not that great of a product?

Okay.

Windows? Much better than Apple's OS.

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I knew that Steam was published by Valve, that was my point actually. To make a brilliant analogy : when I buy a car to Mercedes, I don't have to get my key at BMW to be able to drive that same Mercedes (and give them my name and all and thus receive ads constantly telling me to buy them a car next time). Valve is a publisher just like SEGA.

It was already -imho- a scandal for Civ5 (Konami)... and now SEGA with FM, sadly. EA does the same thing with BF3 and Origin yes, but it's an EA game, and Origin's an EA platform, that sells only EA games. Even if it's disturbing, it's at least more acceptable. The truth is Uniloc, Byteshield and any other DRM costs money unlike Steam who's even probably willing to pay SEGA (as gamers who activate their FM on Steam become instantly potential customers to them). Don't be so innocent.

Fighting piracy is one -good- thing, forcing FM players to create an account, give personal info and download a client from a third party company is quite another.

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I knew that Steam was published by Valve, that was my point actually. To make a brilliant analogy : when I buy a car to Mercedes, I don't have to get my key at BMW to be able to drive that same Mercedes (and give them my name and all and thus receive ads constantly telling me to buy them a car next time). Valve is a publisher just like SEGA.

It was already -imho- a scandal for Civ5 (Konami)... and now SEGA with FM, sadly. EA does the same thing with BF3 and Origin yes, but it's an EA game, and Origin's an EA platform, that sells only EA games. Even if it's disturbing, it's at least more acceptable. The truth is Uniloc, Byteshield and any other DRM costs money unlike Steam who's even probably willing to pay SEGA (as gamers who activate their FM on Steam become instantly potential customers to them). Don't be so innocent.

Fighting piracy is one -good- thing, forcing FM players to create an account, give personal info and download a client from a third party company is quite another.

Steam can be setup with less personal info than it took to create an account on this forum, you don't constantly receive ads either if you don't want too.

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It seems I have to be content with the updated 11.3 version this year. Instead of pricing the game fairly, SI decides to do this ridiculous thing.

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Bad move in my opinion. This restricts people playing in other countries who do not have Internet Connections (which inturn leads to them maybe pirating it themselves when they wasn't going to do that in the first place).

Also, If this is an anti-piracy measure - there really is no point. Hackers always win... unfortunately.

I would reconsider that move.

Are you dumb? If they dont have internett they cant pirate the game. Simple. And trying to say people who have the hardware to play FM don't have internett is wrong. Limited sure, but they have some connection!

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Whinge Whinge Whinge.

Decision has been made and it's obvious they are gonna stick to it.

By all means suggest a better method for FM2013 for Sega and Sigames to consider but they're not gonna change their decision for FM2012.

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I knew that Steam was published by Valve, that was my point actually. To make a brilliant analogy : when I buy a car to Mercedes, I don't have to get my key at BMW to be able to drive that same Mercedes (and give them my name and all and thus receive ads constantly telling me to buy them a car next time). Valve is a publisher just like SEGA.

It was already -imho- a scandal for Civ5 (Konami)... and now SEGA with FM, sadly. EA does the same thing with BF3 and Origin yes, but it's an EA game, and Origin's an EA platform, that sells only EA games. Even if it's disturbing, it's at least more acceptable. The truth is Uniloc, Byteshield and any other DRM costs money unlike Steam who's even probably willing to pay SEGA (as gamers who activate their FM on Steam become instantly potential customers to them). Don't be so innocent.

Fighting piracy is one -good- thing, forcing FM players to create an account, give personal info and download a client from a third party company is quite another.

That DRM remark is actually not correct. Steam takes a cut. Publishers go there because it generates sales. You have this store attached to a platform that millions of users are logged in to at any given time - it's in your business interest to appear there.

As has been detailed earlier in the thread, discount popups can be disabled and the default tab changed from Store to something else if these are not to your liking. :)

I don't understand the third party issue to be perfectly frank. Does it matter if it's run by SEGA or someone else if it works? I mean we're not talking spammers or telemarketers or whathaveyou, it's a publishing partner that helps with distribution and exposure. If SEGA could do this themselves they probably would.

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A Steam client update is now available. To apply the update, click the File menu inside of Steam and then select "Check for Steam Client Updates...". The specific changes include:

  • fixed high CPU usage in game library view
    Fixed switching into offline mode
    Fixed server browser for games using the HL1 engine
    Fix favorite games showing in server browser that don't respond to pings
    Fixed defragmentation if depot file is compressed by NTFS
    Fixed retail installer setting correct game language

So, I updated the client last night and just now wanted to see how it works:

updatesteamprob1.jpg

By loversleaper at 2011-09-28

newsteamprob2.jpg

By loversleaper at 2011-09-28

Am I the only one experiencing this?...

:(

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If SEGA could do this themselves they probably would.

Which begs the question, would we prefer all publishers to require their own distribution/authentication application (some already do) so you'd have several extra apps with equal number of possible problem sources? or is it better to have one which specialises and therefore in theory (practise too actually) does the job far more efficiently?

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So, I updated the client last night and just now wanted to see how it works::(

I'd be wondering about the "your internet connection may not be correctly configured for Steam" is this a router problem or possibly ISP?

They have a section on that sort of issue, maybe something there that gives a clue.

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Which begs the question, would we prefer all publishers to require their own distribution/authentication application (some already do) so you'd have several extra apps with equal number of possible problem sources? or is it better to have one which specialises and therefore in theory (practise too actually) does the job far more efficiently?

As someone who owns some 200 PC games on Steam and a book case worth of boxed copies, I probably don't need to answer that. :)

I suppose someone exclusively playing FM may see things differently though.

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I'd be wondering about the "your internet connection may not be correctly configured for Steam" is this a router problem or possibly ISP?

They have a section on that sort of issue, maybe something there that gives a clue.

I can go back online with no difficulties...

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Look, why don't you try this:

1: Turn off computer

2: Unplug internet connection/turn off wi-fi, routers, modems, ect...

3: Turn on computer

4: See for yourself....

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Look, why don't you try this:

1: Turn off computer

2: Unplug internet connection/turn off wi-fi, routers, modems, ect...

3: Turn on computer

4: See for yourself....

Not to rub it in, but i do that every day, my router gets turned off the night before, and my laptop is shut down every night. Have you contacted steam support at all?

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Which begs the question, would we prefer all publishers to require their own distribution/authentication application (some already do) so you'd have several extra apps with equal number of possible problem sources? or is it better to have one which specialises and therefore in theory (practise too actually) does the job far more efficiently?

Thats a good point really, if SEGA released their own 3rd party program you needed to play FM, would their be a huge outcry over it? Is it not better to use a company proven to be good at offering this service?

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Not to rub it in, but i do that every day, my router gets turned off the night before, and my laptop is shut down every night. Have you contacted steam support at all?

When you wake in the morning, you truely and honestly start up your computer without internet connection and when you hit the "Start Steam in offline mode" you have no problems?

I knew about the client update so with the fix list I thought it was best to wait...

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When you wake in the morning, you truely and honestly start up your computer without internet connection and when you hit the "Start Steam in offline mode" you have no problems?

I knew about the client update so with the fix list I thought it was best to wait...

I have my laptop right beside me at the moment, with FM running, and i cant connect to my works wi-fi as i am not allowed too. I'm not just saying it to back up my point its honestly the truth, the only time my laptop is connected to the net is if i turn my wi-fi on at home, my router stays off unless i want to use the net for either the laptop, the BT vision or my Xbox, i never have issues at like your having, thats why i would suggest contacting steam support, i think you have an issue we cannot help you resolve.

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milnerpoint still defending SI after almost 4,000 posts:applause:

we're talking about steam here not SI, keep moving :)

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