David Kempshall

A Message On Football Manager 2012 Activation

4,165 posts in this topic

when you buy software it comes with a license, that is an agreement this is rubbish ...

once you buy something its yours to do as you please . no if , not buts .

you buy a ford car . you sell it on , you buy a sony tv . you sell it on .... buit si want you to buy there game ...pay for there game ....but in fact it never really is yours ? WRONG WRONG

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when you buy software it comes with a license, that is an agreement this is rubbish ...

once you buy something its yours to do as you please . no if , not buts .

you buy a ford car . you sell it on , you buy a sony tv . you sell it on .... buit si want you to buy there game ...pay for there game ....but in fact it never really is yours ? WRONG WRONG

Be careful, you're not a member of this gentleman's club. ;)

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when you buy software it comes with a license, that is an agreement this is rubbish ...

once you buy something its yours to do as you please . no if , not buts .

you buy a ford car . you sell it on , you buy a sony tv . you sell it on .... buit si want you to buy there game ...pay for there game ....but in fact it never really is yours ? WRONG WRONG

As has been stated numerous times before, this is how things are - like it or not - with the vast majority of PC software, including Windows, any FM...

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when you buy software it comes with a license, that is an agreement this is rubbish ...

once you buy something its yours to do as you please . no if , not buts .

you buy a ford car . you sell it on , you buy a sony tv . you sell it on .... buit si want you to buy there game ...pay for there game ....but in fact it never really is yours ? WRONG WRONG

Take it up with the relevant court in your country.

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when you buy software it comes with a license, that is an agreement this is rubbish ...

once you buy something its yours to do as you please . no if , not buts .

you buy a ford car . you sell it on , you buy a sony tv . you sell it on .... buit si want you to buy there game ...pay for there game ....but in fact it never really is yours ? WRONG WRONG

Incorrect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_license_agreement

http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/E/EULA.html

http://www.apple.com/legal/sla/

And google that as much as you like

Here's the mention of the iPad Software in their EULA

The software (including Boot ROM code and other embedded software), documentation, interfaces, content, fonts and any data that came with your iPad

("Original iPad Software"), as may be updated or replaced by feature enhancements, software updates or system restore software provided by Apple ("iPad Software

Updates"), whether in read only memory, on any other media or in any other form (the Original iPad Software and iPad Software Updates are collectively referred to as the

“iPad Software") are licensed, not sold, to you by Apple Inc. ("Apple") for use only under the terms of this License. Apple and its licensors retain ownership of the iPad

Software itself and reserve all rights not expressly granted to you.

Check out the iPad 2 License regarding software and transfer

3. Transfer. You may not rent, lease, lend, sell, redistribute, or sublicense the iPad Software. You may, however, make a one-time permanent transfer of all of your license

rights to the iPad Software to another party in connection with the transfer of ownership of your iPad, provided that: (a) the transfer must include your iPad and all of the

iPad Software, including all its component parts, original media, printed materials and this License; (b) you do not retain any copies of the iPad Software, full or partial,

including copies stored on a computer or other storage device; and © the party receiving the iPad Software reads and agrees to accept the terms and conditions of this

License.

Even with iPads you have to transfer ownership to someone else. You can't retain anything.

Same goes with any Software. If you are selling it you may not keep any part of it. Same goes for FM. You may not keep a copy for yourself all of the ownership of the game must be transferred.

Classic example:

Do you think it's fair that you bought an iPad for $500 and then you can only use a memory hog of iTunes to update and transfer files thereto?

Remember iTunes is a 3rd Party App too.

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iPad was taken as an example.

Go ahead and look up ANY EULA pertaining to software.

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when you buy software it comes with a license, that is an agreement this is rubbish ...

once you buy something its yours to do as you please . no if , not buts .

you buy a ford car . you sell it on , you buy a sony tv . you sell it on .... buit si want you to buy there game ...pay for there game ....but in fact it never really is yours ? WRONG WRONG

"The Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, is the current UK copyright law. It gives the creators of literary, dramatic, musical and artistic works the right to control the ways in which their material may be used. The rights cover: Broadcast and public performance, copying, adapting, issuing, renting and lending copies to the public." Taken from this site: http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/uk_law_summary

EULAs are just exercising a legal right. It is not yours to do with as you please, however much you protest.

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Lets make this clear .

The main reason SI are doing this has nothing what so ever to do with piracy. or if they think it has they are very wrong .

reasons.

at most there can only be in the 100s of pirate copys each year .. you only have to look at the seeds to tell only a few 100 download pirate copys ..

So SI why o why ... yes your sales have droped by the tens off 1000s . but trust me there are not tens of 1000s of folk that would even have the nohow in how to run a pirate copy ..

the real reason your sales have taken a big hit . is because the game is no longer fun to play for a lot of folk ..that is the hole truth of it .

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Do you think it's fair that you bought an iPad for $500 and then you can only use a memory hog of iTunes to update and transfer files thereto?

Remember iTunes is a 3rd Party App too.

i can almost guarantee you these same people will say they dont use Itunes, just you wait :)

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Lets make this clear .

The main reason SI are doing this has nothing what so ever to do with piracy. or if they think it has they are very wrong .

reasons.

at most there can only be in the 100s of pirate copys each year .. you only have to look at the seeds to tell only a few 100 download pirate copys ..

So SI why o why ... yes your sales have droped by the tens off 1000s . but trust me there are not tens of 1000s of folk that would even have the nohow in how to run a pirate copy ..

the real reason your sales have taken a big hit . is because the game is no longer fun to play for a lot of folk ..that is the hole truth of it .

Eh that's not how you figure these things out. SI and/or Sega have teams that work on this.

Just because there 100 seeds. That only means 100 people are hosting it. Nothing to do with the amount of people that downloaded it.

In their post they stated that if 1/4 (a quarter) of the people that pirated the game actually bought the game it would double the sales.

So if there was 1,000,000 people buying it. Then there 4,000,000 people pirating it.

Think about that. Wouldn't you want your software protected somehow? At least to delay?

SI have no reason to lie to you. Nor do SEGA. Look into Steam. Look into what it was designed for.

These conspiracies of this not being a piracy issue are bizarre. It's completely to do with Piracy. Else they wouldn't bother locking people into Steam and not giving them another option.

They didn't do it for FM09, FM10, FM11 because they didn't have a good way of delaying piracy. Now they do. And they are using it.

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i can almost guarantee you these same people will say they dont use Itunes, just you wait :)

And they'll buy an iPad or win one, or someone will buy them one and they'll be FORCED to use a 3rd party App to update it. Grrrrrr..... :D

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"The Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, is the current UK copyright law. It gives the creators of literary, dramatic, musical and artistic works the right to control the ways in which their material may be used. The rights cover: Broadcast and public performance, copying, adapting, issuing, renting and lending copies to the public." Taken from this site: http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/uk_law_summary

EULAs are just exercising a legal right. It is not yours to do with as you please, however much you protest.

you have to laugh at you folk : most of which dont no anything about law what so ever . copyright .. thats the word read it again ... copyright .. let me break it up for you ....COPY- RIGHT .. which in the main means you cannot copy it

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you have to laugh at you folk : most of which dont no anything about law what so ever .

So... do you?

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And they'll buy an iPad or win one, or someone will buy them one and they'll be FORCED to use a 3rd party App to update it. Grrrrrr..... :D

I must have missed the 10ft letters saying "you must have the internet and Itunes to use this product" when i bought my ipod, where's my lawyer?

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Eh that's not how you figure these things out. SI and/or Sega have teams that work on this.

Just because there 100 seeds. That only means 100 people are hosting it. Nothing to do with the amount of people that downloaded it.

In their post they stated that if 1/4 (a quarter) of the people that pirated the game actually bought the game it would double the sales.

So if there was 1,000,000 people buying it. Then there 4,000,000 people pirating it.

Think about that. Wouldn't you want your software protected somehow? At least to delay?

SI have no reason to lie to you. Nor do SEGA. Look into Steam. Look into what it was designed for.

These conspiracies of this not being a piracy issue are bizarre. It's completely to do with Piracy. Else they wouldn't bother locking people into Steam and not giving them another option.

They didn't do it for FM09, FM10, FM11 because they didn't have a good way of delaying piracy. Now they do. And they are using it.

they didnt sell .. because they game is not playabal to most .. its become more in depth , longer to play ..

there is no true reading on this ... but its not all down to piracy issue .. i am saying that SI have read it wrong ....

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they didnt sell .. because they game is not playabal to most .. its become more in depth , longer to play ..

there is no true reading on this ... but its not all down to piracy issue .. i am saying that SI have read it wrong ....

You've spent 3 years with SI and SEGA figuring this out? You've got a company that employs 100's of people that collaborates with other companies on this and are experts in their fields?

Please do tell?

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And the other thing i wanna add. why risk upsetting your main customs ... because lets face it ... every single game on steam to this day has been cracked ... so there will still be priate copys off the game anyway

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Eh that's not how you figure these things out. SI and/or Sega have teams that work on this.

Just because there 100 seeds. That only means 100 people are hosting it. Nothing to do with the amount of people that downloaded it.

In their post they stated that if 1/4 (a quarter) of the people that pirated the game actually bought the game it would double the sales.

So if there was 1,000,000 people buying it. Then there 4,000,000 people pirating it.

Think about that. Wouldn't you want your software protected somehow? At least to delay?

SI have no reason to lie to you. Nor do SEGA. Look into Steam. Look into what it was designed for.

These conspiracies of this not being a piracy issue are bizarre. It's completely to do with Piracy. Else they wouldn't bother locking people into Steam and not giving them another option.

They didn't do it for FM09, FM10, FM11 because they didn't have a good way of delaying piracy. Now they do. And they are using it.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_sof_pir_rat-crime-software-piracy-rate

So, if SI/SEGA or anyone else thinks that they can get most of the these countries to pay for a product they can't afford to start with then your statement will make sense - everything else is simply hear-say...

On top, we are back to EULA rules/laws plain and simply force us to have internet connections and have Steam present on our computers to run games...

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You've spent 3 years with SI and SEGA figuring this out? You've got a company that employs 100's of people that collaborates with other companies on this and are experts in their fields?

Please do tell?

really. do you really think it would even take a few 100s of people 3 years to work that out ... now your really sounding funny

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And the other thing i wanna add. why risk upsetting your main customs ... because lets face it ... every single game on steam to this day has been cracked ... so there will still be priate copys off the game anyway

Well that's true. There's pirate copies of every piece of software that is currently available.

The idea is to delay piracy.

I've said this about 20 times already but I'll go again.

In the past people who pre-ordered the game suddenly cancelled their pre-orders on the same day the pirated versions were released. So sales were lost before the game was even launched. Now not every person that cancelled was due to the pirated version being made available. But it's a pretty big coincidence.

Now SI have said that since they released the information about Steam only activation - that preorders have sky-rocketed compared to other years.

The idea here is it's not going to prevent piracy. But it will delay it. And the people that don't want Steam accounts banned, or people that won't trust 3rd party suppliers of a cracked game, will use Steam.

It's already working. They've already made more sales in pre-orders compared to other years.

So I ask, what's the difference in using a Steam (3rd party) legitimate install of the game - compared to using a 3rd party (torrent client) and downloading potentially malicious software - remember this is a cracked game - they can put all sorts of things into the download in the torrent.

Fact remains. Pirating is stealing.

As I said earlier. If 1/4 of the people that pirate actually pirate the game, then they will double their sales.

That means 1,000,000 people that buy the game, there are 4,000,000 people pirating it.

That's ridiculous.

Can you blame them for wanting to get that figure down?

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http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_sof_pir_rat-crime-software-piracy-rate

So, if SI/SEGA or anyone else thinks that they can get most of the these countries to pay for a product they can't afford to start with then your statement will make sense - everything else is simply hear-say...

On top, we are back to EULA rules/laws plain and simply force us to have internet connections and have Steam present on our computers to run games...

I'd just like to point out that piracy RATE could be a little misleading, it is possible that while a country such as Armenia has a higher piracy rate than say the UK, more people overall may illegally download software in the UK.

Once again you're wrong about EULAs but tbf you hadn't heard of them until recently so a degree of confusion is to be expected.

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really. do you really think it would even take a few 100s of people 3 years to work that out ... now your really sounding funny

Well you're the one that knows it all. So tell us?

Apparently 3 companies that specialise in software can't figure it out.

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you have to laugh at you folk : most of which dont no anything about law what so ever . copyright .. thats the word read it again ... copyright .. let me break it up for you ....COPY- RIGHT .. which in the main means you cannot copy it

Unfortunately for your argument I worked in the PC auditing and software licensing industry for 11 years on over 400 projects.

The law states that the copyright holder has the exclusive right to make copies and that no-one else can do so without the copyright holder licensing them to do so. The word 'licence' is expressly used in the law.

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http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_sof_pir_rat-crime-software-piracy-rate

So, if SI/SEGA or anyone else thinks that they can get most of the these countries to pay for a product they can't afford to start with then your statement will make sense - everything else is simply hear-say...

On top, we are back to EULA rules/laws plain and simply force us to have internet connections and have Steam present on our computers to run games...

Do you think people pirate just because they can't afford? The usual attitude is "why should I pay for it if I can get it for free".

The answer is "Well we're going to make it as hard as possible for you to get it for free!"

This could be cruel - but it's a semi-joke

SI should release their own pirated version of it with excellent download speeds and put a tracker in the code and track each and every person down.

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:lol: Forgive me if I find the repetitive replies based on party lines amusing. Pavlov would be proud.

Maybe people should stop making repetitive arguments against steam then.

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He can't Eugene

Yeh I know. I'm finding it amusing that one person thinks that they have the answer, compared to 100's of people over possibly longer period than 3 years, who are experts in their fields.

Mind-bottling.

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This could be cruel - but it's a semi-joke

SI should release their own pirated version of it with excellent download speeds and put a tracker in the code and track each and every person down.

Overkill - they can just release it as a torrent and monitor that. But then again, one IP address cannot be tied down to a single person.

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Maybe people should stop making repetitive arguments against steam then.

If nobody was repetitive about anything this thread would be 4 pages long;)

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Overkill - they can just release it as a torrent and monitor that. But then again, one IP address cannot be tied down to a single person.

Yeh but if they nuked the general area at least they'd get them no?

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I'd just like to point out that piracy RATE could be a little misleading, it is possible that while a country such as Armenia has a higher piracy rate than say the UK, more people overall may illegally download software in the UK.

And you are basing your analysis on what?

I'll tell you, my friend, that it is no secret that a huge ammount of the % of piracy happens in countries that have a really low income, thus the reason for them having to pirate something they simply can't afford. So, to suggest that Steam will magically make these people richer in order to buy the game is frankly a sign of people being in a state of delusion, even if we delayed it the figures won't be anywhere near 25% - you seriously don't think these people can "afford" to wait a couple of days?

Yeah, if 25% of the people who drive VW bought a merc instead then profits for merc inc. would definatly double - just check out how much loose change you got in your wallet first. (I know I know, I'm sorry Kriss for mentioning the damn car)...

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our

And you are basing your analysis on what?

I'm not basing any analysis on anything, I'm just pointing out that piracy rate COULD be a little misleading. Please read the post again. Once again you've twisted what I said into an argument that suits you. NOBODY is suggesting switching to steam is going to make people in worse off countries richer.

However if it will make you feel better, here's a little statistical analysis. There are just under 200,000 internet users in Armenia, while just over 51 million have internet access in the UK. So while the PROPORTION of people downloading pirated games is higher in Armenia, its very POSSIBLE that the actual amount of illegal downloaders is higher in the UK.

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I'm not basing any analysis on anything, I'm just pointing out that piracy rate COULD be a little misleading. Please read the post again. Once again you've twisted what I said into an argument that suits you. NOBODY is suggesting switching to steam is going to make people in worse off countries richer.

That is why it is an illusion that SI will even be close to doubling their profits. Take a look at the how many 3rd world countries are on the list before the first "western" country (which funnily enough is Greece in 60th place) appears. Plus together the ammount of population in those countries, I think India alone outbids our populations all on it's own, and come back and tell me we download more piracy then them - who are you trying to kid?

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Nobody, I'm pointing out the flaws in your argument that switching to steam won't have any effect on piracy. I can't comment on SI doubling their profits, but tbh you are not in a position to either, the only people who ARE is SI themselves.

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:lol: Forgive me if I find the repetitive replies based on party lines amusing. Pavlov would be proud.
Maybe people should stop making repetitive arguments against steam then.

Perfect. I believe the latest 'discussion' is about "piracy", which followed on from a 'discussion' about "EULAs". If you consider these to be 'repetitive arguments against Steam', then you have my sympathy. It is beyond strange that the same people feel the need to keep responding, sheeplike, no matter what direction the thread goes in. Mind you, by now it's probably back to Steam.

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Also very strange that you keep responding too, while adding less than anybody else to the discussion, when this is clearly far below your intellectual level.

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Nobody, I'm pointing out the flaws in your argument that switching to steam won't have any effect on piracy. I can't comment on SI doubling their profits, but tbh you are not in a position to either, the only people who ARE is SI themselves.

Ok, but seriously - does anyone think that we download more than some of those countries - China, India, Pakistan, Bangledesh, Argentina, Brazil, Nigeria, Thailand just to name a few. Have you checked out the ammount of population that these countries have? This is the big problem when you are looking at piracy, my friend, there is a whole otherside of this story that seems to be sweapt under the carpet when people (like in the OP) are talking about stats. The justification that has been passed down just doesn't make sense when you start looking at the facts...

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Some replies I missed a few pages ago:

Ah X24bn6 you are the absolute king of analogies!!

One quick question tho, you say you trust SI, yes? But you don't trust them when it comes to patches, so how far does this trust go, just to the point of being comfortable to install their game?

I keep them at arm's length with my trust.

Patches are totally different since my "contact" with SI remains with respect to patches.

I somewhat trust their code - I don't necessarily trust anything beyond that.

You may hold the rights to your software - but not everybody adheres to this.

This has nothing to do with digital rights. Digital rights are bad, full-stop.

As I said in the post - you can disable updates.

I shouldn't need to explicitly disable them. They should be disabled by default.

So how is that any different? Why not use Steams? It's the same thing?

Because I think Firefox is miles better?

Achievements are a bit of fun. You may not like them - but others might. This is not about you. But what Steam can offer. For someone that is reluctant or never used this Steam, this might appeal to them.

Fair enough, but I still don't see the point - I don't want to play the game in a specific way to collect "trophies". It's about managing a football club in the way you think is right.

Yeh of course there are. How is it any different to using the In-game than another 3rd party piece of software? People complain about lack of resources. But now they will have Skype, Hotmail, Gtalk etc. open too? Why not limit the amount of apps you need to do this and use Steams built in method?

Because I can use this chat platform, that isn't forced into FM like Steam, and use them separately.

FM + Steam (with chat) = 2 applications

FM + Ventrillo (say) = 2 applications

i.e. they are the same, but Ventrillo is not forced by FM.

You may only want to. But it's not about you. It's about what Steam can offer, again it might appeal to someone else? Perhaps with Kids or students sharing accommodation? Having multi-player online gaming would be fun them. And there are free games on offer by Steam. So it's another reason that you may like to use it.

I thought we were on why I wasn't interested? Otherwise there is a theoretical person who fits all these benefits.

If I wanted these games, I would get Steam but it would be independent of me obtaining FM.

I said reduce - not stop it all together. And that's Steams explanation not mine. Perhaps take up the technical garbage with them. Fact is it can help reduce fragmentation, which helps with the game running faster.

It's absolute bollocks. If there were such a smart indexing scheme, then it would have been built into the file system. The fact is that there isn't - you have file system limitations. You cannot beat the file system in this respect!

All that format suggests is that it has lots of "pointers" to other resources, which supposedly speeds up things. In all honesty, that makes no sense since those files could get fragmented too and the pointers end up being wrong. The whole purpose of a file is that you do not need to worry about fragmentation. On a file system with no fragmentation, such a scheme might be advantageous, but a defragmented system happens once in a blue moon and performance is probably going to be worse once it does get fragmented.

In addition, on SSDs, fragmentation is not an issue since they have incredibly quick read speeds and don't rely on moving parts.

Steam even include a Defragmentation of game caches in the latest client. And for a good reason. Because it works.

Defragmentation of a cache is totally different and yes, it does work.

Same as above. Except indexing the location of files does actually speed up the process in locating them. You can find a needle in a haystack if you write down where you put it in the haystack a lot quicker than if you didn't.

That's not how it works - when a file is fragmented, it is split into many parts and thrown all over the haystack. You end up with a bookmark to one bit of the file but still need to look for the rest of the file - and that bookmark might be wrong if that fragment is moved.

A bad idea for who? Cloud storage is ever popular. You don't need to do this. But it allows access to the files through Steam which you'll be using anyway? What's the point in using another 3rd party online cloud storage? More junk to install on the computer - dropbox, iCloud, sugarsync? Why not buy €50 storage disks? People complaining the game costs €50 anyway, do you think they'd prefer a free backup service or an online free one?

The cost is recouped by the fact that transfer speeds are clearly going to be slower. Good luck downloading your FM game online.

We're comparing Steam vs. nothing here. So a third-party cloud application is one application - not one "more" application. Dropbox is one application, as is Steam. So there isn't "more junk" - it's "junk".

Not everyone has this? Same as above. It's not about you. It's about what Steam can offer.

I thought you were talking about what benefits it offered me.

Yes but then anyone can install your copy of the game on their computer. Exactly what SI are trying to prevent. People illegally obtaining their software via thefts.

That has nothing to do with me or a customer, though. If someone pirates my copy of FM, I don't really care since it doesn't affect me - I can still play the game as always. It's SI's worry - not mine.

Surely you'd be happier knowing that they may have stolen the game, but they can't play it! And the fact is you log back into Steam and download the game yourself again anyway.

I don't really care if they can play the game or not - what matters is that I can play the game. Why should I spend my time worrying about pirates, when my enjoyment isn't affected? I'm going to cheer a 4-0 victory just as happily regardless of whether it's pirated or not.

Again, using a 3rd party website. Why not use Steams? Same thing?

Because Amazon is a store at heart and does "store" better than Steam. I'm a long-term customer with Amazon and have been for a while - I like what they do.

On Amazon, I'm not just restricted to software, either. I can buy goods and order them as gifts. I'm not restricted to video games.

Not really surprising, since Amazon is an online retail store and will always be better than Steam in this respect.

You're not. But others maybe. It's what Steam can offer.

Yes, Steam offers you many ways to be defrauded...

Fine for you. But others may not want just FM12.

Covered above (talking about me?).

Jumping off a building is losing your life. Not comparable to downloading and using steam?

The logic is comparable (it's free, so it's a benefit!).

So let me get this straight, you want proof that a piece of software is acceptable as per your requirements but are unwilling to contact the creators of the software to address you specific concerns? You are however willing to repeat your concerns on a forum that is not dedicated to this afore mentioned software & expect people who are not experts in the field to alleviate these issues?

Yes. I don't find this contradictory.

If an unfamiliar company (to you) has some negative points (in, say, the media), then you would be right to repeat these concerns to others even if you haven't experienced it. You don't need to have cancer to study its symptoms.

It is, however, up to this unfamiliar company to alleviate your concerns if they want your custom. I don't have to undergo this leap of faith.

Otherwise, I could argue that you should go into every single unfamiliar shop in the world, since it would be up to you to produce evidence that they were bad before I agreed with you!

Steam cannot address my concerns since they are fundamental to any DRM platform/platform that stores financial details/online platform.

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Yeh but if they nuked the general area at least they'd get them no?

I don't get this. You can't sue "an area".

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Ok, but seriously - does anyone think that we download more than some of those countries - China, India, Pakistan, Bangledesh, Argentina, Brazil, Nigeria, Thailand just to name a few. Have you checked out the ammount of population that these countries have? This is the big problem when you are looking at piracy, my friend, there is a whole otherside of this story that seems to be sweapt under the carpet when people (like in the OP) are talking about. The justification that has been passed down just doesn't make sense when you start looking at the facts...

Like I said, I won't comment on SI doubling their profits, none of us have the necessary facts to judge whether they will or not. Also, technically speaking, population shouldn't be looked at to determine potential piracy, the number of internet users should be, or the percentage of people with internet access. You've got a much more coherent argument there now you've left the EULA stuff alone. Anyway my original point was that piracy rates alone aren't enough to support your point, now you're taking in population figures as well to support your point-much better.

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Like I said, I won't comment on SI doubling their profits, none of us have the necessary facts to judge whether they will or not. Also, technically speaking, population shouldn't be looked at to determine potential piracy, the number of internet users should be, or the percentage of people with internet access. You've got a much more coherent argument there now you've left the EULA stuff alone.

Ok, you win. In Europe we have more internet connections then the top 60 countries on the piracy statistics page (who actually threw up a bunch of numbers that hide the truth behind them). I don't know what to say anymore... :give-up-smiley:

P.S. EULA is the reason we all have to have internet connections and have Steam present on our computers to play video games... :another-give-up-smiley:

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I've not got the time to trawl through this thread so apologies, as I'm sure this question will have already been asked?

Will I be able to install FM12 on my desktop using STEAM, and then also be able to play the game on a laptop without an internet connection?

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still can't get steam working correctly on my mac (OSX Lion), shame really was looking forward to FM12

will be sticking with FM11.

Steam support = Useless

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Like I said, I won't comment on SI doubling their profits, none of us have the necessary facts to judge whether they will or not. Also, technically speaking, population shouldn't be looked at to determine potential piracy, the number of internet users should be, or the percentage of people with internet access. You've got a much more coherent argument there now you've left the EULA stuff alone. Anyway my original point was that piracy rates alone aren't enough to support your point, now you're taking in population figures as well to support your point-much better.

I'm not quite getting this, could you please explain why?

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I've not got the time to trawl through this thread so apologies, as I'm sure this question will have already been asked?

Will I be able to install FM12 on my desktop using STEAM, and then also be able to play the game on a laptop without an internet connection?

As long as you can download steam and FM onto your desktop, the computer playing FM must have at some point been online to activate the game, you cannot activate it on one computer and play it on another unless the other also has internet access.

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I'm not quite getting this, could you please explain why?

Well, aparently we have more internet connections then countries like China, India, Bangledesh, Pakistan, Thailand, Russia just to name a few (combined naturally)...

I think this conversation isn't going to do you any favors, pigfacemonkeyman...

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I've not got the time to trawl through this thread so apologies, as I'm sure this question will have already been asked?

Will I be able to install FM12 on my desktop using STEAM, and then also be able to play the game on a laptop without an internet connection?

You will have to go on the internet initially to install Steam and FM, but can then put Steam into offline mode so won't need to connect the laptop to the internet again, unless you want to patch the game.

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still can't get steam working correctly on my mac (OSX Lion), shame really was looking forward to FM12

will be sticking with FM11.

Steam support = Useless

Whats the issue? There are mac users on here who can get steam to work ok, hopefully one of them could help you out, or has maybe had the same problem they worked through.

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I'm not quite getting this, could you please explain why?

Basically because not everybody in a specified country has the ability to get a pirate copy.

I suppose if you wanted to be even MORE accurate you'd want to look at the number of people with computer access to account for pirate copies which are sold/given away in physical form (i.e. somebody downloads a pirate copy, then makes multiple copies and puts them onto discs) rather than just downloaded.

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