David Kempshall

A Message On Football Manager 2012 Activation

4,165 posts in this topic

So, because of the whole EULA issue we are by law forced to have internet connections and have Steam present on our computers. Are people really serious???? :confused:

EULAs are difficult to enforce. Steam gives a way of enforcing them. Whether it is the best way is highly debatable, but yes, one thing does inevitably lead to another.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Are you FORCED into buying FM? - no.. then you dont need steam and internet.. It is allowed to think before posting

No, but if the aim is to make money - how does this statement coincide with what you just said. What is the physical difference between buying a download compared to buying a suit - in the eyes of the law?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So, because of the whole EULA issue we are by law forced to have internet connections and have Steam present on our computers. Are people really serious???? :confused:

Your argument is becoming increasingly hard to follow. Who is your problem with? SI, Steam, The Government, EULA laws?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No, but if the aim is to make money - how does this statement coincide with what you just said. What is the physical difference between buying a download compared to buying a suit - in the eyes of the law?

Answered in post #3249.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The only person saying that is you. If you were forced by law to play FM2012 then yes, by law you would also need internet access and steam. Since you aren't forced to buy or play the game, nobody is forcing you to install steam.

Let me rephrase:

"So, because of the whole EULA issue we are forced by law to have internet connections and have Steam present if we want to play a video game????"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No, but if the aim is to make money - how does this statement coincide with what you just said. What is the physical difference between buying a download compared to buying a suit - in the eyes of the law?

In order to make money, SI have chosen to "force" people to buy their own copy as opposed to 3-4 people buying a single copy and sharing it. This will now become impossible to do. Steam probably wont stop piracy, but it will stop the "sharing" of FM. if not stop then at least drastically reduce it.

I have no idea what suit you are talking about.. are you drunk? :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Let me rephrase:

"So, because of the whole EULA issue we are forced by law to have internet connections and have Steam present if we want to play a video game????"

No not forced by law.. you are forced by technology.. FM will not run without Steam. The police will not arrest you if you dont have a internet connection and have Steam installed.. but you will not be able to run FM :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In respect to licences...

You can't sell a suit and still wear it. You can't download a suit. You can't stick a suit in a machine and have an identical copy a few minutes later. You can't broadcast a suit and you can't pick up a guitar and play a suit or walk down the street whistling a suit. You can't damage or delete a suit, then reinstall it and have it in the same condition as it started. Software is a totally different concept.

The minute you install software, it exists in more than one place - so you have the ability to copy it legally in order to use it. Since you can copy it, the only way to define theft is by limiting where it can be copied. That's all a licence does. If you don't have that limitation, piracy doesn't exist and one copy can be use by anybody that wants it. That means developers make no money, which means no more software - so you've gone from free market to no market.

Very very well said.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Let me rephrase:

"So, because of the whole EULA issue we are forced by law to have internet connections and have Steam present if we want to play a video game????"

No, the law is not forcing you to have an internet connection, the idea is to force people to respect the EULA by making it more difficult to break it. Just because people have been illegally trading in second hand PC games for years does not mean it is ok.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In order to make money, SI have chosen to "force" people to buy their own copy as opposed to 3-4 people buying a single copy and sharing it. This will now become impossible to do. Steam probably wont stop piracy, but it will stop the "sharing" of FM. if not stop then at least drastically reduce it.

I have no idea what suit you are talking about.. are you drunk? :D

What was it exactly that happened to the music industry again? Everything they tried was absolutly in vain, you can still download as much as you like - but you are right, my friend, lets all download Steam anyway...

I talking about the same suit as your pal, playmaker... :thup:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Let me rephrase:

"So, because of the whole EULA issue we are forced by law to have internet connections and have Steam present if we want to play a video game????"

Basically yes, Same as if you buy a TV you have to buy a licence if you want to watch television broadcasts on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No, the law is not forcing you to have an internet connection, the idea is to force people to respect the EULA by making it more difficult to break it. Just because people have been illegally trading in second hand PC games for years does not mean it is ok.

But what does this have to do with us being forced to have internet connections and Steam? Don't you think it's fair to have alternative solutions? You can't pull the law that this is the only way, for gods sake. Why is there no other options within that EULA law that the gamer can chose from?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Basically yes, Same as if you buy a TV you have to buy a licence if you want to watch television broadcasts on it.

Yeah, but when we buy a TV license - we are not all forced to watch SkyB or the Steam Channel, so what's your point?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What was it exactly that happened to the music industry again? Everything they tried was absolutly in vain, you can still download as much as you like - but you are right, my friend, lets all download Steam anyway...

I talking about the same suit as your pal, playmaker... :thup:

But still that doesnt mean download MP3's illegally is ok.. One attempt has been to reduce the price of music such that people now buy subscriptions instead of the music itself.. here in Denmark they have f.ex. WiMP where people pay X amount every month and then they have access to millions of songs. This is a good approach IMO and very similar to what On-Live are trying.

Hopefully Steam will go down this road eventually where we pay an amount every month (or for a certain period only) and then you have access to games. So you never buy the game, you only "lease" it.

Playmaker isnt my pal.. I have no idea who he is :D - at best he is my fellow community member.. just like you :) I just agree more with him than you :p

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But what does this have to do with us being forced to have internet connections and Steam? Don't you think it's fair to have alternative solutions? You can't pull the law that this is the only way, for gods sake. Why is there no other options within that EULA law that the gamer can chose from?

Because SI have decided that it should be like this.. Accept or dont buy FM :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yeah, but when we buy a TV license - we are not all forced to watch SkyB or the Steam Channel, so what's your point?

No.. but when you buy a TV you ARE forced to pay for the license.. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But what does this have to do with us being forced to have internet connections and Steam? Don't you think it's fair to have alternative solutions? You can't pull the law that this is the only way, for gods sake. Why is there no other options within that EULA law that the gamer can chose from?

I don't think your making any sense in all this.

The EULA is part of a law that states you cannot re-sell a PC game after you have installed it on your computer, nothing about having an internet connection. SEGA have decided in order to enforce the EULA, amongst various other things, that you must use Steam to activate and authenticate their product, unfortunately Steam requires an internet connection to activate the first time. There are other options of course, but SEGA have decided this is the way they are going this year. They are following suit of most major game companies who have also tried to enforce the EULA.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree there should be other options available.

However, any company is entitled to do as it sees fit to protect it's long term profitability. Steam is how SI/SEGA have deemed the best method to do this. If you don't like it you don't have to buy the game.

Same as, if you disagree with having to get a TV licence, you can simply not watch TV.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No.. but when you buy a TV you ARE forced to pay for the license.. ;)

My god, what on earth are you talking about? Are you seriously saying that we need a Gamming license to play a video game? Everyone who thinks about playing a video game has to apply/pay for a license so we can chose between all sorts of games? Is that what people are suggesting now?... lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yeah, but when we buy a TV license - we are not all forced to watch SkyB or the Steam Channel, so what's your point?

Think of Steam as the TV license in that situation, you buy a TV and you MUST have a TV license to be lawful, you buy FM you MUST have steam to be lawful, Steam is your license to use the product, only, ullike a TV license, its free.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hi fifa manager, bye football manager

You'll come back crying.. trust me.. :D - Fifa Manager is so bad it actually physically hurts when you play it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hi fifa manager, bye football manager

This is like scooping your eyeballs out with a spoon so you don't have to wear glasses. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My god, what on earth are you talking about? Are you seriously saying that we need a Gamming license to play a video game? Everyone who thinks about playing a video game has to apply for a license so we can chose between all sorts of games? Is that what people are suggesting now?... lol

Do not take this personally, but you are either very young or very old or just not very intelligent?

Who has said anything about gaming licenses? :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To compare TV licenses with playing a video game is just way out there. To watch TV I need a license, fair enough, but to suggest that I need a similar license to play a vidoe game is just stupid. Should I ask SEGA for a gamming license, or what?....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My god, what on earth are you talking about? Are you seriously saying that we need a Gamming license to play a video game? Everyone who thinks about playing a video game has to apply/pay for a license so we can chose between all sorts of games? Is that what people are suggesting now?... lol

I find it rather ironic and amusing that a few days ago you were trying to admonish me for presenting a false interpretation of people's opinions. Oh how the mighty have fallen. You seem to be becoming more and more hysterical, I suggest that you have a break from the computer for an hour or so, then come back refreshed, ready and raring to go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeh you buy a TV license. But them I'm forced (living in Ireland) to buy a separate box to watch Sky Sports, to watch Setanta, to watch many many other channels. The basic channels I get without this is BBC 1 and 2, Channel 4, E4, UTV, RTE1, RTE2, and few other Irish channels.

Then I have to pay another €50 a MONTH to watch sports? A world gone mad!!!

Not only that I then have to PAY EXTRA to watch movies on Sky Movies?!?!

That's awful!!!!

Yeh but I have to pay for an extra box (3rd party software and hardware) to get those channels.

Now what do you think would happen if I start broadcasting Sky Movies on my own little system across the airwaves to anybody with a TV?

I know what would happen. Black helicopters and SUVs would be swooping down on my house in no time.

Simply because I don't have the right to broadcast their channels.

And I don't have the right to view their channels unless I get 3rd party software/hardware and pay for it.

Just as I don't have the right to sell on FM to another party and keep using it myself. So SI have put this restriction in place to hopefully to stop people stealing and "broadcasting" their stuff.

So yeh I'll get Steam. At least it's free.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
To compare TV licenses with playing a video game is just way out there. To watch TV I need a license, fair enough, but to suggest that I need a similar license to play a vidoe game is just stupid. Should I ask SEGA for a gamming license, or what?....

Are you just being obtuse for the sake of it?

This is the way PC games have worked since I can remember. You don't own the software, you own a licence to use it. What is annoying you now all of a sudden? The fact that SI are actually trying to enforce it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
To compare TV licenses with playing a video game is just way out there. To watch TV I need a license, fair enough, but to suggest that I need a similar license to play a vidoe game is just stupid. Should I ask SEGA for a gamming license, or what?....

A TV licence is a requirement to watch television. Steam is a requirement to play Football Manager.

Why is this a particularly difficult concept for you to understand?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
To compare TV licenses with playing a video game is just way out there. To watch TV I need a license, fair enough, but to suggest that I need a similar license to play a vidoe game is just stupid. Should I ask SEGA for a gamming license, or what?....

The concept was compared... not the tv license and video game itself.. :rolleyes: - its an analogy!

Here's another:

Its like when you buy a car.. you have to have a driver's license before you can use the car.

See what I did there? - A car and drivers license isnt the same as a video game and steam isnt the same, but the concept is similar and therefore it can be used as an analogy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
To compare TV licenses with playing a video game is just way out there. To watch TV I need a license, fair enough, but to suggest that I need a similar license to play a vidoe game is just stupid. Should I ask SEGA for a gamming license, or what?....

You do need a license that is the EULA!!!!!!!!!!!! By clicking ok you are agreeing to the terms of the EULA and thus you have a license to play that particular game. You dont need a blanket license to play games, but rather individual ones for each game, is it really that difficult to understand?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Do not take this personally, but you are either very young or very old or just not very intelligent?

Who has said anything about gaming licenses? :rolleyes:

How can I take you calling me 'not very intelligent' personally? It's just fine, call me what you like. It doesn't make me look more degrading then what you have done for yourself. But, I guess Kriss won't mind, you are on the right side of the picket fence so it's all cool... :cool:

P.S. I'm off to lunch...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How can I take you calling me 'not very intelligent' personally? It's just fine, call me what you like. It doesn't make me look more degrading then what you have done for yourself. But, I guess Kriss won't mind, you are on the right side of the picket fence so it's all cool... :cool:

He actually asked if you were, he didn't call you anything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
To compare TV licenses with playing a video game is just way out there. To watch TV I need a license, fair enough, but to suggest that I need a similar license to play a vidoe game is just stupid. Should I ask SEGA for a gamming license, or what?....

ANY software comes with a license to use it. And terms and conditions. By installing the software you have to tick that you agree to these. If you don't agree then don't install and return the software.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_license_agreement

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The fact that SI are actually trying to enforce it?

I think thats the point that is annoying some people, SI up till this point have failed to try and enforce the EULA, now they can in certain situations and people do not like it because they dont know what they agreed to when clicking yes to install. How many people ever read T's and C's when installing software?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You do need a license that is the EULA!!!!!!!!!!!! By clicking ok you are agreeing to the terms of the EULA and thus you have a license to play that particular game. You dont need a blanket license to play games, but rather individual ones for each game, is it really that difficult to understand?

There are over 40 different EULAs for software developers to choose from. Recently at a conference they suggested making a blanket licnese instead of having over 40 different ones. And every lawyer in the room stood up and started yelling lol.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I thought it worth copying this from another thread just to demonstrate that Steam does have benefits, in this case to a huge number of people.

"Already perordered it from STEAM for myself and as a gift to my friend. The only 'fast and painless' option here (Ukraine) - otherwise you have to rely on postal service (couple of weeks delay) or shipment of Russian version to local shops (months of delay).

Thanks SEGA and SI for making the game available for former USSR in STEAM since last year! No need to go to London for a copy:lol:"

Very glad for all the fans in Ukraine (that have an internet connection). I think it's great SI/SEGA can offer them this option. I'd never want to force people in Ukraine to buy the disc version via postal service or any other method. In the same way I'd never want to be forced myself to install steam to play FM. Unfortunately that has just happened.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Very glad for all the fans in Ukraine (that have an internet connection). I think it's great SI/SEGA can offer them this option. I'd never want to force people in Ukraine to buy the disc version via postal service or any other method. In the same way I'd never want to be forced myself to install steam to play FM. Unfortunately that has just happened.

Installing Steam is simple. It's non-obtrusive. And easy to do. Read a bit about Steam, installing and playing games in offline mode.

You might actually like it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There are over 40 different EULAs for software developers to choose from. Recently at a conference they suggested making a blanket licnese instead of having over 40 different ones. And every lawyer in the room stood up and started yelling lol.

I dont think a blanket EULA would work would it? Would the same rules for windows apply to a copy of FM?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hi fifa manager, bye football manager

I assume you'll need to use EA's Origin software with FIFA Manager 12 this year, but I may be wrong. Good luck with that...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
He actually asked if you were, he didn't call you anything.
Do not take this personally, but you are either very young or very old or just not very intelligent?

So, you call this a question? If I ask you "are you idiotic?" please don't take it personally. It is quite sad that when people don't have their way with what they say - they always resort to this kind of ridiculous behavior... :thdn:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's exactly it. There's no way a blanket EULA for all software is a good idea. I guess that's why the lawyers went mad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So, you call this a question? If I ask you "are you idiotic?" please don't take it personally. It is quite sad that when people don't have their way with what they say - they always resort to this kind of ridiculous behavior... :thdn:

It was a question.. hence the questionmark..

Either way the question is still valid as you simply dont understand (or you deliberately choose to twist) what we say.. Should I think you are very intelligent when you seem to not understand the simplest concepts explained in a way such that a child would understand?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So, you call this a question? If I ask you "are you idiotic?" please don't take it personally.

I did not take it personally. Why no, I am not idiotic, my IQ is fairly high and I performed well at school. Yourself?

I don't even know what you're talking about with the second half of your post, it makes very little sense, so I won't bother with a response.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's questions and then there's derogatory questions. We should leave ambiguous questions, rhetorical or not, that imply a derogatory tone to one side and move on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So, you call this a question? If I ask you "are you idiotic?" please don't take it personally. It is quite sad that when people don't have their way with what they say - they always resort to this kind of ridiculous behavior... :thdn:

Why don't you, very simply, write a post outlining your specific grievance about the method of activation for FM this year?

Because I've read all your posts on this page so far and they're a little hard to follow.

I said earlier, Who is your issue with? SI, SEGA, EULA, The Government? I can't figure it out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That's exactly it. There's no way a blanket EULA for all software is a good idea. I guess that's why the lawyers went mad.

Yeah can you imagine trying to settle on a set of rules that would cover every kind of software!! The thing is tho, to the common person they wouldnt read them anyway so they wouldnt know the difference. As this thread has shown, a lot of people were not aware of the laws, that is something that should definitely be looked at by these companies and the government.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It was a question.. hence the questionmark..

Either way the question is still valid as you simply dont understand (or you deliberately choose to twist) what we say.. Should I think you are very intelligent when you seem to not understand the simplest concepts explained in a way such that a child would understand?

So children can see your point that a TV license is the same as being forced to have internet connections and use Steam so you can play a video game by law. Right pal, real show of intelligence there I'll give you that... :thup:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I assume you'll need to use EA's Origin software with FIFA Manager 12 this year, but I may be wrong. Good luck with that...

It most certainly does,

http://store.origin.com/store/eaemea/en_GB/home/ThemeID.850300/ccRef.en_IE

also for loversleaper he is part of the EA EULA, this is standard practise:

A. Grant. EA grants you a personal, limited, non-exclusive license to install and use the Application for your personal, noncommercial use solely as set forth in this License and any accompanying documentation. Your acquired rights are subject to your compliance with this License. Any commercial use is prohibited. You are expressly prohibited from sublicensing, renting, leasing or otherwise distributing the Application or rights to use the Application. The term of your license shall commence on the date that you start to download, install or otherwise use the Application, and shall end on the earlier of the date that you dispose of the Application; or EA's termination of this License.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So children can see your point that a TV license is the same as being forced to have internet connections and use Steam so you can play a video game by law. Right pal, real show of intelligence there I'll give you that... :thup:

Please go back and read my post again.. then compare it to what you just wrote here and see if your interpretation of my post is correct.. I'll bet you missed my point completely.. This is what we intellectuals call a "own goal" or "shooting your own foot" :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.